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Post by tlsitd on Jun 23, 2018 20:15:53 GMT -5
I am not a "Protestant". My faith did not originate from a protest against the Roman Catholic "church"; it is the original and true faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. (The Catholics should be called "Counterfeiters", because they counterfeited my religion. I did not "break away" from theirs.)
I am not a "Conservative Christian". Christianity is by its very doctrine conservative compared to what the world does and believes, and any Christian who is obedient to that doctrine will be considered "conservative" by the world---as well as by Christians who are not obedient to New Testament doctrine as they should be. (There is no "conservative" or "liberal" in Christianity---only degrees of obedience to doctrine.)
I am not a "Fundamentalist". Any Christian who doesn't accept and isn't obedient to the fundamental truths and teachings of Christianity is simply apostate and heretical.
I am not an "Evangelical Christian". Christianity is evangelical; there is no other kind of Christianity. If a Christian isn't evangelical, he's just not doing what he ought to be.
I am not a "Trinitarian". There is only one God, and He is triune, and Christians worship Him. Anyone who claims to be a Christian but worships a "God" who isn't triune is not a Christian but something else.
If you want to know what I am, open the New Testament and read its teachings. All Christians should be reflected in those; and "Christian" is enough to describe anyone who lives according to that and of whom what is written therein is true.
C is for Christ, who lives in me; (Romans 8:9) H is for Holy, as I'm called to be; (1 Peter 1:14-16) R is for Righteous in Christ alone; (Romans 3:23,24) I is for Indebted; I'm not my own. (Romans 8:12,13) S is for Saved from sins and from hell; (Romans 8:1) T is for Truth that I will not sell; (Luke 8:15) I is for Immortality sought; (Romans 2:6,7) A is for All that Jesus bought; (Revelation 5:9) N is for a New creation... (2 Corinthians 5:17)
(That is what I mean by "Christian".)
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Post by frienduff on Jun 23, 2018 21:32:37 GMT -5
THAT IS RIGHT SISTER . You praise the LORD .
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Post by Sister on Jun 23, 2018 21:47:45 GMT -5
Sister,
Not one of these titles are in the bible for they are only made up terms by the learned to divide the Christian land further.
We are either walking in the full truth or we are not, and Christ made none of us Lords over each other, but told us all to serve one another as he serves us.
We have all started off on the milk, and received the commandments of Christ, but if we want to take it further and be fed with knowledge, true doctrine, we have to continue in the Word of God for that, for that is where all the meat is, in the holy scriptures. And with that meat, we can use it to edify one another, share, correct, rebuke, prove, and establish true doctrine so we know exactly what is coming and proclaim it before it happens.
If the Word of God is given to us for reproof, and we ignore, or run away, or remain silent because it doesn't fit our doctrine, then we are not putting the truth first like we should, and if we reject truth, then we are rejecting Christ, the Word of God who is daily knocking on our door, asking us to let him in so that he can fill us up even more and grow.
We were told to work out our own salvation, and and this does not mean it will be a smooth ride, for it's a journey and we will make mistakes along the way, fall, and get back up, believe on a certain thing, until we find a scripture that cancels that out. The whole picture has to harmonise and flow, and one part cannot contradict the other or else we become stuck, so it's back to the drawing board.
The Word is always sharpening us, for the Lord does not want us mixing the spirit of truth with the spirit of error.
Now anyone can preach the milk. Even deceiving pastors preach the milk wonderfully, convicting many to come to Christ, ....A wonderful preacher does not mean that he is a true servant of the Lord, and the only way to tell if someone is truly in the Lord, is to hear his doctrine when going further than the gospels, ....on what's to come, whether it is the spirit of truth or the spirit of error speaking. Without us reading and finding out for ourselves we can never tell, or be none the wiser, and will only have ourselves to blame in the end.
The Word is the final authority on any matter, and interpretations are just opinions, some are right and some are wrong.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jun 24, 2018 9:21:11 GMT -5
The Word is the final authority on any matter, and interpretations are just opinions, some are right and some are wrong.
And the opinion we all must seek is from God... And not our own.
"...knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." - 2 Peter 1:20-21
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;" - Proverbs 3:5
And if any people did not like that opinion, then they decide what to do... Believe or not, but the truth will always remain and all those who fight against it will not prevail.
"For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth." - 2 Corinthians 13:8
"But if you refuse and rebel, You shall be devoured by the sword; For the mouth of the Lord has spoken." - Isaiah 1:20
God bless you in Jesus' name!
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Post by tlsitd on Jun 24, 2018 10:06:35 GMT -5
Sister, Not one of these titles are in the bible for they are only made up terms by the learned to divide the Christian land further. We are either walking in the full truth or we are not, and Christ made none of us Lords over each other, but told us all to serve one another as he serves us. We have all started off on the milk, and received the commandments of Christ, but if we want to take it further and be fed with knowledge, true doctrine, we have to continue in the Word of God for that, for that is where all the meat is, in the holy scriptures. And with that meat, we can use it to edify one another, share, correct, rebuke, prove, and establish true doctrine so we know exactly what is coming and proclaim it before it happens. If the Word of God is given to us for reproof, and we ignore, or run away, or remain silent because it doesn't fit our doctrine, then we are not putting the truth first like we should, and if we reject truth, then we are rejecting Christ, the Word of God who is daily knocking on our door, asking us to let him in so that he can fill us up even more and grow. We were told to work out our own salvation, and and this does not mean it will be a smooth ride, for it's a journey and we will make mistakes along the way, fall, and get back up, believe on a certain thing, until we find a scripture that cancels that out. The whole picture has to harmonise and flow, and one part cannot contradict the other or else we become stuck, so it's back to the drawing board. The Word is always sharpening us, for the Lord does not want us mixing the spirit of truth with the spirit of error. Now anyone can preach the milk. Even deceiving pastors preach the milk wonderfully, convicting many to come to Christ, ....A wonderful preacher does mean that he is a true servant of the Lord, and the only way to tell if someone is truly in the Lord, is to hear his doctrine when going further than the gospels, ....on what's to come, whether it is the spirit of truth or the spirit of error speaking. Without us reading and finding out for ourselves we can never tell, or be none the wiser, and will only have ourselves to blame in the end. The Word is the final authority on any matter, and interpretations are just opinions, some are right and some are wrong. 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. Correct interpretations of God's word come from God. They are not opinions but objective truth. Without understanding and assurance from God about the meaning of Scripture, no one can know for certain whether what he or she believes what it says means is correct. The word does not speak for itself alone, for whatever there is that may be written can be interpreted in as many ways as there are people who read what is written---even those things that are plainly "spelled out". But God is the one who gives us the correct understanding and the assurance of what His word means. If He does not do this, then whatever we think or believe His word means is just a personal opinion. God is the final authority on His written word, not man. It doesn't matter what anyone teaches or believes His word means; what matters is whether what one teaches or believes His word means is actually what it means. And only God Himself (not the Bible by itself) can give a person that understanding and assurance. Without that, one has only his or her best guess and the hope that it's right. Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures... (Luke 24:45)
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 24, 2018 10:10:50 GMT -5
I will probably regret saying this because no one here will agree with me... but here goes.
I fundamentally disagree that eschatology determines a person's grasp of Jesus Christ. I do not believe that the "meat of the word" is based on end-time prophesy.
Every place in Scripture where the milk/meat paradigm appears, eschatology is absent.
In Hebrews, where we see the clearest example of moving on to meat, we get a treatise on the priesthood of Christ.
For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil. (Heb 5:13-14)
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits. (6:1-3)
There's not a drop of end-time prophesy in Hebrews. What there is, is a stirring defense of Jesus as the eternal high priest. A vision of heaven. A deeper understanding of what Jesus presently does for us at the Father's right hand.
Indeed, let us not revisit repentance over and over. But please, let us not judge and critique our fellow Christians, calling them babies at best or liars at worst, based on whether they happen to share our view of eschatology.
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Post by tlsitd on Jun 24, 2018 11:01:31 GMT -5
I will probably regret saying this because no one here will agree with me... but here goes. I fundamentally disagree that eschatology determines a person's grasp of Jesus Christ. I do not believe that the "meat of the word" is based on end-time prophesy. Every place in Scripture where the milk/meat paradigm appears, eschatology is absent. In Hebrews, where we see the clearest example of moving on to meat, we get a treatise on the priesthood of Christ. For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil. (Heb 5:13-14)
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits. (6:1-3)There's not a drop of end-time prophesy in Hebrews. What there is, is a stirring defense of Jesus as the eternal high priest. A vision of heaven. A deeper understanding of what Jesus presently does for us at the Father's right hand. Indeed, let us not revisit repentance over and over. But please, let us not judge and critique our fellow Christians, calling them babies at best or liars at worst, based on whether they happen to share our view of eschatology. No, you're very right. Spiritual meat is the more complex doctrine and deeper spiritual truths of Christianity that pertain to theology and Christian conduct (which is FAR more important to God than having a perfect understanding of Scriptural prophecy or eschatology), which "meat" requires a greater degree of renewing of the mind by God for a Christian to understand and accept. "And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of the flesh, as to babes in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?" (1 Corinthians 3:1-3) Spiritual maturity has to do with being more Christ-like in one's thinking and behavior, not with understanding prophecy or eschatology. God want us to have a firm grasp on theology because demons are always trying to twist the truth and lead us astray from it by attacking Christian theology by introducing strange teachings and misinterpretations of the word. So it's practical for us to understand our doctrine so that we won't be confused by the enemy and led astray from it. Having a correct understanding of Scriptural prophecy, as God may give it to us, is also practical---to help us to prepare for the things He is going to do and to know what is what and what He wants us to do, so that we will not be confused about it. And as far as understanding Messianic Scriptural prophecy goes, it is beneficial to have a firm grasp on that because of how it affects our theology, which is practical for the aforementioned reason. (Nobody's going to be able to say that someone else fulfilled the things that Christ fulfilled, or that Jesus Christ is not the fulfillment of those things which are written about Him in the Bible but rather Mohammed or someone else.) Hebrews is all about explaining how Judaism relates to Christianity, and the reason it is is for the very reason I mentioned, so that these Jewish believers would understand how the old covenant leads to the new and the purpose and nature of the one and of the other so that they wouldn't be confused or led astray doctrinally (as so many today are, who don't seem to know which covenant they are under and who God's chosen people are and why). The point of Hebrews was to teach these believers the doctrine of the faith and to remind them to be faithful to Jesus Christ by being obedient to His doctrine, because of what they had believed---lest the consequences of doing otherwise befall them---and all for the practical purpose of helping them to be effective and strong as Christians. The understanding of and application of correct Christian doctrine that pertains to how we are to live and to be as Christians is what grows Christians to maturity in Christ, not an understanding of eschatology or various mysteries of the Scriptures, which is trivial knowledge by comparison.
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Post by Sister on Jun 24, 2018 11:51:16 GMT -5
I will probably regret saying this because no one here will agree with me... but here goes. No, it's good that you speak up and give your view. We cannot get the "meat" of the word - the "solids", unless we are weaned off the milk. Everyone has to have that spirit of truth in them to grow Pg, ...we all start with the fundamentals,...the easy things to understand and then the harder things after that,.... and the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus. That same connection. One gives, another receives. Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
and another one to back this up; John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. Things to come, is what prophecy is all about. Understanding and declaring something before it happens, not after. If we get it right, we have the testimony of Jesus (The Word of God), with that holy spirit abiding in us as Jesus promised. If we get it wrong, we have the spirit of error. If we have the spirit of error, then we will trample the truth. This is not a light thing with God. The scriptures interpret themselves. There is always a backup scripture somewhere to prove what interpretation is right or wrong, or to make it more clear. So it's all about growing and maturing in the Lord. The Lord does not give us the spirit of prophesy...and by saying this I mean the "understanding" of prophesy,(of what is already written) if we stay on the milk forever, ...or if there is something wrong in our walk or holding us back. It just doesn't work like that. (Now I just lost all the rest of your quote.....)
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 24, 2018 12:13:27 GMT -5
We keep bringing all of these human conflicts into the church -- liberal or conservative, fundamental or philosophical, science or magic -- and using them to build little doctrinal ghettos. We exalt human thinking to the level of Scripture. This happens because, as you said, most of us have a shallow understanding of our theology. We get the basics of the gospel, and then we assume that secular humanist thinking can fill in the blanks. Or worse, we can't imagine a Jesus who would disagree with us.
So the church is flooded with people who sincerely believe that Jesus is Lord while assuming He must certainly approve of their oh-so-enlightened opinions. They are, in essence, the same person they were before they got saved, only now they have a divine stamp of approval on their viewpoint. Then the church does nothing to disciple them out of it, because it's hard work to contend for sound theology and cultivate true piety.
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Post by Sister on Jun 24, 2018 12:19:27 GMT -5
I am not sure what you are trying to relay here, but those scriptures you posted proves my point.
What does this mean Pg?
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
It means don't go around the same things over and over...for we should already know this (the basic principles), but move on, get some more knowledge. Ie. Don't keep calling everyone to repentance over and over, the flock is there already and know this,....has done that, but let's go further and get to the deeper things.
Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (don't keep repeating the same things, the flock needs to be fed some other things also...to go onto .....perfection.)
Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
If you need to repeat the same things, (the fundamentals)....then the flock you are preaching to is no good. It means the Word you initially preached has had no effect, putting Christ to open shame again and again.
Look if I share prophesy, it doesn't mean that I think I am better than anyone else. I only want to share what has already been spoken. I am not a prophet myself nor have I tried to make myself out to be one. I am not in the habit of casting out people to make anyone feel they don't belong, or deserve to hear anything, but the opposite, to bring us all in closer. Please don't take offense when I speak about milk or solids. We all started on the milk, but should not all just stay there without any growth. If someone is still on the milk for too long, I like to help bring them to the solids, to get a little taste of this instead.
1 Thessalonians 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 12:26:55 GMT -5
Two ways we grow and mature....one is by increasing in Christlikeness, and this is greatly aided by the other way, by our knowing Him better.....through the scriptures and in tandem with our experience of Him in our lives. So we do need to grow in understanding of the scriptures, and I must disagree with that being thought trivial, because we really can't grow without it. Now, studying the scriptures can have pitfalls of its own, which may be warned against, but on the other hand nobody promised us this would be a risk-free, cut & dried pilgrimage. Ultimately what is in our hearts concerning each one of us gets brought to the surface for the Lord to deal with it in the light, for that is the path He leads us on, constantly testing His workmanship.
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Post by tlsitd on Jun 24, 2018 12:30:03 GMT -5
We keep bringing all of these human conflicts into the church -- liberal or conservative, fundamental or philosophical, science or magic -- and using them to build little doctrinal ghettos. We exalt human thinking to the level of Scripture. This happens because, as you said, most of us have a shallow understanding of our theology. We get the basics of the gospel, and then we assume that secular humanist thinking can fill in the blanks. Or worse, we can't imagine a Jesus who would disagree with us. So the church is flooded with people who sincerely believe that Jesus is Lord while assuming He must certainly approve of their oh-so-enlightened opinions. They are, in essence, the same person they were before they got saved, only now they have a divine stamp of approval on their viewpoint. Then the church does nothing to disciple them out of it, because it's hard work to contend for sound theology and cultivate true piety. If people would just obey what we were given in the New Testament and stop trying to "adjust" it or modernize or improve it, either by adding to it or taking away from it, there would be a lot less confusion and conflict in Christianity. That doctrine is not only theology but also instruction in attitude and behavior. The people of God do not know their God very well, which is why they think that He thinks the way they think and that their personal goals and ambitions are Jesus' interests and His will for them. God renews the minds of and gives wisdom and good understanding to those who obey His word faithfully, not to those who change it to suit themselves and apply what is convenient for them. Christians have become about making a God after their own likeness, changing Him and His teachings to serve their own purposes, rather than committing themselves to being remade in His image by His renewing of their minds in order to do His will.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 12:32:01 GMT -5
I will probably regret saying this because no one here will agree with me... but here goes. I fundamentally disagree that eschatology determines a person's grasp of Jesus Christ. I do not believe that the "meat of the word" is based on end-time prophesy. Every place in Scripture where the milk/meat paradigm appears, eschatology is absent. In Hebrews, where we see the clearest example of moving on to meat, we get a treatise on the priesthood of Christ. For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil. (Heb 5:13-14)
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits. (6:1-3)There's not a drop of end-time prophesy in Hebrews. What there is, is a stirring defense of Jesus as the eternal high priest. A vision of heaven. A deeper understanding of what Jesus presently does for us at the Father's right hand. Indeed, let us not revisit repentance over and over. But please, let us not judge and critique our fellow Christians, calling them babies at best or liars at worst, based on whether they happen to share our view of eschatology. I agree with most of the points you are making in general PG4, but I don't see how it applies here. No-one is talking about eschatology or calling anyone names...I thought Sister's post was excellent food, well said, and worth digesting...not to add our own assumptions to it, but just to be taken as it is and profit from it. Maturing I believe is about Christlikeness in a nutshell....the fruits of the spirit....showing forth His image and becoming spiritual people, instead of remaining as carnal people full of carnal knowledge which kills.....as well as part of maturing is growing in understanding about what the scriptures are showing us about the ways and plans of God...because I mentioned, we are learning to know Him better, and NEED to. We are all still works of progress on our way to Christlikeness....without exception, all of us...we all have blind spots, and all are admonished to prefer others over ourselves and remember humility. That doesn't mean not to share things or exhort, or disagree, but that we do so from the right perspective of serving and washing one another's feet…. for the kingdom’s sake. Regarding the OP, on the one hand I don't disagree with the point, but believe it's worth looking at it a bit deeper and remember what Jesus said, that we shall know them by their fruits....so there is no need to call ourselves by a particular name, because ultimately it's for the Lord to judge our fruits not we ourselves. Not even Paul considered that he had apprehended, so to me that is a mindset we do well to embrace as long as we are on earth working out our own salvation. The early church did not call themselves Christians actually, but that was a name given to them by the unbelievers.
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Post by tlsitd on Jun 24, 2018 12:32:21 GMT -5
Two ways we grow and mature....one is by increasing in Christlikeness, and this is greatly aided by the other way, by our knowing Him better.....through the scriptures and in tandem with our experience of Him in our lives. So we do need to grow in understanding of the scriptures, and I must disagree with that being thought trivial, because we really can't grow without it. Now, studying the scriptures can have pitfalls of its own, which may be warned against, but on the other hand nobody promised us this would be a risk-free, cut & dried pilgrimage. Ultimately what is in our hearts concerning each one of us gets brought to the surface for the Lord to deal with it in the light, for that is the path He leads us on, constantly testing His workmanship. I did not say that studying the Scriptures was trivial. Please re-read my comment.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 24, 2018 12:37:55 GMT -5
So it's all about growing and maturing in the Lord. The Lord does not give us the spirit of prophesy...and by saying this I mean the "understanding" of prophesy,(of what is already written) if we stay on the milk forever, ...or if there is something wrong in our walk or holding us back. It just doesn't work like that. I don't know what part of my quote implied that we should stay in milk forever. This has nothing to do with staying in milk. I never said Christians have to stay in milk. Of course we move on to meat. I simply disagree that eschatology is the meat. There isn't one Scripture that tells us 1) eschatology is meat, and 2) we can judge a person's walk by their views on the rapture. That type of thinking is not biblical. Please don't think I am against eschatology. I'm not. I just hate to see it used as a measuring stick on people who choose to pursue other avenues of ministry. Please don't think I'm downplaying prophesy. I'm not. But I believe that one true prophetic word spoken over a fellow believer is better than a thousand words of end-time speculation. One true prophesy about a nation's governance does more good than a hundred rapturous predictions which that generation may or may not witness.
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