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Post by solid on Feb 24, 2020 12:54:04 GMT -5
Do we pray at that altar today? Absolutely we do, just simply when we pray. When we pray we pray to our Father which is in heaven. What is being sacrificed today? I always saw us as praying at Gods throne, not an altar.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Feb 24, 2020 12:59:08 GMT -5
I need to leave for a bit, but I've enjoyed the discussion. I need to investigate this further.
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Post by Giller on Feb 24, 2020 13:00:18 GMT -5
That is how I look at it. Your bed or sofa or a bench could potentially be your altar, if that is where you kneel in prayer. In the church, you can make your pew your altar. By the definition, I think we were using the word wrong, but I am not sure what is right? Well there were times at different places were Abraham would create a physical altar, and sacrifice a lamb upon it. That physical altar was not a pew, or a pulpit and so on, it was a place of sacrifice, which spiritually speaking pointed to the ultimate sacrifice which was Jesus. It was always an animal sacrifice upon the altar. Well today we no longer need to build physical altars, for Jesus' physical altar on earth was the cross, which was the place of his sacrifice. And upon death he went to sprinkle his blood upon the Heavenly altar in heaven, which was part of his sacrifice. And now we can come boldly before his heavenly throne and altar, spiritually speaking, for we pray to our Father which is in heaven. The altar was the place of his sacrifice (Jesus' sacrifice), and it was animals that were sacrificed upon physical altars under the old covenant.
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Post by solid on Feb 24, 2020 13:03:34 GMT -5
By the definition, I think we were using the word wrong, but I am not sure what is right? Well there were times at different places were Abraham would create a physical altar, and sacrifice a lamb upon it. That physical altar was not a pew, or a pulpit and so on, it was a place of sacrifice, which spiritually speaking pointed to the ultimate sacrifice which was Jesus. It was always an animal sacrifice upon the altar. Well today we no longer need to build physical altars, for Jesus' physical altar on earth was the cross, which was the place of his sacrifice. And upon death he went to sprinkle his blood upon the Heavenly altar in heaven, which was part of his sacrifice. And now we can come boldly before his heavenly throne and altar, spiritually speaking, for we pray to our Father which is in heaven. The altar was the place of his sacrifice (Jesus' sacrifice), and it was animals that were sacrificed upon physical altars under the old covenant. Why would we come before an altar today when the sacrifice on the cross was sufficient? I am beginning to think we are all off a little.
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Post by Giller on Feb 24, 2020 13:04:13 GMT -5
Absolutely we do, just simply when we pray. When we pray we pray to our Father which is in heaven. What is being sacrificed today? I always saw us as praying at Gods throne, not an altar. Oh no doubt we pray before God's throne, but somewhere in that place there is also an altar. And Jesus sacrifice was a one time deal, but now we just acknowledge his sacrifice, yet he continuously cleanses us by his his one time sacrifice, by his blood. of course repentance is needed.
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Post by Giller on Feb 24, 2020 13:07:51 GMT -5
Well there were times at different places were Abraham would create a physical altar, and sacrifice a lamb upon it. That physical altar was not a pew, or a pulpit and so on, it was a place of sacrifice, which spiritually speaking pointed to the ultimate sacrifice which was Jesus. It was always an animal sacrifice upon the altar. Well today we no longer need to build physical altars, for Jesus' physical altar on earth was the cross, which was the place of his sacrifice. And upon death he went to sprinkle his blood upon the Heavenly altar in heaven, which was part of his sacrifice. And now we can come boldly before his heavenly throne and altar, spiritually speaking, for we pray to our Father which is in heaven. The altar was the place of his sacrifice (Jesus' sacrifice), and it was animals that were sacrificed upon physical altars under the old covenant. Why would we come before an altar today when the sacrifice on the cross was sufficient? I am beginning to think we are all off a little. His sacrifice was sufficient no doubt, but we need to be continuously cleansed by his blood, and his blood flows from the heavenly altar. And also when Jesus died on the cross, the power of sin to reign in our lives were also nailed to the cross, but we continuously need the cross as well for sanctification.
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Post by Giller on Feb 24, 2020 13:11:25 GMT -5
God's blessings flows from his throne and also the Heavenly altar.
There is a lot that Jesus did through the cross.
Isa 53:5 (5) But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
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Post by solid on Feb 24, 2020 13:16:33 GMT -5
God's blessings flows from his throne and also the Heavenly altar. There is a lot that Jesus did through the cross. Isa 53:5 (5) But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Is there scripture that says we pray before a heavenly altar today? I can already see I have more to learn on this subject.
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Post by Giller on Feb 24, 2020 13:19:33 GMT -5
God's blessings flows from his throne and also the Heavenly altar. There is a lot that Jesus did through the cross. Isa 53:5 (5) But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Is there scripture that says we pray before a heavenly altar today? I can already see I have more to learn on this subject. Here is a scripture that talks about an heavenly altar and prayers being offered upon it. Rev 8:3 (3) And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And notice this golden altar was before the throne.
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Post by Giller on Feb 24, 2020 13:22:59 GMT -5
I guess it seems to show our prayers as some type of offering in that Revelations verse.
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Post by Giller on Feb 24, 2020 13:27:42 GMT -5
Here is a scripture I like about God's heavenly throne, which is were grace flows from:
Heb 4:16 (16) Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on Feb 24, 2020 13:28:22 GMT -5
Cletus, My immediate response is simply this. I don't think it's wrong to ask Jesus to be Lord of our life and accept what he's done for us. I think what the issue is is that we think and are taught that once we say that one prayer it ends there. That is what is taught to the masses. We don't have to be refined and truly continue to repent for sins. That is where the ere is to me. its error to The LORD also. repentance is to be a continuous attitude of the heart, a way of life even. The bible names a man who did live this way unto God:
Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. Job 1:2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. Job 1:3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east. Job 1:4 And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them. Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
Dezi, to read your posts from when you first came here until today... thank God for what He is doing in your life. He is for sure revealing truth to you. no one can ever take this from you. no matter what they say... you know. it is a treasure with worth that cant be measured. God is good!
Thank you Cletus for saying this. Nobody here can even fathom where God has brought me in the last 2 years. I was such a sinner that thought I knew Him but I just knew what had been taught to me in "church". So much was false and I was in great deception. I am learning so much about the Lord and His truth now! It's a process and I can't learn it all at once but I learn more every day. I am humbled before my God! I am such a dirty sinner! I have wronged him in almost every way possible! He has forgiven me and there is no way to tell you how I feel about that! I am still physically and mentally suffering but I am also rejoicing in what this horrible thing that has happened to me has done for me! I have found the ONE TRUE GOD! I give HIM all Glory and Honor and Praise for allowing me to go through this hell on earth to keep me from the true Hell that is for eternity! I pray everyone here counts their losses as gain!
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on Feb 24, 2020 13:31:38 GMT -5
And just to mention that the term altar is used in Catholicism because their doctrine is that the bread and wine actually transubstantiates into the actual body and blood of Jesus and that they are therefore at the altar of His sacrifice. Yikes, that should make us think twice....He is not being sacrificed again and again, God forbid...and I even think it's possible that might have something to do with why the Lord was so severe when Moses struck the Rock twice. Jesus said to "GO and make disciples", the idea of an altar in the protestant churches is at least partly because they have replaced "going out" to make disciples to "bringing them in" to make disciples. There is no altar or "altar" calls out in the highways and biways or in the workplace or in people's homes. You eyes are open dear sister! We are mimicking the Catholic church!
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on Feb 24, 2020 13:39:54 GMT -5
LAWLESSNESS..........is not allowing Christ to be Head and not following His leading by the Holy Spirit, that's what lawlessness is brother. Doing things our own way, according to our own ideas, inventing our own methods and formulas and expecting the Lord to confine and conform Himself to our man-made methods and formalities is actually lawlessness and presumption. The mystery of lawlessness.......quenching the Holy Spirit!! Thank the Lord He is so longsuffering and merciful, He has borne with us......but I believe His longsuffering is coming to an end. Lets expound even more on this topic dear sister . cause I want this to sink real deep into all hearts . Exactly right sister . Most folks either have quenched the Spirit or in truth never had it . THEY do things their own way , and seeker friendly is a fat example of this so is hermeneutics So is many traditions , not all traditions but many . They go about to Find their own way , their own path to getting things done . THEY believe they have wisdom and they have found a better way of doing things , YET HOW COME the way they DO does not line up with the WAY JESUS DID or the apostels did Church and all things . JESUS never said tone down anything to try and make converts , JESUS never said hug them to GOD and don't focus on their errors . JESUS never said many things they do and have done for years . And when I say many things they do and have done for years , I AM talking about the many things they do that CONTRADICT JESUS , the SCRITPURES and the very pattern HE set up and the apostels set up . They preach what they think is a love that will save all and get all to gather as one , YET their religion and love has failed to save those who sit under them in fact ITS A DELSUION and a lie that leads folks away from TRUSTING IN JESUS , TRUSTING IN HIM as the ONLY MEANS of salvation , From trusting in the YE MUST CONFESS HIM BY MOUTH and Believe that GOD has raised him from the dead . Many things they do and much hermuenitcis and greek so called they use to justify their religion . But its all dead and its all bad news . EITHER we follow the lamb or we follow men . EITHER we HEED the SPIRIT or we heed worldwise flesh led men Either we flee the false tabernacle and serve the true one in heaven , or we serve the tabernacle of men . Either we love and obey JESUS or we love and obey men . BUT IT CANT be and wont be BOTH . CHOOSE YE THIS DAY WHOM YE SHALL SERVE and DO SO DAILY , for the lambs IT SHALL BE JESUS CHRIST ALONE . I shudder with great fear for the many who do this not . I must tell you that your words make me so excited for God... I am not trying to build you up more than should be but I do want to tell you how instrumental you have been in my own conversion. You are one of the handful of people that have brought so much truth to me.... helped the veil to be removed from my eyes! The Holy Spirit has used you to save me brother! I am so thankful for men like you that allow HIM to use them. Let's all take heed and learn to do this and much more. I am praying for the Lord to help me know how to put the scriptures together to show others truth!
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Post by Giller on Feb 24, 2020 13:43:24 GMT -5
When we pray before God, we do so in faith, and continue to believe God's sacrifice (the cross), and when we pray in faith, we reach heaven, and reach in the spirit realm, God's throne and altar.
And somehow our prayers get considered as an offering, and it becomes a sweet smelling savor to God (incense).
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