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Post by Sister on Jun 24, 2018 21:39:05 GMT -5
Sister . no one was talking about anyone on this site . Don't let the mind wander into that realm. its how the dark one tries to separate . Frienduff I have good discernment and can read between the lines. I have gotten to know my enemy well over the years, especially through these forums, and know when he feels threatened and how he reacts. He does exactly what he did to the prophets, Christ and the apostles. He discredits those who bring truth and tries to form a posse against them subtly. He hates love and fairness, and especially truth. He is manipulative, cunning, and loves to keep the captives captive, whilst accusing others. I pray each prayer with all my heart to keep me from bitterness with the brethren who do such things and to keep love in my heart for them. It's not them that I dislike, but the sin I hate, ...the spirit of hypocrisy and pride....and jealousy is in there too. They love to destroy our good conversation in Christ, and make a mountain out of a molehill. They take saints for sinners. Truth for lies. The blessed for the cursed. It's all upside down. I think I have nearly enough of these forums.
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Post by Sister on Jun 24, 2018 22:08:54 GMT -5
Did you soak in that scripture I gave you? that the "testimony of Jesus" is the spirit of prophecy? One gives, one receives. The holy spirit is that telephone line so to speak, so you can hear and understand that spirit speaking which is the spirit of truth which shall show us "all things to come", not just some things , but "all".....the whole lot that has been given in the scriptures from the Word of God.There is a bit of conflation going on here that I want to clear up. Jesus has shown us what will happen in the end. No doubt about it. I believe every word of it. That prophesy has been given to us. But interpretation of an existing prophesy is not what makes someone a prophet. Going through Daniel/Revelation to figure out what will happen isn’t prophesying. It’s exegesis. People with a good grasp on Revelation are good at studying Scripture. That’s it. Exegesis. Is that word in the bible? If we are giving all these "worldly" terms when discussing the simplicity of the truth, then it shows where our foundation is from. We need to come out of Babylon pg, and come into Zion where everyone speaks plainly and clear, the language of God so there are no misunderstandings, nor anyone trying to make themselves appear more "learned" than others. Speak God's language, not the worlds, for the world is corrupted and think they are wise.
The prophets spoke by the holy spirit, in the spirit, to reach those who are in that same spirit. The Word of God was put into them prophets to reach us. One gives, one receives. If we are in that spirit, then we are in the spirit of prophecy...receiving the message, in that same frequency. Is that so hard to understand?
There are no new prophets today......they were all sent, they came and they went. We have their word (God's Word) in print today after all these years, and that doesn't change, .....this is what we go by. The next two prophets to come are the two witnesses. The spirit does speak to us personally, and brings to remembrance all the things we have learned, but to reject God's real prophets, and accept self proclaimed ones is sin, because if you accept them that they have been sent from God, you have to accept their whole doctrine.
So yes, having the interpretation of what a prophet wrote does not make one a prophet, but he will share that "spirit of prophecy" where one gives, and one receives. Revelation and Daniel are the two most misunderstood books, and what we interpret out of them determines whether our doctrine is of God or not. Ie. There is only one truth, but many interpretations....Should be just one interpretation.
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Post by Sister on Jun 24, 2018 22:15:28 GMT -5
So that's what a real prophet is to you?....kind of like a fortune teller? How do you know if these "true prophets" are lying to you? All we need to know is already in the scriptures.
I agree, but it doesn't mean that they have the spirit of God in them either.
I am having trouble following you here.
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Post by Sister on Jun 24, 2018 23:11:04 GMT -5
What we should do , is examine and exhort on all of JESUS sayings . That is what I mostly did . But I warn us all, FOLKS FIGHT LIKE HECK when I say one or two of JESUS sayings and they done twisted them . MAN they fight and fight and fight . Never once have I seen one repent even when I corrected BY JESUS sayings . they attack it . I pray hard and feverent that none of us here will do that . I mean IF WE LOVE JESUS , then we LOVE HIS SAYINGS . this is where the rift meets the raft though . For I have seen many claim to LOVE JESUS and even say that , AND YET they have willfully broken his sayings , JUSTIFY IT and refuse to repent . I mean some of the biggest battles I have come up against aint end time pre mid or post trib. ITS when I see the error and then The SPIRIT has me to ask them about some of JESUS sayings and BAM , their it is , they justify remarriage , or they justify heaping up money , or whatever it is . But I pray this does not happen here . Now I am going to go ahead and let all of us in on something . And its something I have been called a loser for or something I have been told GOD gives me grace if I were to DO IT . YALL READY . By grace I have been a single man for years and years now . DO you all want to know WHY . CAUSE if I remarry another ITS ADULTERY . NO IFS , NO ANDS and NO BUTS about it . YET , HAPPY IS THE ONE WHO KEEPS HIS SAYINGS . I mean HOW DEPRESSED DO I SEEM . I GOT THE JOY OF THE LORD . WE don't put away wives and wives don't put away husbands and remarry and THEN JUSTIFY IT . Cuase the GRACE OF GOD don't teach us TO TRANSGRESS the sayings OF JESUS . NOW HOW many think I am wrong about this . Yet , I get accused of being wrong all the time . by those who I don't see no joy in . AINT that something . Frienduff This is how I understand it. If you want to live a single life and just concentrate on the Lord, and not the pleasing of a wife then that is up to you, and is honoured by God for you can give him more of your time. If your wife cheated on you, or left you for another reason, then you are not bound by her anymore, nor are you barred from marrying again, ...you can marry if you wish, but only someone in the Lord. If you cheated on your wife, whilst you were in your sins, and didn't know the Lord, or you just divorced her because she got on your nerves, ....whilst you were in your sin, then I think that if you came to the Lord after that, it would be ok to remarry, only in the Lord, because the slate is wiped clean, but if your conscience tells you it is not ok to marry, then don't do it, for if you go against your conscience then that is sin. If you cheated on your wife or just put her away, whilst you were in the Lord, then yes, stay single. You are not a loser.
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Post by frienduff on Jun 25, 2018 8:08:27 GMT -5
Sister . I just have no desire to go back and try and find all that . It was not that it was all false , it was just simply not inspired the same way the bible was . From day one , God turned me completely around and put whole new desire within me . No matter what I read in the bible it was all edifying to my soul . From every promise to every warning . From the bad examples of what not to do , to the good examples of what to do . It was just edification for the soul . I could not find that in the sermons at churches , not on tbn, BUT IN THE BIBLE I always have found peace , edification . And when others speak or type sound truth I get peace and edification . THIS is all the work of Grace and that Grace by GOD, given us in Christ who gives us the desires and ability to do those things pleasing in HIS SIGHT . I just never had peace or edification from those books. It is like I first said , they are at best , books written by men who knew some truth , but they contain mens way of seeing things . I don't know how to make that make sense to you . You are loved sister . I don't know how else to put it into words .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 25, 2018 8:58:10 GMT -5
Can we slow down and clear the air on a few things here? This thread is starting to go in a negative direction, and it shouldn't be that way. I didn't come here to sound more learned than anyone else. I'm really just trying to have a dialog. I speak my mind on a doctrinal point, and the next thing I know, I'm a pseudo-intellectual stuck in Babylon. This is why I began by saying I would probably regret to speak up here.
I don't believe in cessation of the gifts, including prophesy. I believe we have prophets among us now. And no, I have absolutely no desire to rehash Scriptures on this topic, because such an exercise would change no one's mind. How do I know a true prophet from a false prophet? The Bible tells me, but that information has been there for centuries, so people who disagree will disagree still.
You view the spirit of prophesy -- at this point in time -- as a divine ability to receive what the prophets really said. Fair enough. I disagree with that view, but I respect it as your view, and I see how it shapes your thoughts on eschatology. We can spend the next few days having a Bible-verse argument about it, or we can accept right now that such an event would only result in hurt feelings. You're a very intelligent woman who has spent much time in Scripture. I respect that. Far be it from me to try to change such a fundamental paradigm in your doctrine.
(I'm writing the same words I speak in daily conversation, not to sound smart, but because I choose the words that best express what I'm saying. I don't think it's a sin to use words not mentioned in Scripture. If we can eat chocolate cake not mentioned in the Bible, and we can use modern luxuries not invented in the Bible, we can use perfectly harmless modern words. Again, this is my personal belief, and you're free to disagree. But it isn't something I wish to debate.)
So the bottom line on this thread... you believe that any mature Christian should receive the spirit of prophesy, should thus be able to divinely apprehend what Daniel/Revelation tell us, and should be able to teach on end-time events a particular way... and since the Bible makes a strong connection between the gospel and prophesy, one must lead to the other... and preachers who fail in this are probably failing in their spiritual walk.
Have I portrayed your position correctly? I'm not trying to corner you. I have no agenda to push this any further. I just want to be sure that I understand your thoughts.
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Post by John on Jun 25, 2018 10:17:25 GMT -5
I agree with PG4Him that the ministry of prophet continues today, as do the other ministry gifts: Apostle, Pastor, Evangelist and Teacher. I see them working in a couple of different ways. God may use them to give a direct message to the church using scripture. God may reveal to them that there is a problem or need in a congregation, and give them a message to preach. Another way God uses a prophet is to go straight to an individual and give them a divine word, the same way God used prophets in Old Testament times, and even in the New Testament in Acts, where prophets warned Paul about what was awaiting him in Jerusalem.
I once heard a Bible teacher speak on Revelation, and he was what I considered an expert on Bible prophecy. He knew it through personal study, because that was his primary interest, but he would tell you that he is not a prophet. He simply spends all his time studying the subject of Bible prophecy, to the point where he can quote by memory long passages. Being an expert in prophecy alone doesn't make someone a prophet, but like you have doctors who specialize in certain parts of the body, as opposed to a general practitioner, you have people that specialize in certain portions of scripture.
I have no idea how we got off on the Apocrypha in this thread. If we are speaking only of the 14 books that were removed from the KJV Bible that used to be in the middle, I don't remember reading much in there that would contradict scripture, but there was a verse in Ecclesiasticus that seemed to contradict Jesus' teachings on divorce, as well as Malachi's teachings that God hates putting away. I do not believe Rest of Esther is inspired by God. You can see it goes in a different direction from the rest of the book and it feels like you are reading an entirely different author. Tobit seems more like a fable than reality to me, but I admit that is just an opinion I get when I read it. There is no real crazy stuff in those 14 books like you find in some extra-Biblical material that is out there, but I am not willing to come out and endorse those books as equal to canon. Again, I don't know why this came up in this thread, but since I have read those books, I know what is there, as opposed to what people claim is there.
As far as the actual topic of the OP goes, the only reason I have for sometimes calling myself things like evangelical or Pentecostal is not to place myself in a box or separate myself from the body of Christ as a whole, but just because people understand the meaning of such terms, and it is a quick way to give some idea what you believe when you are pressed for time. Certainly, just saying you are Christian would ideally be enough.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 25, 2018 10:29:14 GMT -5
Let me add one more thought here. Sister, you expressed frustration that you can't seem to get through to people on internet discussion forums such as this. This type of place is mostly an avenue for encouragement, counsel, light discussion, stuff like that. It's an online support group. That's what they designed it for. They didn't design it to facilitate earth-shaking theological paradigm shifts. This type of environment simply doesn't lend itself to that. Sure, you might encounter a few people here or there who are looking for that, but it isn't the norm. I believe that deep theological exhortation should follow a Biblical model of discipleship. It happens alongside fellowship, heart-to-heart connection, knowing someone truly loves you and is there for you, and really being able to exert anointed counsel when we teach others. We cannot isolate doctrine into a box where it's divorced from relationship. The deeper/more fundamental a precept is, the more intimately it will be tied to discipleship. Yes, I know that we are all dealing with real people behind the names here -- but I'm also aware that we're anonymous people with limited devotion to each other's personal plights. When I read Corinthians, I see Paul's heart for that church dripping from every page. He loved them beyond some abstract notion. He poured his heart and soul into discipling them. They were a family. He cried real tears because it broke his heart to rebuke them. That's the environment where deep-seeded theological training happens. I'm not saying relationship replaces Spirit. And I'm definitely not saying we should show blind loyalty toward those who are kind to us. All I'm saying is, we have abundant evidence at this point that it doesn't work to roam the internet as a vigilante. All that happens is, people get into Bible-verse shootouts with no anointing. We should respect the limitations of a what an online discussion board can do for us. It is what it is, and that's great, it isn't what it isn't.
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Post by John on Jun 25, 2018 11:56:46 GMT -5
Of your typical churches, how many have people are devoted to one another, like the Apostle Paul, or maybe like Timothy? Most go out and hire a professional Pastor, and he does a job for a paycheck. I think sister Candance is right about why most join Christian Forums, but some are desiring in depth studies. Most of those people are set in their beliefs and close minded, seeking their own followers. It is hard to get people to make drastic doctrinal changes, whether that be in a physical church, or an internet church/forum.
For me, my main concern is practical Christian living. My calling is primarily a Pastor, so knowing the Bible way to go through life where we make it to heaven is more urgent than an in depth study of genealogies, the shape of the earth, etc. I leave that to those who feel called to do that.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jun 25, 2018 12:18:06 GMT -5
For me, my main concern is practical Christian living. My calling is primarily a Pastor, so knowing the Bible way to go through life where we make it to heaven is more urgent than an in depth study of genealogies, the shape of the earth, etc. I leave that to those who feel called to do that.
Yes, not only through that but talking about experiences in life and sharing them with other people so that they have more reasons to be convinced that what you are saying is true.
And I believe it is more precise and effective, from those who not only know but have had effective experiences.
"Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine." - 1 Timothy 5:17
"And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God." - 1 Corinthians 2:4-5
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Post by tlsitd on Jun 25, 2018 12:24:53 GMT -5
Some helpful things to keep in mind in our interactions with each other:
1. Is it the Lord's will? (Is this something that Jesus wants me to share or say? (And if you think that it is, why?))
2. Is it spiritually beneficial to the other person (to help them to be a stronger and more fruitful Christian)?
3. Is it being done in genuine love or with some other attitude and for some other reason?
4. Will it do more harm than is worth what good might result from saying it or sharing it (pros vs cons)?
5. Will it make for a quarrel?
Godly wisdom must guide us in what to say and how to say it, for the purpose of building others up according to God's will---whether by correction, or by counsel, or by instruction. (Sometimes even sharing truth about something may be counterproductive if the other person is not at a place where he or she can receive whatever we might share with them.) We really must follow the Holy Spirit's leading in what we say and share and how, so that we work together, with Him and with each other, to achieve God's ends---and not be self-focused in our thinking. Forging ahead in our own way, and for human reasons rather than His, leads to strife and vain discussion, rather than producing God's desired results.
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Post by Sister on Jun 25, 2018 12:27:09 GMT -5
Can we slow down and clear the air on a few things here? This thread is starting to go in a negative direction, and it shouldn't be that way. I didn't come here to sound more learned than anyone else. I'm really just trying to have a dialog. I speak my mind on a doctrinal point, and the next thing I know, I'm a pseudo-intellectual stuck in Babylon. This is why I began by saying I would probably regret to speak up here. Pg, I am sorry if I offended. Don't take this personal. We are handling the Word of Life here, all sharing and bringing out our treasures (what we have learned). This thread started by sister lights stating she was not, a Protestant, Conservative Christian, a Fundamentalist, Evangelical Christian, Trinitarian, but just a Christian and I saw it as her saying don’t put don’t put me into a box, by the world’s definition, I am a Christian full stop. I follow Christ, so don’t label me according to your definitions, and I agree with her. I replied to her; I don’t like these "terms" or "definitions" also, or any other of these scholarly "terms" that analyse people, or their scriptural views, putting them into their sections, because the bible does not use any of these terms, but speaks simple, instructing on doing things that are pleasing to the Lord, , and warning against those things that are not pleasing to him. When we bring university, learned talk into it, we are mixing a different spirit with the Word of God, taking away that simplicity…leaving those who do not know these terms scratching their heads or having to use a dictionary every few words to understand what on earth they are talking about when all we have to do is to pick up the bible and read. Does this make sense? I am saying keep it simple. Babylon is the world. Universities are of the world, ..the learned are of the world. The world hear it's own. How many times did Christ warn against the learned, how they think they are so wise? Why mix their terms with God’s terms, or mingle their standards with God’s standards?...the two don’t mix. Lets talk God’s language and the words he uses so we can all understand. If you want to use those terms that's fine, but it's only going to reach a certain type, and not everybody, not even me. We are not all from the church system, but some of us were very bad sinners, full of abominations, ungrateful, unholy, the lowest of the low, surrounded by all our problems to deal with as a consequence, and fully surrounded by evil on the outside and within, in this state so dark and desperate, were called, and came to Christ, through his Word, not knowing much, but willing to find out, not hearing anyone tell us that we were saved, no pat on the back, no instant wings, but found out simply through reading how condemned we were, how dark our souls were,...and that shame is what gave us the fear of God which started our journey of repentance...to escape our filth. So what I am stating is because it is so important that we all come out of Babylon, that system of the world which is not of God, I like to remind and emphasize that many of us are still in Babylon and don’t even realize it, that for many of us, our foundation is in the universities viewing scriptural things from a worldly perspective through their eyes and it shows that when we use their terms, we are of their teachings, their system. I am emphasizing to us all to come out of their ways, because their ways have led to the falling away, and the trampling of the truth, and are leading the flocks to the slaughter. The prophets can testify of this that God is not happy with the shepherds,…the ones at the top, and he is going to destroy their pastures by scattering the sheep. Be separate of them because their foundations are not in God. Pg, many of us still have a foot in Babylon and don't realise it. If we cannot recognize what and who Babylon is, and not come out now fully, then we will receive her plagues, as warned. It needs to be said and we need to be reminded. We cannot have our feet in both kingdoms, we must step away from the shadow of the world, and come under the shadow of the Lord. This is urgent, and I am not your judge, I know you have a heart for the Lord as everyone here has and you don't use those terms that often, but I just wanted to point this out and probably concerns more of the others on the other forum. Babylon is not just the church system of the world, but it's a part of it. I want to answer your other question but time doesn't allow it right now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 12:40:26 GMT -5
<< If we cannot recognize what and who Babylon is, and not come out now fully, then we will receive her plagues, as warned. It needs to be said and we need to be reminded. >>
Amen Sister....I can only say amen. If that is what your studies are showing you, they are not leading you astray, and I say amen again. And please when you have the time would you mind expanding a little more on what it means to come out of Babylon, how one does that.
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Post by tlsitd on Jun 25, 2018 12:55:47 GMT -5
If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. (Galatians 5:25,26)
And I will show you a still more excellent way.
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
...Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.
...As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.
...So now, faith, hope and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
(1 Corinthians 12:31,13:1,2,4-6,8-11,13)
We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up. For Christ did not please Himself, but as it is written, "The reproaches of those who reproached You fell on me." ...May the God of endurance and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus, that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 15:1-3,5,6)
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 25, 2018 13:06:14 GMT -5
Thank you for the kind reply. We must always remember (I say this to myself as well) that you and I are not enemies. We’re on the same team.
For the record, I never went to any university. I have no college degree. I didn’t grow up in church as a child. My mention of exegesis wasn’t to display education; it was simply the most direct word to say what I meant. I don’t believe in using ten-dollar words to show off, but neither do I believe in restricting myself to a small vocabulary just to show myself simple. I find it hurtful that you would seize on a modern word, label it as some sort of poison, and continually imply that I’m in Babylon because I use that word.
Shall I speak of my own painful past before I met Jesus? Shall I speak of the manifest power of Christ, not through human preaching, that compelled me to repent when Jesus was the last thing I thought I wanted? How about we stop assuming that those who disagree with us (or those who use words we don’t like) didn’t experience salvation as deeply as we did?
I tend to avoid doctrinal teachers who tell me it’s their way or the highway. Such teachers are a dime a dozen, and it can be a full-time job to indulge them all. All I can do is believe what God reveals to me, by whatever method He uses, and let this be enough. All I can do for others is to offer my thoughts and let them believe what they will.
If I can expect more of the same on this thread (being called an academic baby Christian with one foot in Babylon), it’s best for me to disengage.
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