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Post by frienduff on Jun 19, 2018 9:13:26 GMT -5
She said here in the north , the so called free nations , we seem to be in heavy bondage . In the western free societies the most greatest of abominations has occurred . And its also going world wide . But notice it sprang mainly from , THE FREE SOCITIES . not the persecuted socities . When men focus , make their focus on seeing the concept of being free, as being any other concept THAN SPIRITUAL, this will happen. When the ideals of what makes one FEEL FREE becomes the focus , many truths GET SOLD OUT in order to have that type of freedom . Uprisings occurred so men could have the idea of what they THINK a free society IS . But it aint worked out too well HAS IT . The churches have done this too. Substituting SPIRITUAL FREEDOM , for Earthly freedom . The latter is bondage no matter how free the society thinks it is . It is far easier to run a people into BONDAGE under the feeling FREE concepts . Even though under hard persecution and bondage of king type feudal systems or emperor systems , The early CHURCH was truly FREE. Their focus was not on the vote , it was not on what would make LIFE simplier or easier for them. While they did pray that we could lead a peaceable life. THEY were never focused on DOING ALL to get that . We have become instruments of pawns , by holding dear to ideals of men of how we can have that freedom in this world . Slaves to systems that appear FREE, but are in great bondage of sin . All the while the focus is on , WHO can make my LIFE EASIER in this world . Left votes for left , right votes for right . and both have the concept this or that person will make MY LIFE easier . And all the while more and more truths were sold out TO have such system . We should have no fear , NO MATTER WHO is in office. Fear of being persecuted , has men vote , or who can fix the economy has men vote . WHEN our focus should be on REPENTANCE , ON HOLY LIVING . The system has been corrupted big time . the churches long , long ago, some were sold under concepts of church and state . DID the world really get all better under the newer systems than the king feudal ones . NO , it keeps getting worse . Either way it don't matter what system is in place . Men will do evil , always have , but its gotten far worse . HOW free are we in these so called FREE WORLD nations . I don't see us as being more free than those in persecuted countries . IN fact , I see them singing praises of JOY , no matter what is coming against them . Yet many here praise the system , YET look how spiritually starved most are . I say , we need only pray for men in power , but nothing else . Make the entire focus BACK ON GOD , ON CHRIST and no fear of loss or suffering . Their was a rich church metioned in sardis and a poor church mentioned in laodeciia. But when it came to the worlds goods, THEY WERE OPPSOITE . the poor suffering church , GOD called rich those who had it easy and were rich , HE CALLED POOR . THEN HE made the call, to be made RICH . BY persecution and trials , and be zealous and repent . WELL, here it comes . And its time and more than time , for our focus to be off the world systems , and SOLEY above on GOD . We can pray for leaders , but my advice only that . Just pray for them to repent and come to Christ . We can pray for them but have no hope in them . HOPE only in GOD and be prepared to lose all for HIS name sake . Not only that , BUT REJOICE when persecuted . and know this , HAPPY are you , WHEN you are persecuted ,chastenend . FOR all whom GOD loves HE does chasten . and more so , IF we be without chastisement , we are bastards and not sons . Our focus for the easier life , NEEDS TO DIE TODAY . AND we need to truly get all affections set above on GOD , fearing nothing that will cause us loss , suffering or even death . Fear ONLY GOD . Get the gospel out , focus on true exhortations which build the body up . WORRY not about democracy , communism or whatever . Cause whatever is going to occur, GOD IS IN CONTROL. IT IS even GODS will that the ten horns surrender to the beast . NOT because GOD approves of their evil, BUT HE WILL USE this . The time of the end is coming . GOD purposefully will send a STRONG DELSUION so that all who rejected truth , love of the truth , WILL be damned and believe the lie . GOD is doing all things according TO HIS OWN WILL. And it always will work for good to those who love HIM , and for destruction of those who DID NOT . First comes our great tribulation . THEN comes the wrath of GOD against those who persecuted the lambs. I truly wish we read our bibles more . We would learn CHRIST . WE would see the clear image OF WHO GOD really is . AND IF we truly have the SPIRIT it sure does guide us into all truth . We need to abandon politics , ideals about self defense , ideals about who can make our life easier in this world . And we need to focus on the ONE WHO saved us and WHO can KEEP US from falling , or we gonna fall. WE running out of time . WE Need to pray more , we need to be here for one another and pray for the church world wide to remain faithful through every trial and temptation . A massive delusion is crawling in , and then BAM , its going EXPLODE world wide fast .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 19, 2018 9:47:04 GMT -5
That’s the problem with democracy. Jesus is a king, not a politician. We don’t get votes in His kingdom. But most of us have no idea how to submit to kings. We don’t like our president, we vote against him. We don’t like our boss, we quit. We don’t like our parents, we move out at 18. Our society trains us to have no master.
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Post by John on Jun 19, 2018 10:20:31 GMT -5
Candance made a good point about how we are taught to stand against authorities we don't like. Look at all the "Resist" bumper stickers. As such, the church can feel like they won't submit to Jesus' lordship. That problem is with us. To me, freedom is a blessing, and so is our right to vote. When I have a vote, I am going to use it to keep the worst candidate out of office, which means I vote for the Republican 99.999 percent of the time.
The reason those living in good conditions tend to live more loose than those being persecuted is human nature. When we are in distress, we tend to rely on God more, and we forget him in good times, and that every good thing we have we owe to God. I like being blessed. I like living in a free country. I don't want a tyrant ruling over us so we will turn to God. The answer is not to not vote or hope for a tyrant to drive us to our knees. The answer is to live right when we are blessed and give thanks to the Lord daily.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 19, 2018 10:35:45 GMT -5
Let me just add that I don’t think it’s a sin to vote. If we feel led to engage our society in someway, then we should follow what the Lord is instructing us to do. Many Christians feel strongly that the Lord would have them vote for Trump. I am not here to say they were wrong. None of us fully see God’s plan. None of us can look at the Christian next to us and say that this person did not hear God’s instruction. So by no means do I think it’s a sin to support this or that politician. But we must be careful that we don’t conflate our vote with our spiritual position in God’s kingdom.
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Post by Abby-Joy on Jun 19, 2018 11:23:25 GMT -5
If I didn't know how corrupt the political system is and that they are all flip sides of the same coin... I'd probably have voted Trump (maybe). But I don't believe votes count... they put in who they need for the purpose of reaching their goals. They are all puppets. (sorry) I will say that on the surface, Trump seemed a better choice. I think someone would have to be crazy to vote for the other candidate! But since they will place who they want, I choose not to vote. I don't hold it against someone who feels votes count and vote "the lesser evil" ... I don't want to cast a vote for evil... if both choices are evil, then I can't justify endorsing one. I will just pray for whoever is in authority and do my best to follow God.
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Post by tlsitd on Jun 19, 2018 12:35:30 GMT -5
I'm not a political Christian and have never been. I don't vote. I pay taxes and obey the law and that's all I have to do with the government. Its affairs are none of my business. I honestly haven't noticed any difference in how this country has been running from administration to administration; it hasn't affected how I live and it doesn't have anything to do with what I'm focused on or concerned about: It's been wicked, it's still wicked, and it's getting worse, as we approach the end of days, according to God's eternal plan to bring all things to an end.
I'm not patriotic either. I'm a citizen of heaven in heart and in practice, and a citizen of the United States by birth. Jesus Christ is my King, and His enemies are my enemies. I don't care who the United States' enemies are. That's the government's business, not mine. God will take care of me no matter what king He sets up or removes, including the antichrist and the rulers under him. I will obey whatever laws don't violate or contradict God's, both now and when the antichrist is in power.
Frienduff gave a very good reminder about freedom and wealth from God's perspective vs man's. Most western Christians have adopted and been influenced by men's ideas about freedom and wealth, and they, like those Christians in Laodicea, think they're well off and doing fine, when they're really in bondage to all kinds of sins and ungodliness and are spiritually poor in the knowledge of God and in His power, virtue and good works.
Too many American Christians are more American than they are Christian. They've substituted the constitution of the United States for the teachings of the New Testament. Just because the government says you're free to do whatever you want as long as you don't break the law, doesn't mean that the same is acceptable to God. If we're in Christ, it's His law and His truth that we should be living by, not what people hold to be true or correct.
I would not die for the United States, but I will gladly die for Jesus Christ. America is not my mother, heavenly Jerusalem is.
I wish that more of my brothers in Christ were soldiers for the cause of Christ in a Scriptural way, rather than entangling themselves in earthly politics and physical warfare. We do not need Christian politicians and we certainly don't need Christian soldiers, which has never been God's desire or His will, contrary to what many Christians believe. It has never been God's will to make any nation a "Christian nation", but for Christians to make disciples of all nations, and to call people of all nations out of a world doomed to destruction and into the ark of Christ and God's eternal kingdom of righteousness, over which God will be King forever.
The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord, to turn whichever way He wills. Pray for politicians as the Lord leads, but remember that we are not here to reform this world, and we are not here to have a comfortable life and to have what the world has to offer us. We are here to be sanctified, to do the will of God, and to call others into Christ that they may do the same. Politics has nothing to do with this.
No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to please the one who enlisted him. (2 Timothy 2:4)
"My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But My kingdom is not from the world." (John 18:36)
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. (Ephesians 6:12)
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad.
Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed. (Romans 13:1-7)
(How do Christians deal with corrupt/unjust governments? By prayer (1 Timothy 2:1-4.) But our living peaceful and quiet lives is not primarily for our comfort and convenience but according to God's will and purpose, to glorify Him and to accomplish His goals. We are not entitled to peace and comfort in this world as Christians---from the government or otherwise---or to have the things that the world has to offer or to be able to do what it does; and peace, comfort and physical safety should not be our chief pursuits or concerns---as it is for many Christians who have forgotten who they are and what they're here for.)
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Post by frienduff on Jun 19, 2018 12:45:57 GMT -5
Candance made a good point about how we are taught to stand against authorities we don't like. Look at all the "Resist" bumper stickers. As such, the church can feel like they won't submit to Jesus' lordship. That problem is with us. To me, freedom is a blessing, and so is our right to vote. When I have a vote, I am going to use it to keep the worst candidate out of office, which means I vote for the Republican 99.999 percent of the time.
The reason those living in good conditions tend to live more loose than those being persecuted is human nature. When we are in distress, we tend to rely on God more, and we forget him in good times, and that every good thing we have we owe to God. I like being blessed. I like living in a free country. I don't want a tyrant ruling over us so we will turn to God. The answer is not to not vote or hope for a tyrant to drive us to our knees. The answer is to live right when we are blessed and give thanks to the Lord daily.
As time does continue more and more will be revealed . For years the false prophets cried , as they saw the tyrannical arm of Obama and the elite agenda forming against biblical chrisanity . False prophets and true ones seen the long arm of evil reaching out in more and more strength. And for years , by grace , some of us were hollering, don't hope in man to come rescue you . The solution would have been Preach repentance . Go to the leaders and churches and preach JONA style repentance . And then came the year of the prophesied mitt. OH they evangelicals were crying ALAS , alas GOD is raising one up . THE MITT he was called . Many a false prophet cried ALAS , alas , AND then utter fear . ROMNEY did not get in . THEN the false prophets and conservatives wondered , WHAT to do . AND I WATCHED them DO IT . Go to and behold what do they do , THEY ponder, they wonder , they marvel at how their Romney lost . GO to and behold what did they do . WE will be more Inclusive , we will reach the people in a way like OBAMA did . THEY SOLD OUT butero. most of them did not repent . BUT GOT worse . THEN the YEAR of the false prophets redemption came , ALAS , they false ones cried heavily. AND WOE it was the false ones WHO CRIED LOUDEST OF ALL THE TRUMP , WE GOT A SAVOIR , WE GOT a Cyrus , and HE WON . But this was not the year of their redemption . OH NO , IT WAS and IS delusion . FOR when a nation and churches get only worse , and worse . SPECT NOT A BLESSING . Expect a delusion which appears as a blessing to deceive the deceived who rejected THE TRUTH . And the hananiahs cheered , and said YE who warn that the YOKE of babylone would be upon us , This is not GODS PLAN. SO they made a wooden yoke of trump and placed it upon the neck of the evangelicals who had feared and they broke the yoke from off their necks and said ALAS the Trump will break the wooden yoke of babylone from off our necks . We will not see this yoke so long as he be here . And the few true said , Ye have broken the wooden yoke with your hopes in trump to deliver you from the dark king of Babylon and its system . BUT You prophesy falsely unto the people . The wooden yoke ye have broken off , WILL be replaced WITH AN IRON ONE . And though you repented not , but got worse and though you got your dreams O false prophets , ITs delusion . You will be carried into the delusion by and large of the all inclusive THROUGH the very yoke you thought would free you , you will be enslaved into the all inclusive by the very RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE you thought would save you . NOW HOW BOUT WE ALL PRAY BOUT THAT MESSAGE . CAUSE THIS IS ALL I GET . we better pray hard and fevernt . Cause all is not as it seems . TIS the age and times OF GREAT DELUSION .
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Post by John on Jun 19, 2018 13:24:10 GMT -5
I have never looked at these politicians as saviors, even the ones I like. I just know that given a choice of two people, one is generally better than the other, and since I have my one vote, I may as well use it.
Just looking at the Bible, and the Old Testament, the nation was effected by who the King was. I would much rather have had Josiah in power as opposed to Ahab. They didn't have a vote. The people were stuck with whoever inherited the throne. We aren't in that position in America.
As for what Lights said, I don't feel at all like she does. I am patriotic. I do love America. I see nothing wrong with that. When I read Jeremiah, I see a man that loved his country, and grieved over their sins. He didn't have the attitude that he didn't care what happened to Israel. I look at myself as having duel citizenship of the Kingdom of Heaven and America. I do agree with Lights that just because something is legal in America, that doesn't make it acceptable in the Kingdom of Heaven, and if there is a situation where the two nation's ideals part ways, my first allegiance is to the Kingdom of Heaven and King Jesus over America and Donald Trump. God never tells us in his Word we are wrong to love our nation of birth, or wrong to defend it for that matter. God ordered the children of Israel into battle numerous times, and is planning on sending Jesus back with an army to kill the anti-Christ and his followers in battle. He doesn't forbid defending one's country in time of war.
Who is in office does effect me. I have been harmed greatly by Obama and the damage done to my health insurance as a result of Obamacare. It has caused my insurance premiums to go through the roof, and I have far worse coverage. In addition to that, had we been able to elect enough Republican Presidents with a Republican majority in the Senate enough times in a row, there is a good possibility Roe verses Wade would have been overturned a long time ago. I can see the practical reality of how elections effect us. I feel like people that put Trump on a pedestal and turn him into a savior are wrong, but there is no question in my mind that Hillary Clinton would have harmed this nation in ways we never experienced, simply through a single Supreme Court nomination. The church needs to be smart and look at the big picture concerning how we are effected by decisions made by the government.
If someone in their conscience doesn't want to vote, or they don't want to go to war because of their beliefs, I can respect that, but I don't feel like the Lord is leading me in that direction at all. I feel like I should vote and I have no conscience about defending America if a war broke out.
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Post by frienduff on Jun 19, 2018 13:50:29 GMT -5
When I read Jeremiah, I see a man that loved his country,
BUT HIS COUNTRY WAS GODS COUNTRY . their is a big difference . THE JEWS WERE the NATION OF GOD ALL MIGHTY HIMSELF . JEREMIAH LOVED the PEOPLE of GOD . HE did not stand for any other nation , kingdom , ONLY GODS . NOW we have a heavenly COUNTRY , NATION which we are not ashamed of . I may live in America and pray for it , but its not my nation any more than any other nation is . THE KINGDOM is GODS , THE NATION is GODS , the CITY is GODS . ITS ALL SPIRITUAL. I swear no loyality to any nation . BUT the HEAVENLY NATION which is above and within all believers . Problem with earth nations is , we got christains in all those nations . IF they loyal to their earthen nation , they will defend it against other nations . An example . a patriot of Germany DENFENDS Germany , of America , denfends America . But we got christains in ALL NATIONS . YET WE are ONE NATION UNDER GOD . THE HEAVENLY nation . and I have no allegiance to the nations of men . it would not have mattered where I was born . IN fact , TRUTH is , ALL the nations and all the govts are CORRUPT . WHY on earth do I hold allegiance to evil . NO I obey ONLY its laws AND So long as those laws do not contradict GOD , HIS laws. HIS sayings . Butero, let us flee all the natural realm and grab hold with our all in all, UNTO THE HEAVENLY ONE . for all these nations will one day be burned up . BUT NOT the KINGDOM of Heaven OR those in it . NOW throw those hands up butero.
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Post by tlsitd on Jun 19, 2018 14:36:14 GMT -5
When I read Jeremiah, I see a man that loved his country, BUT HIS COUNTRY WAS GODS COUNTRY . their is a big difference . THE JEWS WERE the NATION OF GOD ALL MIGHTY HIMSELF . JEREMIAH LOVED the PEOPLE of GOD . HE did not stand for any other nation , kingdom , ONLY GODS . NOW we have a heavenly COUNTRY , NATION which we are not ashamed of . I may live in America and pray for it , but its not my nation any more than any other nation is . THE KINGDOM is GODS , THE NATION is GODS , the CITY is GODS . ITS ALL SPIRITUAL. I swear no loyality to any nation . BUT the HEAVENLY NATION which is above and within all believers . Problem with earth nations is , we got christains in all those nations . IF they loyal to their earthen nation , they will defend it against other nations . An example . a patriot of Germany DENFENDS Germany , of America , denfends America . But we got christains in ALL NATIONS . YET WE are ONE NATION UNDER GOD . THE HEAVENLY nation . and I have no allegiance to the nations of men . it would not have mattered where I was born . IN fact , TRUTH is , ALL the nations and all the govts are CORRUPT . WHY on earth do I hold allegiance to evil . NO I obey ONLY its laws AND So long as those laws do not contradict GOD , HIS laws. HIS sayings . Butero, let us flee all the natural realm and grab hold with our all in all, UNTO THE HEAVENLY ONE . for all these nations will one day be burned up . BUT NOT the KINGDOM of Heaven OR those in it . NOW throw those hands up butero. Amen.
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Post by John on Jun 19, 2018 14:46:05 GMT -5
I see no need to argue over the issue, but God saw fit to place me in America, and governments are from God, so what I said before is still my position. If others disagree, no bad feelings. That reality of God's heavenly country was known by Abraham before the law of Moses was given, and long before Jeremiah was born.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jun 19, 2018 23:25:21 GMT -5
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men. I do not care for politicians. I do not care for double speak. nor do i like crooked ways. I didnt make the rules, ...But i am in this world, and while i am here i will do anything and everything i can to not live under tyranny, and i would rather be dead than have to see my family live as a slave to tyranny and commies. GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!
Edit: God is the one that establishes empires/countries/authority. therefore i say, government should be embraced, because it is the lawful way. it is order, and not lawlessness.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2018 8:01:16 GMT -5
Bible says we are to seek first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness.......as strangers passing through this world. Though I don't believe that means we are to neglect the natural realm entirely....that wouldn't bring Him glory. It's a matter of our focus and priorities and what our hearts are set upon, and of course being led by the Lord in everything. To me voting is just a way of hiring administrators to take care of the work that pertains to government, it's just a practical issue, not sinful in itself. Just like someone who owns a business would hire foremen or administrators to do certain jobs in their company, as a matter of practical necessity. Daniel and Joseph both worked for earthly "government" and glorified God in their positions...they did their work as unto the Lord, for His glory, but did not neglect His kingdom in their hearts. It only becomes a problem if we become too enamored and focused on these practical things of the world......those who place their affections and trust in earthly government and have their hearts set on enjoying life in this world, instead of seeking the Lord and His unseen kingdom, well I think we can expect Him to start shaking the things that have taken our hearts captive and that we are trusting in besides Him....He is a jealous God and wants all of our hearts.
So yes, it does seem we are about due, here in the 'free world'....it is God's mercy for our eternal good. The fall of Babylon is all about the false gods the people are trusting in and enamored with being pulled down in order to set them free of them, to be able to return to the Lord and go serve Him in His land (kingdom) again, rebuilding the temple and city that had been neglected all those years of captivity to the idols of this world...seeking HIS kingdom again.
Believers who are living under oppressive governments are going through that fire and shaking right now, they are being purified.....and our turn is coming here in the west. Trying conditions on the ground also can mean an opportunity for the gospel....it can mean that hearts are being ploughed and a harvest is being ripened, for the gospel, and I can't see that in any other light than that it is the goodness of God.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jun 20, 2018 14:22:14 GMT -5
I do not think we should ignore government because we are citizens first to Gods Kingdom... I think we should do all we can to establish righteousness in the earth. Someone will rule and reign, and if they are wicked we will all suffer.
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Post by John on Jun 20, 2018 14:30:59 GMT -5
I do not think we should ignore government because we are citizens first to Gods Kingdom... I think we should do all we can to establish righteousness in the earth. Someone will rule and reign, and if they are wicked we will all suffer. A-men. That is how I see it too.
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