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Post by frienduff on Jul 26, 2020 13:16:54 GMT -5
This debate over Christmas has been going on for years. I see nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas, and I don't think Christmas trees are the idols mentioned in the Bible. christmas trees are not the idols spoken of by the prophet in that bible . OH but THEY AN IDOL all right . The most common response is , well i dont see it as an idol . Well , if you saw someone praying to mary or the saints , AND YES they think its NOT WORSHIP . what are you gonna tell them . OH its not error if they dont see it as error . WHY on earth , would we raise up anything , OTHER than JESUS , if we really in our heart celebrating HIS birth . Christmas trees are EVIL . Now that you know that . warn against it . Just cause some cultures might think there is no harm in drinking blood . IF one of them comes to JESUS , are we gonna let them continue to drink blood . Christmas trees and santa , THEY all bad news my friend . And either we make a stand against that which is pagan or we fall for it . I could care less what day folk do honor the birth of JESUS . BUT if its HIM WE HONOR , I DONT SEE how on earth bringing pagan into it , HONORS HIM . ITS just excuses. I easily , By grace let go of the pagan WHEN i was led to Christ . Now i go about reminding others to not let the pagan have hold on them . I hope you like my new slogan . here it comes . JESUS TWENTY TWENTY and FOREVER . We make teaching the BIBLE great again . The Bible is the Word of GOD . we call it the WORD of GOD , cause .......................WELL IT IS . And an idol is an idol .
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Post by frienduff on Jul 26, 2020 13:53:10 GMT -5
is a tree an idol . NO . just a tree . right . But when its chopped down and then erected for the purpose of just putting presents under it . WHAT do you think WE JUST MADE IT . I MEAN , its in our house . its not like its protecting those presents from the elements . YALL this stuff comes from PAGAN . I KNOW most folks are ignorant of that . BUT that is why i warn them . The thing is , its one thing to do something in ignorance , but AFTER BEING WARNED to continue it , THAT is bad news . After hearing something , WE GOT NO EXCUSE . NO MORE CHRISTMAS TREES , NO MORE SATAN CLAUSE . No , i didnt mispell it . PONDER THIS . SHOULD WE LIE . NO . TELL a kid there is such thing as santa . WHEN WE KNOW THERE IS NOT . Not only did you lie , YOU DO IT WILLFULLY . YES i am getting much more serious now . WE GOTTA FLEE evil . PEROID . i will be hated , i warned us all i would be . but guess what , SO WILL WE ALL , IF WE STICK ONLY TO JESUS .
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Post by John on Jul 26, 2020 17:49:25 GMT -5
Honestly, I do not think a Christmas tree is an idol, unless you worship it. The reason we see praying to statues or Mary as idolatrous is because we are praying to them. If you are kneeling down and worshipping a tree, that is tree worship, and clearly wrong. I would have to agree with Solid, that this is not the idol spoken of in the Old Testament. I had a guy in my church mention that to me once, and after looking into it, I did not see it. It appears to me that in the Old Testament, it is referring to fashioning a tree into something to be worshipped, not something pretty to look at during the holiday season. I see no connection.
Having said all of that, I do see valid concerns by Giller and Frienduff. I have never belittled those who believe celebrating Christmas is wrong. The holiday was set up by the RCC to unite everyone, and they did choose a day when pagans worshipped an idol. I feel like this is a conscience issue. If you feel celebrating Christmas is wrong, do not do it. If you feel like it is okay, celebrate it. I really do not care one way or the other. I see the whole holiday season as a burden, and would be happy to just wash my hands of it, so this is not about holding onto something I love. When I was a child, I loved Christmas for the gifts, but today, I can take it or leave Christmas. I do not like joining the unbelievers in opposing a celebration of Jesus' birth, and I do see good in having the reminders of Jesus all over the place for the weeks leading up to December 25. I kind of see it like I do the argument over the Sabbath. Clearly it is Saturday, not Sunday, and it was changed to Sunday out of tradition, not by God, but I do not attack those who honor a Sunday Sabbath. I see both sides of this argument as having valid points.
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Post by Giller on Jul 26, 2020 18:55:33 GMT -5
Hmmm, well maybe I will eventuality get into the Christmas tree stuff, later.
And we do have to be careful, notice that men want statues of themselves, but if you look at the God of the bible, no statues, just worshiping him by faith.
Disobedience itself is an act of rebellion whether you proclaim worship, or not towards something.
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Post by Giller on Jul 26, 2020 18:58:52 GMT -5
There is a lot more than meets the eye about the Christmas tree issue, and even the scripture that says learn not the ways of the heathen.
Way more.
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Post by Giller on Jul 26, 2020 19:15:59 GMT -5
God does look at the motives, and it does not have to always be strait direct worship, to were you sing a song to it, but just doing things for the sake of it, or in vain.
Although the truth is there are songs of Christmas trees out there, even many.
And also what people have to think about is, if God says to not serve him, or worship him a certain way, and we try to do the opposite, even if we supposedly direct our songs with right Christian words, it is still an abomination to God.
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Post by Giller on Jul 26, 2020 19:17:04 GMT -5
We really do not know better than God.
Pro 14:12 (12) There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Just lack of reverence is an abomination to God, and really this is a lack of honor towards God, and you can say in a sense, is a type of worship.
See if there is a lack of reverence towards God's name, or his ways, that is idol worship, for you affections are somewhere else.
And see that is were the snare is, if it is not obvious worship, they cannot discern it.
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Post by Giller on Jul 26, 2020 19:28:41 GMT -5
If you do not care about pagan roots, which God does care about, then that is idol worship, for your affections are somewhere else other than God's ways.
People make so many excuses, and unless it is some type of obvious ahum, ahum worship, they will not be able to discern it, why? Because their affections are somewhere else.
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Post by solid on Jul 27, 2020 9:30:48 GMT -5
This debate over Christmas has been going on for years. I see nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas, and I don't think Christmas trees are the idols mentioned in the Bible. christmas trees are not the idols spoken of by the prophet in that bible . OH but THEY AN IDOL all right . The most common response is , well i dont see it as an idol . Well , if you saw someone praying to mary or the saints , AND YES they think its NOT WORSHIP . what are you gonna tell them . OH its not error if they dont see it as error . WHY on earth , would we raise up anything , OTHER than JESUS , if we really in our heart celebrating HIS birth . Christmas trees are EVIL . Now that you know that . warn against it . Just cause some cultures might think there is no harm in drinking blood . IF one of them comes to JESUS , are we gonna let them continue to drink blood . Christmas trees and santa , THEY all bad news my friend . And either we make a stand against that which is pagan or we fall for it . I could care less what day folk do honor the birth of JESUS . BUT if its HIM WE HONOR , I DONT SEE how on earth bringing pagan into it , HONORS HIM . ITS just excuses. I easily , By grace let go of the pagan WHEN i was led to Christ . Now i go about reminding others to not let the pagan have hold on them . I hope you like my new slogan . here it comes . JESUS TWENTY TWENTY and FOREVER . We make teaching the BIBLE great again . The Bible is the Word of GOD . we call it the WORD of GOD , cause .......................WELL IT IS . And an idol is an idol . I don't pray to a Christmas tree or worship a Christmas tree, so it's not the same thing. My family doesn't either.
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Post by solid on Jul 27, 2020 9:34:21 GMT -5
Honestly, I do not think a Christmas tree is an idol, unless you worship it. The reason we see praying to statues or Mary as idolatrous is because we are praying to them. If you are kneeling down and worshipping a tree, that is tree worship, and clearly wrong. I would have to agree with Solid, that this is not the idol spoken of in the Old Testament. I had a guy in my church mention that to me once, and after looking into it, I did not see it. It appears to me that in the Old Testament, it is referring to fashioning a tree into something to be worshipped, not something pretty to look at during the holiday season. I see no connection.
Having said all of that, I do see valid concerns by Giller and Frienduff. I have never belittled those who believe celebrating Christmas is wrong. The holiday was set up by the RCC to unite everyone, and they did choose a day when pagans worshipped an idol. I feel like this is a conscience issue. If you feel celebrating Christmas is wrong, do not do it. If you feel like it is okay, celebrate it. I really do not care one way or the other. I see the whole holiday season as a burden, and would be happy to just wash my hands of it, so this is not about holding onto something I love. When I was a child, I loved Christmas for the gifts, but today, I can take it or leave Christmas. I do not like joining the unbelievers in opposing a celebration of Jesus' birth, and I do see good in having the reminders of Jesus all over the place for the weeks leading up to December 25. I kind of see it like I do the argument over the Sabbath. Clearly it is Saturday, not Sunday, and it was changed to Sunday out of tradition, not by God, but I do not attack those who honor a Sunday Sabbath. I see both sides of this argument as having valid points. What are the origins of the Sunday Sabbath? Did God teach us to worship on that day or is it tradition? Does any of this really matter?
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Post by John on Jul 27, 2020 9:39:39 GMT -5
Honestly, I do not think a Christmas tree is an idol, unless you worship it. The reason we see praying to statues or Mary as idolatrous is because we are praying to them. If you are kneeling down and worshipping a tree, that is tree worship, and clearly wrong. I would have to agree with Solid, that this is not the idol spoken of in the Old Testament. I had a guy in my church mention that to me once, and after looking into it, I did not see it. It appears to me that in the Old Testament, it is referring to fashioning a tree into something to be worshipped, not something pretty to look at during the holiday season. I see no connection.
Having said all of that, I do see valid concerns by Giller and Frienduff. I have never belittled those who believe celebrating Christmas is wrong. The holiday was set up by the RCC to unite everyone, and they did choose a day when pagans worshipped an idol. I feel like this is a conscience issue. If you feel celebrating Christmas is wrong, do not do it. If you feel like it is okay, celebrate it. I really do not care one way or the other. I see the whole holiday season as a burden, and would be happy to just wash my hands of it, so this is not about holding onto something I love. When I was a child, I loved Christmas for the gifts, but today, I can take it or leave Christmas. I do not like joining the unbelievers in opposing a celebration of Jesus' birth, and I do see good in having the reminders of Jesus all over the place for the weeks leading up to December 25. I kind of see it like I do the argument over the Sabbath. Clearly it is Saturday, not Sunday, and it was changed to Sunday out of tradition, not by God, but I do not attack those who honor a Sunday Sabbath. I see both sides of this argument as having valid points. What are the origins of the Sunday Sabbath? Did God teach us to worship on that day or is it tradition? Does any of this really matter? I cannot say for sure about the origin of the Sunday Sabbath. I do know the early Christians would meet on the "Lord's Day," which seems to be the first day of the week, but the Bible never calls the first day of the week the Sabbath rest for Christians. It depends on who you ask what the origin is. We have discussed that in the past. Does it matter? Some believe that it does and others feel like since we are under the New Covenant, it does not matter what day we set aside, if any. I have never been completely convinced about the Saturday Sabbath, but I do believe the Sunday Sabbath is based on tradition, not following God. It appears to me it was done so they could have Christian meetings on the first day of the week, and be a witness at the synagogue on the seventh day of the week.
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Post by Giller on Jul 27, 2020 9:40:49 GMT -5
Honestly, I do not think a Christmas tree is an idol, unless you worship it. The reason we see praying to statues or Mary as idolatrous is because we are praying to them. If you are kneeling down and worshipping a tree, that is tree worship, and clearly wrong. I would have to agree with Solid, that this is not the idol spoken of in the Old Testament. I had a guy in my church mention that to me once, and after looking into it, I did not see it. It appears to me that in the Old Testament, it is referring to fashioning a tree into something to be worshipped, not something pretty to look at during the holiday season. I see no connection.
Having said all of that, I do see valid concerns by Giller and Frienduff. I have never belittled those who believe celebrating Christmas is wrong. The holiday was set up by the RCC to unite everyone, and they did choose a day when pagans worshipped an idol. I feel like this is a conscience issue. If you feel celebrating Christmas is wrong, do not do it. If you feel like it is okay, celebrate it. I really do not care one way or the other. I see the whole holiday season as a burden, and would be happy to just wash my hands of it, so this is not about holding onto something I love. When I was a child, I loved Christmas for the gifts, but today, I can take it or leave Christmas. I do not like joining the unbelievers in opposing a celebration of Jesus' birth, and I do see good in having the reminders of Jesus all over the place for the weeks leading up to December 25. I kind of see it like I do the argument over the Sabbath. Clearly it is Saturday, not Sunday, and it was changed to Sunday out of tradition, not by God, but I do not attack those who honor a Sunday Sabbath. I see both sides of this argument as having valid points. What are the origins of the Sunday Sabbath? Did God teach us to worship on that day or is it tradition? Does any of this really matter? There are different thoughts on this, some say it is tradition, some say it is not, there are scriptures which talk about the first day of the week. And there is a thread were this was talked about, which there are certain scriptures that point to he first day of the week, that I did not mention or post, or talked to any one about so far (at Narrow Ways), but for myself, I do not want to discuss it in this thread, and that is me I guess, maybe some other thread, some other time.
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Post by John on Jul 27, 2020 9:45:42 GMT -5
What are the origins of the Sunday Sabbath? Did God teach us to worship on that day or is it tradition? Does any of this really matter? There are different thoughts on this, some say it is tradition, some say it is not, there are scriptures which talk about the first day of the week. And there is a thread were this was talked about, which there are certain scriptures that point to he first day of the week, that I did not mention or post, or talked to any one about so far, but for myself, I do not want to discuss it in this thread, and that is me I guess, maybe some other thread, some other time. The only connection I made between the two was whether it was another tradition of men that had been incorporated by the church. That would mean we were not worshipping God in truth in that area. Still, that is a different topic, and I do not want to derail this thread and it's intention, so we can take that up in another thread, perhaps the one that was already started if I can find it.
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Post by Giller on Jul 27, 2020 9:52:48 GMT -5
Now of course I do not see this issue of the 1rst day of the week, as something that one should divide over, although I do find it important, it is just an issue that is tougher to look into, or in seeing what all the connections are.
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Post by Giller on Jul 27, 2020 9:53:30 GMT -5
Anyhow God is good.
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