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Post by John on Oct 5, 2020 8:27:43 GMT -5
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 1 Corinthians 7:14
This is one of those verses that has been largely ignored. If I simply take it as written, it appears to me that it is saying that if you are married, and you are a Christian, and your spouse is not, the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believing spouse. Remember that Biblically, the husband and wife are considered one flesh in the sight of God.
Then comes another interesting twist. If the parents of a child were not both sanctified, the children of that couple would be unclean. Most people assume that all children are automatically clean, and most teach an age of accountability exists. If the children of parents who are not saved are unclean, what happens to them if they die? Also, what happens to all the children being aborted? Christians would not murder their own children, lest they are not really Christians, because the Bible states that murderers shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Lets say that the wife has an abortion behind a believing husband's back? In a case like that, I would have to assume the child is clean because of the believing Father. Lots to consider here, in this much overlooked verse. What are your thoughts?
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Post by frienduff on Oct 5, 2020 12:02:22 GMT -5
John we running out of time my friend . My thoughts are better get dug into those bibles and be ready .
The unbelieving husband might be santicified , but we know that does make them saved . Because all unbelievers etc , they go to the lake of fire .
Ps , i know not what this age of accountabilty is , but babies do go to heaven . Do notice in , i think its exodus God destroys all who had not faith in HIM about the promised land
in the desert over a forty year span . BUT NOTICE what he says , your children , those who could not YET discern evil etc , They will enter into the glorious land later .
THERE is some kind of age wherin one knows enough . But we dont know that age . SO what do we do , we teach them babies the way of the LORD and when they be old they shall not depart .
Remember we always rightly divide all scripture so as we can better understand some scriptures that might not be too easy to understand at first .
We got us some massive betrayal coming john . And i suggest we dig in and cling to JESUS and that bible big time . Because fear can cause many to fall away .
JOHH . we got us a betrayal a coming my friend . Be ready . And when i say betrayal i mean even by those we thought were for us .
I am not so much speaking about this site as i am in higher places . Be on guard . One way or another the world was gonna unite under the beast . It was written that all who were not in the lambs book of life
will worship the beast . And many will come out from amongst us , not just in heart but in word as well . The harlot has been busy my friend seducing everything right into its trap of a delusion
that shall embrace the beast .
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Post by frienduff on Oct 5, 2020 12:03:40 GMT -5
plus if we read a bit farther paul says , how do you know that ye wont win them , save them , aka they wont eventually come to beleive in JESUS . And he was speaking about the unbelieving spouse .
So we know they aint saved while in unbelief . THEY have to be WON , aka come to JESUS .
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Post by John on Oct 5, 2020 12:18:41 GMT -5
There are a few problems with what you said frienduff. First of all, if we are going by the age given by God concerning the children of Israel, we know the age of accountability is 20. Second, 1 Corinthians says the children of unsanctified parents are unclean. Ever read of anything unclean going to heaven? You have a good point about winning your spouse, but that could be about unity and peace. Remember that this was about strife that was leading towards separation.
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Post by frienduff on Oct 5, 2020 12:24:54 GMT -5
There are a few problems with what you said frienduff . First of all, if we are going by the age given by God concerning the children of Israel, we know the age of accountability is 20. Second, 1 Corinthians says the children of unsanctified parents are unclean. Ever read of anything unclean going to heaven? You have a good point about winning your spouse, but that could be about unity and peace. Remember that this was about strife that was leading towards separation.
Concering the spouse . paul says For how do ye know ye wont SAVE them . its not about unity and peace . That is about salvation . Jesus said WHOEVER denies HIM he will DENY . We must always remember that . I mean if i was married a muslim who denies JESUS , my being married to her , Wont save her . She gotta repent . unbelief is unbelief . And it says the unbelieving and etc will go to the lake of fire . Be encouraged john . I have no idea what these churches are teaching anymore these days . But we gotta stick to that gosple . No matter what , if one denies JESUS , HE denies THEM . Always let us remember that . |
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Post by John on Oct 5, 2020 12:41:07 GMT -5
There are a few problems with what you said frienduff . First of all, if we are going by the age given by God concerning the children of Israel, we know the age of accountability is 20. Second, 1 Corinthians says the children of unsanctified parents are unclean. Ever read of anything unclean going to heaven? You have a good point about winning your spouse, but that could be about unity and peace. Remember that this was about strife that was leading towards separation.
Concering the spouse . paul says For how do ye know ye wont SAVE them . its not about unity and peace . That is about salvation . Jesus said WHOEVER denies HIM he will DENY . We must always remember that . I mean if i was married a muslim who denies JESUS , my being married to her , Wont save her . She gotta repent . unbelief is unbelief . And it says the unbelieving and etc will go to the lake of fire . Be encouraged john . I have no idea what these churches are teaching anymore these days . But we gotta stick to that gosple . No matter what , if one denies JESUS , HE denies THEM . Always let us remember that .
You have convinced me on the saved issue, but not on unclean babies going to heaven. Saved does mean saved.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Oct 5, 2020 16:04:03 GMT -5
I don't know what this has to do with heaven or hell. People with unclean sicknesses/situations in the OT could still be candidates for Abraham's bosom. Lazarus died in very unclean conditions (under the law) but he made Abraham's bosom. It's always seemed to me that clean here meant what clean meant under the law -- fit for social contact. Children who lived in a heathen family with no Christian benefactor would be totally alienated from the church, and even if they wanted to attend a church meeting they'd have no business being there. Furthermore Christian children would be discouraged from having worldly friends. No social contact with unclean people. But if a child attended church because of the mom or dad, he would be an acceptable Christian playmate. Most Christian parents today (at least the good ones) understand this by intuition. Once the child is old enough to choose Christ for himself, and he demonstrates that he loves the Lord regardless of his parents, then he would be treated as an individual.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Oct 5, 2020 16:11:25 GMT -5
And let me add that churches today still pretty much practice this even for spouses. If a woman in a church has an unbelieving husband, and he visits once or twice, the church will see him as part of the family even as they pray for his salvation. They'll invite him to dinners, maybe send him a Christmas gift, etc, almost as if he's a church member, hoping this will get him to visit more often. There's no delusion of him being saved -- everyone knows he needs salvation -- but he's under the church's cover. This is better than him not having a wife in church at all.
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Post by frienduff on Oct 5, 2020 17:29:04 GMT -5
And let me add that churches today still pretty much practice this even for spouses. If a woman in a church has an unbelieving husband, and he visits once or twice, the church will see him as part of the family even as they pray for his salvation. They'll invite him to dinners, maybe send him a Christmas gift, etc, almost as if he's a church member, hoping this will get him to visit more often. There's no delusion of him being saved -- everyone knows he needs salvation -- but he's under the church's cover. This is better than him not having a wife in church at all. R This is correct . they are not saved , but it sure is better to have a believing spouse . the chances of conversion are increased . But we know they are not saved till they repent and believe . And by all means we treat even our enemies good . SO of course we gonna treat an unbeliving spouse well and point them to JESUS as often as we can . Candance . i want us to really ponder on this next thing . I see all over the bible where GOD says more than once , HIS desire is not the death of the wicked but rather they repent . God is not going to send a helpless baby to hell . I truly believe the babies are covered by His love and grace . Because what evil HAS a baby actually done . Crying and wetting pants is not a sin . And children , i mean small ones , they cant discern fully yet . If a year old baby dies of sids , i have no doubt that lil baby goes to heaven . IF i be wrong then i am wrong . GOD is right no matter what HE does . BUT look at what even the scriptures says . GOD is full of mercy and compassion . I dont teach no certain age thing . What we ought to do is live as though our mission is to teach them JESUS from the womb to the tomb . I serve GOD no matter what HE does . Even if HE Did send babies to hell i would serve HIM . BUT i do not see that at all . I see GOD as full of compassion on those infants that dont know a thing . |
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Post by frienduff on Oct 5, 2020 17:33:32 GMT -5
Concering the spouse . paul says For how do ye know ye wont SAVE them . its not about unity and peace . That is about salvation . Jesus said WHOEVER denies HIM he will DENY . We must always remember that . I mean if i was married a muslim who denies JESUS , my being married to her , Wont save her . She gotta repent . unbelief is unbelief . And it says the unbelieving and etc will go to the lake of fire . Be encouraged john . I have no idea what these churches are teaching anymore these days . But we gotta stick to that gosple . No matter what , if one denies JESUS , HE denies THEM . Always let us remember that .
You have convinced me on the saved issue, but not on unclean babies going to heaven. Saved does mean saved.
, No matter what GOD does HE is righteous and just . But john , Calvin was off on some stuff . A baby aint even old enough to know to BELIEVE IN JESUS or NOT TOO . I dont teach an age of accountabilty . We need to teach those children from the womb to the tomb . BUT john , KNOWING GOD IS LOVE , and no i aint talking that false love stuff , I believe those babies are saved . |
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Post by John on Oct 5, 2020 17:35:55 GMT -5
You have convinced me on the saved issue, but not on unclean babies going to heaven. Saved does mean saved.
, No matter what GOD does HE is righteous and just . But john , Calvin was off on some stuff . A baby aint even old enough to know to BELIEVE IN JESUS or NOT TOO . I dont teach an age of accountabilty . We need to teach those children from the womb to the tomb . BUT john , KNOWING GOD IS LOVE , and no i aint talking that false love stuff , I believe those babies are saved .
What about it saying they are unclean?
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Post by frienduff on Oct 5, 2020 17:38:22 GMT -5
, No matter what GOD does HE is righteous and just . But john , Calvin was off on some stuff . A baby aint even old enough to know to BELIEVE IN JESUS or NOT TOO . I dont teach an age of accountabilty . We need to teach those children from the womb to the tomb . BUT john , KNOWING GOD IS LOVE , and no i aint talking that false love stuff , I believe those babies are saved .
What about it saying they are unclean?
I dont know . That is a point . I would say its better we just leave this one alone . Let GOD do as HE does . I do think they are and will still be saved . But who really knows . That is why its better to leave this subject alone . |
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Oct 5, 2020 17:41:11 GMT -5
I don't know how any sin can be held to a child's account before the age of accountability. That's the whole point. Sinners today end up in hell for their own bad decisions, not Adam's. Yes the curse of Adam gives us sinful impulses, but the Bible says that unintentional/unwitting sins aren't held against us. A toddler's impulses inherited from Adam are not intentional sins. Death came through Adam, and sinful impulses came through Adam, but nowhere does the Bible say any human goes to hell having done nothing wrong just because of Adam.
If we want to say that unclean in the law equals doomed to hell for sin, that would mean a faithful Jewish woman was in sin once a month. How was she sinning during her monthly process? Why would she go to hell for dying in that time? Unclean in the law didn't automatically mean sin.
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Post by John on Oct 5, 2020 17:41:49 GMT -5
I don't know what this has to do with heaven or hell. People with unclean sicknesses/situations in the OT could still be candidates for Abraham's bosom. Lazarus died in very unclean conditions (under the law) but he made Abraham's bosom. It's always seemed to me that clean here meant what clean meant under the law -- fit for social contact. Children who lived in a heathen family with no Christian benefactor would be totally alienated from the church, and even if they wanted to attend a church meeting they'd have no business being there. Furthermore Christian children would be discouraged from having worldly friends. No social contact with unclean people. But if a child attended church because of the mom or dad, he would be an acceptable Christian playmate. Most Christian parents today (at least the good ones) understand this by intuition. Once the child is old enough to choose Christ for himself, and he demonstrates that he loves the Lord regardless of his parents, then he would be treated as an individual.
This is an interesting take on unclean. Let me ponder on this. I know that I do not want those babies going to hell, anymore than I want them killed in the first place by abortionists.
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Post by John on Oct 5, 2020 17:46:48 GMT -5
I don't know how any sin can be held to a child's account before the age of accountability. That's the whole point. Sinners today end up in hell for their own bad decisions, not Adam's. Yes the curse of Adam gives us sinful impulses, but the Bible says that unintentional/unwitting sins aren't held against us. A toddler's impulses inherited from Adam are not intentional sins. Death came through Adam, and sinful impulses came through Adam, but nowhere does the Bible say any human goes to hell having done nothing wrong just because of Adam. If we want to say that unclean in the law equals doomed to hell for sin, that would mean a faithful Jewish woman was in sin once a month. How was she sinning during her monthly process? Why would she go to hell for dying in that time? Unclean in the law didn't automatically mean sin.
Great points about sins that are not intentional, but I do have a question. Where do we get the idea there is an age of accountability?
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