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Post by Tabitha3319 on Mar 18, 2020 17:33:31 GMT -5
I was shocked by the emphasis on mercy and not judging by the book of James.
I used to think that people who tell Christians not to judge are simply trying to cover up their sin.
But even if they are, we are told not to speak evil of others but to deal with them in mercy. Mercy is not receiving the judgement and punishment they deserve.
I am convicted with this but it makes sense. And there have been times where I've been merciful without realizing it.
I interpret one way to live this out as focusing on the good in another person rather than the evil.
For example, when having a debate with a non-theist, if they argue with intelligence, I point it out. They may be in sin for unbelief but my job is to show mercy, not be their judge. Then, God will be merciful to me.
With other believers, this is important too.
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Post by John on Mar 18, 2020 17:39:04 GMT -5
When you were reading in James, were there any particular passages that stood out to you about judging others?
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Mar 18, 2020 17:40:23 GMT -5
When you were reading in James, were there any particular passages that stood out to you about judging others? Yes.
James 2:13 King James Version (KJV) 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
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Post by John on Mar 18, 2020 18:22:01 GMT -5
When you were reading in James, were there any particular passages that stood out to you about judging others? Yes.
James 2:13 King James Version (KJV) 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
That would definitely make me want to think twice before tossing people aside. I do not think this is telling anyone we should not judge sinful behavior, but I do think it is definitely telling us that we should be merciful to those who mess up. We should be quick to forgive, and give second chances. We should not be condemning, especially to sincere believers who just make a mistake.
I do not think this is saying we are not to judge sin. We need to stand against sinful behavior, like adultery and murder, but we need to remember that Jesus forgave us of a huge amount of sins. He showed us mercy when we sought it, and we should be ready to show compassion as well.
I do believe there are some people who do throw the do not judge thing around so people will not come against things they are doing, but that is not always the case. There are people who make a mistake, maybe a serious one, and we never let them live it down.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Mar 18, 2020 18:26:03 GMT -5
Yes.
James 2:13 King James Version (KJV) 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
That would definitely make me want to think twice before tossing people aside. I do not think this is telling anyone we should not judge sinful behavior, but I do think it is definitely telling us that we should be merciful to those who mess up. We should be quick to forgive, and give second chances. We should not be condemning, especially to sincere believers who just make a mistake.
I do not think this is saying we are not to judge sin. We need to stand against sinful behavior, like adultery and murder, but we need to remember that Jesus forgave us of a huge amount of sins. He showed us mercy when we sought it, and we should be ready to show compassion as well.
I do believe there are some people who do throw the do not judge thing around so people will not come against things they are doing, but that is not always the case. There are people who make a mistake, maybe a serious one, and we never let them live it down.
Right. Jesus does say judge with righteous judgement. Usually I focus on that. But sometimes, I think I need a reminder to be merciful too. I definitely can be too merciful sometimes and too judgemental in others.
I love the book of James
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Post by John on Mar 18, 2020 18:28:41 GMT -5
That would definitely make me want to think twice before tossing people aside. I do not think this is telling anyone we should not judge sinful behavior, but I do think it is definitely telling us that we should be merciful to those who mess up. We should be quick to forgive, and give second chances. We should not be condemning, especially to sincere believers who just make a mistake.
I do not think this is saying we are not to judge sin. We need to stand against sinful behavior, like adultery and murder, but we need to remember that Jesus forgave us of a huge amount of sins. He showed us mercy when we sought it, and we should be ready to show compassion as well.
I do believe there are some people who do throw the do not judge thing around so people will not come against things they are doing, but that is not always the case. There are people who make a mistake, maybe a serious one, and we never let them live it down.
Right. Jesus does say judge with righteous judgement. Usually I focus on that. But sometimes, I think I need a reminder to be merciful too. I definitely can be too merciful sometimes and too judgemental in others.
I love the book of James Jesus said in Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
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Post by frienduff on Mar 18, 2020 18:29:36 GMT -5
Yes.
James 2:13 King James Version (KJV) 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
That would definitely make me want to think twice before tossing people aside. I do not think this is telling anyone we should not judge sinful behavior, but I do think it is definitely telling us that we should be merciful to those who mess up. We should be quick to forgive, and give second chances. We should not be condemning, especially to sincere believers who just make a mistake.
I do not think this is saying we are not to judge sin. We need to stand against sinful behavior, like adultery and murder, but we need to remember that Jesus forgave us of a huge amount of sins. He showed us mercy when we sought it, and we should be ready to show compassion as well.
I do believe there are some people who do throw the do not judge thing around so people will not come against things they are doing, but that is not always the case. There are people who make a mistake, maybe a serious one, and we never let them live it down.
YOUR RIGHT BUTERO . cause look at what else james says , YE ADULTERERS and ADULTERESSES , do ye NOT KNOW .....................YOU ARE RIGHT . MERCY involves TO ALSO WARN FOLKS of thier sin and error and do all to lead them to repent of it . Folks forget what all mercy entails . paul , james , john , JESUS , they never took sin lightly , THEY REBUKED HUGE . we should too . AND the keyis , IF ONE REPENTS YOU WELCOME THEM BACK . BUT TO SIT and just get along and not judge , JESUS NOR ANY OF THEM ever ONCE taught that mindset . WE better be on gaurd . we better be on guard is all i can say . Let the warners only increase their warnings , so long as the desire from the heart is GOOD for the people , LET THEM WARN AWAY . SIN IS DEADLY it will KILL A SOUL and harden a heart DEAD FAST .
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Post by frienduff on Mar 18, 2020 18:31:27 GMT -5
Right. Jesus does say judge with righteous judgement. Usually I focus on that. But sometimes, I think I need a reminder to be merciful too. I definitely can be too merciful sometimes and too judgemental in others.
I love the book of James Jesus said in Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.JESUS was the most meciful of all that ever lived and walked . FATHER FORGIVE THEM HE SAID . So did stephen . YET LOOK at how fast they warned ANYONE in ANY error , YOU REPENT OR ELSE .
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Post by John on Mar 18, 2020 18:34:40 GMT -5
That would definitely make me want to think twice before tossing people aside. I do not think this is telling anyone we should not judge sinful behavior, but I do think it is definitely telling us that we should be merciful to those who mess up. We should be quick to forgive, and give second chances. We should not be condemning, especially to sincere believers who just make a mistake.
I do not think this is saying we are not to judge sin. We need to stand against sinful behavior, like adultery and murder, but we need to remember that Jesus forgave us of a huge amount of sins. He showed us mercy when we sought it, and we should be ready to show compassion as well.
I do believe there are some people who do throw the do not judge thing around so people will not come against things they are doing, but that is not always the case. There are people who make a mistake, maybe a serious one, and we never let them live it down.
YOUR RIGHT BUTERO . cause look at what else james says , YE ADULTERERS and ADULTERESSES , do ye NOT KNOW .....................YOU ARE RIGHT . MERCY involves TO ALSO WARN FOLKS of thier sin and error and do all to lead them to repent of it . Folks forget what all mercy entails . paul , james , john , JESUS , they never took sin lightly , THEY REBUKED HUGE . we should too . AND the keyis , IF ONE REPENTS YOU WELCOME THEM BACK . BUT TO SIT and just get along and not judge , JESUS NOR ANY OF THEM ever ONCE taught that mindset . WE better be on gaurd . we better be on guard is all i can say . Let the warners only increase their warnings , so long as the desire from the heart is GOOD for the people , LET THEM WARN AWAY . SIN IS DEADLY it will KILL A SOUL and harden a heart DEAD FAST . We can be unbalanced on both sides. We can be taking the position that we cannot judge any behavior to be wrong or we can take the position that if someone messes up, that is it. We have marked them and will never forgive or trust them again. I think that even the Apostle Paul was a bit too harsh on John Mark, but that man eventually redeemed himself. I can understand that. Missionary work is dangerous today, but it was very dangerous when Paul was traveling around, and he wanted to have companions that would not leave half way through the journey. Still, he probably should have given him a second chance. Stand against wrong doing, but be quick to forgive and show compassion.
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Post by Apostle's Instructions on Mar 19, 2020 3:28:23 GMT -5
MY brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. James 2:1-13
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Post by Apostle's Instructions on Mar 19, 2020 3:30:52 GMT -5
YOUR RIGHT BUTERO . cause look at what else james says , YE ADULTERERS and ADULTERESSES , do ye NOT KNOW .....................YOU ARE RIGHT . MERCY involves TO ALSO WARN FOLKS of thier sin and error and do all to lead them to repent of it . Folks forget what all mercy entails . paul , james , john , JESUS , they never took sin lightly , THEY REBUKED HUGE . we should too . AND the keyis , IF ONE REPENTS YOU WELCOME THEM BACK . BUT TO SIT and just get along and not judge , JESUS NOR ANY OF THEM ever ONCE taught that mindset . WE better be on gaurd . we better be on guard is all i can say . Let the warners only increase their warnings , so long as the desire from the heart is GOOD for the people , LET THEM WARN AWAY . SIN IS DEADLY it will KILL A SOUL and harden a heart DEAD FAST . We can be unbalanced on both sides. We can be taking the position that we cannot judge any behavior to be wrong or we can take the position that if someone messes up, that is it. We have marked them and will never forgive or trust them again. I think that even the Apostle Paul was a bit too harsh on John Mark, but that man eventually redeemed himself. I can understand that. Missionary work is dangerous today, but it was very dangerous when Paul was traveling around, and he wanted to have companions that would not leave half way through the journey. Still, he probably should have given him a second chance. Stand against wrong doing, but be quick to forgive and show compassion.
Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry. 2 Timothy 4:11
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Post by John on Mar 19, 2020 11:36:08 GMT -5
We can be unbalanced on both sides. We can be taking the position that we cannot judge any behavior to be wrong or we can take the position that if someone messes up, that is it. We have marked them and will never forgive or trust them again. I think that even the Apostle Paul was a bit too harsh on John Mark, but that man eventually redeemed himself. I can understand that. Missionary work is dangerous today, but it was very dangerous when Paul was traveling around, and he wanted to have companions that would not leave half way through the journey. Still, he probably should have given him a second chance. Stand against wrong doing, but be quick to forgive and show compassion.
Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry. 2 Timothy 4:11 In the book of Acts, we read about how Paul and Barnabas had been called of God to do missions work together.
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. Acts 13:2-3
If we move down to verse 5, notice what it says...
And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.
This is John Mark. Mark was his surname. During the trip, if you move down to Acts 13:13...
Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem.
You do not hear anything more about this till later on when Barnabas and Paul are planning a second trip to go back and see how all the churches they planted were doing. Acts 15:36-41
And some days after Paul said unto Barnabus, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do. And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark. But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work. And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus; And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the grace of God. And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.
The Bible never really gives us any details about why John Mark departed during the first missionary journey. We only see the result of how it effected Paul's relationship with Barnabas when they were going to go back out to visit the churches a second time. I have felt like Paul was too hard in his insistence they did not take John Mark and give him another chance. Of course, later on, we see that John Mark must have made good, because Paul's impression of him had changed.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Mar 19, 2020 17:58:05 GMT -5
is it dont judge so i can remain in sin? for me if someone shows no remorse, no restraint, no shame... i make the judgment call to either stay at arms length or more, especially if they are not receptive. for me tho if this person comes to me in dire straits then i give mercy/love. those who practice folly got troubles so hard that follow them... the upright are not immune to troubles but its better if we suffer for doing well... i dont want be be no where in the vicinity when trouble comes to those who reject their Maker and His ways. dont need it, dont want it. i done had enough of those days.
OR is it dont judge because they had a moment/season of weakness, gave into temptation, and dont want to hear it because they know they messed up, already know what you will say, and know they did wrong... and are ashamed in what they did? now its time to brush them off and get them back on their feet heading in the right direction, on the straight and narrow.
now dont get me wrong here, we are to love our neighbor as our self... but if we do judge righteously do we say oh this behavior is acceptable for me when scripture says its not? to me that is the pivot point. birds of a feather flock together. if God has me speak to someone then i do. if they are content with self destruction... well little ole me cant save them anyway.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Mar 20, 2020 16:37:12 GMT -5
is it dont judge so i can remain in sin? for me if someone shows no remorse, no restraint, no shame... i make the judgment call to either stay at arms length or more, especially if they are not receptive. for me tho if this person comes to me in dire straits then i give mercy/love. those who practice folly got troubles so hard that follow them... the upright are not immune to troubles but its better if we suffer for doing well... i dont want be be no where in the vicinity when trouble comes to those who reject their Maker and His ways. dont need it, dont want it. i done had enough of those days. OR is it dont judge because they had a moment/season of weakness, gave into temptation, and dont want to hear it because they know they messed up, already know what you will say, and know they did wrong... and are ashamed in what they did? now its time to brush them off and get them back on their feet heading in the right direction, on the straight and narrow. now dont get me wrong here, we are to love our neighbor as our self... but if we do judge righteously do we say oh this behavior is acceptable for me when scripture says its not? to me that is the pivot point. birds of a feather flock together. if God has me speak to someone then i do. if they are content with self destruction... well little ole me cant save them anyway. I think it's good to go case by case. Jesus did.
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Post by joseph on Mar 30, 2020 5:22:36 GMT -5
That would definitely make me want to think twice before tossing people aside. I do not think this is telling anyone we should not judge sinful behavior, but I do think it is definitely telling us that we should be merciful to those who mess up. We should be quick to forgive, and give second chances. We should not be condemning, especially to sincere believers who just make a mistake.
I do not think this is saying we are not to judge sin. We need to stand against sinful behavior, like adultery and murder, but we need to remember that Jesus forgave us of a huge amount of sins. He showed us mercy when we sought it, and we should be ready to show compassion as well.
I do believe there are some people who do throw the do not judge thing around so people will not come against things they are doing, but that is not always the case. There are people who make a mistake, maybe a serious one, and we never let them live it down.
Right. Jesus does say judge with righteous judgement. Usually I focus on that. But sometimes, I think I need a reminder to be merciful too. I definitely can be too merciful sometimes and too judgemental in others.
I love the book of JamesYahweh and Yahushua (Jesus) were /are/ always unchanging - always merciful, while always without iniquity, while always destroying the works of the devils, while always with perfect judgment,
so all the Ekklesia who have the mind / attitude of Christ Jesus also THINK, and DO, and SPEAK, as the FATHER DOES - as JESUS DOES, and as JESUS INSTRUCTED/TRAINED all of His Permanent Disciples/Ekklesia/ born again ones/ new creations.....
Jesus NEVER DECIDED as if on His Own - not on a case by case basis, as if deciding instead of doing and speaking what the Father Reveals/ Directs..... never anything of His Own (Jesus Own), but always "of the Father" / relying with His Whole life on the Father, depending always and trusting only the Father , as written....
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