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Post by John on Jun 23, 2020 17:28:11 GMT -5
Which brings about the question, at what point does God start loving someone? We know God loved "the world," his creation as a whole, so much He sent His only begotten Son, but when it comes to individuals, does God love the sinners and those who reject the Lord? Does He love those that Jesus himself said were of "their Father the devil?" I do not think the answer is as clear as some lead us to believe. He does not want any to perish, so He desires to save them, but at what point does he love them, and does His love ever end for those he created, even after He sentences them to the lake of fire? There's erotic love, friend love, safe love, dangerous love, wise love, foolish love.... Yes, there are many different kinds of love, and love has different meanings to different people. You can never really be sure what kind of love they are speaking of until you ask follow up questions.
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Post by John on Jun 23, 2020 17:29:25 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has suggested they believe in universal salvation, not in this thread anyway. I don't believe that. I think the question is just whether or not God's love itself is unconditional? People say it is, but does the Bible support that? Even after reading all the responses, I'm not sure. I do not believe in universal salvation.
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Post by John on Jun 23, 2020 17:36:32 GMT -5
Which brings about the question, at what point does God start loving someone? We know God loved "the world," his creation as a whole, so much He sent His only begotten Son, but when it comes to individuals, does God love the sinners and those who reject the Lord? Does He love those that Jesus himself said were of "their Father the devil?" I do not think the answer is as clear as some lead us to believe. He does not want any to perish, so He desires to save them, but at what point does he love them, and does His love ever end for those he created, even after He sentences them to the lake of fire? There's erotic love, friend love, safe love, dangerous love, wise love, foolish love.... I think you hit on more than what most realize when they read this. It is not just about does God love, but is His love unconditional and what kind of love does He have for us as individuals? We know God so loved "the world," he sent His son to save it, at the cost of his own life, but is that His creation as a whole, or every individual person, no matter what? Is God's love unconditional to people like Madeline O'Hare, Adolph Hitler, Hugh Hefner, and all those who hate him till their dying day? Is God's love unconditional to the person who starts out loving and serving God, but who later turns their back on Him and becomes His enemy? If He does love all, we all agree that does not equate to universal salvation, so why would anyone assume it translates to unconditional salvation for a person who starts out serving God and abandons the faith? To me, it does not.
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Post by frienduff on Jun 23, 2020 18:09:34 GMT -5
There's erotic love, friend love, safe love, dangerous love, wise love, foolish love.... I think you hit on more than what most realize when they read this. It is not just about does God love, but is His love unconditional and what kind of love does He have for us as individuals? We know God so loved "the world," he sent His son to save it, at the cost of his own life, but is that His creation as a whole, or every individual person, no matter what? Is God's love unconditional to people like Madeline O'Hare, Adolph Hitler, Hugh Hefner, and all those who hate him till their dying day? Is God's love unconditional to the person who starts out loving and serving God, but who later turns their back on Him and becomes His enemy? If He does love all, we all agree that does not equate to universal salvation, so why would anyone assume it translates to unconditional salvation for a person who starts out serving God and abandons the faith? To me, it does not. Well lets examine this then . I pray NOT for the world , but for these you have given me . and later HE prays for all who would BELIEVE , key word , BELEIVE on HIM through their words . Or how about this one . FATHER i thank thee , that you have HIDDEN this from the wise and prudent and has revealed it unto babes , for so it seemed GOOD in your sight . Its true JESUS prayed forgivness as He desired none to perish . But its also true that a point comes when God will say as HE Did to ezzekial , EVEN If MOSES STOOD before me , for this people , I WOULD NOT HEAR HIM . And we are fast appraoching those days . Or how about this . GOD sends a strong delusion so that all who rejected the love of the truth , AKA THE GOSPLE , would beleive a lie and then BE DAMNED . I see the same GOD in the new test as was in the old . HIS DESIRE is none do perish but that all come to repentance , BUT DENY THAT , and LOOK OUT . Or how about this . EVEN as THEY did not LIKE to RETAIN GOD in their conscious SO HE GIVES THEM UP to a reprobate mind to do such things . The truth is , GOD is very longsuffering and HE does not desire the death of the wicked , but rather they repent . But if they repent not , HE WILL COME FULL FORCE AGAINST THEM and DESTROY THEM and SENTENCE them to a lake full of fire . THUS KNOWING THE TERROR Of GOD we persaude men , JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY , NOW REPENT and BELEIVE or suffer HIS WRATH ye surely will .
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Post by frienduff on Jun 23, 2020 18:16:49 GMT -5
There's erotic love, friend love, safe love, dangerous love, wise love, foolish love.... I think you hit on more than what most realize when they read this. It is not just about does God love, but is His love unconditional and what kind of love does He have for us as individuals? We know God so loved "the world," he sent His son to save it, at the cost of his own life, but is that His creation as a whole, or every individual person, no matter what? Is God's love unconditional to people like Madeline O'Hare, Adolph Hitler, Hugh Hefner, and all those who hate him till their dying day? Is God's love unconditional to the person who starts out loving and serving God, but who later turns their back on Him and becomes His enemy? If He does love all, we all agree that does not equate to universal salvation, so why would anyone assume it translates to unconditional salvation for a person who starts out serving God and abandons the faith? To me, it does not. What we need to do is ask ourselves WHO brought this teaching into the churches and WHY . and the why is real simple . It was to get their minds ready to accept a GOD whose love will have none end up in a lake of fire . IN essence it would allow the mind to beleive that even other religoins are okay and will not be damned . IT WAS FOR UNITY under the wrong mindset . MEN brought this in , to change the church from within , just as they did and do bring in many other things . Satan knows how to decieve . SO do not expect HIM or his men to come outright and tell a church , HEY GOD IS NOT LOVE , NO , HE WILL and they will , say GOD IS LOVE but then they who do the will of the dragon , they change that love into a love NOT at all compatible with A HOLY RIGHTEOUS GOD . And we better all be on gaurd . FOR MANY there are which do the work of the one who can appear as an angel of light and thus his minisiirs sure can appear as men of righteousness . THEY SURE can appear from WITHIN . THEY DID and they did one wicked work . and many have fallen for it . TILL now they resist the very foundation , the very cornerstone , the very faith , the very true gosple that could have saved them and replace it with a GOD whose love is unconditional and cares not what religoin one is of . YET just by the scrips along we see that is a lie . GOD is a jealous GOD and wants our hearts on him , not other gods . ITS ALL bad news man . THIS is why we better clamor and clamp down on all biblical reminders and learn it very well . TESTING all who do speak , for many spirits speak contrary to JESUS and The holy doctrine and worse they even use HIS NAME to create another jesus who is no JESUS , but rather is an image of the dragon himself , the serpent himself . WE are in serious and dangerous times . And we had better cling to the KING with all our might , all our hope , all our trust .
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Post by Giller on Jun 23, 2020 18:23:37 GMT -5
On one hand God's word says these things:
Joh 3:16 (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
2Pe 3:9 (9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1Jn 4:9 (9) In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Who did he give his only begotten Son for? For the world, so they can receive salvation, otherwise none of us would have a chance at salvation, for we were all conceived in sin.
Now in order for one to get salvation one has to repent of course, and the way is narrow, and most of course do not receive what Christ did at the cross.
God is willing that none would perish, and that all should come to repentance, and we know not all will come to repentance, but the way has been made for all to be able to do so.
That is part of God's love for the whole world.
So he does have a certain type of love for the whole world, in that he made a way for them to be able to get saved, and he prompts people by his love to come to him, but most reject his promptings.
So with that said, the bible also says this:
Pro 8:17 (17) I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Rom 9:13 (13) As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
So it seems that there is a special kind of love that God shows towards them that love him, and it is believer's that experience this special kind of love, and this is a type of love to were we have a relationship with him.
And in that other scripture it says that Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Now did not God have a certain type of love for Esau, since he loves the world, and he would that none would perish?
I do believe that God sought for the good of Esau, and he does for the good of all men, but Esau obviously rejected God's goodness, therefore God show disfavor towards him, in that he said he hated him.
But he did show favor towards Jacob.
So in saying these things, could God's love be both unconditional and conditional? And of course there are times were God has no choice but to hand over someone to Satan, for his justice demands it.
So could God have a certain aspect of love for the world, and a special love for his children (them that are in Christ)?
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Post by tabitha3319 on Jun 24, 2020 5:37:18 GMT -5
There's erotic love, friend love, safe love, dangerous love, wise love, foolish love.... I think you hit on more than what most realize when they read this. It is not just about does God love, but is His love unconditional and what kind of love does He have for us as individuals? We know God so loved "the world," he sent His son to save it, at the cost of his own life, but is that His creation as a whole, or every individual person, no matter what? Is God's love unconditional to people like Madeline O'Hare, Adolph Hitler, Hugh Hefner, and all those who hate him till their dying day? Is God's love unconditional to the person who starts out loving and serving God, but who later turns their back on Him and becomes His enemy? If He does love all, we all agree that does not equate to universal salvation, so why would anyone assume it translates to unconditional salvation for a person who starts out serving God and abandons the faith? To me, it does not. I see the Agape love required of Christians as "acting in the best interest of another person" whether that be sacrifice, prayer, or abstaining from food that offends them. God always acts in our best interest out of that agape or charity love. In that sense, He does love Hitler, who is still made in God's image. However, God has a special love for His children and His righteous ones who serve Him. He honors and blesses those that willingly choose to bless and obey Him. The fact that it rains on the crops of both the righteous and the wicked is simply because the Lord is merciful to sinners and desires first and foremost that they repent and live.
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Post by watchful on Jun 24, 2020 7:11:16 GMT -5
Yes, there's a difference for sure between God's love and His favour. He loves all because that is who He is, His nature which the bible says He can't deny Himself. But that doesn't mean He is pleased with all or that all are chosen in Him from the foundation of the world. It doesn't mean that all accept and receive His love. It doesn't mean that all will be hid on the day of His 'anger' if they are not hidden and shielded in Christ.
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Post by frienduff on Jun 24, 2020 8:30:41 GMT -5
Yes, there's a difference for sure between God's love and His favour. He loves all because that is who He is, His nature which the bible says He can't deny Himself. But that doesn't mean He is pleased with all or that all are chosen in Him from the foundation of the world. It doesn't mean that all accept and receive His love. It doesn't mean that all will be hid on the day of His 'anger' if they are not hidden and shielded in Christ. For the Love of the Truth , the gosple , is what saves one . God has done all that is required for salvation . He sent the only begotton Son , His word did become flesh and Has done all that is necessary for salvation . But many reject the love of the truth and rather desire pleasure in unrighteousness . For this cause Shall GOD send a strong delusion that they should believe a lie and be damned . Unto all who rejected the love of the truth and had pleasure in unrighteousness . That delusion is real . For nigh two thousand years God has been longsuffering thus far . But as we see in the old holy scrips and as we see also in the gosples and letters from the apostels and revelation , nigh the end that door will shut . despite the days , weeks , months which turned to years , which led to decades , and to centuries which GOD has been longsuffering , that time will end and the door will be shut . What God has purposed will be accomplished . The very desolation , the unification of a reprobate world , the kings even surrending unto the beast , GOD has already determined what will be done . And time quickly is running out . Therefore knowing the TERROR of GOD we persaude all , to abandon their wicked ways , to abandon the false unity , false inclusive hope , and to come to the ONLY NAME whereby one can be saved . For if by two or three witnesses , in the law , one could be put to death , HOW MUCH SORER punishement than even death does await all who TROD the SON OF MAN UNDER FOOT for an all inclusvive golden bull . Peter was right , for JESUS He did HEED and the SPIRIT he did follow , when he said , at the time nigh the end mockers would grow far worse and even do as the children of israel did . They would mock the coming of the KING and say its not near , its not near , and where has This JESUS gone . Go to let us build us a golden image of our god let us cast our hopes into the fire , let us each work as one to build us a golden bull of our all inclusive god . For this JESUS is gone , and He shall not come back . But alas as Moses had made intercession for the people in that moutain , as JESUS NOW makes intercession for the lambs , WHEN MOSES returned , AND WHEN JESUS RETURNS , it will be wrath against all who threw their gems to the fire to make and worship the golden inclusive bull . And if we think the wrath of moses was hard , and many did die , FAR more will the wrath of JESUS burn bright against those , his enemies who bowed not , who kissed not the son , but kissed the inclusive golden calf . AND i tell us all , the days are growing only shorter , TILL OUR LORD DO COME . And as a thief in the night it will strike terror into the hearts of all who bowed unto the image and of all who had rejected CHRIST and the glorious true gosple all for the sake of a lost cause , lost hope all inclusive dung bull . If any desires souls to be saved , pray for laborers NOW to be sent out more than ever . many will be persecuted , hated , betrayed and even killed , but he who endures to the end the same shall be saved . And some will hear , but many will only grow bolder Against the truth , more hateful against the truth and those who do speak and live it . Armour up , the KING is with the lambs . And in all that we do or say may it HONOR HE who has saved us . HEED the SPIRIT and not the flesh and ye shall not fullfill the lusts of the flesh . Seeing we know these things already and be established in the present truth , see that none does get taken in with the error of the wicked and fall from their own steadfastness . For this delusion is a monster , a beast unlike anything i have ever seen and dealt with . A taker of the heart mind and soul it truly is . ONLY by FAITH in CHRIST can it be resisted . We must double down on all biblical reminders and very fast . We dont want one soul to perish , but if they reject the true biblcial JESUS , the true biblical gosple , THEY WILL .
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Post by frienduff on Jun 24, 2020 8:41:18 GMT -5
We go into the trenches and unto other sites and the world , to declare the only hope there is for this world . Wherever we do GO let the glorious gosple and all reminders of JESUS and those apostels and of all sound doctrine be spread . I am reminding us all , TIME IS RUNNING OUT and this is a world war for the souls of men . Many have drunk and many are drinking of the cup of the whores fornication . The dragon , those spirits and the men under its sway are taking no time off to build this one world utopain all inclusive lie . And that means , We take no time off . There are still souls that are to be saved and thus to the trenches we go . Let all be praying for laboreres for exhorters , for one another , and that the glorious gosple will shine into the hearts of men . In all we do and say , let it bring honor to HE who has saved us , and let us think on the pure and lovely truth of our LORD . TO the TRENCHES , to the WALLS , and let all according to the gift given them by GOD , be faithful and do exploits , prayers , and all the gifts each one has been given by GOD to build up the church and to persaude all to repent and beleive . LOOK at the door of men . LOOK at it . A huge peaceful GOLDEN TROGAN BULL is being offered into all places now . DO NOT let it enter into the chambers of your heart . For inside it is deadly and vile poison , so deadly that if a man sip of that cup , It kills . HIT the trenches , Hit the walls and stand as one IN JESUS to defend the faith to the end , being faithful to HIM to the end , to contend for the true faith to the last breath .
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Post by frienduff on Jun 24, 2020 8:46:30 GMT -5
And shake off all insults against us . I have been called an anti christ , a son of perdition and many other things . YOU REJOICE when persecuted for JESUS sake . And let us forgive all who do hate us , let us bless those who curse us , but let us never once conform in their direction . If we cannot handle mere words of perescution , then how will we handle actions . For the times will only get worse . Words will become actions . many will be betrayed and all because they loved JESUS and conformed not . WE were TOLD in this world we would have tribulation . WELL HERE IT COMES and thus it shall begin more and more . IN HIM , CHRIST JESUS , we have all peace , but in this world tribulation . its all coming to a great climatic hour . Let none fear man , fear loss , fear suffering , persecution or even death . CLING to the KING and understand only more , that to live is CHRIST to die is only gain . FORWARD , MARCH its BATTLE TIME .
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Jun 24, 2020 8:47:48 GMT -5
The question seems to be, can God love someone, yet still condemn them to eternal torment? Having thought about it, I think the answer is yes. I believe that his nature demands it. He is holy, and those who continually walk according to the flesh can have no part in his kingdom.
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Post by frienduff on Jun 24, 2020 8:56:15 GMT -5
The question seems to be, can God love someone, yet still condemn them to eternal torment? Having thought about it, I think the answer is yes. I believe that his nature demands it. He is holy, and those who continually walk according to the flesh can have no part in his kingdom. Lets sum it up with this reminder . JESUS WEPT over jerusalem and said , HOW OFTEN i would have GATHERED YOU under my wings as does a mother hen her chicks , ONLY YE WOULD NOT . NOW YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT DESOLATE . OH YES wrath and THE JUDGMENT can and will be given against all who rejected Christ , even though GOD was long suffering and desired none to perish . You are correct my friend .
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Post by frienduff on Jun 24, 2020 8:56:50 GMT -5
Therefore knowing the TERROR of GOD we persaude men .
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Post by watchful on Jun 24, 2020 9:16:38 GMT -5
The question seems to be, can God love someone, yet still condemn them to eternal torment? Having thought about it, I think the answer is yes. I believe that his nature demands it. He is holy, and those who continually walk according to the flesh can have no part in his kingdom. Yes.... it's His nature to burn up and consume all that is unholy, wicked and evil. It can't stand in His presence. But I think it's worth reflecting how His wrath is not an "emotion" any more than His love is an "emotion"...like we know those things as human beings. His ways are higher than our ways. So it's not that He has picked out a day in the future to suddenly lose His temper and have a hissy fit. His love has been suffering long but there is a day appointed that His "wrath" also will be REVEALED from heaven. Jesus/God will be fully revealed in all His nature, with nothing held back (restrained) and everyone that is not hidden in the cleft of the Rock like Moses was, will not be able to survive the revealing of all that He is, fully unveiled...consuming fire.....purifying light that will root out and burn up all that is defiled from His kingdom. IN HIM IS NO DARKNESS AT ALL. Every eye will see Him....and no man can see God and live, unless they are hid and sheltered in Christ Jesus. The book of Revelation is about His REVEALING.
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