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Post by Tabitha3319 on Mar 14, 2020 20:32:45 GMT -5
1 Peter 3:1-6 King James Version (KJV) 3 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Question: is Sarah being honored for submitting to Abraham in the case of going to Pharoah to be his wife? Was it her fearless trust in God in that situation?
Or is that an exception?
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Mar 14, 2020 23:04:37 GMT -5
i am not sure if its an exception or an honoring, i will need to search out more before i give an answer... however, i saw something worth mentioning.
6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
in this verse pay attention to where it says " as long as ye do well " here is more evidence that osas is false.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 6:33:29 GMT -5
1 Peter 3:1-6 King James Version (KJV) 3 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Question: is Sarah being honored for submitting to Abraham in the case of going to Pharoah to be his wife? Was it her fearless trust in God in that situation?
Or is that an exception? I am not sure Sarah's submission to Abraham applies in this situation. Abraham mis-led or lied to Pharaoh in giving him the impression that Sarah was his sister not his wife. Neither Abraham nor Sarah had any choice in what the king did after that.....he was the king with power to do as he pleased. It's not a case that Abraham was the one who told Sarah to go with that Pharaoh and she obeyed. Also I just want to add that we need to be careful we don't misinterpret Sarah calling Abraham lord as meaning that he had absolute unlimited authority over her like God does. Calling him lord does not mean in the same sense that we call God our Lord. Our husband is not to be our god/idol. We as women are still accountable to and worship only the one true God. But we are submissive to our husband and acknowledge and respect his authority and leadership role for the Lord's sake and in obedience to HIM. Something like where it says "whatsoever you do, do AS unto the Lord". That doesn't mean for example that your boss at work has absolute unlimited authority over you, it only means you do your work and respect your boss' authority and submit to him/her AS unto the Lord.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Mar 15, 2020 6:41:24 GMT -5
1 Peter 3:1-6 King James Version (KJV) 3 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Question: is Sarah being honored for submitting to Abraham in the case of going to Pharoah to be his wife? Was it her fearless trust in God in that situation?
Or is that an exception? I am not sure Sarah's submission to Abraham applies in this situation. Abraham mis-led or lied to Pharaoh in giving him the impression that Sarah was his sister not his wife. Neither Abraham nor Sarah had any choice in what the king did after that.....he was the king with power to do as he pleased. It's not a case that Abraham was the one who told Sarah to go with that Pharaoh and she obeyed. Also I just want to add that we need to be careful we don't misinterpret Sarah calling Abraham lord as meaning that he had absolute unlimited authority over her like God does. Calling him lord does not mean in the same sense that we call God our Lord. Our husband is not to be our god/idol. We as women are still accountable to and worship only the one true God. But we are submissive to our husband and acknowledge and respect his authority and leadership role for the Lord's sake and in obedience to HIM. Something like where it says "whatsoever you do, do AS unto the Lord". That doesn't mean for example that your boss at work has absolute unlimited authority over you, it only means you do your work and respect your boss' authority and submit to him/her AS unto the Lord. So maybe it's not the fact that she was submitting to sin (It was Abraham who lied and said Sarah was only his sister) but the fact that she trusted God in a tough situation. Sarah did a lot of messed up things, but her fearlessness and submission are the things being commended in this passage. I agree that a husband's authority is only through Christ and isn't absolute.
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Post by joseph on Mar 15, 2020 7:32:03 GMT -5
Did Yahweh, ever, anywhere, even suggest Yahweh disapproved of Abraham ? Did Yahweh ever, anywhere at any time, even suggest Abraham was in any trouble for what Abraham told Pharaoh ? Ever?
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Post by joseph on Mar 15, 2020 7:35:26 GMT -5
So maybe it's not the fact that she was submitting to sin (It was Abraham who lied and said Sarah was only his sister) but the fact that she trusted God in a tough situation. Sarah did a lot of messed up things, but her fearlessness and submission are the things being commended in this passage. I agree that a husband's authority is only through Christ and isn't absolute. Where does Yahweh ever show Sarah "submitting to sin" ? .... Further, did Yahweh reveal ever, anywhere, He disapproved of Abraham ?
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Post by joseph on Mar 15, 2020 7:36:46 GMT -5
(I don't know how or why those emojies presented... I put question marks, not emojies, in the text of the post.)
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Mar 15, 2020 7:46:17 GMT -5
So maybe it's not the fact that she was submitting to sin (It was Abraham who lied and said Sarah was only his sister) but the fact that she trusted God in a tough situation. Sarah did a lot of messed up things, but her fearlessness and submission are the things being commended in this passage. I agree that a husband's authority is only through Christ and isn't absolute. Where does Yahweh ever show Sarah "submitting to sin" ? .... Further, did Yahweh reveal ever, anywhere, He disapproved of Abraham ? It doesn't. That's what I was trying to say. And no. I suppose not explicitly?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 9:52:19 GMT -5
Did Yahweh, ever, anywhere, even suggest Yahweh disapproved of Abraham ? Did Yahweh ever, anywhere at any time, even suggest Abraham was in any trouble for what Abraham told Pharaoh ? Ever? Yes, I think you're right....it's not that he lied per se....I needed to refresh my memory on that passage. But what does that have to do with the point of this conversation?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 9:56:47 GMT -5
I am not sure Sarah's submission to Abraham applies in this situation. Abraham mis-led or lied to Pharaoh in giving him the impression that Sarah was his sister not his wife. Neither Abraham nor Sarah had any choice in what the king did after that.....he was the king with power to do as he pleased. It's not a case that Abraham was the one who told Sarah to go with that Pharaoh and she obeyed. Also I just want to add that we need to be careful we don't misinterpret Sarah calling Abraham lord as meaning that he had absolute unlimited authority over her like God does. Calling him lord does not mean in the same sense that we call God our Lord. Our husband is not to be our god/idol. We as women are still accountable to and worship only the one true God. But we are submissive to our husband and acknowledge and respect his authority and leadership role for the Lord's sake and in obedience to HIM. Something like where it says "whatsoever you do, do AS unto the Lord". That doesn't mean for example that your boss at work has absolute unlimited authority over you, it only means you do your work and respect your boss' authority and submit to him/her AS unto the Lord. So maybe it's not the fact that she was submitting to sin (It was Abraham who lied and said Sarah was only his sister) but the fact that she trusted God in a tough situation. Sarah did a lot of messed up things, but her fearlessness and submission are the things being commended in this passage. I agree that a husband's authority is only through Christ and isn't absolute. I'm not sure.....it might be God commended her for her Godliness and submission to Abraham generally....to begin with she followed Abraham from the start, leaving her home and family to go wander off to parts unknown. But yes as you're saying, we don't see her giving way to fear in that other situation with that king either.
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Post by frienduff on Mar 15, 2020 10:18:46 GMT -5
Did Yahweh, ever, anywhere, even suggest Yahweh disapproved of Abraham ? Did Yahweh ever, anywhere at any time, even suggest Abraham was in any trouble for what Abraham told Pharaoh ? Ever? Yes, I think you're right....it's not that he lied per se....I needed to refresh my memory on that passage. But what does that have to do with the point of this conversation? Correct he did not lie . he even told pharoah , And she is my sister . The only thing abraham did was withhold the fact she was HIS WIFE . but he actually told the truth when he said she is my sister .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 10:42:10 GMT -5
Yes, I think you're right....it's not that he lied per se....I needed to refresh my memory on that passage. But what does that have to do with the point of this conversation? Correct he did not lie . he even told pharoah , And she is my sister . The only thing abraham did was withhold the fact she was HIS WIFE . but he actually told the truth when he said she is my sister . Yes...I have this notion that he was in fear that the king would kill him to take his wife since she was beautiful...I think that is in the bible in another place, but can't remember for sure. But yes he didn't lie as such, but was trying to be "wise" in a potentially sticky situation...the impression I have is that and it was out of fear though. He did not sin...but I do like how the bible portrays the saints of the bible as real people and not as untouchable flawless porcelain figures with halos around their heads.
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Post by John on Mar 17, 2020 4:58:52 GMT -5
1 Peter 3:1-6 King James Version (KJV) 3 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Question: is Sarah being honored for submitting to Abraham in the case of going to Pharoah to be his wife? Was it her fearless trust in God in that situation?
Or is that an exception? The word lord does mean in the sense of authority, but I do agree with those who say God's authority is higher. God is above everyone, so her husband was her lord, but not "the Lord." I do not think this is lifting up what happened in a single instance, but it is saying that Sarah's overall example in the marriage should be followed. I do not know what Sarah was supposed to do in that situation. Both her and Abraham were between a rock and a hard place. In my opinion, I think that Abraham should have been up front about who Sarah was, and trusted God, but he became fearful.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Mar 17, 2020 13:04:46 GMT -5
Sarah did nothing wrong, and technically Abraham didn't lie, but I don't think he should've put his wife in a position like that.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Mar 17, 2020 21:17:18 GMT -5
Sarah did nothing wrong, and technically Abraham didn't lie, but I don't think he should've put his wife in a position like that. been stewing on this. best i can figure is God made a promise to Abraham. that he would be the father to a whole bunch. from what we can know about Abraham from scripture... he believed God. Abraham's faith led him to do it. he knew God couldnt fulfill his promise without his Sarah.
start reading in Genesis 17. skip the chapter about Lot and keep going to chapter 20. there is something else said in there concerning Abrahams wife. I wont ruin the surprise and let you find the pearl.
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