PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 6, 2018 16:10:04 GMT -5
Many Protestants these days are being taken in by Catholic complaints about division. Even famous ministers like Kenneth Copeland have fallen for it. The story goes that, once upon a time, all Christians were united in a single church. Perhaps it was imperfect, but it was essentially right, and its popularity somehow proved its validity. Then those dastardly Protestants turned rebellious -- and the long list of Protestant denominations now serves as proof of this dastardly mistake. There's a growing call for Western Christians to "come home" to mother Rome. It sounds very lovely. Until you do a bit of research and actually think it through. This narrative depends on a strong dose of historical revisionism. If you feel yourself tempted by the call to "come home," please consider the following... MYTH #1: The Catholic church had unanimous control of ChristianityThat's only true if we pretend there were no Coptic Christians, no Eastern Orthodox Christians, and no underground churches in Europe. Early churches split with each other over politics as much as doctrine. It was a time of kingdoms and nations being forged into the world we have now, with various people/locations maneuvering for power. Every time the Catholic church split with another group (see Council of Chalcedon) or kicked out an inconvenient dissenter (see Second Lateran Council), those who left were summarily called "heretic" and "apostate" in order to explain why they left, whether or not they really taught bad theology. For centuries even before the Protestant movement, the Catholic church left a trail of bodies in its wake, and large populations of Christian believers were delegitimized. The purpose of this OP is not to defend the doctrines of Coptics or various orthodox churches -- only to say that "Christendom" was not contained within the walls of western Europe. MYTH #2: There are no divisions or denominations within CatholicismCatholicism is a large umbrella for various "methods of worship" they call rites, as well as hundred of religious orders based on different philosophical approaches. Anyone looking to find that one unanimous Catholic experience will be disappointed. The church maintains unity through papal control: if Rome says a group is Catholic, no other Catholic may disagree. Conveniently, all you need to do is pledge allegiance to Rome, revere the pope, and agree to a few basic doctrinal points, and you can become Catholic while holding a number of diverse opinions. Voila, instant unity. MYTH #3: The church could have handled complaints internally if protestors followed the processSelling forgiveness on the open market, blackmailing parents into paying for baptisms, authorizing military invasions... they're hoping you don't know just how bad it really was. Sixteenth-century Catholicism was a brutal regime that ravaged the landscape and extorted money from the poor. It was an occupying invader, a foreign government setting up local puppets, using religion as a way to force the populace into submission. The explosive popularity of the Protestant movement showed that the church's problems went much deeper than a few small reforms. MYTH #4 The happy, lovey-dovey Catholic church we have now (which they want you to join) totally would have developed with or without the ReformationYeah... that sounds likely....
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Post by frienduff on Jun 6, 2018 16:57:22 GMT -5
Sister Candace . You right its all a sham . THEY will have A ONE WORLD RELIGOIN . Rome is not only calling all faiths home , BUT via INTERFAITH she is now calling ALL RELIGOINS to her . THIS is the religion and mindset that leads to the beast and causes the great tribulation to come against the few lambs who resisted it . Its been spreading and it will keep gaining ground . secular has their own version , pc all inclusive . And if you take note , the interfaith mulsims and christains , EVEN welcomed gays right in. into a mosgue too . Without any correction . JUST love and hugs. I am warning us all, THIS is the mindset that leads to the ANTI CHRIST . its what I have been continuously warning about . Watch and see, we will see more and more of all religons and faiths all joining hands for unity for world peace . WORLD wide this is , WORLD PEACE . Now go read Daniel. THE anti Christ destroys THROUGH PEACE . its where this is all headed , and its speeding up . all the religions are united with it , Just not all churches are yet . But in time IT WILL BE the ONLY ACCEPTED RELIGOIN and MINDSET . You loved Candace. And you right , NO going to ROME for me . unless its to nail a many page letter rebuking it for all its evil and vile interfaith and other teachings .
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Post by frienduff on Jun 6, 2018 17:02:41 GMT -5
I have been reading about the reformation . yesterday at the library , I nearly fell out my chair. I knew that this contemplative prayer and mysticism business WOULD lead people right back to rome under a dark spirit . But what I read in that book , IT ONLY confirmed it . The catholics did their own reformation about the time of luther . You know how they got many back in , THROUGH MYSTICSM , it gave the people a good feelng and so on . YEAH , I knew that contemplative prayer that francis praised and that mystical movement Was of darkness. And we better not have anything to do with those new age praticies . Its all the work of satan , to prepare the world to worship the beast who the dragon hands his seat and all authority too. Folks , as its been said, THIS Great tribulation that is coming , it wont be your grandbabys or childs, ITS OURS , we running out of time . our betrayer and betrayers stand worldwide soon .
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jun 6, 2018 18:02:16 GMT -5
Peace, peace, peace!
"I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!" - Luke 12:49
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." - Matthew 10:34
"Because, indeed, because they have seduced My people, saying, ‘Peace!’ when there is no peace — and one builds a wall, and they plaster it with untempered mortar..." - Ezekiel 13:10
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Post by John on Jun 6, 2018 18:15:15 GMT -5
Candance, you are right about the pull to return to the RCC. I felt that same pull a while back. What saved me was that I knew the teachings of the Bible, and when I had a chance to investigate what the RCC is teaching, I knew it was a false religion. Those who don't know the Bible, or don't take it as the inerrant Word of God will be swept up in this deception. The RCC was created to unite all the world's religions and unite them all into what was supposed to be Christianity. They have done this before, so why should it surprise anyone if they repeat the process to unite Muslims and Hindus and everyone else into one church?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 19:08:56 GMT -5
Amen sister. There is a actual spirit that is drawing people to the RCC....I have felt it too. And when the temple is built and Antichrist is revealed it will feel much stronger. We need to seek and follow God's will and truth, and not any spirit that comes along trying to pull us into anything. Test the spirits!
Amen Butero....thanks be to God, His word was a banner raised against the enemy. Yes, funny how the RCC has always gotten along so well with paganism....I didn't know that they had always wanted to unite all the world's religions, so that explains it.
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Post by John on Jun 6, 2018 19:27:52 GMT -5
The RCC took elements from pagan religions and mixed it with Christianity, and that is why you have all of the weird extra-Biblical things like praying to statues and Mary worship.
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Post by frienduff on Jun 6, 2018 19:49:36 GMT -5
Praise the Lord . it looks like the tiny narrow church aint falling for the end time delusional ruse . Instead we digging in only deeper into the LORD . Take a look around at these names , We are some of the few in tiny groups all over the world that are gathering together IN the LORD . In time it will truly be only two groups , us and those who resisted this delusion and then all who went under it . It will get worse . Well, it was and is an HONOR to serve and obey THE ONLY ONE who saved us , even if it costs us everything . We knew how it would look near the end, thanks to the mercy and grace of the LORD . Its true many will die being seen only as haters . But GOD will always know those who are HIS . I am very worried for so many because I see this all inclusive false love just gaining ground . Well, JESUS first bled for us , so we could have life , and no one lives forever in these bodies . But in Christ it is and will be eternal life forever . Just keep warning and exhorting , for our desire is none to perish. But many will go under this false delusion . The last days we were told would be perilous times . WE have all we need, Because WE have CHRIST . So right into the trenches we go , carrying the light of Christ to the last generation , and then comes great tribulation. Praise the LORD , for in Christ we have hope no matter what . SO lift those hands up and praise the LORD . No fear , just HOPE in the LORD .
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jun 6, 2018 20:33:39 GMT -5
It would be much better without titles. It would be much better if the focus was not i am a baptist or catholic or methodist or protestant but instead focus on The Spirit. I thank God i was not raised in a church, allowed to go out and get dirty and have Him save me and show me The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
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Post by Sister on Jun 6, 2018 22:24:02 GMT -5
Rome knows that all Christian establishments came out of her. She was the white horse, which is why she is calling all back to her.
Revelation 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
When Christ's name really started to spread amongst the gentiles, it was done through Rome, however, his name was not spread in truth, but through deceit and with much secrecy, although openly.
The rider of this horse was conquering souls not for Christ, but to come under her authority so that the truth could be blocked. Rome is the mother of all worldwide church establishments from what I can see, and from her many Christian religions were born and spread worldwide. If you delve really deep, even most Protestant churches carry some of her main teachings, and refuse to let her go. Many churches have branched off from Mother Rome, so many, and all put there to cause division and confusion, to control the sheep, so they don't feed for themselves.
All modern day churches are the branches and are from the same tree. I say this with regret. Your pastor might be genuine, but the roots, always go back to the roots of the tree. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit, nor can a good tree bare bad fruit. And what do we see now? The falling away. All started from this white horse at a certain point of time to keep the sheep in captivity.
The body of Christ was set up by Christ and his apostles. This is the true church. The apostles are our elders, our instructors, our brethren, our church. We build on what Christ sent them for, to lay the foundations.
All we need to know is in our bibles, the Word of truth which Christ gave us all access to. This is where we come to for truth. When we read about what Christ and the apostles wrote, and the prophets, and receive it, we are in fellowship with them, of that same spirit. If we come to church because we are lonely and need friends to sing a long with, or need people around us to encourage or feel uplifted, to hold us up, teach, then we have come to church for the wrong reasons All we need is supplied in the scriptures, and the holy spirit who is the comforter, will do all the comforting, teaching, uplifting and encouragement to continue our journey, and with this truth, we will sing and praise the Lord in our hearts, and share with as many as we come across.
God is going to destroy all the pastures (churches) and scatter the flocks again. If we have not learned to walk on our own two feet with everything that Christ already supplied us with, then we are going to feel so lost when this time comes. So use the Word of God as encouragement to each other, so all can bring out their treasures and keep nothing hidden.
Isaiah 33:6 And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD is his treasure.
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Post by justinadams on Jun 7, 2018 5:21:51 GMT -5
This is a bit long. I have mentioned this before in several ways.
For centuries the Israelis spread Christianity. Then came Constantine who took over 'the church'. He was a Jew hater and made it impossible for Jews in many ways to live normal lives and spread antisemitism. Around AD 300 or so they got some 350 or more 'gentile experts' together at the council of Nicaea. Not a single Jew was invited. The 'church' was antisemitic from the get-go. So few Christians realize this because they are never taught about it and the underlying reason for the Sabbath change and why anything 'Jewish' was frowned upon as 'Judaic' and discarded with contempt.
Then you have all the history down thru the ages to the so-called Reformation. Even Luther wrote a paper on how to get the Jews out of Germany which later Hitler incorporated in his pogroms against the Jews and other minorities.
So that is why the Sabbath (God's Sabbath) was changed by the RCC to SUN-day and later, just about anything really Jewish was white-washed. The 'church' is riddled with a history of despicable antisemitic behaviour, yet very few if any talk about this. Few know history it seems.
People readily took on-board the pagan holidays as they were seen to be 'nice' in comparison to the Judaistic Seasons and Feast-days. Only recently have people really begun to study the Tanach in earnest and realize it is God's History and if you do not take to heart the lessons in it you will understand so little of anything, especially the N.T. The Tanach is the basis of all the apostles' and Yeshua's teachings and the miracles of Yeshua are nearly all incorporated in the Tanach.
Tishri 2 was when Moses was born and Tishri 2 seems to be when the Messiah was born. It is also the date when historically Kings were crowned. There is much to learn from the Feast Days as well. The Lord instituted them for some very good reasons. Remember, Saul (Paul) was most concerned to share Passover and went out of his way to do this. They taught on the Sabbath from the Tanach. I looked up how many times Yahweh tells His people in the Tanach to observe and not forsake His Sabbaths. Amazing!!
The Feast Days have more than one meaning for Christians and the Lord High God was very astute to implement them. Look for future happenings to coincide with His Seasons. I think you will be surprised. Especially the Feast of Trumpets. Just keep them in the back of your mind and see. Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy says the Lord.
The Lord never does anything without a really poignant meaning. We don't have to go hog-wild over the Hebrew Roots movements. However, the Lord is still working out His purposes His way and we should be vigilant. Israel is His Key.
I do not hold with the 'need' for another temple either (it would be the fourth). The apostles labored the point that God Tabernacles with His people on a personal level. I.e. we are supposed to be the Temple and Living Stones. Some of the Darby type errors are still permeating the thought processes of believers due to an unprecedented force of compounded errors in the 17-18th centuries. All begun with a Jesuit in the 1500s who was commissioned by the Pope to get the pressure off him and the church. Thus we get the 'rediscovered' pre-trib stuff (Darby and Scofield) that has many a believer running in circles. Many still hold to this pre-trib view and cannot say exactly why.
We need to stand back apace and see what the Tanach and the Apostles actually taught and not be carried away with fables. Much of the NT references to the Tanach and early Israeli teachings has been eclipsed by modern 'prophetic' licence. We must take great care in our studies.
If everyone is doing it or believing it - well, it might be suspect...
This is the whole story roughly. God threw out His High Council members (sons of God) and the Watchers were sent to Tartarus (Saul mentions this). He sent them all packing and told them to do whatever - these are the principalities of the 70 nations. They then banded together and did not disperse as commanded to, so we get the Babel incident happening and the Lord forcibly scattering them.
The Tanach says that they 'did a deal' with mankind - 'sacrifice to us and worship us and we will bless you'. So we get all the fake religions and 'gods' that are real entities and demonstrably evil. (Principalities and Powers). In the NT writings these are called 'Archons'. Spiritual beings, and this is translated as 'principalities and powers'.
You will note that right after the Babel scattering that God chose Abram and declared He was going to make a people for Himself. Israel is His chosen for more than one reason. He Has declared that since Yeshua put it all back on track, He is going to use Israel to regather all the nations. Israel is His chosen vessel for redemption.
So we have three things: 1) reversing the Watchers incursion and their pollution of the nations. 2) regathering all the nations from the Babel dispersion. 3) The crucifixion that nor only redeems all those that believe in Yeshua (Yahweh is Salvation) but also gives Yahweh full licence to re-establish His kingdom LEGALLY.
The Lord always set Himself strict legal footing when it comes to His Creation. He will NEVER violate our free will and there are other Legalities in His High Places. He will win and beat the adversary at his own game and do it RIGHTEOUSLY. Read Psalm 82 and how He will eventually judge His Angelic council - "you will all die like men".
Yahweh gave ALL His higher created beings free will. Remember this fact. Yes, even the angels and spiritual hosts have free will.
Up until about 100-200 AD most Jewish writings would agree with all this. But then came The Messiah's influence, so they changed their scrolls and attempted to rewrite history since Christianity was a real threat to them. (However the Qumran scribes did not do this - God had His hand on all this.) Renewed efforts of antisemitism took root and we see the culmination of that in our news today, and holocaust deniers. Since the 'new' Christians hated the Jews and their Zionist Religion with even more fervor now, it just got worse and worse.
The problem with the modern believer is many-fold - the main one is taking the spiritual realm completely out of its understanding. De-mystifying the Works of the Lord means that 'flesh' is all we ever learn about and the pretense of the much edited spiritual realm is so sadly misconstrued that we are almost totally blind. Non-Messianic Jews know more than Christians do about Yahweh's Workings!! The Tanach is relegated to an 'old story'. But it is HIS-STORY and we ignore it at our peril.
Bottom line: Yahweh chose a people out of all the nations for Himself and He declared that He will use that nation to bring all men back to Him. That is why there is so much antisemitism. Purely because Israel is the Lord's Declared Instrument.
Keep your eye on Israel.
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