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Post by watchful on Aug 22, 2020 17:10:26 GMT -5
Is it "wrong" to battle, fight, learn and grow to a better place in the Lord? Not in my bible it isn't. I consider that to such we are called....battle, fight, learn and grow.....and every soul has their own individual battles to fight. The Lord is the one who is leading, helping and teaching us through it all. Jesus said to take His yoke upon us and LEARN of Him. He sweated blood in His battle to submit to the Father's will. But once that victory was won, it was won, and He wasn't sweating it any more. The bible says even Jesus LEARNED obedience by the things which He suffered. Sister ponder that for a moment . JESUS DID EXPERIENCE , LEARN OBEDIANCE . aka , HE SUFFERED , THOUGH HE WAS ALREADY PERFECT , yet in the flesh HE SUFFERED , for our sakes JESUS was PERFECT , but the flesh is what must be crucified . HE crucified all sin in the flesh , THEN HE himself was crucified , TAKING the sins of OTHERS upon HIMSELF . OH YES . Now let us follow in his footsteps . I dont' believe for a minute that the verse which says Jesus learned obedience is implying that He sinned. I just am pointing out the learning factor in our walk with the Lord. If even the captain of our salvation needed to learn and suffer, then how much more do we. Jesus set the example.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 22, 2020 18:48:20 GMT -5
Sister ponder that for a moment . JESUS DID EXPERIENCE , LEARN OBEDIANCE . aka , HE SUFFERED , THOUGH HE WAS ALREADY PERFECT , yet in the flesh HE SUFFERED , for our sakes JESUS was PERFECT , but the flesh is what must be crucified . HE crucified all sin in the flesh , THEN HE himself was crucified , TAKING the sins of OTHERS upon HIMSELF . OH YES . Now let us follow in his footsteps . I dont' believe for a minute that the verse which says Jesus learned obedience is implying that He sinned. I just am pointing out the learning factor in our walk with the Lord. If even the captain of our salvation needed to learn and suffer, then how much more do we. Jesus set the example. OH i know dear sister . The beauty of it is , THOUGH HE WERE ALREADY PERFECT ........ Jesus did all , for OUR SAKE . Now leap up and praise the LORD my dear sister . You are loved .
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Post by watchful on Aug 23, 2020 6:53:41 GMT -5
I dont' believe for a minute that the verse which says Jesus learned obedience is implying that He sinned. I just am pointing out the learning factor in our walk with the Lord. If even the captain of our salvation needed to learn and suffer, then how much more do we. Jesus set the example. OH i know dear sister . The beauty of it is , THOUGH HE WERE ALREADY PERFECT ........ Jesus did all , for OUR SAKE . Now leap up and praise the LORD my dear sister . You are loved . Heb 5:6-10
As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 7:28
For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.
I've found there is often a kind of paradox to the things of God....for example scripture says we have been made perfect and yet are being made perfect.
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Post by watchful on Aug 23, 2020 7:07:48 GMT -5
Actually on second thought....there is a reason why those scriptures are there. Scripture doesn't say that Jesus was perfect when He walked this earth, it says He was without sin, ie, He walked perfectly. He was born with weak flesh the same as us and had to overcome His flesh just as we do, and I believe that is important to understand since He was our forerunner. And He did so perfectly. In the Garden of Gethsemane we see Him wrestling with His flesh and will and winning the victory. I think we need to understand that He was made perfect as those scriptures in Hebrew say. When He did not love His life unto death. (And then even more perfect of course in His resurrection.)
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Post by watchful on Aug 23, 2020 8:41:23 GMT -5
Just another thought, is that Jesus wasn't an ethereal being whose feet never touched the ground and who floated around with a halo on His head.....no, He was a MAN......born as a babe and had to grow up and learn as we do as believers. He had to learn to overcome as we do.....SO THAT in Him we could overcome also. He was touched with the feeling of our infirmities/weakness and was IN ALL WAYS TEMPTED like as we are, yet without sin because He always overcame every temptation.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 23, 2020 9:29:55 GMT -5
and yet .............................and yet ...................BEFORE ABRAHAM was I AM . NOW SING THOSE PRAISES TO THE GLORIOUS LORD . Leap up and dance a jig round that house . Praise the HOLY LORD . REJOICE IN THE LORD and again and again i say , REJOICE IN THE LORD . Being always THANKFUL UNTO HIM .
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Post by watchful on Aug 23, 2020 10:11:43 GMT -5
and yet .............................and yet ...................BEFORE ABRAHAM was I AM . NOW SING THOSE PRAISES TO THE GLORIOUS LORD . Leap up and dance a jig round that house . Praise the HOLY LORD . REJOICE IN THE LORD and again and again i say , REJOICE IN THE LORD . Being always THANKFUL UNTO HIM . Yes He was God in the flesh. Son of Man as well as Son of God.....and knowing Him better is what makes us all the more thankful!
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Aug 23, 2020 12:20:07 GMT -5
Lets just take a moment to reflect upon the character of Jesus. He was not one to try to be equal with God was He? He didnt try to take credit, He didnt try to get Gods glory... He always pointed to His Father for that didnt He? In Jesus' own words concerning being perfect He said:
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Paul was pretty good at mirroring this also as we see what he wrote to the Philippians:
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
notice in verse 15 he says those who are perfect may God reveal something to them, ***IF they be otherwise minded***? and the word perfect means to be complete... both in scriptures from Hebrews Watchful quoted and above in my post also. I think For Jesus His learning obedience was unto death. Death on the cross. Therefore, our journey to perfection is learning to die... so that we may live, so we may attain Jesus Christ. At no point in anyones life is God finished perfecting you. sanctifying you. even tho at the moment of salvation you are sanctified, you are being sanctified. and this is another reason osas is heresy. Salvation does indeed include sanctification. Its justification, sanctification, and glorification. Salvation is a three stranded cord... and we literally have been/being saved.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb ***slain from the foundation of the world***.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Aug 23, 2020 13:19:21 GMT -5
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
this verse alone shows proof of my words above when you consider tense. one is future, "that i may apprehend" while the other is past tense, "i am apprehended."
and what is interesting is both words are the same in the greek, Behold:
G2638 καταλαμβάνω katalambanō kat-al-am-ban'-o From G2596 and G1983; to take eagerly, that is, seize, possess, etc. (literally or figuratively): - apprehend, attain, come upon, comprehend, find, obtain, perceive, (over-) take. Total KJV occurrences: 15
Also look up the root words listed, pay attention to G1983.
we must obtain. This must be considered if you desire "to escape hellfire" we must not make light of Jesus parables either:
Pro 4:20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings. Pro 4:21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart. Pro 4:22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh. Pro 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life. Pro 4:24 Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee. Pro 4:25 Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee. Pro 4:26 Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established. Pro 4:27 Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil.
we must walk The Narrow Way. its not just a *poof* one time magical event. its how you live(zao)
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Post by watchful on Aug 23, 2020 14:24:32 GMT -5
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
this verse alone shows proof of my words above when you consider tense. one is future, "that i may apprehend" while the other is past tense, "i am apprehended."
and what is interesting is both words are the same in the greek, Behold:
G2638 καταλαμβάνω katalambanō kat-al-am-ban'-o From G2596 and G1983; to take eagerly, that is, seize, possess, etc. (literally or figuratively): - apprehend, attain, come upon, comprehend, find, obtain, perceive, (over-) take. Total KJV occurrences: 15
Also look up the root words listed, pay attention to G1983.
we must obtain. This must be considered if you desire "to escape hellfire" we must not make light of Jesus parables either:
Pro 4:20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings. Pro 4:21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart. Pro 4:22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh. Pro 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life. Pro 4:24 Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee. Pro 4:25 Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee. Pro 4:26 Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established. Pro 4:27 Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil.
we must walk The Narrow Way. its not just a *poof* one time magical event. its how you live(zao)
Amen...how we live and also grow.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 23, 2020 15:42:16 GMT -5
Lets just take a moment to reflect upon the character of Jesus. He was not one to try to be equal with God was He? He didnt try to take credit, He didnt try to get Gods glory... He always pointed to His Father for that didnt He? In Jesus' own words concerning being perfect He said: Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Paul was pretty good at mirroring this also as we see what he wrote to the Philippians: Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. notice in verse 15 he says those who are perfect may God reveal something to them, ***IF they be otherwise minded***? and the word perfect means to be complete... both in scriptures from Hebrews Watchful quoted and above in my post also. I think For Jesus His learning obedience was unto death. Death on the cross. Therefore, our journey to perfection is learning to die... so that we may live, so we may attain Jesus Christ. At no point in anyones life is God finished perfecting you. sanctifying you. even tho at the moment of salvation you are sanctified, you are being sanctified. and this is another reason osas is heresy. Salvation does indeed include sanctification. Its justification, sanctification, and glorification. Salvation is a three stranded cord... and we literally have been/being saved. Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb ***slain from the foundation of the world***. no matter what , in the end the true lamb knows something . They are the man on that cross next to JESUS . They know they never earned it , they only plead , LORD have MERCY UPON ME . AND JESUS will tell that one , TODAY will you be with me IN PARADISE . In essence it all begins the same way and ends the same way as the man on the cross, the simple thief who simply said , WE ARE GUILTY of THIS , BUT HE IS PERFECT , OH LORD REMEMBER US .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 23, 2020 15:47:27 GMT -5
For no matter what we suffer in this life , it is meant to only draw us closer to him and deeper into the realization that IT IS HE ALONE WE NEED . Our walk and our being worked on , WILL NOT END , TILL THE DAY we breath our last . BUT TILL THEN . LEARN WELL the pattern JESUS taught and the apostels later taught . CONTINUE IN IT . FOR In doing so ye shall both save yourself and those that hear you . But in the end , we are the thief on that cross . NEVER EARNING SALVATION , BUT CRYING UNTO HE WHO ALONE ALREADY DID . PRAISE BE TO JESUS . PRAISE BE TO JESUS . AND ITS WHy i make my war with the false unity all inclusive false love dung pile of death . IT DONT POINT to confession of JESUS , IT DONT claim YE MUST CALL UPON the NAME OFTHE LORD JESUS TO BE SAVED . HECK NO , that PILE OF UTTER STINK says , well i guess if i could sum it up with one word , ITS SAYS DEATH . GO OUT FAITHFUL TO JESUS FOR IT IS OUR FAITH IN HE ALONE that overcomes the world , not our false love and good works for unity and peace . IF we think JOHN did not point to JESUS as the only means of salvation . JUST wait till you all read the exhortation i am about to bring . JOHN EXPOSED the all inclusive lie as did all them apostels AS DID JESUS HIMSELF .
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