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Post by Giller on Feb 23, 2020 13:31:10 GMT -5
This message is false. The Apostles did refer to themselves as being Apostles. These videos are attacking men of God to defend their lawlessness. I don't receive any of it! I am not sure exactly in what way they are meaning it, but Peter and Paul did call themselves apostles, but they were not doing so, so to make themselves look higher than others, and it seems that this is what that video was addressing, at least it seems that way. And pastors and so on are offices of the church, but you do not make some ecclesiastical title out of it, to were they are more important than the rest of the body. And it is clear in the new testament that it is the body of believers that is the church. And I do not think they were attacking having services in a building, there is nothing specific that I saw about that. They may have talked about ministers having special seats of some kind, but in and of itself chairs, seats and so on are not wrong to sit on, but if a minister is purposely wanting special seats because he thinks he is more important than others, than that motive is not good. And of course buildings or houses are fine.
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Post by Giller on Feb 23, 2020 13:40:24 GMT -5
Good video Dezi, I have been against this repeat after me sinner's prayer for a while, for it really is not scriptural, and how many truly get saved by this means? Many are proclaimed born again, but how many truly have been? I have seen these things since somewhere in the late 1990's to early 2000's. And I do not like this thing about people calling the building the church, when it is the people that are believers, that are the church. What is needed is the power of God, and not the tactics of men, let us just simply stick to the bible. whats not scriptural about the sinners prayer? I ask because i keep hearing/reading people say this and i have had The Holy Spirit rain down on me and speak thru me... the gospel, and then there was prayer and thru me God has saved hundreds. the prayer was pretty much the sinners prayer. there was also that sweet sweet aroma in the air that is only present when someone gets saved. Afterwards their eyes did shine.
i can understand the sinners prayer is not found in scripture but what i can find in scripture is repenting and turning from sin, and turning to Jesus Christ and believing on Him as LORD and Savior, and that He died to pay the penalty of sin, and was risen in three days from the grave, and did ascend and was seated on the right hand of God. when i have preached the gospel i begin with the first three chapters of genesis explaining why we are born in a fallen state and in need of a savior, and John chapter 1 in the beginning was the Word, I backdoor this with the book of revelation speaking on who The Word is... i give much testimony, and am all over the NT with scripture about salvation and who Jesus is. if all this is covered, especially with the unction of The Holy Ghost being the one actually speaking... what is unbiblical about the sinners prayer? what more per scripture is there to cover in regards to salvation?
I am asking this because its puzzling to me i keep hearing its un biblical. I do not think its so much the prayer... but the application some ministers use. because of this i must speak... because why should we knock something that does work, i say again... hundreds of people God has saved thru me. I cant fathom why people are saying this, or why we would throw out a tool that is effective when if the whole truth, aka full gospel is being proclaimed God will use it, and in my experience does use it.
furthermore, i do not want to come across as pushing this on you to do... if The Spirit leads you in another way or is making you apprehensive about using the sinners prayer by all means follow that leading, I am just a man and if you forgot my name it would mean nothing on the time line of eternity for you. i am nothing. but even still i am curious whats not biblical about the sinners prayer, or leading someone in prayer? and i do leave this question open ended to anyone who would reply.
I am not against praying a prayer of repentance to God, but biblically speaking, they were stirred in their hearts by the message, and were left with the decision of whether to repent or not, and there is not one example in the bible of a repeat after me sinner's prayer, there is the example prayer of Jesus to pray in like manner, but Jesus said to pray in like manner, it was an example, and if someone prays it from the heart fine, if someone happens to truly have gotten saved by repeating the sinner's prayer after someone, and it was said from the heart, well then fine, but no were does the bible encourage such practice, it is just not there and I want to promote the way it says it in the bible. I believe in sharing the message with them, and leaving it with them, and not forcing them to repeat after me. I do not want to stir up a false confession, I want to build faith in them so they can decide on their own to finally surrender their lives to God. It is a confession that has to come from them, and even Jesus when he prayed for healing for people never said to repeat after him, so I will just follow the example of the bible, and if people do not like it, then that is them.
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Dezi
Junior Member
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Post by Dezi on Feb 23, 2020 13:50:19 GMT -5
Good video Dezi, I have been against this repeat after me sinner's prayer for a while, for it really is not scriptural, and how many truly get saved by this means? Many are proclaimed born again, but how many truly have been? I have seen these things since somewhere in the late 1990's to early 2000's. And I do not like this thing about people calling the building the church, when it is the people that are believers, that are the church. What is needed is the power of God, and not the tactics of men, let us just simply stick to the bible. whats not scriptural about the sinners prayer? I ask because i keep hearing/reading people say this and i have had The Holy Spirit rain down on me and speak thru me... the gospel, and then there was prayer and thru me God has saved hundreds. the prayer was pretty much the sinners prayer. there was also that sweet sweet aroma in the air that is only present when someone gets saved. Afterwards their eyes did shine.
i can understand the sinners prayer is not found in scripture but what i can find in scripture is repenting and turning from sin, and turning to Jesus Christ and believing on Him as LORD and Savior, and that He died to pay the penalty of sin, and was risen in three days from the grave, and did ascend and was seated on the right hand of God. when i have preached the gospel i begin with the first three chapters of genesis explaining why we are born in a fallen state and in need of a savior, and John chapter 1 in the beginning was the Word, I backdoor this with the book of revelation speaking on who The Word is... i give much testimony, and am all over the NT with scripture about salvation and who Jesus is. if all this is covered, especially with the unction of The Holy Ghost being the one actually speaking... what is unbiblical about the sinners prayer? what more per scripture is there to cover in regards to salvation?
I am asking this because its puzzling to me i keep hearing its un biblical. I do not think its so much the prayer... but the application some ministers use. because of this i must speak... because why should we knock something that does work, i say again... hundreds of people God has saved thru me. I cant fathom why people are saying this, or why we would throw out a tool that is effective when if the whole truth, aka full gospel is being proclaimed God will use it, and in my experience does use it.
furthermore, i do not want to come across as pushing this on you to do... if The Spirit leads you in another way or is making you apprehensive about using the sinners prayer by all means follow that leading, I am just a man and if you forgot my name it would mean nothing on the time line of eternity for you. i am nothing. but even still i am curious whats not biblical about the sinners prayer, or leading someone in prayer? and i do leave this question open ended to anyone who would reply.
Cletus, My immediate response is simply this. I don't think it's wrong to ask Jesus to be Lord of our life and accept what he's done for us. I think what the issue is is that we think and are taught that once we say that one prayer it ends there. That is what is taught to the masses. We don't have to be refined and truly continue to repent for sins. That is where the ere is to me.
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Post by Giller on Feb 23, 2020 15:24:26 GMT -5
This is the way Jesus did things:
Mat 9:28-30 (28) And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord. (29) Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you. (30) And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it.
What Jesus did here was stir up faith in these blind men, and a confession of them believing that Christ could heal them came about.
This is what Jesus did, he did not get them to repeat after him, he just stirred their faith which resulted in a confession.
That is the example I want to follow.
If someone can prove to me otherwise only by the bible, then you have my support, but if you cannot then you do not have my support.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 23, 2020 15:33:59 GMT -5
whats not scriptural about the sinners prayer? I ask because i keep hearing/reading people say this and i have had The Holy Spirit rain down on me and speak thru me... the gospel, and then there was prayer and thru me God has saved hundreds. the prayer was pretty much the sinners prayer. there was also that sweet sweet aroma in the air that is only present when someone gets saved. Afterwards their eyes did shine.
i can understand the sinners prayer is not found in scripture but what i can find in scripture is repenting and turning from sin, and turning to Jesus Christ and believing on Him as LORD and Savior, and that He died to pay the penalty of sin, and was risen in three days from the grave, and did ascend and was seated on the right hand of God. when i have preached the gospel i begin with the first three chapters of genesis explaining why we are born in a fallen state and in need of a savior, and John chapter 1 in the beginning was the Word, I backdoor this with the book of revelation speaking on who The Word is... i give much testimony, and am all over the NT with scripture about salvation and who Jesus is. if all this is covered, especially with the unction of The Holy Ghost being the one actually speaking... what is unbiblical about the sinners prayer? what more per scripture is there to cover in regards to salvation?
I am asking this because its puzzling to me i keep hearing its un biblical. I do not think its so much the prayer... but the application some ministers use. because of this i must speak... because why should we knock something that does work, i say again... hundreds of people God has saved thru me. I cant fathom why people are saying this, or why we would throw out a tool that is effective when if the whole truth, aka full gospel is being proclaimed God will use it, and in my experience does use it.
furthermore, i do not want to come across as pushing this on you to do... if The Spirit leads you in another way or is making you apprehensive about using the sinners prayer by all means follow that leading, I am just a man and if you forgot my name it would mean nothing on the time line of eternity for you. i am nothing. but even still i am curious whats not biblical about the sinners prayer, or leading someone in prayer? and i do leave this question open ended to anyone who would reply.
Cletus, My immediate response is simply this. I don't think it's wrong to ask Jesus to be Lord of our life and accept what he's done for us. I think what the issue is is that we think and are taught that once we say that one prayer it ends there. That is what is taught to the masses. We don't have to be refined and truly continue to repent for sins. That is where the ere is to me. SPOT ON RIGHT SISTER . SPOT ON RIGHT .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2020 17:18:20 GMT -5
Let's learn how to come out of the Traditions of men Amen! I understand what he is bringing across.....the simplicity of Christ. Jesus did not come to bring us a new religion, but a WAY of life in the Spirit, following Him. Flesh is the culprit, and always is.....they really have been following a system that is of the flesh and world, rather than the simplicity in the Spirit.....all too often they make it about performance and putting on a show for the people and having visible things happening. Most of those churches are temples....houses built by the hands of men....and following rote formulas much like Temple worship. But yes, His true church is really not something we can point to and say here it is, or there it is....it's in spirit and is made up of all true believers wherever they happen to be. Most of us need to have our minds renewed to have the mind of Christ about these things, we have had our ideas formed by a system that is not of God.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2020 17:25:56 GMT -5
Amen to what he is showing. It just seems to be how it goes, the less of the Holy Spirit there is the more there are the ways of flesh and traditions of men to fill the vacuum. It's very scary to think the Lord is departing the temple in these days....so there are many deceptions and formulas coming in to fill the vacuum....I even have seem one or two videos of some 'protestant' churches adopting overtly similar rituals as Catholicism. (This was a while back and I don't know how I would find them again, but if I happen to come across them again in the will of the Lord I will post them.)
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Post by John on Feb 23, 2020 19:48:36 GMT -5
I will try to take time to watch these as soon as I can. It seems like there are mixed feelings about the content.
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Post by Giller on Feb 23, 2020 19:55:17 GMT -5
Now I am totally for people confessing Jesus as Lord, and repentance, 100%, but the repeat after me thing, is not an example we see in the bible, let us be honest, let us get real with the bible, we have nothing to prove.
And there are sometimes were in some of the repeat after me prayers, were repentance is not mentioned, or receiving a fact of how Jesus died on the cross is not mentioned, and this is the case only in certain cases.
To me there is nothing to get angry about here, or defend.
Now concerning the altar stuff, I am not certain in every way what they meant by the altar call stuff, were they saying that having people come in front in order to be prayed for, is wrong, because if they are saying this, I am not for this, but if they are alluding to the way the word "altar" is being used, that it may not be scriptural, then I am open to look into this, which I have not.
I do not get offended by being confronted by things like this, and I will look into this, and maybe someone here can explain why they think it is scriptural to use the word altar this way, or why it is not scriptural to do so, than we can weight the evidence.
But do so by scripture, and not by well I have done so for many years thereof it has to be scriptural, I am not concerned about how long someone practices whatever, or how much success it has brought them and so on, none of that matters, just that we see things the way God intends us to see them.
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Post by John on Feb 23, 2020 21:00:39 GMT -5
I just got through watching the videos, and I have mixed feelings about the things they are saying. There is no question that the actual church is the congregation of people. At the same time, I think they are kind of being nit picky when they make such a big deal about calling the place where the church meets a church. The reason they do this is because it lets the people in the community know that this building is where the congregation meets at the appointed time. I really see no problem with this.
Altars. I have never read anywhere in scripture that Jesus himself is an altar. He is our great High Priest, but the High Priest is not the altar, so I do not get how that is Biblical. Having people come to an altar and to pray a prayer is done to make a public confession. That is completely Biblical. If it is just a matter of the name of the place where the people kneel being called an altar, again, to me this is being nit picky.
The scriptures that tell people not to be a respecter of persons are dealing with not treating someone as a lesser person because they are poor or from a different race or something like that. These scriptures are not dealing with positions, and calling one man Apostle, Prophet, Pastor, Evangelist or Teacher, or anything else with a capital letter in front of the title of their position. I capitalize these titles all the time, as the titles are Biblical. I do that for other offices too, like Bishop, Deacon, Elder, or even things like Helps, Usher, anything. It has nothing to do with saying one man is better than another. It is just identifying their calling or the office they hold. I do not see anything wrong with that either. Notice what the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 13:1-7
LET every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
If I take things the way the man lays it out in the videos, I am being a respetor of persons in doing this.
Next, there is the issue of traditions. There are traditions of men, that sometimes are in opposition to scripture, and Jesus did come against people using traditions to disobey God's ordinances, but not all traditions are bad and evil, and the Bible actually uplifts some traditions.
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. 2 Thessalonians 2:15
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; 2 Thessalonians 3:6-7
We have had a long discussion in the past about tithes. Are New Testament Christians supposed to tithe to the church? We know that they paid tithes in the Old Testament. I do not know of any scripture that says we must or that the storehouse has become the local church. Most congregations that teach this assume that the church took the place of the Temple, and that the principal of tithing still applies. That is one of those things that I would say a man or woman needs to follow their conscience. If you feel like God would have you tithe, do it. If not, don't. I have no issue with ministers getting full time salaries. That is completely Biblical, and tithes do help pay salaries. Notice what the Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9:7-14
Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should pow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap of your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about the holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
It is because of passages like this that many take the teachings about tithing to the temple, and say it now applies to the local church. I can see legitimate issues that the videos address. You can have a real church in someone's home, if that is where a congregation meets. You could have a real church meet in the park, at an harbor, a rented storefront, or even a message board. Still, if a church in a city owns a building where they meet, I am not sure what we should call the building other than a church. I do not see the harm in placing the name of the congregation that meets at this building on the building itself.
solid, I am not sure what it is about the videos that you found so offensive? If you do not see what is being said as correct, nobody says you have to accept it. There are some things that are legitimate, like the idea that repeating a prayer is guaranteed to save you eternally. If you pray a prayer asking Jesus to forgive your sins and come into your heart to save you and be your Lord and Savior, and you mean it, I believe He will do so, but many go to these altar calls and never really get saved. They just go through the motions. There is a lot to think about here, and more scriptures we can include that would add to this discussion. I think this is an important topic, and I thank Dezi for giving us these videos to look at, as they certainly have got me thinking about what is Biblical and what is not in the modern church.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Feb 23, 2020 22:46:39 GMT -5
whats not scriptural about the sinners prayer? I ask because i keep hearing/reading people say this and i have had The Holy Spirit rain down on me and speak thru me... the gospel, and then there was prayer and thru me God has saved hundreds. the prayer was pretty much the sinners prayer. there was also that sweet sweet aroma in the air that is only present when someone gets saved. Afterwards their eyes did shine.
i can understand the sinners prayer is not found in scripture but what i can find in scripture is repenting and turning from sin, and turning to Jesus Christ and believing on Him as LORD and Savior, and that He died to pay the penalty of sin, and was risen in three days from the grave, and did ascend and was seated on the right hand of God. when i have preached the gospel i begin with the first three chapters of genesis explaining why we are born in a fallen state and in need of a savior, and John chapter 1 in the beginning was the Word, I backdoor this with the book of revelation speaking on who The Word is... i give much testimony, and am all over the NT with scripture about salvation and who Jesus is. if all this is covered, especially with the unction of The Holy Ghost being the one actually speaking... what is unbiblical about the sinners prayer? what more per scripture is there to cover in regards to salvation?
I am asking this because its puzzling to me i keep hearing its un biblical. I do not think its so much the prayer... but the application some ministers use. because of this i must speak... because why should we knock something that does work, i say again... hundreds of people God has saved thru me. I cant fathom why people are saying this, or why we would throw out a tool that is effective when if the whole truth, aka full gospel is being proclaimed God will use it, and in my experience does use it.
furthermore, i do not want to come across as pushing this on you to do... if The Spirit leads you in another way or is making you apprehensive about using the sinners prayer by all means follow that leading, I am just a man and if you forgot my name it would mean nothing on the time line of eternity for you. i am nothing. but even still i am curious whats not biblical about the sinners prayer, or leading someone in prayer? and i do leave this question open ended to anyone who would reply.
I am not against praying a prayer of repentance to God, but biblically speaking, they were stirred in their hearts by the message, and were left with the decision of whether to repent or not, and there is not one example in the bible of a repeat after me sinner's prayer, there is the example prayer of Jesus to pray in like manner, but Jesus said to pray in like manner, it was an example, and if someone prays it from the heart fine, if someone happens to truly have gotten saved by repeating the sinner's prayer after someone, and it was said from the heart, well then fine, but no were does the bible encourage such practice, it is just not there and I want to promote the way it says it in the bible. I believe in sharing the message with them, and leaving it with them, and not forcing them to repeat after me. I do not want to stir up a false confession, I want to build faith in them so they can decide on their own to finally surrender their lives to God. It is a confession that has to come from them, and even Jesus when he prayed for healing for people never said to repeat after him, so I will just follow the example of the bible, and if people do not like it, then that is them. I agree with what you say the confession has to do with them on a personal level. many sermons do not even mention turning from sin but then they have a sinners prayer at the end of the service. this is apart of what i speak on when i say "believe and receive". that kind of delivery of the gospel is unbiblical. that kind of delivery of the gospel could spark a false confession. When i preach the gospel i begin with mankind being born into a fallen nature "and this includes me and you"... every single human. i leave it open in the prayer for them to repent of their sins that are against God. I do not make them confess it to me, but i may verbally repent of something myself to help lead them.
truly i do not think there is anything wrong with your approach... and i do see what you say " I believe in sharing the message with them, and leaving it with them, and not forcing them to repeat after me." i see even here on the forum that you do use this approach and that it is effective, even with me. scripture is clear... His Word will not return void. the reason i originally quoted you in this thread was while what you say is true, the bible does not give an example of it... it also does not forbid it. when i first began hearing the sinners prayer is unbiblical i saw it as an attack of building the kingdom... as a way to get people who may be learning still how to do the work of an evangelist... to turn from something i know God uses. i dont want to see that happen because some folks out there are preaching watered down versions of the gospel or just flat out false gospels. another gospel even. i am not trying to be critical here of anyone, but i think we should address the actual problem, not the tactic used. (but used improperly) Its called the sinners prayer. its for sinners to come to Jesus.
and for the record, i also agree with you that not everyone that warms up a pew and says the sinners prayer is saved.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Feb 23, 2020 22:56:49 GMT -5
whats not scriptural about the sinners prayer? I ask because i keep hearing/reading people say this and i have had The Holy Spirit rain down on me and speak thru me... the gospel, and then there was prayer and thru me God has saved hundreds. the prayer was pretty much the sinners prayer. there was also that sweet sweet aroma in the air that is only present when someone gets saved. Afterwards their eyes did shine.
i can understand the sinners prayer is not found in scripture but what i can find in scripture is repenting and turning from sin, and turning to Jesus Christ and believing on Him as LORD and Savior, and that He died to pay the penalty of sin, and was risen in three days from the grave, and did ascend and was seated on the right hand of God. when i have preached the gospel i begin with the first three chapters of genesis explaining why we are born in a fallen state and in need of a savior, and John chapter 1 in the beginning was the Word, I backdoor this with the book of revelation speaking on who The Word is... i give much testimony, and am all over the NT with scripture about salvation and who Jesus is. if all this is covered, especially with the unction of The Holy Ghost being the one actually speaking... what is unbiblical about the sinners prayer? what more per scripture is there to cover in regards to salvation?
I am asking this because its puzzling to me i keep hearing its un biblical. I do not think its so much the prayer... but the application some ministers use. because of this i must speak... because why should we knock something that does work, i say again... hundreds of people God has saved thru me. I cant fathom why people are saying this, or why we would throw out a tool that is effective when if the whole truth, aka full gospel is being proclaimed God will use it, and in my experience does use it.
furthermore, i do not want to come across as pushing this on you to do... if The Spirit leads you in another way or is making you apprehensive about using the sinners prayer by all means follow that leading, I am just a man and if you forgot my name it would mean nothing on the time line of eternity for you. i am nothing. but even still i am curious whats not biblical about the sinners prayer, or leading someone in prayer? and i do leave this question open ended to anyone who would reply.
Cletus, My immediate response is simply this. I don't think it's wrong to ask Jesus to be Lord of our life and accept what he's done for us. I think what the issue is is that we think and are taught that once we say that one prayer it ends there. That is what is taught to the masses. We don't have to be refined and truly continue to repent for sins. That is where the ere is to me. its error to The LORD also. repentance is to be a continuous attitude of the heart, a way of life even. The bible names a man who did live this way unto God:
Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. Job 1:2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. Job 1:3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east. Job 1:4 And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them. Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
Dezi, to read your posts from when you first came here until today... thank God for what He is doing in your life. He is for sure revealing truth to you. no one can ever take this from you. no matter what they say... you know. it is a treasure with worth that cant be measured. God is good!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 7:32:42 GMT -5
oh, yeah i left of the confess with the mouth Jesus is LORD part from my above post. I think the issue that is being brought across in a nutshell is more about letting God be God and allowing Christ to be the Head and lead by His Spirit. For example, a person doesn't have to confess with the mouth the minute they are saved....they might, and they can, but they don't necessarily have to, they might be focused and preoccupied at first with what is taking place just between them and the Lord, inwardly, which is a good thing and in such cases we ideally wouldn't want to interrupt what God is doing in order to get a person to conform to a method. A sinner's prayer might well be how the Lord leads someone to Christ, there is no law against praying, but on the other hand it's a problem if a 'sinner's prayer' is taking the place of relying on the Holy Spirit and Him genuinely moving upon a person's heart. I see the main problem is that the churches all too often have essentially being putting God in a box of their own methods, expecting Him to follow our methods and formulas, rather than we following what He wants to do, how He wants to move......it's a problem because methods and formulas can interfere with and quench the moving of the Holy Spirit, and at worst they can be replacing Him entirely. This is really talking about an ideal here, of course we are all human and seldom do we see perfection on this side of heaven. But we do want to learn and grow and be moving in the right direction. And especially given the times we are in and how the falling away is occurring now, I believe we want and need to be endeavouring to separate from all that is of the flesh, and seeking the Lord for His will and way as much as we can.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 7:43:13 GMT -5
And just to mention that the term altar is used in Catholicism because their doctrine is that the bread and wine actually transubstantiates into the actual body and blood of Jesus and that they are therefore at the altar of His sacrifice. Yikes, that should make us think twice....He is not being sacrificed again and again, God forbid...and I even think it's possible that might have something to do with why the Lord was so severe when Moses struck the Rock twice.
Jesus said to "GO and make disciples", the idea of an altar in the protestant churches is at least partly because they have replaced "going out" to make disciples to "bringing them in" to make disciples. There is no altar or "altar" calls out in the highways and biways or in the workplace or in people's homes.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 7:53:16 GMT -5
This message is false. The Apostles did refer to themselves as being Apostles. These videos are attacking men of God to defend their lawlessness. I don't receive any of it! LAWLESSNESS..........is not allowing Christ to be Head and not following His leading by the Holy Spirit, that's what lawlessness is brother. Doing things our own way, according to our own ideas, inventing our own methods and formulas and expecting the Lord to confine and conform Himself to our man-made methods and formalities is actually lawlessness and presumption. The mystery of lawlessness.......quenching the Holy Spirit!! Thank the Lord He is so longsuffering and merciful, He has borne with us......but I believe His longsuffering is coming to an end.
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