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Post by watchful on Sept 7, 2021 5:49:41 GMT -5
Just "comparing spiritual with spiritual" as the BIBLE says to do, brother. And not minding earthly things, nor speaking we of the world. Having begun in the spirit we're not now going to be perfected by the flesh...touch not, taste not, handle not etc. We won't be saved by our own cleverness and hypervigilance. There is already a "beast system" and it has been around for a very long time, deceiving the whole world and causing all to take his mark. Nothing new under the sun...the book of Rev isn't speaking of anything new or heretofore unaddressed in holy writ. Saints and believers down through the ages have been and are ALL called to overcome it. Jesus already warned and told us what things to beware of in the end of the age. How do believers for two thousand or so years " keep the words of the prophecy of this book" if it's all a futuristic prophecy? Of course we can't....but we CAN keep and obey the gospel of our Lord, which is what the book of Revelation is all about - the gospel. But we wont' be able to begin to see that until we're willing to 'let go and let God', and start asking and relying on Him for the truth. There has not been a beast system in place requiring us to take a mark in our right hand or forehead to buy and sell. There has been a beast system of sorts, but not anything close to what we read about in Revelation. We keep the prophecy of this book by observing it, believing it, being prepared for what is written in it. Revelation states twice that these are events that will come after John received it. No matter how you spin it, you cannot get around that without being at odds with scripture. There will be a literal system in place where there will be a literal mark, most likely some kind of microchip, placed in the right hand or forehead. I have already seen a video of this system being tested. It is literal and it is coming soon to this whole world. What would you do if you were suddenly told that in order to buy or sell, you had to have a chip placed in your right hand or forehead, or that you had to get some kind of tattoo in your right hand or forehead? Would you just go along because you do not believe the beast system is literal? Seriously watchful , would you be okay with taking something like this in you hand or forehead?
You Tube is not the word of God to me, so I don't search it. Nobody knows what is in the future but God...there have been endless unprofitable speculations ever since I was a Christian and they keep changing to keep up with the latest thing that outwardly resembles the "mark of the beast". It wouldn't take much at all for the Lord to blow our society back to the stone age, or at least the pioneer age, and we have no idea what God will allow or not allow, or when.
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Post by watchful on Sept 7, 2021 6:13:16 GMT -5
I've always been baffled by the book of Revelation brother and can't go before the Lord, but follow step by step as He opens scriptures to me. I asked you to explain what you meant by that question and what scriptures you were particularly looking at, in case the Lord would help us with it at that time, but you didn't. Is searching the BIBLE for the truth and asking the LORD for understanding somehow wrong and something that needs justifying?...is good being called evil now?? While people give me their own changing speculations pulled out of their own hat and call that good! Suspicion and speculation are not gifts of the Spirit. The book of Revelation wasn't written in a vacuum, we must look at it in CONTEXT and it's context is everything else written in the bible before Rev was written. We need to let the LORD show us what He means through His word. One question I have is why so many people are only interested in a few isolated sensational bits and not interested in mining the riches of this book as a whole. watchful , I have read the Bible cover to cover approximately 20 times. I have studied the scriptures since I was 17. I have been "mining the riches of this book as a whole." When it comes to Revelation, I can see the plain meaning, because it is not that hard to understand. There are some things that are a bit of a mystery, but overall, we can see the coming sequence of events. I know that Frienduff is in the Bible constantly, and so is Ohhello. I know that Tabitha3319 is reading her Bible, and Giller studies the scriptures in depth. I have no idea where you get this idea that all anyone is interested in is "a few isolated sensational bits" of the Bible? We just do not agree with your conclusions with regard to what Revelation is meaning. What you are teaching is out of step with nearly the entire Christian church world.
The Pharisees where great studiers of the bible too brother and they were still blind to the Truth, even when He came and stood in front of their noses. We can read the same passages over and over again and still not be "seeing" them until God opens our eyes. His word is perfect, it is all perfectly harmonious and consistent from cover to cover....we need to see the book of Revelation in the LIGHT of all that was already written. His word should be the plumbline from which we compare all scripture........not a computer chip or whatever else has gotten hooked into our brains (ironically), so that anything that doesn't agree with the idea of a computer chip, or lately a vaccine, automatically gets tossed out. It's as though people are trusting in themselves over this issue, and in fear, afraid to let go of relying on themselves to trust in God to lead them to the truth. Does the word of God teach us that we need to come up with possible future scenarios of what we might or might not be tempted with in order to be prepared in advance for any potential temptation? Should I dream up a scenario that just in case someone might in the future put a gun in my hand and try to force me to shoot someone, so that I'm prepared in advance for that? How many scenarios should I invent and worry about just in case? What if I miss some possibilities and they end up happening, will I be unprepared? That's not how Jesus teaches us to FOLLOW him. And who of us by worrying about the morrow can add one year to our life anyway? If we're not trusting in the LORD to keep us and guide us and give us strength day by day, we're already sunk and UNprepared.
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Post by watchful on Sept 7, 2021 6:25:47 GMT -5
And just want to say again that some things did indeed shortly come to pass soon after John received the vision...the time was indeed at hand. But there isn't even any point in talking about that until folks are willing to re-examine things in the LIGHT of God's word and let Him bring us there step by step.
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Post by John on Sept 10, 2021 22:28:11 GMT -5
And just want to say again that some things did indeed shortly come to pass soon after John received the vision...the time was indeed at hand. But there isn't even any point in talking about that until folks are willing to re-examine things in the LIGHT of God's word and let Him bring us there step by step. The only thing that has been changing is what will be in the right hand or forehead, not that something will be there. At one time, it was thought it would be a tattoo. Now it looks more like a microchip, but one thing remains consistent. That is right hand, forehead, buy and sell. The Bible is clear about that, so anything that involves those things must be considered a threat, and likely the mark of the beast.
The Bible never says that a book cannot be stand alone. That is just something that some people created as a type of law of interpretation. Something does not have to be mentioned multiple times in the Bible to be legitimate. Revelations gives us new information that is not found in the rest of the Bible.
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Post by Giller on Sept 11, 2021 18:19:37 GMT -5
Its why one cannot answer the simple question . Of how on earth can the beast and FP be here and in the lake of fire at the same time . I stick to this question in hopes watchful will see the error of some things she has been saying . WE cant have it BOTH ways . EITHER THE FP and BEAST are burning alive in a lake of fire and thus cant be here on earth , OR ELSE THEY ARE STILL HERE ON EARTH and have not YET been cast into the lake of fire . WHICH , by the way is the same time satan gets bound in the pit and sealed up and can no longer deceive the nations . I say we stick to this question . IT has watchful baffled , but it might just help her see something she needs to see . I've always been baffled by the book of Revelation brother and can't go before the Lord, but follow step by step as He opens scriptures to me. I asked you to explain what you meant by that question and what scriptures you were particularly looking at, in case the Lord would help us with it at that time, but you didn't. Is searching the BIBLE for the truth and asking the LORD for understanding somehow wrong and something that needs justifying?...is good being called evil now?? While people give me their own changing speculations pulled out of their own hat and call that good! Suspicion and speculation are not gifts of the Spirit. The book of Revelation wasn't written in a vacuum, we must look at it in CONTEXT and it's context is everything else written in the bible before Rev was written. We need to let the LORD show us what He means through His word. One question I have is why so many people are only interested in a few isolated sensational bits and not interested in mining the riches of this book as a whole. The problem is Watchful, you ask people to take things in context, when I do not see much context in your statements, and people here, are taking things in context. You have to read each scripture in what each scripture is saying, but concerning these issues, I do not see much context in what you say. Why don't you try to be an example of context
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Post by Giller on Sept 11, 2021 18:29:59 GMT -5
Many books of the bible, mention things that are in the book of Revelation, such as certain things happening in the millennial reign are found in Isaiah, but there are some things that are exclusively mentioned in the book of Revelation, and nowhere else, such as the mark.
And even concerning the tribulation period, it mentions some of its' events in the book of Daniel, but concerning the 7 seals, trumpets and vials, it is exclusively mentioned in the book of Revelation.
A certain thing that comes to mind, is that, concerning books such as Matthew, Mark, and Luke, at times they mention certain things that speak of the same event, but one book adds more details than the other at times, even details that the other does not have.
Well the book of Revelation, adds many details, that other books do not have.
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Post by John on Sept 11, 2021 20:20:40 GMT -5
Many books of the bible, mention things that are in the book of Revelation, such as certain things happening in the millennial reign are found in Isaiah, but there are some things that are exclusively mentioned in the book of Revelation, and nowhere else, such as the mark. And even concerning the tribulation period, it mentions some of its' events in the book of Daniel, but concerning the 7 seals, trumpets and vials, it is exclusively mentioned in the book of Revelation. A certain thing that comes to mind, is that, concerning books such as Matthew, Mark, and Luke, at times they mention certain things that speak of the same event, but one book adds more details than the other at times, even details that the other does not have. Well the book of Revelation, adds many details, that other books do not have. That is true, and also, when you read the gospels, especially John's gospel, there are things mentioned that are exclusive to that book. Not everything is repeated. Everything in scripture is not repeated numerous times, and why should it be? Why isn't once enough? It does not make something any less true.
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Post by John on Sept 12, 2021 22:57:04 GMT -5
I was thinking about the fear everyone seems to have over covid19, and now this stupid mandate by Biden, trying to force everyone to be vaccinated. We have seen that people who are getting the vaccine are still getting covid19. They are trying to blame those who are not vaccinated as being the reason they are getting sick, but isn't the whole idea of a vaccine to keep you from getting sick if you come in contact with someone that is? Isn't that how they generally work? If I was to get vaccinated for something like polio, and I came in contact with someone who had polio, if the vaccine works, I would not get sick. If the vaccine does not work, I would possibly get polio. Why is this different?
Anyway, there has also been this thing about herd immunity, and the idea that a virus cannot continue to survive unless it can go from person to person. If that were true, consider this suggestion. Have a lock down for 4 weeks, but allow people to go out in a Hazmat suit if they must. There is no way to transmit the virus wearing something like that, and the incubation period is 2 weeks. After 4 weeks of doing this, it should be theoretically wiped out. You would of course have to quarantine any visitors from out of the country for 2 weeks when the enter the USA. I know this is not something that anyone will do, but given the level of fear that is out there, and the need to find a solution that will actually work, perhaps it will take something this extreme? What we are doing today is not getting the job done, and neither will mandatory vaccines where people still get sick after taking them.
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Post by watchful on Sept 13, 2021 9:00:49 GMT -5
Many books of the bible, mention things that are in the book of Revelation, such as certain things happening in the millennial reign are found in Isaiah, but there are some things that are exclusively mentioned in the book of Revelation, and nowhere else, such as the mark. And even concerning the tribulation period, it mentions some of its' events in the book of Daniel, but concerning the 7 seals, trumpets and vials, it is exclusively mentioned in the book of Revelation. A certain thing that comes to mind, is that, concerning books such as Matthew, Mark, and Luke, at times they mention certain things that speak of the same event, but one book adds more details than the other at times, even details that the other does not have. Well the book of Revelation, adds many details, that other books do not have. That is true, and also, when you read the gospels, especially John's gospel, there are things mentioned that are exclusive to that book. Not everything is repeated. Everything in scripture is not repeated numerous times, and why should it be? Why isn't once enough? It does not make something any less true.
The bible itself teaches that we need more than one witness to establish the truth of a thing. And there is mention also of the "whole counsel of God". I wonder if anyone here has looked up examples and meanings of "mark" and "seal/sealed" in the bible, or "right hand", or "forehead", etc. We sometimes need to do a little digging in order to find the treasure. Or "overcome/overcomes"...it's interesting that John is the only apostle that really talks about it much. Anyway, thank you all for the discussion. I don't understand it all by any means, but am at least on the trail and keep learning more as I go along.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 13, 2021 9:41:58 GMT -5
I was thinking about the fear everyone seems to have over covid19, and now this stupid mandate by Biden, trying to force everyone to be vaccinated. We have seen that people who are getting the vaccine are still getting covid19. They are trying to blame those who are not vaccinated as being the reason they are getting sick, but isn't the whole idea of a vaccine to keep you from getting sick if you come in contact with someone that is? Isn't that how they generally work? If I was to get vaccinated for something like polio, and I came in contact with someone who had polio, if the vaccine works, I would not get sick. If the vaccine does not work, I would possibly get polio. Why is this different?
Anyway, there has also been this thing about herd immunity, and the idea that a virus cannot continue to survive unless it can go from person to person. If that were true, consider this suggestion. Have a lock down for 4 weeks, but allow people to go out in a Hazmat suit if they must. There is no way to transmit the virus wearing something like that, and the incubation period is 2 weeks. After 4 weeks of doing this, it should be theoretically wiped out. You would of course have to quarantine any visitors from out of the country for 2 weeks when the enter the USA. I know this is not something that anyone will do, but given the level of fear that is out there, and the need to find a solution that will actually work, perhaps it will take something this extreme? What we are doing today is not getting the job done, and neither will mandatory vaccines where people still get sick after taking them.
The reason they do as they do . Always remember spiritual wickedness rules and reigns in the hearts of those who deny Christ . This is an AGENDA MY FRIEND . And it comes not by flesh and blood but by the dragon himself , WHO is working through flesh and blood to get the beast system SET UP . They aint following GOD my friend . How can folks that cling to baby killing and promote all sorts of sins , BE FOLLOWING JESUS . Cause the last time i checked i used to do much sin , That was before the grace of GOD appeared . I used to love that evil , that is BEFORE the GRACE OF GOD APPEARED . Any true lamb has within them the indwelling HOLY GHOST . And if the SPIRIT that is in a man is not producing fruits of righteousness unto Holiness , THEN IT SURE AINT THE HOLY SPIRIT . Cause the HOLY SPIRIT , well ITS HOLY and it would produce GOOD FRUIT not wicked fruit . BY THIER FRUITS YE SHALL INDEED KNOW THEM . Many can lip JESUS so did I , yet many love that sin and many are under the influence of the dragon and know it not .
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Post by John on Sept 13, 2021 19:31:17 GMT -5
That is true, and also, when you read the gospels, especially John's gospel, there are things mentioned that are exclusive to that book. Not everything is repeated. Everything in scripture is not repeated numerous times, and why should it be? Why isn't once enough? It does not make something any less true.
The bible itself teaches that we need more than one witness to establish the truth of a thing. And there is mention also of the "whole counsel of God". I wonder if anyone here has looked up examples and meanings of "mark" and "seal/sealed" in the bible, or "right hand", or "forehead", etc. We sometimes need to do a little digging in order to find the treasure. Or "overcome/overcomes"...it's interesting that John is the only apostle that really talks about it much. Anyway, thank you all for the discussion. I don't understand it all by any means, but am at least on the trail and keep learning more as I go along. When the Bible speaks of needing more than one witness to establish something, it is referring to a crime. You needed more than one witness to convict. There is no place that states we need more than one scripture. We do seek the whole counsel of the Word of God by reading the entire Bible and considering the entire Bible, but again, that does not mean something cannot stand alone.
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Post by John on Sept 13, 2021 19:35:41 GMT -5
I was thinking about the fear everyone seems to have over covid19, and now this stupid mandate by Biden, trying to force everyone to be vaccinated. We have seen that people who are getting the vaccine are still getting covid19. They are trying to blame those who are not vaccinated as being the reason they are getting sick, but isn't the whole idea of a vaccine to keep you from getting sick if you come in contact with someone that is? Isn't that how they generally work? If I was to get vaccinated for something like polio, and I came in contact with someone who had polio, if the vaccine works, I would not get sick. If the vaccine does not work, I would possibly get polio. Why is this different?
Anyway, there has also been this thing about herd immunity, and the idea that a virus cannot continue to survive unless it can go from person to person. If that were true, consider this suggestion. Have a lock down for 4 weeks, but allow people to go out in a Hazmat suit if they must. There is no way to transmit the virus wearing something like that, and the incubation period is 2 weeks. After 4 weeks of doing this, it should be theoretically wiped out. You would of course have to quarantine any visitors from out of the country for 2 weeks when the enter the USA. I know this is not something that anyone will do, but given the level of fear that is out there, and the need to find a solution that will actually work, perhaps it will take something this extreme? What we are doing today is not getting the job done, and neither will mandatory vaccines where people still get sick after taking them.
The reason they do as they do . Always remember spiritual wickedness rules and reigns in the hearts of those who deny Christ . This is an AGENDA MY FRIEND . And it comes not by flesh and blood but by the dragon himself , WHO is working through flesh and blood to get the beast system SET UP . They aint following GOD my friend . How can folks that cling to baby killing and promote all sorts of sins , BE FOLLOWING JESUS . Cause the last time i checked i used to do much sin , That was before the grace of GOD appeared . I used to love that evil , that is BEFORE the GRACE OF GOD APPEARED . Any true lamb has within them the indwelling HOLY GHOST . And if the SPIRIT that is in a man is not producing fruits of righteousness unto Holiness , THEN IT SURE AINT THE HOLY SPIRIT . Cause the HOLY SPIRIT , well ITS HOLY and it would produce GOOD FRUIT not wicked fruit . BY THIER FRUITS YE SHALL INDEED KNOW THEM . Many can lip JESUS so did I , yet many love that sin and many are under the influence of the dragon and know it not .
There are all kinds of voices out there saying different things about the vaccine and the spread of covid19. There is no way to determine who is telling the truth, but there is no question that trying to force people to get vaccinated against their will or they cannot work is a power play, and it comes across to me as a test run to see how compliant people will be. When the mark of the beast comes along, you will not be able to buy or sell without some kind of mark being forced on you. I do not care how far they take things, I refuse to comply. I will do what I have to survive, and if it means I will be out of work for a time, so be it. I am not going to put up with this kind of tyranny.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Sept 13, 2021 19:38:35 GMT -5
There are all kinds of voices out there saying different things about the vaccine and the spread of covid19. There is no way to determine who is telling the truth, but there is no question that trying to force people to get vaccinated against their will or they cannot work is a power play, and it comes across to me as a test run to see how compliant people will be. When the mark of the beast comes along, you will not be able to buy or sell without some kind of mark being forced on you. I do not care how far they take things, I refuse to comply. I will do what I have to survive, and if it means I will be out of work for a time, so be it. I am not going to put up with this kind of tyranny.
The other day, we were talking about how far we'd be willing to go to not take the vaccine.
If E wanted to quit his job to not take the vaccine, Id support him.
We have to stand up at some point to get our freedom to not be vaccinated and not wear masks back.
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Post by John on Sept 13, 2021 20:06:33 GMT -5
There are all kinds of voices out there saying different things about the vaccine and the spread of covid19. There is no way to determine who is telling the truth, but there is no question that trying to force people to get vaccinated against their will or they cannot work is a power play, and it comes across to me as a test run to see how compliant people will be. When the mark of the beast comes along, you will not be able to buy or sell without some kind of mark being forced on you. I do not care how far they take things, I refuse to comply. I will do what I have to survive, and if it means I will be out of work for a time, so be it. I am not going to put up with this kind of tyranny.
The other day, we were talking about how far we'd be willing to go to not take the vaccine.
If E wanted to quit his job to not take the vaccine, Id support him.
We have to stand up at some point to get our freedom to not be vaccinated and not wear masks back.
Initially, it appears we would be forced to take a covid19 test weekly. While I find this stupid, I would do that. If this is taken to the next step, and companies with over 100 employees must require all workers to be vaccinated, and it was obvious this would not be overturned, I would quit and move to someplace with less than 100 employees or buy my own truck or cargo van and work that way. If that is not possible, then the next thing I would do is spend my time out of work generating opposition to the vaccines and the administration and to try to get states to leave the union. I would have plenty of hours to do it. Let's hope that is not necessary.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 13, 2021 20:09:25 GMT -5
There are all kinds of voices out there saying different things about the vaccine and the spread of covid19. There is no way to determine who is telling the truth, but there is no question that trying to force people to get vaccinated against their will or they cannot work is a power play, and it comes across to me as a test run to see how compliant people will be. When the mark of the beast comes along, you will not be able to buy or sell without some kind of mark being forced on you. I do not care how far they take things, I refuse to comply. I will do what I have to survive, and if it means I will be out of work for a time, so be it. I am not going to put up with this kind of tyranny.
The other day, we were talking about how far we'd be willing to go to not take the vaccine.
If E wanted to quit his job to not take the vaccine, Id support him.
We have to stand up at some point to get our freedom to not be vaccinated and not wear masks back.
www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/313349This is an agenda . And it looks like JERUSALEM , ISRAEL is gonna lead the beast system into full all out power . israel does and the D TEN Follows . They are quite serious about this .
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