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Post by frienduff on Oct 8, 2020 22:01:55 GMT -5
YEs , keep praying for the babies .
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Post by frienduff on Oct 8, 2020 22:07:19 GMT -5
What joe biden means , is if i say HECK yeah i am gonna pack it , that will become the entire topic . HE SLIPPED UP . THEY GONNA put liberals on it and them babies will have no chance but to continue to be led to the slaughter . AND they will pass a law that says a baby can be born alive and left to die .
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Post by frienduff on Oct 8, 2020 22:07:49 GMT -5
Keep praying for the babies .
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Post by Giller on Oct 11, 2020 16:00:16 GMT -5
Mat 12:40 (40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Now there may be different opinions on this heart of the earth thing.
Now the word in the Greek is this:
(Strong's concordance)
(G2588 καρδία kardia kar-dee'-ah
Prolonged from a primary κάρ kar (Latin cor, “heart”); the heart, that is, (figuratively) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by analogy) the middle: - (+ broken-) heart (-ed). Total KJV occurrences: 160)
So it is talking about he middle or center of the earth.
Now the phrase "the heart of the earth" is taken to mean a few things, some say that it means that Jesus was in the grave for 3 days and nights, and others will take it to mean that he was in the center of the earth 3 days and 3 nights.
Now the word grave just refers to the place were a person's dead body was laid, which it can be placed in a tomb, or buried in a certain place.
We know that Jesus' body was not buried in the earth but rather placed in a tomb, and it does not say that Jesus' body was placed in the center of the tomb.
We know his body was in the grave, but also we know that he also, in spirit, went to preach to the spirits in prison, and also to the dead that were going to live according to God in the spirit.
1Pe 3:18-20 (18) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 4:5-6 (5) Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. (6) For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
So Jesus went to preach to the spirits in prison, which were the disobedient of Noah's day, and it was done so through the quickening of the Spirit, now the disobedient were not in paradise, but rather in hell, but what Christ told them, I know not, but on that very same day, possibly even seconds later or so, he went to preach the gospel to the dead in paradise, which would live according to God in the spirit, and become born again through Christ's resurrection.
The same day of his death, he went to paradise:
Luk 23:43 (43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Both hell and paradise were in the heart of the earth.
And hell today is in the heart of the earth.
But there was a great gulf between them.
Luk 16:22-26 (22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; (23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. (24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. (25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. (26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
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Post by John on Oct 12, 2020 8:02:08 GMT -5
Here's some food for thought about Genesis 3. If Adam spiritually died that day, why did he continue in a dialogue with the Lord, and why did the Lord prophesy over him? Furthermore, why were they removed from the garden? Lest they eat the tree of life and live forever. In other words, lest they reverse the curse of death that came to their bodies. Before that day, there's no sign that Adam was supposed to be mortal at all. He died that day because he became mortal. The very concept of death entered creation at that time. The words "spiritual death" are added to Genesis by teachers. Also, when we read God's words about the curse put on Adam, we don't find "spiritually dead" as part of the curse. We don't find spiritual separation from God as part of the curse. We find that planet earth is damaged, crops will be precarious, hard work will be required to survive, and bodies return to dust upon death. Show me anywhere in Genesis any kind of teaching about Adam's children being born in a state of unbelief. When Paul mentions Adam in 1 Corinthians 15, what is he teaching? Resurrection of the dead in bodily form. Not spiritual rebirth, but actual immortality. For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. -- Romans 5:13:14If death reigned from Adam to Moses, and this is spiritual death, then we'll have to explain Enoch, Noah, Abraham, and Jacob. Again it's almost as if this is speaking of mortality. Before there was a law of Moses to judge people for, yet Abraham had to die like a mortal, why? Not because Adam's guilt was imputed to Abraham, but because Adam's mortality was. Have another look at Romans 5. Paul didn't say all are born in sin, all are made of sin, or any such. He said all people end up sinning. The natural course of human life is to become a sinner and die. Read Romans 5 through this lens and see if it doesn't make sense. Also, I will make this challenge. Aside from David (who was clearly one of God's elect) saying sin was involved in his conception, show me any Bible passage that says babies are spiritually dead and guilty of sin. After the fall of Adam, there is no question that there were men that continued to have a relationship with God. We see that throughout the Bible, but here is why I believe in the doctrine of original sin. All mankind is being punished for the sins of our Father Adam. God did not just force Adam and Eve out of the garden. Do you see Abel or Seth having access to the tree of life? Why, when they did not actually commit any sin? The sin of Adam was imputed to them, as it was on all of mankind from that day forward. When the judgments were pronounced upon Adam and Eve, they did not stop with them. They effected all of mankind.
You mention that the words "died spiritually" are not in the text, and that is true. That is perhaps not the best way to describe what occurred. It is not like God never saved anyone after that, and we have no reason to think God cast Adam and Eve into hell. We do know that an animal died to provide coats to cover their nakedness, and many believe this was the first animal sacrifice to cover the sins committed by man. It likely was. The relationship between Adam and Eve changed, and they no longer seemed to have daily communication with God as they had before, but there is no evidence to suggest that God ignored them. It is not about any of that, but it is about how the fall of Adam effected the whole human race, and if you are suggesting that this does not occur because the sins of the Fathers are not imputed to their children, then all the rest of humanity should not be under the curse, and should all have access to the tree of life, yet we know that is not the case. Jesus came to redeem all of mankind, not just Adam. Mankind fell when Adam fell. It is obvious when you read the scriptures.
There is no reason for anyone to have to find additional instances for where a person is said to be unclean at birth, when we have the one example with David. All we need is a single scripture stating this to show it is true. That verse is part of the Bible. Why should we need more? Everything changed after Adam sinned, not just for him, but for all mankind. Even what is sin changed for us. Before the fall, Adam had one thing he was told not to do. Look at all the things we are to abstain from! It would be easy to live in the garden of Eden, especially knowing Adam's story, and avoid eating from the fruit of a single tree, compared to what we have to deal with. Why are we being punished for what Adam did if sin did not come on all mankind? Just looking at this alone to me proves the doctrine of original sin is true.
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Post by John on Oct 12, 2020 8:07:37 GMT -5
Under the old covenant, people who believed, when they died, did not go to heaven, but rather to a place called paradise which was under the earth, and there was a gulf between hell and paradise. Mat 12:40 (40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 1Pe 3:18-20 (18) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. Luk 23:43 (43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. On the day Jesus died, Jesus said he would be with the thief on the cross, in paradise. No one was born again under the old covenant. And God can speak to a person who has a dead spirit, which he spoke to us, to lead us unto Christ as an unbeliever. Joh 3:3-5 (3) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (4) Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? (5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. In order for a man to be able to be born again, the resurrection had to take place, and also the Holy Ghost had to be sent back. 1Pe 1:3 (3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, So obviously under the old covenant, the resurrection had not yet taken place, therefore no-one was born again, for we are begotten again by the resurrection of Jesus, Jesus, Jesus !!!!!!!
And you cannot enter into the kingdom of God unless you are born again. Joh 3:8 (8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Act 2:2 (2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. That is interesting Giller, and I agree with you that nobody was born again while living in Old Testament times, but I do believe that after Jesus Christ rose from the dead, those who were faithful servants of God that lived before the cross were then born again. That transformation was delayed, but did eventually occur.
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Post by John on Oct 12, 2020 8:13:57 GMT -5
Rom 5:12-15 (12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (15) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. If you look at the context of these scriptures, you will see that it is covering from the time period of Adam, unto the giving of the law. And it mentions until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law, nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses. The written law came from Moses, but they still had the law that was in their hearts from the period of Adam to Moses. This death is talking about spiritual death, and then it talks about the free gift in verse 15, which we are saved by grace through faith. Death also reigned after Moses, just here it was covering the time of Adam to Moses. Even during that time period, from between Adam and Moses, the people were still held accountable for certain things, which tells me that they did know some things were wrong in the sight of God. Clearly Cain knew it was wrong to kill his brother, and God punished him for his sin. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins, and then there is the story of Noah's flood. I believe that God did give mankind a basic knowledge of right and wrong, and we know that is the case because of what is said about the effects of eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. A certain knowledge of right and wrong would come upon those who ate that fruit. It was not necessary to write those things down on tables of stone. Once the Law of Moses came along, they were given a laundry list of things they were not allowed to do, and things they had to do. Now they were accountable for all of that.
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Post by frienduff on Oct 12, 2020 9:24:54 GMT -5
Under the old covenant, people who believed, when they died, did not go to heaven, but rather to a place called paradise which was under the earth, and there was a gulf between hell and paradise. Mat 12:40 (40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 1Pe 3:18-20 (18) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. Luk 23:43 (43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. On the day Jesus died, Jesus said he would be with the thief on the cross, in paradise. No one was born again under the old covenant. And God can speak to a person who has a dead spirit, which he spoke to us, to lead us unto Christ as an unbeliever. Joh 3:3-5 (3) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (4) Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? (5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. In order for a man to be able to be born again, the resurrection had to take place, and also the Holy Ghost had to be sent back. 1Pe 1:3 (3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, So obviously under the old covenant, the resurrection had not yet taken place, therefore no-one was born again, for we are begotten again by the resurrection of Jesus, Jesus, Jesus !!!!!!!
And you cannot enter into the kingdom of God unless you are born again. Joh 3:8 (8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Act 2:2 (2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. That is interesting Giller , and I agree with you that nobody was born again while living in Old Testament times, but I do believe that after Jesus Christ rose from the dead, those who were faithful servants of God that lived before the cross were then born again. That transformation was delayed, but did eventually occur.
Yes and remember what paul said . These died in faith , they saw and knew the KING was coming . Yes they had faith in the savoir who had not yet come and were looking for His coming . These died in faith . Yes indeed . Even as abraham beleived GOD . But blessed are your eyes and your ears . Many were and had been waiting for generations for the coming of Immanuel . Yes indeed . And blessed were those who finally Did see this Savoir . AND blessed are those now , who have not seen , BUT DO BELEIVE . Yes indeed . Now we ,as have many wait for HIS second coming . OH let the LORD be praised .
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