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Post by John on Mar 11, 2020 15:05:57 GMT -5
It was an extreme situation where she would suffer certain death with her people if she did not go before the King, or risk death, but have a hope of being saved to go before him. She really had nothing to lose. It is like the starving lepers that went into the enemy camp to beg for food. What was the worst that could happen, death? It was certain death to do nothing. I know the story well. It did still require her to overcome fear of instant death.
Yes, but it's more than just a recitation of facts and a history lesson.....these are similitudes/parables of spiritual things. Same with the Israelites and Joshua. I'm not sure why some have a problem with growing...it's a very scriptural concept. If Esther hadn't grown up into her role to be able to be an intercessor for her people, God would have rejected her and chosen others for the job. But the king giving her up to half of his kingdom comes to mind, oh my! Inheritance of the kingdom! Fear not little flock, it is the father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom....now why did he say that? Thank you Jesus, it just keeps getting better and better. Well, let's keep digging brother, praise the Lord. Here is the thing. I am not sure why some people think they are super spiritual and know more than everyone else when they do not. Yes, there are sometimes hidden spiritual meanings in stories in the Bible that lie beyond the surface, but people can overlook the plain and obvious truth to create things that just are not there. None of this has any correlation to the scripture that tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
What you are saying about Esther is nothing more than Mordecai suggested would happen to Esther if she failed to go before the King on behalf of Israel. Esther 4:14, he said, "For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but thou and thy father's house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?" Anyone that has read Esther knows that he told Esther that. There is nothing in this story that indicates that his willingness to grant her request up to half of the kingdom has anything to do with our inheritance in God's Kingdom. Herod offered the same thing to the daughter of Herodias, before she asked of him the head of John the Baptist. There is no spiritual significance to that with regard to our spiritual inheritance. Why would there be regarding a promise to Esther?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 15:21:55 GMT -5
Didn't expect that you would be resisting and arguing against the title of your own thread brother...I'm the one agreeing with it and showing it in scripture. Well I'm done here, weary of arguments. Have a nice day.
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Post by John on Mar 11, 2020 15:32:07 GMT -5
Didn't expect that you would be resisting and arguing against the title of your own thread brother...I'm the one agreeing with it and showing it in scripture. Well I'm done here, weary of arguments. Have a nice day. Agreeing with a title is not agreeing with what I said. 3 people agreed with me, and you were not one of them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2020 13:10:13 GMT -5
Didn't expect that you would be resisting and arguing against the title of your own thread brother...I'm the one agreeing with it and showing it in scripture. Well I'm done here, weary of arguments. Have a nice day. Agreeing with a title is not agreeing with what I said. 3 people agreed with me, and you were not one of them.
I agree that there are many Christians living as under the Law, and didn't disagree with your post entirely....just that Paul could not have been talking about someone who was lost and not born again when it was a case of "no longer I who sin, but sin dwelling in me"...that HAS to be speaking of someone who knows the Lord, whose sins are not imputed to them. But that is why I could not in all honesty give the OP a thumbs up, and why I believe Paul is talking about sanctification in those following passages, rather than being born again......and sanctification is what walking in the Spirit and being "spiritual" is all about.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2020 16:32:01 GMT -5
Had another read of it just in case, but it still seems clear that Paul was speaking to BELIEVERS and instructing them not to serve God as if they were under Law.....just like we see many Christians serving God that way, nothing new under the sun. He wasn't instructing lost souls on being born again, but was talking to those who were already born again on serving and walking in the Spirit, and talking about not being carnally minded and how we have not received a spirit of bondage/slavery again to fear.
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Post by John on Mar 12, 2020 18:17:09 GMT -5
Agreeing with a title is not agreeing with what I said. 3 people agreed with me, and you were not one of them.
I agree that there are many Christians living as under the Law, and didn't disagree with your post entirely....just that Paul could not have been talking about someone who was lost and not born again when it was a case of "no longer I who sin, but sin dwelling in me"...that HAS to be speaking of someone who knows the Lord, whose sins are not imputed to them. But that is why I could not in all honesty give the OP a thumbs up, and why I believe Paul is talking about sanctification in those following passages, rather than being born again......and sanctification is what walking in the Spirit and being "spiritual" is all about. I am okay with you not fully agreeing with me about my conclusions. I am not sure how strongly I would believe I was right if the Lord had not revealed it to me, and I never, and I mean never, want to have people accept anything I say based on my saying God showed it to me, if they do not see it matching up with scripture. Do not worry about that, and if you do not agree with something, do not give it a thumbs up. No issues there sister.
While we are being honest with each other, I have a concern about something you said, and that you do in other places. That is where you say things like, "I do not know why people refuse to grow," or you come across like you have this deep, spiritual meaning, only you can see because you are so spiritual. I feel pride every time I read those posts. I say this only out of concern, and because those kind of things come across offensive to the readers. Just like I do not expect you to take something I say as true, simply because I say God showed it to me, nobody is going to accept something you say, simply because you claim you are spiritual, and others are carnal. Please take this in the spirit it was intended to be taken, not as an attack, and I do take what you said as constructive criticism. I will get back to you on the specifics of what you said in another post. God bless.
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Post by John on Mar 12, 2020 18:36:26 GMT -5
Had another read of it just in case, but it still seems clear that Paul was speaking to BELIEVERS and instructing them not to serve God as if they were under Law.....just like we see many Christians serving God that way, nothing new under the sun. He wasn't instructing lost souls on being born again, but was talking to those who were already born again on serving and walking in the Spirit, and talking about not being carnally minded and how we have not received a spirit of bondage/slavery again to fear. I believe that Paul is speaking of himself before he became a Christian in Romans, prior to chapter 8. He is making comparisons. He is telling them about how he, and others still under the law, sincerely desired to obey it. They loved the law, but they found that they were powerless to keep it. He is speaking as though this is his state when he is writing, but he is not. That is what caused me issues understanding this book for literally decades. Romans made no sense to me till I saw this, and not only did this open up Romans to me, but other books like Galatians. You mention sin being imputed. Lets look at what the scripture actually says. Romans 5:13-14
For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
He is speaking of how God's righteous standards were always the same, even before the law of Moses was given, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. He means all those many ordinances that would be given to Israel. There were clearly things that man understood was wrong in the sight of God before the law of Moses. Adam was given one law, and he broke it. Clearly, God gave Cain a conscience to know murder was wrong, or it would not have been held against him. Still, the law of Moses, with it hundreds of ordinances was not enforced till it was given to the people.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift of grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. Romans 5:15-16
Of course Paul is speaking of the New Covenant in saying this, just as he was speaking of life between Adam and the law being given just prior to it. He is making a comparison. He is saying that even those who did not commit the same offense Adam did suffered death as a result of his sin. Just as death came through Adam, life would come through Jesus Christ. That has nothing to do with what I am saying about the supposed "Christian struggle" in Romans chapter 7, which is not about a Christian struggle at all. It is speaking of Paul's life as a Pharisee. That about sin not being imputed was clearly speaking of the period of time between Adam and Moses. That is why it said, "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 8:02:50 GMT -5
hmmm...so that's why he was telling BELIEVERS not to be slaves AGAIN to fear? I agree he was using his own past struggle as an example to show the purpose of the Law, and the insufficiency of serving God as if under Law (while not pointing a finger at his audience). But it IS a "Christian struggle" for those many believers who serve God that way instead of in the new way of the Spirit, when they have not really yet learned to. But if we don't know our lack and need, we will not seek and reach for what we need, that is the danger. The Lord has faithfully been trying to show me these things in various ways for a long time. I only wish I were faster to hear and see. But now thankfully I understand....it has all finally percolated through and broken through the mist out into clarity, thanks be to God. You know what, I think it is like walking on water and that is what Jesus was trying to show with that, as well. Help us Lord.
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Post by John on Mar 14, 2020 11:35:12 GMT -5
hmmm...so that's why he was telling BELIEVERS not to be slaves AGAIN to fear? I agree he was using his own past struggle as an example to show the purpose of the Law, and the insufficiency of serving God as if under Law (while not pointing a finger at his audience). But it IS a "Christian struggle" for those many believers who serve God that way instead of in the new way of the Spirit, when they have not really yet learned to. But if we don't know our lack and need, we will not seek and reach for what we need, that is the danger. The Lord has faithfully been trying to show me these things in various ways for a long time. I only wish I were faster to hear and see. But now thankfully I understand....it has all finally percolated through and broken through the mist out into clarity, thanks be to God. You know what, I think it is like walking on water and that is what Jesus was trying to show with that, as well. Help us Lord. What we must be careful about is that we do not defend failing to obey the teachings of the Bible by claiming we do not have to because we are walking in the Spirit. God is not going to lead us to do things contrary to scripture. A person can be just as deceived by claiming to serve in the "new way of the Spirit," when they are only living their life doing what is right in their own eyes.
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