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Post by Giller on Feb 3, 2020 11:02:03 GMT -5
I personally think that if someone never were told about the pre trib rapture that they still can come to that same conclusion on their own.
But nevertheless, it is a good question to ask, how much of what we believe today is just simply influenced by what we heard taught, and how much of it would we believe if we studied the bible and never heard of this or that?
Very good question.
And by the way, I love your your post in how you started this thread, Dezi.
And yes we must be like Bereans, checking all things out with the scrips.
Never put 100% trust in any man, but in saying that that does not mean that God has not given us good teachers, pastors, and so on, and that we cannot learn from them, for we can, and they were given for the perfecting of the saints.
But just be careful who you listen to, and most importantly learn the scrips.
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777
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Post by 777 on Feb 3, 2020 11:14:44 GMT -5
I personally think that if someone never were told about the pre trib rapture that they still can come to that same conclusion on their own. I do too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 12:15:23 GMT -5
A friend of mine posted this on facebook today and then I reposted.... I want to share it here because it is so good! Doctrine is your anchor to the truth. Doctrine (from Latin: doctrina, meaning "teaching", "instruction" or "doctrine") is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the essence of teachings in a given branch of knowledge or in a belief system. 2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: We must be very careful as to what we are being taught.What we believe will effect every aspect of our life. When we listen to the wrong voices,we are allowing that persons beliefs to be transferred into our minds. Satan is very crafty and cunning,he knows that he must mix truth with error so the person will not realize they are being deceived wth false doctrines. The word of God is being tampered with. Satan wants to fill our minds with wrong doctrine and a belief system that is man focused,instead God focused. The only source of truth is The Holy Bible, so it makes sense that would be the target 🎯 for the enemy to creep in to pervert Gods word. The Bible has a lot to say about sound doctrine,today the enemy has sat out to spread the lie that doctrine is not important and that those that stick to sound doctrine or being legalistic,judge-mental or trying to separate the body of Christ. 2 Timothy 4:3 KJV For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; Ephesians 4:14(KJV) 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive. Hebrews 13:9 - Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For [it is] a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. If our doctrine is based soundly upon Scripture, we can know we are walking in the path God designed for us. However, if we do not study the Word of God for ourselves (2 Timothy 2:15), we are led more easily into error. Although there are a variety of minor issues upon which Christians disagree, true doctrine is clearer than many imply. Second Peter 1:20 says that “no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation.” There is a right interpretation of everything God says, and it is our job to discern that meaning, not create an interpretation to suit our tastes. God wants us to know His heart and has given us His Word upon which we can build godly lives (see Matthew 7:24). The more we study true doctrine, the more we can stand on truth and not be lead astray but false teachers and doctrine of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1 King James Version (KJV) 4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Be like the bereans,See if what you are being taught Lines up with the scriptures. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you any deception or snare you are being lead into. Pray for discernment and ask God for wisdom and the Spirit of God will guide you into all truth James 1:5 KJV 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Dezi, thank you for posting this....I just want to take it as an opportunity to make these general comments that are for everyone... about the danger of codifying doctrines.....not just on paper but we need to beware of codifying doctrines in our minds. Error often begins in the carnal mind. We must always remember that we are to walk in the SPIRIT and be led by the SPIRIT.....serve in the new way of the SPIRIT, not a letter that kills....and have the mind of Christ. Bless you.
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Doctrine
Feb 3, 2020 12:22:13 GMT -5
via mobile
John likes this
Post by solid on Feb 3, 2020 12:22:13 GMT -5
A friend of mine posted this on facebook today and then I reposted.... I want to share it here because it is so good! Doctrine is your anchor to the truth. Doctrine (from Latin: doctrina, meaning "teaching", "instruction" or "doctrine") is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the essence of teachings in a given branch of knowledge or in a belief system. 2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: We must be very careful as to what we are being taught.What we believe will effect every aspect of our life. When we listen to the wrong voices,we are allowing that persons beliefs to be transferred into our minds. Satan is very crafty and cunning,he knows that he must mix truth with error so the person will not realize they are being deceived wth false doctrines. The word of God is being tampered with. Satan wants to fill our minds with wrong doctrine and a belief system that is man focused,instead God focused. The only source of truth is The Holy Bible, so it makes sense that would be the target 🎯 for the enemy to creep in to pervert Gods word. The Bible has a lot to say about sound doctrine,today the enemy has sat out to spread the lie that doctrine is not important and that those that stick to sound doctrine or being legalistic,judge-mental or trying to separate the body of Christ. 2 Timothy 4:3 KJV For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; Ephesians 4:14(KJV) 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive. Hebrews 13:9 - Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For [it is] a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. If our doctrine is based soundly upon Scripture, we can know we are walking in the path God designed for us. However, if we do not study the Word of God for ourselves (2 Timothy 2:15), we are led more easily into error. Although there are a variety of minor issues upon which Christians disagree, true doctrine is clearer than many imply. Second Peter 1:20 says that “no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation.” There is a right interpretation of everything God says, and it is our job to discern that meaning, not create an interpretation to suit our tastes. God wants us to know His heart and has given us His Word upon which we can build godly lives (see Matthew 7:24). The more we study true doctrine, the more we can stand on truth and not be lead astray but false teachers and doctrine of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1 King James Version (KJV) 4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Be like the bereans,See if what you are being taught Lines up with the scriptures. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you any deception or snare you are being lead into. Pray for discernment and ask God for wisdom and the Spirit of God will guide you into all truth James 1:5 KJV 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Dezi, thank you for posting this....I just want to take it as an opportunity to make these general comments that are for everyone... about the danger of codifying doctrines.....not just on paper but we need to beware of codifying doctrines in our minds. Error often begins in the carnal mind. We must always remember that we are to walk in the SPIRIT and be led by the SPIRIT.....serve in the new way of the SPIRIT, not a letter that kills....and have the mind of Christ. Bless you. Question. If we go around disregarding the letter, why do we need a Bible? Those letters will kill us. Also, how do you know it is the Spirit leading you if you don't have the letter to compare it to?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 13:39:41 GMT -5
Dezi, thank you for posting this....I just want to take it as an opportunity to make these general comments that are for everyone... about the danger of codifying doctrines.....not just on paper but we need to beware of codifying doctrines in our minds. Error often begins in the carnal mind. We must always remember that we are to walk in the SPIRIT and be led by the SPIRIT.....serve in the new way of the SPIRIT, not a letter that kills....and have the mind of Christ. Bless you. Question. If we go around disregarding the letter, why do we need a Bible? Those letters will kill us. Also, how do you know it is the Spirit leading you if you don't have the letter to compare it to? 2Co 3:5-6
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,
who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Nobody can really give us the understanding that we need, but we need to ask God for it because it comes from Him.
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Post by Giller on Feb 3, 2020 14:47:41 GMT -5
Let us not ignore any part of the word.
The bible says this:
Act 17:10-11 (10) And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. (11) These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
We ought to be like the Bereans, searching the scrips to see what a person is saying or preaching etc.
And also the bible says this:
1Jn 2:27 (27) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Of course the Holy Ghost is our teacher, yet the Holy Ghost also uses men to teach, for the bible says also this:
Eph 4:11-12 (11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; (12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Let us embrace the whole word, not abasing any part of it.
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777
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Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Feb 3, 2020 15:07:15 GMT -5
Let us not ignore any part of the word. The bible says this: Act 17:10-11 (10) And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. (11) These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. We ought to be like the Bereans, searching the scrips to see what a person is saying or preaching etc. And also the bible says this: 1Jn 2:27 (27) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. Of course the Holy Ghost is our teacher, yet the Holy Ghost also uses men to teach, for the bible says also this: Eph 4:11-12 (11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; (12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Let us embrace the whole word, not abasing any part of it. Amen. The Spirit does give us the understanding, but if what we are hearing opposes scripture, we are being led of the flesh.
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Doctrine
Feb 3, 2020 16:16:02 GMT -5
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Post by solid on Feb 3, 2020 16:16:02 GMT -5
Question. If we go around disregarding the letter, why do we need a Bible? Those letters will kill us. Also, how do you know it is the Spirit leading you if you don't have the letter to compare it to? 2Co 3:5-6
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,
who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Nobody can really give us the understanding that we need, but we need to ask God for it because it comes from Him. That really didn't answer my question.
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Post by joseph on Feb 4, 2020 9:07:54 GMT -5
Along the same lines, if a person with no knowledge of Christianity were to be presented with a KJV Bible and nobody to explain what any of it meant, how different would their picture of Christians be compared to believers we see today? Just look around at the way we live? It doesn't even come close to resembling the picture of Christianity I get when I read the New Testament. Christians are swearing all the time, fornicating, their household is out of order, unqualified people are running churches. It is amazing when you think about it. This thread has really got me thinking about things! There was a recounting years ago, of an island.
From a wrecked ship, with no survivors (I think), the inhabitants of the island recovered among other things a Bible.
Decades later, another ship 'happened' upon the island, and were astonished what they found.
I don't remember if the account was , as it indeed may be, a true account, or a made up story, which also it could be.
There's a bit more, but I'm going to search online for that account, to see if I can find it again , first.....
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Post by joseph on Feb 4, 2020 9:08:49 GMT -5
I personally think that if someone never were told about the pre trib rapture that they still can come to that same conclusion on their own. I do too. There is evidence to the contrary.
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777
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Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Feb 4, 2020 9:11:23 GMT -5
Along the same lines, if a person with no knowledge of Christianity were to be presented with a KJV Bible and nobody to explain what any of it meant, how different would their picture of Christians be compared to believers we see today? Just look around at the way we live? It doesn't even come close to resembling the picture of Christianity I get when I read the New Testament. Christians are swearing all the time, fornicating, their household is out of order, unqualified people are running churches. It is amazing when you think about it. This thread has really got me thinking about things! There was a recounting years ago, of an island.
From a wrecked ship, with no survivors (I think), the inhabitants of the island recovered among other things a Bible.
Decades later, another ship 'happened' upon the island, and were astonished what they found.
I don't remember if the account was , as it indeed may be, a true account, or a made up story, which also it could be.
There's a bit more, but I'm going to search online for that account, to see if I can find it again , first.....
If you can find it, I would like to know more about how it effected the people.
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777
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Post by 777 on Feb 4, 2020 9:12:51 GMT -5
There is evidence to the contrary. What evidence?
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Post by joseph on Feb 4, 2020 9:30:52 GMT -5
There is evidence to the contrary. What evidence?I read the Scripture, without anyone except the Father and the Son to call upon, asking them in prayer continually to reveal the truth to me, if they were willing, if it is the Father's Good Pleasure as Jesus says Himself, thru and thru the entire Bible, day after day, night after night, for years....
Oh, yes, still always going to fellowships : member in a church, bible studies or prayer groups also , perhaps up to ten times a week, sometimes three times, lots of fellowship with other believers, and a member with them, always talking with and about Jesus, and about our Father in heaven.... simple fellowships - not like a Bible college type or whatever, not as if "deep"....
Not trusting the flesh, not confident in the flesh, ever --- totally distraught with 'religion' of family and the usa/ Protestant and Catholic churches and others - not knowing who was true in teachings, and
seeing
in all Scripture that we are told to trust our Heavenly Father, always, for all things, including all teaching(s)/ for wisdom, for truth, for understanding which is granted by Him, as Jesus says.....
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Post by Giller on Feb 4, 2020 10:22:53 GMT -5
I personally think that if someone never were told about the pre trib rapture that they still can come to that same conclusion on their own. I do too. There is a t least 4 or 5 verses that can just by reading them, make you lean towards a pre trib rapture, without any input of any man. It shows an escape, it shows a type of wrath that we are not to go through, and standing before the son of man, and that particular coming.
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Post by Giller on Feb 4, 2020 10:36:59 GMT -5
Although I do thank God that if you are post, mid or pre trib that at least you believe that the rapture will take place.
There are some who do not believe in a rapture of the church which is also called the resurrection.
But it makes me think of this, in Christ's time many were looking for Christ to come as a reigning king on this earth, yet many failed to see the prophecy of the suffering servant, how Christ was to first come to suffer for us, on the cross of course.
They failed to see his first coming as a man, yet still being God.
They failed to see the prophecies of his first coming.
Well even today, there is a doctrine being pushed of bringing down the coming, to earth, the kingdom now doctrine.
And there are many who are looking towards the second coming of Christ, but how many are truly looking for the rapture of the church, because the doctrine of the rapture, bit by bit, is gradually dwindling.
Many missed his first coming, how many will miss the rapture?
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