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Post by Rejoice on Mar 9, 2020 11:11:24 GMT -5
At the end of 2 Samuel, it says God moved David to count the people because he was mad at them. David did this and God sent a plague. Why was God mad in the first place and why was counting the people wrong? Why plague the people when David ordered them to be counted?
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Post by Julie on Mar 9, 2020 15:15:30 GMT -5
Hello old friend. How are you doing? I think the issue was pride, but I'll leave it to the theologians to answer for sure. How is your family?
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Post by Rejoice on Mar 10, 2020 16:29:52 GMT -5
They are doing very well. Thanks for asking. How have you been getting along? I guess everyone here got busy or missed my question. It does look like pride might have something to do with it, but it looks like God enticed David to take the count and punished the people when he did. Maybe I'm taking it wrong? The Bible has a lot of interesting stories. Have you been reading along?
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Post by John on Mar 10, 2020 17:50:02 GMT -5
They are doing very well. Thanks for asking. How have you been getting along? I guess everyone here got busy or missed my question. It does look like pride might have something to do with it, but it looks like God enticed David to take the count and punished the people when he did. Maybe I'm taking it wrong? The Bible has a lot of interesting stories. Have you been reading along? Hello Rejoice. I have been busy, and just did not see this thread. I appreciate you asking questions, and that you are still reading along with us. That story is in 2 Samuel 24. It is interesting the way the first verse is worded. It does appear like the LORD was angry with Israel over something, and he led David to call for a census. The word used here in the KJV Bible is "moved." There are several Hebrew words translated to moved in the Old Testament, but in this case, it is the word cuwth, and it means to prick, stimulate, seduce, entice, move, persuade, provoke, remove, set on, stir up, take away. So God was angry with Israel, and sought an occasion against them, and he enticed David to call for a census.
We are not told why God was angry with Israel to begin with. It only says God's anger was kindled against them. David is stirred up to number the people. Clearly, it is because of pride in his heart, wanting to know what a large number of people he was reigning over, and how many were available for military service. I agree with Julie that the sin in taking this census was pride. God had called for a census at another time, but this was King David acting on his own. David committed the sin, so you are wondering why God punished the people rather than David?
David was given 3 choices of punishment for his transgression.
1. 7 years of famine throughout Israel 2. 3 months of fleeing before his enemies 3. 3 days of pestilence.
David chose the 3 days of pestilence. There was not one choice here that did not punish the people in some way. This is one of those instances where we are really not given all the answers. All we know is that God was already angry with the people of Israel before David ordered the people counted. We do not know what for. We also know there is another story, which we have not gotten to yet in reading through the Bible together, where God uses lying spirits to entice King Ahab to go into a battle and be killed. This does show us a different side of God than what most tell us about. We see how God does get angry, and can severely punish people. This did not end with the New Covenant. Look at Ananias and Sapphira in the book of Acts.
I would love to be able to give you the answers to your questions, but this is just one of those times where God simply does not tell us everything. Perhaps it all had to do with pride? That makes the most sense to me. Perhaps the people had become lifted up in pride, along with King David, and God used that prideful attitude to provoke David to number the people? The more I think about it, the more that makes sense. God is already angry. It stands to reason that what David did was in relation to what God was already mad about. They had probably had some major military victories and started trusting in self, so God humbled them? That is just me reasoning this out as I write, so I certainly could be wrong, but if I was to guess, that is what I suspect is probably true.
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Post by John on Mar 10, 2020 17:52:08 GMT -5
Keep bringing those difficult questions. Even if I have trouble answering them, it causes me to have to think about it and look into it. That is how we learn. Keep on with the Bible reading. You will develop a love for God's Word.
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Post by joseph on Dec 1, 2020 16:01:09 GMT -5
At the end of 2 Samuel, it says God moved David to count the people because he was mad at them. David did this and God sent a plague. Why was God mad in the first place and why was counting the people wrong? Why plague the people when David ordered them to be counted? All subject to the Father's Appraisal , and testing by also all Scripture, each point, every point, all together, and every motive:
About 1297 words describing several Scriptural insights (again, all to be proven true by testing before accepting) >>>
"David’s Sin in Numbering the People Scripture Passage: 2 Samuel 24:1-25
"INTRODUCTION: This lesson demonstrates how God looks on pride in His servants and shows the humility He requires. This chapter, when compared with its parallel passage in 1 Chronicles 21:1-30 , raises many questions. However, the Bible-believing student approaches these questions with faith that God’s word is always true and that any discrepancy is with our understanding and not with the scripture. He also trusts that the questions that make him study contain within them a special blessing from God.
"THE NUMBERING OF THE PEOPLE (2 Samuel 24:1-9 ) The Temptation to Number the People (2 Samuel 24:1 ) The source of the temptation Threefold The Lord Satan (1 Chronicles 21:1 ) David Explanation God never tempts anyone to do evil (James 1:13 ). Yet, God will remove His protective hedge about us and allow the Devil to tempt us (Job 1:10-12 ). Compare these verses and consider the source of death (1 Samuel 2:6 with Hebrews 2:14 ). The substance of the temptation: to number Israel and Judah The sin of the temptation: why was this such a great sin? David did not take up the required offering (Exodus 30:12-16 ). David sinned in the pride of having a great army. He was counting soldiers (2 Samuel 24:9 ). He took his eyes off the Lord and put them on his own resources (2 Samuel 24:3 ; 1 Chronicles 21:3 ). The entire purpose of the numbering was so that David might know the number of the people (2 Samuel 24:2 ). Even Joab saw the wickedness of this act (1 Chronicles 21:3 , 6). The Command to Number the People (2 Samuel 24:2 ) Given to Joab the captain To be done from Dan to Beersheba Given for selfish reasons – “that ‘I’ may know the number” The Protest of Joab against the Act (2 Samuel 24:3 ) May the Lord bless David a hundredfold. But to seek to know the number is wicked. The Obedience of Joab to the King (2 Samuel 24:4-7 ) David’s word prevailed against Joab’s word (2 Samuel 24:4 ). Joab went to number the people (2 Samuel 24:4 ). The people were numbered throughout the land (2 Samuel 24:5-7 ). The Completion of the Numbering (2 Samuel 24:8-9 ) ... ... ... ... ... "
======================================================================= (I think it took nine months to 'complete' the numbering.... )
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