|
Post by Giller on Feb 24, 2021 9:45:38 GMT -5
We have to stop defending unbiblical things, and stop justifying man made systems like denominations, empty those things and cling to the word.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Feb 24, 2021 10:22:28 GMT -5
Eph 4:11-12 (11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; (12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
This is what the bible says he gave prophets, apostles and so forth for, for the perfecting of the saints.
That is what I want to believe.
2Co 1:24 (24) Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
And it was not so they have dominion over our faith.
They help us, and perfect us in our walk, and it is by faith we stand, not by being covered by a pastor that we stand, but the bible says by faith.
1Co 2:5 (5) That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Our faith stands in the power of God, as the bible says it does.
Yes we need the 5 fold ministry, for God gave them to us, therefore we need them in some fashion or degree, but also we need the whole body of Christ.
Pastors, and so forth, render us to be accountable in obeying the word of God, and so that we put our faith in God, not our faith in a pastor, but our faith stands in the power of God.
They should seek to perfect us in our walk with God, and in our love for God and one another, and to obey things the way God says to obey things.
Often times there can be almost a type of Roman Catholic, or Nicolaitians type of Authority, to were you almost have to confess your sins to a priest, that is in the protestant churches, but also there is the flip side, to were some do not believe in having pastors who have some form of authority in the church, that is also wrong.
The covering of any church, or pastor, will always eventually fail you, for no man is perfect, do not seek a covering by man, but listen to this next scripture:
Isa 30:1
(1) Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:
What is God's spirit? The Holy Spirit.
|
|
|
Post by solid on Feb 24, 2021 10:51:00 GMT -5
We have to stop defending unbiblical things, and stop justifying man made systems like denominations, empty those things and cling to the word. John seems to be saying a covering is someone or something in authority. What do you mean by covering? The church I attend is non-denominational, but there are authorities.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Feb 24, 2021 13:01:36 GMT -5
We have to stop defending unbiblical things, and stop justifying man made systems like denominations, empty those things and cling to the word. John seems to be saying a covering is someone or something in authority. What do you mean by covering? The church I attend is non-denominational, but there are authorities. I agree with authority, and will let the bible say what it says on this.
|
|
|
Post by John on Feb 24, 2021 18:03:16 GMT -5
John seems to be saying a covering is someone or something in authority. What do you mean by covering? The church I attend is non-denominational, but there are authorities. I agree with authority, and will let the bible say what it says on this. Going back to the issue of authorities, the question to me is whether or not the authorities in the church have any accountability to God for what they do and say? If they do, then in a way, to me, they are a type of covering, just as the husband is a type of covering to his wife. To me, it comes down to what you think the word covering means.
To the issue of denominations, I do not think that there were denominations at the time of the Apostles in the book of Acts. The church was just getting started, and there was no need, but there is a pattern of leadership, where you had the Apostles overseeing a group of churches. To me, that is similar to denominations. I am not really for or against denominations, and I do not think they are right or wrong in absolute terms. The bigger issue to me is whether or not their doctrine is sound.
|
|
|
Post by John on Feb 24, 2021 19:07:57 GMT -5
I wanted to mention something to all of our members. I got a message from Freeforums asking for people to support them. I have nothing to do with this solicitation. They do allow for people to use their forums for free if they accept ads, and there is a limited amount of posts per month and limits on certain other things if you use the free service. In order to be ad free, and to up the storage space, I am paying a monthly fee already. It is reasonable. I am not complaining about it, but am just mentioning it. We do pay a fee for this message board. If anyone does wish to support them in addition to this, that is entirely up to you.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Feb 25, 2021 9:54:55 GMT -5
I agree with authority, and will let the bible say what it says on this. Going back to the issue of authorities, the question to me is whether or not the authorities in the church have any accountability to God for what they do and say? If they do, then in a way, to me, they are a type of covering, just as the husband is a type of covering to his wife. To me, it comes down to what you think the word covering means.
To the issue of denominations, I do not think that there were denominations at the time of the Apostles in the book of Acts. The church was just getting started, and there was no need, but there is a pattern of leadership, where you had the Apostles overseeing a group of churches. To me, that is similar to denominations. I am not really for or against denominations, and I do not think they are right or wrong in absolute terms. The bigger issue to me is whether or not their doctrine is sound.
Well I guess we will have to leave it at that for now, God bless. Here I will just put a link to something I wrote about how the man is head of the wife and so on, you can check it out at : narrow-way-forums.freeforums.net/thread/2631?page=64 , I believe it is post number 4. The specific covering mentioned in those verses, in regards to a woman, is word for word, her long hair.
|
|
|
Post by John on Feb 25, 2021 19:06:22 GMT -5
Going back to the issue of authorities, the question to me is whether or not the authorities in the church have any accountability to God for what they do and say? If they do, then in a way, to me, they are a type of covering, just as the husband is a type of covering to his wife. To me, it comes down to what you think the word covering means.
To the issue of denominations, I do not think that there were denominations at the time of the Apostles in the book of Acts. The church was just getting started, and there was no need, but there is a pattern of leadership, where you had the Apostles overseeing a group of churches. To me, that is similar to denominations. I am not really for or against denominations, and I do not think they are right or wrong in absolute terms. The bigger issue to me is whether or not their doctrine is sound.
Well I guess we will have to leave it at that for now, God bless. Here I will just put a link to something I wrote about how the man is head of the wife and so on, you can check it out at : narrow-way-forums.freeforums.net/thread/2631?page=64 , I believe it is post number 4. The specific covering mentioned in those verses, in regards to a woman, is word for word, her long hair. The woman's hair is given her as a covering. You are absolutely right about that. I am just wondering what you see a covering as being? Do you think that Paul's oversight of the churches provided them a type of covering? Was Paul responsible for those churches in any way? That is the whole question here. By no means am I pushing for denominations. I am not part of a denomination anymore. The biggest reason I am not part of a denomination is because they repeat false doctrine that was started by the person that started them. Any false teachings they had are passed on. Then there is the issue of the churches meeting and taking things that were once right and creating errors that all the churches now must go along with. The denominations create a sort of stability and unity if all believe and teach the same things, but unless the foundation is the Bible, that is not always good. I do not think we can really have a good discussion on denominations and whether or not coverings are Biblical till we know what each person means when they use the word covering. I am not sure what you think a covering is? To me it is a person or body that is in charge, and where the buck stops. It is the person or body that takes responsibility for things. I do not see that as unBiblical, but you may not be meaning the same thing when you speak of a covering.
|
|
|
Post by solid on Feb 26, 2021 8:11:42 GMT -5
John seems to be saying a covering is someone or something in authority. What do you mean by covering? The church I attend is non-denominational, but there are authorities. I agree with authority, and will let the bible say what it says on this. Do you believe authorities provide a covering?
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Feb 26, 2021 12:07:18 GMT -5
I guess since people are still talking about it, I may elaborate more, and get into more details, but to me the buck stops with what the bible says.
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Feb 27, 2021 11:31:41 GMT -5
I guess since people are still talking about it, I may elaborate more, and get into more details, but to me the buck stops with what the bible says. and if the buck dont stop at what the bible says , IT FALLS FLAT and DEEP RIGHT INTO THE PIT .
|
|
|
Post by Tabitha3319 on Feb 28, 2021 18:23:40 GMT -5
Today has been such a good day! We visited my parents and went to the pier on the beach to go fishing. I didn't catch anything but the weather was balmy and beautiful.
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Feb 28, 2021 19:12:05 GMT -5
Today has been such a good day! We visited my parents and went to the pier on the beach to go fishing. I didn't catch anything but the weather was balmy and beautiful. OH what a wonderful reminder just came to me . I shall make you fishers of men . The gospel . OH souls need saving . Leap up sister . leap up and let the LORD be praised .
|
|
ohhello
Senior Member
Global Moderator
Let us rejoice in the Lord Jesus!
Posts: 6,304
|
Post by ohhello on Mar 1, 2021 6:21:39 GMT -5
That is a lovely reminder brother Frienduff. Souls really do need saving. We are running out of time. Keep doing the Lord's work, before it's all done and over and the Lord Jesus returns.
Sounds lovely sister Tabitha. Sounds similar to where I live here. We have a beach, harbour and lots of folk go fishing. Izzy goes for walks on the promenade and on the beach. She enjoys it. You are also prayed for sister.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Mar 1, 2021 10:22:00 GMT -5
The covering
Psa 91:1 (1) He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Psa 91:4 (4) He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
Isa 30:1 (1) Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:
The word cover, via Psalms 91:4, means this, in the Strong's concordance:
(Strong's concordance)
(H5526 שָׂכַךְ סָכךְ sâkak śâkak saw-kak', saw-kak'
A primitive root; properly to entwine as a screen; by implication to fence in, cover over, (figuratively) protect: - cover, defence, defend, hedge in, join together, set, shut up. Total KJV occurrences: 23)
It is just like an adult bird can shelter and protect her babies, with her feathers, after a manner, God, in a spiritual sense, fully covers us, to were we are totally hedged in, totally protected, to were we are joined together to him, so that we have all sufficiency in him, he is our all in all.
It is a total and complete covering, with nothing lacking.
Abiding under his shadow, and him covering us, is were our protection, and security comes from.
He is our security in every way, for in him is salvation, and we need to continue in him, and rest in him, so we have also security in that sense as well.
Isaiah shows men seeking a covering but not by the Spirit of God, why should we seek any other covering?
The buck should stop at the scriptures.
Now Corinthians, mentions another type of covering, which it says this:
1Co 11:4 (4) Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
1Co 11:15 (15) But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
Here it shows man not needing to be covered, and woman needing to be covered, but it is in regard to the head.
A woman's long hair covers her scalp, and then some.
But other than this different type of covering, which is only for the woman, the true ultimate covering, that all men/women need is God himself, and only God, for all sufficiency in is God, security or whatever you want to call it, is in God.
We are fully covered by him, so no I do not believe that a man can cover another man in any way, for all men fall short of the glory of God, in some way or manner.
I see the covering as a complete and full covering.
And many times, Satan is subtle, and uses things so we get our complete faith away from God and gradually put it in men.
Many times, I have heard of men who talked the Lord with such and such, and the other person asked them who their covering was, and they almost never are pointing to God, but pointing to a man.
And yes leaders in the church, have some type of authority, but their authority is not of their own, they do not have sufficient authority in themselves, for their authority comes from God, God is the one that gave it to them, but many times we forget the source of the authority, and make men as the authority themselves.
God says to have faith in God, and having faith in God will lead you to obeying God's word, even being subject to one another, in a biblical manner.
We do all to the glory of God, and not to the glory of man.
Isa 42:8 (8) I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
|
|