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Post by frienduff on Feb 13, 2020 10:41:40 GMT -5
here is how i do with preachers/teachers. if the message is false, dont listen. for the rest treat what they say like fish. eat all you can throw the rest back. the reason i say this is because there are some preachers who have really edified me to the point of their words have even shaped my faith and i grew from it... but after listening to a whole bunch of their sermons there may be one or two points i am fully in disagreement with. I think if we narrow the scope to just those here on this forum there have been discussions in threads where we were not all in agreement on some stuff. sure maybe part of it can be discussed and hashed out... but its ok. I think its of the flesh to have the attitude of this is the revelation and the truth... and you should believe this also, so help you God. however there are some topics thats just not up for debate. I do not put my confidence in a man... I put my confidence in when a man speaks and my Spirit in me tells me its not really the man speaking and i can take the message to scripture and verify it. The Spirit and scripture will ALWAYS agree. I think there is a lot of wisdom in that Cletus. I was listening to a teacher today, because someone asked me to. I have heard some of his stuff before, but I am not an avid follower or anything. But he said some things that I hadn't considered in the past about the story of the tower of Babel. I didn't necessarily agree with everything the guy was saying, but he did say things that made sense that were not at odds with scripture.
I always give Myles Munroe a lot of credit for shaping my views, all because of one message on being an Ambassador for Christ. I never recommend him to others, because even though I read one of his books and liked it, and loved that one message, later on, I ordered a set of teaching cds he had on the Kingdom of God and some of those things were off the wall. They started out good, for the most part. Probably 90 percent right in the first cds, but by the time I got to the later ones, they were completely in error. The fact he is wrong in many of his teachings will never take away from the influence he had on how I view the Bible, and I am thankful I came across his ministry.
When we look at it from this point of view, if I am taking you right, you are open to listening to different, but imperfect preachers, but you don't put all your faith and trust that everything they say is right. You don't follow anyone blindly. You accept what is in agreement with scripture, and you reject what is not? I think that is smart. Of course, if the preacher is more wrong than right, a person that is a known heretic, there is no reason to listen to them at all, but if they are mostly right, you might be cheating yourself out of good insight if you insist on them being absolutely perfect.
Here is some friendly advice . Don't give that man any credit . God alone was who allowed you to see truth and when we notice someone is way off , YEP GOD ALLOWED US TO SEE THAT TOO . I would not give myles munroe credit for a thing . Sometimes folks forget things or were taught a wrong mindset . But the moment I discern one as false and teaches dangerous things , I flee and never look back and wont even mention their name as having helped me to see a thing . I see false ones as that dangerous . and no false man is gonna spout lies all the time . they always have truths , they always have truths . Even pope francis can tell truths . There were men whose names I wont even make mention of that may have known some meats , yet they were false and they are fled never to be pointed to , never to be given any credit too for anything . My approach is this , if a man is false and hangs and supports false ones , We better FLEE and never look back .
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Post by frienduff on Feb 13, 2020 10:58:51 GMT -5
here is how i do with preachers/teachers. if the message is false, dont listen. for the rest treat what they say like fish. eat all you can throw the rest back. the reason i say this is because there are some preachers who have really edified me to the point of their words have even shaped my faith and i grew from it... but after listening to a whole bunch of their sermons there may be one or two points i am fully in disagreement with. I think if we narrow the scope to just those here on this forum there have been discussions in threads where we were not all in agreement on some stuff. sure maybe part of it can be discussed and hashed out... but its ok. I think its of the flesh to have the attitude of this is the revelation and the truth... and you should believe this also, so help you God. however there are some topics thats just not up for debate. I do not put my confidence in a man... I put my confidence in when a man speaks and my Spirit in me tells me its not really the man speaking and i can take the message to scripture and verify it. The Spirit and scripture will ALWAYS agree. Be encouraged by this Cletus . here is how I do with preachers and teachers that are false . DONT LISTEN , as for the rest of what they say , Well I don't know what they say , I DONE FLED THEM and don't look back . Let me give this false one as an example and let this sink in . WE all know pope francis is false , so are we gonna sit and listen to anything that man gotta teach . THE same APPLIES to any who are false . do the same thing . FLEE and never look back .
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777
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Post by 777 on Feb 13, 2020 11:15:04 GMT -5
frienduff, I think you are right. False teachers usually do mix in some truth and quote scripture. If they are false, they are false and should be avoided.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 12:09:33 GMT -5
Jesus was the only man that walked the earth whose doctrine was perfect, and the only sure Word is what is found in the Holy Bible. We are all flawed, even when we do our best. If you put anyone under the microscope, you will find something not quite right. All we can do is study to show ourselves approved and seek assistance from the Holy Spirit to understand what we are reading in the Bible.
Yes that is true . but no seasoned leader TEACHES straight up false hoods all the time and hangs out with those who do so . And let us say a leader does have an error . Bet they repent as fast as peter and barnabas did when paul rebuked them . SO why don't most today . Ponder that one . I watched the worst vidoe ever , so dead and boring , but I watched it , had too . And I watched a man exalt Kenneth copleland for over ten minutes straight in one is his teachings . He went on and on about the man , about his eyes , about the power he has . Even if Kenneth had been a true man of GOD , I would have rebuked this man for the way he flat out idolizes that man . BUT even worse , Kenneth is one of the worst ones in the protestant camp . And this man , his lover in arms TODD WHITE , just mesmorized a crowd about the man as though Kenneth was GOD himself . I KID you not . I nearly died the first six mins in and had to stop it . Then another said , to continue watching , so I did . it got so bad I had to cut it off around the sixteen minute mark But again one reminded me , no finish watching it , MY GOODNESS it got only worse . I nearly fell ill for the sake of narrow way , having to force my self to watch that vidoe . AND I am begging and pleading alll of us , DONT even PEEK in the direction of todd white . Butero , he is far slicker than even Kenneth , the man KNOWS how to spin like a silver spider the most craftily spun web . And most cant discern this at the level they ought too . SO its good enough for me , if we simply stay far away from that man . The only good thing I can say , is that I don't see anyone here that even supports that man . But I warn and reminded us , because I see how crafity that man is . he can spin as well as francis does , YET harder to detect him , because he goes under the evangelical title and francis goes under the catholic one . Todd is slicker than Kenneth only in this one way , HE was wise enough not to tell his group as did kenneht that francis is his hero . TODD sits over a group that was not as far tainted as the group Kenneth sat over , But todd is every bit as dangerous and more so , cause he spins like one I have never seen spin before . The main difference I see between Kenneth and todd , IS NOT THIER IDEOLOGY , NO THEY BELEIVE THE SAME , its their approach on how to get the job done . Kenneth is more straight forward and more theologically sounding ,though its dead theology , while TODD is more of an emotion tapper and big time spinner , not nearly as theological SOUNDING as Kenneth , OH but no less dangerous than Kenneth HE IS . I think there's a difference between serving up a completely false gospel and just occasional or small errors....I mean just look at that Book, how big and deep, and what mortal man could never have any mistakes or misunderstandings concerning it.... it's just that if some of those errors never get sorted out they can potentially morph into something worse, or if the person is on a pedestal like you are mentioning then they will eventually just because of the nature of the flesh go off into a false gospel or just never grow as they should. But even so, the thing is that to the best of the understanding that I have, the whole church system is tainted as a whole and going under judgment now as a result.....the whole package of it....so we really should not peek in the direction of any of the church as we knew it any more. When the foundation is broken there's nothing that the righteous can do for it......don't go looking or expecting to find His glory/presence there any more, overall. We need to wait on the Lord in the 'wilderness' for His will. He will lead each one individually if they have ears to hear His voice and are obedient. The Lord's clear instruction to me over these years has been and still is to NOT LOOK BACK like Lot's wife, but to FORGET WHAT LIES BEHIND and press on to what lies AHEAD, otherwise we could get caught in this judgment. We are at the end of the church age now, not the beginning of it.....so if we are following Him into the wilderness we need to be seeking the Lord to get an idea of what lies ahead (as well as that it means to be growing further in Him). This is another scripture passage that He gave for this time as well: Isa 43:16-20
Thus saith the LORD, which maketh a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters;
Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise: they are extinct, they are quenched as tow.
(Red Sea crossing…..so fleeing out of “Egypt”- church - avoiding her judgment, the angel of death which kills the firstborn - Christ in them -….…..and heading for the wilderness and the promised land, trusting the Lord to “feed” them and give them water to drink, keeping them alive, no longer depending on “Egypt” – church - for their spiritual life) Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.
Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 12:12:16 GMT -5
I think there is a lot of wisdom in that Cletus. I was listening to a teacher today, because someone asked me to. I have heard some of his stuff before, but I am not an avid follower or anything. But he said some things that I hadn't considered in the past about the story of the tower of Babel. I didn't necessarily agree with everything the guy was saying, but he did say things that made sense that were not at odds with scripture.
I always give Myles Munroe a lot of credit for shaping my views, all because of one message on being an Ambassador for Christ. I never recommend him to others, because even though I read one of his books and liked it, and loved that one message, later on, I ordered a set of teaching cds he had on the Kingdom of God and some of those things were off the wall. They started out good, for the most part. Probably 90 percent right in the first cds, but by the time I got to the later ones, they were completely in error. The fact he is wrong in many of his teachings will never take away from the influence he had on how I view the Bible, and I am thankful I came across his ministry.
When we look at it from this point of view, if I am taking you right, you are open to listening to different, but imperfect preachers, but you don't put all your faith and trust that everything they say is right. You don't follow anyone blindly. You accept what is in agreement with scripture, and you reject what is not? I think that is smart. Of course, if the preacher is more wrong than right, a person that is a known heretic, there is no reason to listen to them at all, but if they are mostly right, you might be cheating yourself out of good insight if you insist on them being absolutely perfect.
Here is some friendly advice . Don't give that man any credit . God alone was who allowed you to see truth and when we notice someone is way off , YEP GOD ALLOWED US TO SEE THAT TOO . I would not give myles munroe credit for a thing . Sometimes folks forget things or were taught a wrong mindset . But the moment I discern one as false and teaches dangerous things , I flee and never look back and wont even mention their name as having helped me to see a thing . I see false ones as that dangerous . and no false man is gonna spout lies all the time . they always have truths , they always have truths . Even pope francis can tell truths . There were men whose names I wont even make mention of that may have known some meats , yet they were false and they are fled never to be pointed to , never to be given any credit too for anything . My approach is this , if a man is false and hangs and supports false ones , We better FLEE and never look back . Many start out well in the beginning, but eventually because of tasting success they get tempted and start to sell out and get deceived, and I would guess that is what happened to poor Mr Munroe, as happens with so many of them.
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777
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Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Feb 13, 2020 12:29:41 GMT -5
Jesus was the only man that walked the earth whose doctrine was perfect, and the only sure Word is what is found in the Holy Bible. We are all flawed, even when we do our best. If you put anyone under the microscope, you will find something not quite right. All we can do is study to show ourselves approved and seek assistance from the Holy Spirit to understand what we are reading in the Bible.
Yes that is true . but no seasoned leader TEACHES straight up false hoods all the time and hangs out with those who do so . And let us say a leader does have an error . Bet they repent as fast as peter and barnabas did when paul rebuked them . SO why don't most today . Ponder that one . I watched the worst vidoe ever , so dead and boring , but I watched it , had too . And I watched a man exalt Kenneth copleland for over ten minutes straight in one is his teachings . He went on and on about the man , about his eyes , about the power he has . Even if Kenneth had been a true man of GOD , I would have rebuked this man for the way he flat out idolizes that man . BUT even worse , Kenneth is one of the worst ones in the protestant camp . And this man , his lover in arms TODD WHITE , just mesmorized a crowd about the man as though Kenneth was GOD himself . I KID you not . I nearly died the first six mins in and had to stop it . Then another said , to continue watching , so I did . it got so bad I had to cut it off around the sixteen minute mark But again one reminded me , no finish watching it , MY GOODNESS it got only worse . I nearly fell ill for the sake of narrow way , having to force my self to watch that vidoe . AND I am begging and pleading alll of us , DONT even PEEK in the direction of todd white . Butero , he is far slicker than even Kenneth , the man KNOWS how to spin like a silver spider the most craftily spun web . And most cant discern this at the level they ought too . SO its good enough for me , if we simply stay far away from that man . The only good thing I can say , is that I don't see anyone here that even supports that man . But I warn and reminded us , because I see how crafity that man is . he can spin as well as francis does , YET harder to detect him , because he goes under the evangelical title and francis goes under the catholic one . Todd is slicker than Kenneth only in this one way , HE was wise enough not to tell his group as did kenneht that francis is his hero . TODD sits over a group that was not as far tainted as the group Kenneth sat over , But todd is every bit as dangerous and more so , cause he spins like one I have never seen spin before . The main difference I see between Kenneth and todd , IS NOT THIER IDEOLOGY , NO THEY BELEIVE THE SAME , its their approach on how to get the job done . Kenneth is more straight forward and more theologically sounding ,though its dead theology , while TODD is more of an emotion tapper and big time spinner , not nearly as theological SOUNDING as Kenneth , OH but no less dangerous than Kenneth HE IS . You said something that got me thinking. When Peter got off, he had Paul to get him back on the right path. Who corrected Todd White?
After seeing his associations, and looking at the videos in the thread about him, and looking at the message John said was off, I will not follow him. We need to avoid anyone not in the truth, but I doubt anyone really made a serious attempt to correct him.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 13, 2020 16:39:47 GMT -5
Yes that is true . but no seasoned leader TEACHES straight up false hoods all the time and hangs out with those who do so . And let us say a leader does have an error . Bet they repent as fast as peter and barnabas did when paul rebuked them . SO why don't most today . Ponder that one . I watched the worst vidoe ever , so dead and boring , but I watched it , had too . And I watched a man exalt Kenneth copleland for over ten minutes straight in one is his teachings . He went on and on about the man , about his eyes , about the power he has . Even if Kenneth had been a true man of GOD , I would have rebuked this man for the way he flat out idolizes that man . BUT even worse , Kenneth is one of the worst ones in the protestant camp . And this man , his lover in arms TODD WHITE , just mesmorized a crowd about the man as though Kenneth was GOD himself . I KID you not . I nearly died the first six mins in and had to stop it . Then another said , to continue watching , so I did . it got so bad I had to cut it off around the sixteen minute mark But again one reminded me , no finish watching it , MY GOODNESS it got only worse . I nearly fell ill for the sake of narrow way , having to force my self to watch that vidoe . AND I am begging and pleading alll of us , DONT even PEEK in the direction of todd white . Butero , he is far slicker than even Kenneth , the man KNOWS how to spin like a silver spider the most craftily spun web . And most cant discern this at the level they ought too . SO its good enough for me , if we simply stay far away from that man . The only good thing I can say , is that I don't see anyone here that even supports that man . But I warn and reminded us , because I see how crafity that man is . he can spin as well as francis does , YET harder to detect him , because he goes under the evangelical title and francis goes under the catholic one . Todd is slicker than Kenneth only in this one way , HE was wise enough not to tell his group as did kenneht that francis is his hero . TODD sits over a group that was not as far tainted as the group Kenneth sat over , But todd is every bit as dangerous and more so , cause he spins like one I have never seen spin before . The main difference I see between Kenneth and todd , IS NOT THIER IDEOLOGY , NO THEY BELEIVE THE SAME , its their approach on how to get the job done . Kenneth is more straight forward and more theologically sounding ,though its dead theology , while TODD is more of an emotion tapper and big time spinner , not nearly as theological SOUNDING as Kenneth , OH but no less dangerous than Kenneth HE IS . You said something that got me thinking. When Peter got off, he had Paul to get him back on the right path. Who corrected Todd White?
After seeing his associations, and looking at the videos in the thread about him, and looking at the message John said was off, I will not follow him. We need to avoid anyone not in the truth, but I doubt anyone really made a serious attempt to correct him. Brother , the lambs gotta look out for the lambs . And my message is very simple . NO where in the bible did paul say if men teach contrary and hang out with false ones who do , We should even continue to listen . FACT IS he said FLEE THEM . we better . due to how slick todd is and others too , THIS IS HOW folks will end up in time being deceived . WE FLEE that which is false . And the charasmetic move , nar , emergent , a list so long , are infected huge . THE HOLY SPIRIT is our guide , but most have quenched it . GOD would never lead us to align with the false , SO WHY ON EARTH do folks make excuse for their pet teachers WHO DO THAT . The fact is many are loving men above GOD . Sad fact . I see it all the time , even when they know one they like is either teaching false things and or hanging out with the false , THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO LET them GO, and make excuse . Look all I am doing is trying to help all . WE KNOW the tree by its fruits , and who they hang out with and support , SHOWS where there heart is . We need to be made wise IN JESUS . and red flags not only include what is taught , but who they associate with and praise too . WOULD the HOLY GHOST have you praise KENNETH COPELAND NO WAY . SO WHY DOES TODD . and Kenneth is not the only man Todd praises , LOOK at who he is personally teaching at his school . ITS all bad news . And every time I warn us to watch out for who they hang around , cAUSE that IS A MEGA SIGN , it just keeps getting down played . LEADERS are supposed TO LOOK OUT for the flocks concern , not walk them or allow them to associate with such dangers . WE MUST triple down , because now its getting so delusional and its about to get worse . YOU MARK those words my friends , before too long , folks like me will be accused of gossip and slander and not having love , JUST because I WARN AGAINST false leaders . TODD and others are already HUGE on getting this pumped into the mindsets of all .
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Post by frienduff on Feb 13, 2020 16:44:48 GMT -5
Yes that is true . but no seasoned leader TEACHES straight up false hoods all the time and hangs out with those who do so . And let us say a leader does have an error . Bet they repent as fast as peter and barnabas did when paul rebuked them . SO why don't most today . Ponder that one . I watched the worst vidoe ever , so dead and boring , but I watched it , had too . And I watched a man exalt Kenneth copleland for over ten minutes straight in one is his teachings . He went on and on about the man , about his eyes , about the power he has . Even if Kenneth had been a true man of GOD , I would have rebuked this man for the way he flat out idolizes that man . BUT even worse , Kenneth is one of the worst ones in the protestant camp . And this man , his lover in arms TODD WHITE , just mesmorized a crowd about the man as though Kenneth was GOD himself . I KID you not . I nearly died the first six mins in and had to stop it . Then another said , to continue watching , so I did . it got so bad I had to cut it off around the sixteen minute mark But again one reminded me , no finish watching it , MY GOODNESS it got only worse . I nearly fell ill for the sake of narrow way , having to force my self to watch that vidoe . AND I am begging and pleading alll of us , DONT even PEEK in the direction of todd white . Butero , he is far slicker than even Kenneth , the man KNOWS how to spin like a silver spider the most craftily spun web . And most cant discern this at the level they ought too . SO its good enough for me , if we simply stay far away from that man . The only good thing I can say , is that I don't see anyone here that even supports that man . But I warn and reminded us , because I see how crafity that man is . he can spin as well as francis does , YET harder to detect him , because he goes under the evangelical title and francis goes under the catholic one . Todd is slicker than Kenneth only in this one way , HE was wise enough not to tell his group as did kenneht that francis is his hero . TODD sits over a group that was not as far tainted as the group Kenneth sat over , But todd is every bit as dangerous and more so , cause he spins like one I have never seen spin before . The main difference I see between Kenneth and todd , IS NOT THIER IDEOLOGY , NO THEY BELEIVE THE SAME , its their approach on how to get the job done . Kenneth is more straight forward and more theologically sounding ,though its dead theology , while TODD is more of an emotion tapper and big time spinner , not nearly as theological SOUNDING as Kenneth , OH but no less dangerous than Kenneth HE IS . I think there's a difference between serving up a completely false gospel and just occasional or small errors....I mean just look at that Book, how big and deep, and what mortal man could never have any mistakes or misunderstandings concerning it.... it's just that if some of those errors never get sorted out they can potentially morph into something worse, or if the person is on a pedestal like you are mentioning then they will eventually just because of the nature of the flesh go off into a false gospel or just never grow as they should. But even so, the thing is that to the best of the understanding that I have, the whole church system is tainted as a whole and going under judgment now as a result.....the whole package of it....so we really should not peek in the direction of any of the church as we knew it any more. When the foundation is broken there's nothing that the righteous can do for it......don't go looking or expecting to find His glory/presence there any more, overall. We need to wait on the Lord in the 'wilderness' for His will. He will lead each one individually if they have ears to hear His voice and are obedient. The Lord's clear instruction to me over these years has been and still is to NOT LOOK BACK like Lot's wife, but to FORGET WHAT LIES BEHIND and press on to what lies AHEAD, otherwise we could get caught in this judgment. We are at the end of the church age now, not the beginning of it.....so if we are following Him into the wilderness we need to be seeking the Lord to get an idea of what lies ahead (as well as that it means to be growing further in Him). This is another scripture passage that He gave for this time as well: Isa 43:16-20
Thus saith the LORD, which maketh a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters;
Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise: they are extinct, they are quenched as tow.
(Red Sea crossing…..so fleeing out of “Egypt”- church - avoiding her judgment, the angel of death which kills the firstborn - Christ in them -….…..and heading for the wilderness and the promised land, trusting the Lord to “feed” them and give them water to drink, keeping them alive, no longer depending on “Egypt” – church - for their spiritual life) Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.
Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.
Bank on this , I DONT ACCUSE ANYONE OF BEING FALSE , TILL I KNOW KNOW KNOW they are . IF things like mid , pre or post trib or other things made me label men as false GOOD night I would have fled even here . BUT TODD IS A DEMON FILLED MAN . HE IS TOTALLY and COMPTELEY false . and many , sister , many , so many leaders are TOTALLY BIG TIME DANGEROUS FALSE WOLVES . only most got no idea .
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Post by frienduff on Feb 13, 2020 16:53:37 GMT -5
yeah , ponder that folks . I don't nick pick . If I thought one error made a man false , THEN WHY would I be here with folks who don't see EYE to EYE with me on certain issues . Exactly . But todd is a highly dangerous wolf and so are quite a few other names I seen . The problem is , some even here , listened to and grew up under a messed up mindset taught them by FAILING leaders . See the leaders were messing things up and brought the church up with a mindset that No one is perfect . Only half true . THE DOCTRINE of any leader and what he teaches , NEEDS TO BE PEREFECT DOCTRINE . I know folks mess up from time to time . BUT THE DOCTRINE has to be perfect . OUR GOD given , BIBLE instructed pattern OF WHO A LEADER is , was given us in the bible . And the leaders must be tested always and must be as paul wrote they should be . ONLY TODAY , due to church mindsets , its become , no body is perfect etc . I promise paul , peter , jude , James and the others were nothing like these baffoons I see today . It is true peter messed up , and that can happen , BUT LOOK how fast GOD WAS IN CONTROL and GOT PETER corrected . PETER did not sit in that error , VERY LONG AT ALL , before GOD SENT a man named paul to rebuke and correct . YET these devils sit in sin and error for years and wont repent and yet , sadly they and others before them , TRAINED the church well , for FAILURE . FOR FAILURE . NO , if leaders wont be corrected asap , FLEE THEM . in fact paul even said if foks would not heed his epistle , to note that man and have no company , in hopes they repent . BUT ALL I SEE is folks trying to glean what they can , FROM EVEN MEGA FALSE , or those who hang around mega false . I am trying to help the people , but I cant keep having my legs cut out from under me when I warn , that we NEED to observe WHO they hang around and support As well as what they teach . I cant keep having leaders cut this dire warning off and down play it . ITS dangerous . its dangerous . I am only doing as I am LED . We have got to watch out more than ever . we must .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 17:39:02 GMT -5
I think there's a difference between serving up a completely false gospel and just occasional or small errors....I mean just look at that Book, how big and deep, and what mortal man could never have any mistakes or misunderstandings concerning it.... it's just that if some of those errors never get sorted out they can potentially morph into something worse, or if the person is on a pedestal like you are mentioning then they will eventually just because of the nature of the flesh go off into a false gospel or just never grow as they should. But even so, the thing is that to the best of the understanding that I have, the whole church system is tainted as a whole and going under judgment now as a result.....the whole package of it....so we really should not peek in the direction of any of the church as we knew it any more. When the foundation is broken there's nothing that the righteous can do for it......don't go looking or expecting to find His glory/presence there any more, overall. We need to wait on the Lord in the 'wilderness' for His will. He will lead each one individually if they have ears to hear His voice and are obedient. The Lord's clear instruction to me over these years has been and still is to NOT LOOK BACK like Lot's wife, but to FORGET WHAT LIES BEHIND and press on to what lies AHEAD, otherwise we could get caught in this judgment. We are at the end of the church age now, not the beginning of it.....so if we are following Him into the wilderness we need to be seeking the Lord to get an idea of what lies ahead (as well as that it means to be growing further in Him). This is another scripture passage that He gave for this time as well: Isa 43:16-20
Thus saith the LORD, which maketh a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters;
Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise: they are extinct, they are quenched as tow.
(Red Sea crossing…..so fleeing out of “Egypt”- church - avoiding her judgment, the angel of death which kills the firstborn - Christ in them -….…..and heading for the wilderness and the promised land, trusting the Lord to “feed” them and give them water to drink, keeping them alive, no longer depending on “Egypt” – church - for their spiritual life) Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.
Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.
Bank on this , I DONT ACCUSE ANYONE OF BEING FALSE , TILL I KNOW KNOW KNOW they are . IF things like mid , pre or post trib or other things made me label men as false GOOD night I would have fled even here . BUT TODD IS A DEMON FILLED MAN . HE IS TOTALLY and COMPTELEY false . and many , sister , many , so many leaders are TOTALLY BIG TIME DANGEROUS FALSE WOLVES . only most got no idea . Oh yes frienduff, I agree that Todd White is false......my first paragraph wasn't meant as an argument against that....I should have worded that better.
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Post by John on Feb 13, 2020 18:24:24 GMT -5
Here is some friendly advice . Don't give that man any credit . God alone was who allowed you to see truth and when we notice someone is way off , YEP GOD ALLOWED US TO SEE THAT TOO . I would not give myles munroe credit for a thing . Sometimes folks forget things or were taught a wrong mindset . But the moment I discern one as false and teaches dangerous things , I flee and never look back and wont even mention their name as having helped me to see a thing . I see false ones as that dangerous . and no false man is gonna spout lies all the time . they always have truths , they always have truths . Even pope francis can tell truths . There were men whose names I wont even make mention of that may have known some meats , yet they were false and they are fled never to be pointed to , never to be given any credit too for anything . My approach is this , if a man is false and hangs and supports false ones , We better FLEE and never look back . Many start out well in the beginning, but eventually because of tasting success they get tempted and start to sell out and get deceived, and I would guess that is what happened to poor Mr Munroe, as happens with so many of them. That is exactly what I think happened. I believe he started out right, but he developed his own unique specialized teaching about the Kingdom, and he had to keep creating more unique doctrines. That led to him teaching things that were completely unbiblical. It didn't seem to have started out that way, but it happened over time. All of his teachings are not bad, but the things he said in his later messages were so far off, no matter how good he was early on, I can't recommend people listen to him. It is a shame, because his message on being a good Ambassador is so right on. I do recommend people listen to that, but nothing else.
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Post by John on Feb 13, 2020 18:28:15 GMT -5
I think there is a lot of wisdom in that Cletus. I was listening to a teacher today, because someone asked me to. I have heard some of his stuff before, but I am not an avid follower or anything. But he said some things that I hadn't considered in the past about the story of the tower of Babel. I didn't necessarily agree with everything the guy was saying, but he did say things that made sense that were not at odds with scripture.
I always give Myles Munroe a lot of credit for shaping my views, all because of one message on being an Ambassador for Christ. I never recommend him to others, because even though I read one of his books and liked it, and loved that one message, later on, I ordered a set of teaching cds he had on the Kingdom of God and some of those things were off the wall. They started out good, for the most part. Probably 90 percent right in the first cds, but by the time I got to the later ones, they were completely in error. The fact he is wrong in many of his teachings will never take away from the influence he had on how I view the Bible, and I am thankful I came across his ministry.
When we look at it from this point of view, if I am taking you right, you are open to listening to different, but imperfect preachers, but you don't put all your faith and trust that everything they say is right. You don't follow anyone blindly. You accept what is in agreement with scripture, and you reject what is not? I think that is smart. Of course, if the preacher is more wrong than right, a person that is a known heretic, there is no reason to listen to them at all, but if they are mostly right, you might be cheating yourself out of good insight if you insist on them being absolutely perfect.
Here is some friendly advice . Don't give that man any credit . God alone was who allowed you to see truth and when we notice someone is way off , YEP GOD ALLOWED US TO SEE THAT TOO . I would not give myles munroe credit for a thing . Sometimes folks forget things or were taught a wrong mindset . But the moment I discern one as false and teaches dangerous things , I flee and never look back and wont even mention their name as having helped me to see a thing . I see false ones as that dangerous . and no false man is gonna spout lies all the time . they always have truths , they always have truths . Even pope francis can tell truths . There were men whose names I wont even make mention of that may have known some meats , yet they were false and they are fled never to be pointed to , never to be given any credit too for anything . My approach is this , if a man is false and hangs and supports false ones , We better FLEE and never look back . I understand where you and even 777 are coming from. The reason I give Myles Munroe credit is because I am not going to take credit for something I got from another teacher. I happened upon his message that he shared on television, realized how true it was, and it has had a profound influence on me. I did not suddenly become his disciple, and start following him blindly. I am glad I didn't, because he would have led me into the ditch, but I feel like I must give credit where it is due. I feel like Watchful is right when she says that many start out right, but go astray over time. I really think that is what happened to Pastor Munroe.
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Post by John on Feb 13, 2020 20:00:22 GMT -5
You said something that got me thinking. When Peter got off, he had Paul to get him back on the right path. Who corrected Todd White?
After seeing his associations, and looking at the videos in the thread about him, and looking at the message John said was off, I will not follow him. We need to avoid anyone not in the truth, but I doubt anyone really made a serious attempt to correct him. Brother , the lambs gotta look out for the lambs . And my message is very simple . NO where in the bible did paul say if men teach contrary and hang out with false ones who do , We should even continue to listen . FACT IS he said FLEE THEM . we better . due to how slick todd is and others too , THIS IS HOW folks will end up in time being deceived . WE FLEE that which is false . And the charasmetic move , nar , emergent , a list so long , are infected huge . THE HOLY SPIRIT is our guide , but most have quenched it . GOD would never lead us to align with the false , SO WHY ON EARTH do folks make excuse for their pet teachers WHO DO THAT . The fact is many are loving men above GOD . Sad fact . I see it all the time , even when they know one they like is either teaching false things and or hanging out with the false , THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO LET them GO, and make excuse . Look all I am doing is trying to help all . WE KNOW the tree by its fruits , and who they hang out with and support , SHOWS where there heart is . We need to be made wise IN JESUS . and red flags not only include what is taught , but who they associate with and praise too . WOULD the HOLY GHOST have you praise KENNETH COPELAND NO WAY . SO WHY DOES TODD . and Kenneth is not the only man Todd praises , LOOK at who he is personally teaching at his school . ITS all bad news . And every time I warn us to watch out for who they hang around , cAUSE that IS A MEGA SIGN , it just keeps getting down played . LEADERS are supposed TO LOOK OUT for the flocks concern , not walk them or allow them to associate with such dangers . WE MUST triple down , because now its getting so delusional and its about to get worse . YOU MARK those words my friends , before too long , folks like me will be accused of gossip and slander and not having love , JUST because I WARN AGAINST false leaders . TODD and others are already HUGE on getting this pumped into the mindsets of all . I have heard enough of Todd White's own message to know he is teaching things that are false, but he needs to be judged on his teachings, not Kenneth Copeland's errors. Do you see a difference between King Ahab and King Jehoshaphat? King Jehoshaphat called Ahab his brother, and went into battle along side of him. How can that be? Didn't he know that Ahab was wicked? Does that mean Jehoshaphat was just as bad, and every evil thing Ahab did can be charged to Jehoshaphat? God clearly wasn't pleased with their alliance, just as I don't believe God wants us endorsing bad ministers, but calling someone your mentor doesn't mean you agree with everything they teach. I take it into account. God wasn't happy that Jehoshaphat would go into battle with Ahab, but God made a distinction between the two men, and God saved Jehoshaphat.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 13, 2020 20:07:04 GMT -5
Brother , the lambs gotta look out for the lambs . And my message is very simple . NO where in the bible did paul say if men teach contrary and hang out with false ones who do , We should even continue to listen . FACT IS he said FLEE THEM . we better . due to how slick todd is and others too , THIS IS HOW folks will end up in time being deceived . WE FLEE that which is false . And the charasmetic move , nar , emergent , a list so long , are infected huge . THE HOLY SPIRIT is our guide , but most have quenched it . GOD would never lead us to align with the false , SO WHY ON EARTH do folks make excuse for their pet teachers WHO DO THAT . The fact is many are loving men above GOD . Sad fact . I see it all the time , even when they know one they like is either teaching false things and or hanging out with the false , THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO LET them GO, and make excuse . Look all I am doing is trying to help all . WE KNOW the tree by its fruits , and who they hang out with and support , SHOWS where there heart is . We need to be made wise IN JESUS . and red flags not only include what is taught , but who they associate with and praise too . WOULD the HOLY GHOST have you praise KENNETH COPELAND NO WAY . SO WHY DOES TODD . and Kenneth is not the only man Todd praises , LOOK at who he is personally teaching at his school . ITS all bad news . And every time I warn us to watch out for who they hang around , cAUSE that IS A MEGA SIGN , it just keeps getting down played . LEADERS are supposed TO LOOK OUT for the flocks concern , not walk them or allow them to associate with such dangers . WE MUST triple down , because now its getting so delusional and its about to get worse . YOU MARK those words my friends , before too long , folks like me will be accused of gossip and slander and not having love , JUST because I WARN AGAINST false leaders . TODD and others are already HUGE on getting this pumped into the mindsets of all . I have heard enough of Todd White's own message to know he is teaching things that are false, but he needs to be judged on his teachings, not Kenneth Copeland's errors. Do you see a difference between King Ahab and King Jehoshaphat? King Jehoshaphat called Ahab his brother, and went into battle along side of him. How can that be? Didn't he know that Ahab was wicked? Does that mean Jehoshaphat was just as bad, and every evil thing Ahab did can be charged to Jehoshaphat? God clearly wasn't pleased with their alliance, just as I don't believe God wants us endorsing bad ministers, but calling someone your mentor doesn't mean you agree with everything they teach. I take it into account. God wasn't happy that Jehoshaphat would go into battle with Ahab, but God made a distinction between the two men, and God saved Jehoshaphat.
Butero , I just got so depressed at this statement . BUT TODD WHITE KNOWS EVERYTHING KENNETH TEACHES , HE KNOWS exactly WHAT KENNETH IS and HE LOVES it all . OH butero he is infautuated with the man . Todd is more dangerous than even Kenneth . You watch exactly what direction he will take all who sit under him . It wont be long for we see ol todd dropping even clearer hints And when HE DOES , no worries I wont say I TOLD the people SO , but I did warn them .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 20:11:39 GMT -5
Brother , the lambs gotta look out for the lambs . And my message is very simple . NO where in the bible did paul say if men teach contrary and hang out with false ones who do , We should even continue to listen . FACT IS he said FLEE THEM . we better . due to how slick todd is and others too , THIS IS HOW folks will end up in time being deceived . WE FLEE that which is false . And the charasmetic move , nar , emergent , a list so long , are infected huge . THE HOLY SPIRIT is our guide , but most have quenched it . GOD would never lead us to align with the false , SO WHY ON EARTH do folks make excuse for their pet teachers WHO DO THAT . The fact is many are loving men above GOD . Sad fact . I see it all the time , even when they know one they like is either teaching false things and or hanging out with the false , THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO LET them GO, and make excuse . Look all I am doing is trying to help all . WE KNOW the tree by its fruits , and who they hang out with and support , SHOWS where there heart is . We need to be made wise IN JESUS . and red flags not only include what is taught , but who they associate with and praise too . WOULD the HOLY GHOST have you praise KENNETH COPELAND NO WAY . SO WHY DOES TODD . and Kenneth is not the only man Todd praises , LOOK at who he is personally teaching at his school . ITS all bad news . And every time I warn us to watch out for who they hang around , cAUSE that IS A MEGA SIGN , it just keeps getting down played . LEADERS are supposed TO LOOK OUT for the flocks concern , not walk them or allow them to associate with such dangers . WE MUST triple down , because now its getting so delusional and its about to get worse . YOU MARK those words my friends , before too long , folks like me will be accused of gossip and slander and not having love , JUST because I WARN AGAINST false leaders . TODD and others are already HUGE on getting this pumped into the mindsets of all . I have heard enough of Todd White's own message to know he is teaching things that are false, but he needs to be judged on his teachings, not Kenneth Copeland's errors. Do you see a difference between King Ahab and King Jehoshaphat? King Jehoshaphat called Ahab his brother, and went into battle along side of him. How can that be? Didn't he know that Ahab was wicked? Does that mean Jehoshaphat was just as bad, and every evil thing Ahab did can be charged to Jehoshaphat? God clearly wasn't pleased with their alliance, just as I don't believe God wants us endorsing bad ministers, but calling someone your mentor doesn't mean you agree with everything they teach. I take it into account. God wasn't happy that Jehoshaphat would go into battle with Ahab, but God made a distinction between the two men, and God saved Jehoshaphat.
I think the point that is being brought though, is that if someone is endorsing and hanging around with those who we already know to be false....then it's a red flag that means that someone needs to be tested carefully. And in this case Todd White does fail the test.
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