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Post by Sister on Jun 27, 2018 9:35:49 GMT -5
Amen Sister.......thank you for more pieces of the puzzle as concerns the return of the Lord....I do find it helpful indeed! And thanks for showing how those passages in Joel are showing His intent to give His Spirit and gifts/callings to all who belong to Him (1 Cor.12), a new order of things under the new covenant to come, where it is no longer given only to a select few the way He gave it to the old testament prophets and saints...who I consider were a type and shadow of all the elect to come, in that way. All who belong to the Body of Christ have gifts and callings under this new covenant....works ordained for us to walk in, once the Lord has prepared our vessel and sends us (which preparation is also wonderfully pictured in old testament scriptures). I glorify the Lord that you can appreciate all this and can connect these things for yourself. I guess it boils down to this, ...If we want to edify the others why are prophets still needed? If we have the Word abiding in us, we should be able to pass on what we have learned to get the message across. We bring out the scriptures to show them what the Word said and where. I think this is just as powerful.
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Post by John on Jun 27, 2018 10:14:04 GMT -5
First of all, the Bible never says prophecies will cease when the Bible is completed. All the arguments that prophets no longer exist are based on a man-made assumption they are not needed. Secondly, the reason we need prophets today is for specific words to individual churches and people, similar to a prophetic word we recently received here at Narrow Way. It has nothing to do with adding to the scriptures.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jun 27, 2018 10:36:31 GMT -5
We bring out the scriptures to show them what the Word said and where. I think this is just as powerful. Yes, it is powerful.
But people can combine the Word with messages from God (if they receive them), and this can connect to the person in unexpected, personal, and strong ways.
As I have said, the gift of prophecy can be manifested in many ways...
Far more than just being able to understand prophetic events.
That is one of the reasons such gift is heavily attacked and discredited.
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Post by Sister on Jun 27, 2018 11:19:42 GMT -5
Yes 2f but all the so called prophets are in the churches, and the churches are falling away. Test them.
There was one I forgot about. These will prophesy here, when the Mark of the Beast is out;
Luke 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
Luke 21:10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
Luke 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Luke 21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
Luke 21:14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
This is going to be so powerful. Thank you Jesus.
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Post by John on Jun 27, 2018 11:32:03 GMT -5
Those are not Bible based arguments against prophets. They are based on human reasoning. Arguing that churches are falling away so prophets no longer exist is no more valid than saying we don't have Pastors and teachers today.
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Post by frienduff on Jun 27, 2018 12:03:11 GMT -5
Butero made a good point . Just because MOST churches are falling away. DOES THAT MEAN they are no more christains . NOPE so just because mega false prophets have arisen and deceive many , DOES NOT MEAN the gifts of the SPIRIT have ceased . THE gifts and offices OF THE CHURCH , OF THE BODY , are FOR the BODY to build it up . and we also had prophets in the early church that warned of coming dearth and events . WE STILL HAVE THEM TODAY . just cause we got a massive overflow of false , does not mean truth nor those of it , or the SPIRIT or those OF IT DO not have the gifts OF IT . I flat out refuse to heed men . the ones who teach this ceased or that ceased, WHATEVER PATTERN and FOUNDATION , GIFTS JESUS SUPPLIED THE EARLY CHURCH is still available today . FOR HEEED THIS < HEED THIS NEXT THING I SAY . For though men and times have changed . THE SPRIIT , JESUS < GOD never does . WHAT was available to the early CHURCH by that ONE SPIRIT , IS STILL AVAILABLE TODAY. ITS STILL NEEDED TO BUILD UP an EDIFY THE BODY of believes . and just cause men changed , THE SPIRIT NEVER DOES .
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jun 27, 2018 12:06:02 GMT -5
Yes 2f but all the so called prophets are in the churches, and the churches are falling away. Test them. There was one I forgot about. These will prophesy here, when the Mark of the Beast is out;
You are talking about false prophets.
There are churches who are preaching truth according to the gospel, they are not the majority, but they still exist.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 14:34:59 GMT -5
Amen Sister.......thank you for more pieces of the puzzle as concerns the return of the Lord....I do find it helpful indeed! And thanks for showing how those passages in Joel are showing His intent to give His Spirit and gifts/callings to all who belong to Him (1 Cor.12), a new order of things under the new covenant to come, where it is no longer given only to a select few the way He gave it to the old testament prophets and saints...who I consider were a type and shadow of all the elect to come, in that way. All who belong to the Body of Christ have gifts and callings under this new covenant....works ordained for us to walk in, once the Lord has prepared our vessel and sends us (which preparation is also wonderfully pictured in old testament scriptures). I glorify the Lord that you can appreciate all this and can connect these things for yourself. I guess it boils down to this, ...If we want to edify the others why are prophets still needed? If we have the Word abiding in us, we should be able to pass on what we have learned to get the message across. We bring out the scriptures to show them what the Word said and where. I think this is just as powerful. Yes Sister.....if by prophets you are talking about prophets in the old testament sense, then I agree. There are prophets in the Body of Christ, as the epistles do talk about them....but not in the old testament way. One administration/operation of prophet is one of the five greater gifts....apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, evangelist, with all of the Body working together. These ones have more to do with doctrine, while other operations of prophetic gifts also bring spontaneous words from the Spirit to encourage, exhort and comfort the church, either to individuals or corporately. Where I understand the church has gone wrong in regard to this is to elevate prophets, pastors and others above the Body of Christ...that is an antichrist practice...and where men are glorified it always leads astray and we are seeing the full grown fruit of it in the last days (part of transgression coming to the full)...leading to we-know-who...THE Antichrist.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 14:37:39 GMT -5
<< Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
This is going to be so powerful. Thank you Jesus. >>
Amen....just see how powerful...when the two witnesses RECEIVE THAT POWER.
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Post by John on Jun 29, 2018 4:03:40 GMT -5
Yes 2f but all the so called prophets are in the churches, and the churches are falling away. Test them. There was one I forgot about. These will prophesy here, when the Mark of the Beast is out;
You are talking about false prophets.
There are churches who are preaching truth according to the gospel, they are not the majority, but they still exist. The church as a whole is falling away, but God has a remnant. Throughout history, the true prophets have been out numbered by the false prophets, but God has always had those who faithfully spoke only the things he told them to speak. There is not a single scripture that states that upon the completion of the Holy Bible, the office of prophet will cease. Arguments like they are no longer needed are not Bible based. I challenge anyone that claims the office of prophet ended upon the completion of the canon of scripture to show that in the Bible. Our ability or lack of ability to name a reliable prophet today doesn't prove anything.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 10:16:03 GMT -5
I think some understanding has come regarding what Sister is alluding to, praise the Lord. Maybe we could test the following and see if it is reconciles what she is saying, how it isn’t really a contradiction to scripture.
We know that death reigns for now….our physical bodies testify to that, how they wax old , die and decay. Likewise we saw Israel of old and the old covenant wax old and fade away. And then the new way of the new covenant came….but now we see the church waxing old and decaying, fading away..destroyed. But at the return of Christ we will be in a new paradigm once again with New Jerusalem/heavenly Zion. No more will they need to teach and prophesy or preach to one another to know the Lord, but they will ALL know the Lord (by direct revelation, perhaps when every eye will see Him) and that is why there will be no need for prophets in the New Jerusalem and why those who are prophets in that day will be ashamed, because it will be inferior and old/decaying, so to speak, compared to what they will then have with N.J./ heavenly Zion. (As a dual prophecy , as concerns the past , it was also showing the new covenant to come through the cross, that there will no longer be old covenant type prophets under the new covenant.)
Zec 13:1-4
“On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.
“On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more,” declares the LORD Almighty. “I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land.
And if anyone still prophesies, their father and mother, to whom they were born, will say to them, ‘You must die, because you have told lies in the LORD’s name.’ Then their own parents will stab the one who prophesies.
“On that day every prophet will be ashamed of their prophetic vision. They will not put on a prophet’s garment of hair in order to deceive.
Each will say, ‘I am not a prophet. I am a farmer; the land has been my livelihood since my youth.’
If someone asks, ‘What are these wounds on your body?’ they will answer, ‘The wounds I was given at the house of my friends.’
Zec 12:8-10
On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the LORD going before them. (the two witnesses receiving power…balance owing of the deposit of the Spirit being poured out on the church)
On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will LOOK ON ME (every eye will see Him), the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
Jer 31:33-34 (another dual prophecy for both the new covenant and at the return of the Lord)
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the LORD. (where Paul wrote that when perfection comes we will know even as we are fully known)
“For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
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Post by John on Jun 29, 2018 11:23:04 GMT -5
The reason I disagree with Sister in this matter is because Old Testament style prophets operated under the New Covenant in Acts, and there is no scripture stating that will magically cease when the canon is complete. Making such a claim is adding to scripture.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 12:18:51 GMT -5
Butero....I'm not sure if I understand what Sister is saying exactly, but I myself believe that there are new covenant prophets, clearly spoken of in the new testament as a gift of the Spirit...but which will no longer be necessary in New Jerusalem. I think this might help to reconcile what she is seeing in scripture that appears to contradict new testament prophets, but doesn't really contradict if we rightly divide these scriptures. Those first verses of Zechariah 13 about there being no more prophets must mean something.
One major difference between OT and NT prophets, is that under the OT they acted alone for the most part, whereas under the new covenant they are members of a Body. Another difference is that under the old covenant there wasn't any grace if any made a mistake...they were immediately supposed to be cast off (or stoned) as a false prophet, whereas under the new covenant prophets grow into their gifts, as with all spiritual gifts, sharpening their spiritual senses through exercising them......and can learn from their mistakes, repent, grow and mature, if their hearts are right. I'm sure we all agree in a general sense that there was a major difference and change going from the old covenant to the new.
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Post by Sister on Jun 29, 2018 13:01:29 GMT -5
I am not denying that there were prophets sent in the NT, for some came as recorded, and their names were mentioned. All was needed to build up and establish the church to get it going. I don't see the church now as the same church back then. It has changed a lot. Maybe I am wrong, but if there are prophets today, who are they? What are they speaking? What's their doctrine? Are they just copying the Lord's words?
Ellen White was supposed to be a great prophet. She is founder of the SDA church. What's her doctrine? Charles T Russell founder of the JW's - what's his doctrine?
Mohamad - he was a prophet - what's his doctrine?
Nostradamus - another prophet - what's his doctrine?
All seem to be promoting a doctrine.
Who are the prophets today? What's their doctrine?
If any prophet comes into a church and holds your doctrine of course you are going to believe them. If it's the only doctrine we know, how do we know it's the true one? We were not warned that many prophets will come in the last days, but that many false prophets will come. There is a difference.
Prophecy concerns future events...things to come before they happen. Is there anything new we should know that the Lord's prophet's have not told us? Why do we reject God's prophets already sent, and accept ones we don't know?
Enoch was a prophet, he prophesied many things, but he is still to this day rejected. Baruch (Barak) was a prophet, another one rejected, and Esdras, a prophet...aka (Ezra), rejected also, all these who God mentioned in scripture rejected, and we have got their words today, but we accept unknowns?
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Post by frienduff on Jun 29, 2018 13:08:27 GMT -5
First of all, the Bible never says prophecies will cease when the Bible is completed. All the arguments that prophets no longer exist are based on a man-made assumption they are not needed. Secondly, the reason we need prophets today is for specific words to individual churches and people, similar to a prophetic word we recently received here at Narrow Way. It has nothing to do with adding to the scriptures.
Das ist sehr gut bruder butero. The ONLY place it makes mentions of prophesying , tongues etc ceasing . IS AFTER JESUS HAS RETURNED . TILL THEN its all the WORK OF THE HOLY GHOST to build up the church . TILL JESUS COMES ALL GIFTS given by the COMFORTER will not CEASE . It was not written nor did the prophets of old testify and say IN THOSE DAYS I will take the spirit of prophesy away . NO , no . THE HOLY GHOST WOULD BE POURED UPON and the GIFTS GIVEN , TO ALL WHO BELIEVE . not just on prophets anymore , but the gifts would be available on all men, women and so on . AGABUS WARNED OF COMING DEARTH . HE was A PROPHET . JEREMIAH WARNED OF COMING DEARTH and HE was a prophet . THE OFFICE Of a prophet DOES NOT , DID not , will NOT cease , TILL JESUS RETURNS again . FOR THEN it is no longer needed . WE MUST not take the advice of men gone wrong , WE MUST not . WE SHALL NOT , and will NOT . I am very sorry that most have rejected the true CHRIST , I am very sorry that most of the church is false now . I am very sorry that many operate with miracles and prophecies UNDER false spirits . BUT that does not mean THE REAL GIFTS , AND ALL OFTHEM are not STILL HERE . HERE is why many no longer see the gifts . AND HE COULD NOT HEAL THEIR BECAUSE of THEIR , THEIR , THIER , THEIR , THEIR UNBELIEF. and men who taught oasas and other things and got sin filled no longer saw gifts , THEN they had to come up with a reason . SO they , THEY , THEY said the gift of prophesy or other offices CEASED. WHEN the very canon they CLAIM IS SEALED. AND IT IS . BUT they like the jews of old were, THEY READ IT , BUT IT IS NOT IN THEM TO UNDERSTAND . THEY FOLLOW ANOTHER JESUS , ANOTHER GOSPLE and thus they are just being led astray . SAME with many false ones , WHO even have miracles and false prophecies TEHY TOOO are being deceived as well. THE GIFTS GOD giveth AS HE SEEMS FIT . And to know the difference between the clean and unclean TO KNOW the difference between the evil and those who follow JESUS , THOSE who follow men and satan , or those who follow CHRIST , CAN BE SEEN . If one has the ears , and eyes OF THE HOLY GHOST to guide them . WE IN dangerous times . AND THIS IS HEAVY ON MY SPIRIT . One will surface in time , and they will push the idea of contemplative prayer as well upon the people . IF ANY HERE is doing that type of prayer . YA BETTER CEASE IT . CAUSE I WILL SHUT DOWN ANY KIND of meditation that is contrary TO JESUS . Whomever is dabbling in those prayers , BETTA CEASE IT and do NOT BRING it into the group . I ONLY SAY that IF ANY here is doing that . BUT be on guard , ITS COMING . and its gonna get shut down when or if I see it .
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