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Post by frienduff on Jun 29, 2018 13:20:59 GMT -5
I am not denying that there were prophets sent in the NT, for some came as recorded, and their names were mentioned. All was needed to build up and establish the church to get it going. I don't see the church now as the same church back then. It has changed a lot. Maybe I am wrong, but if there are prophets today, who are they? What are they speaking? What's their doctrine? Are they just copying the Lord's words? Ellen White was supposed to be a great prophet. She is founder of the SDA church. What's her doctrine? Charles T Russell founder of the JW's - what's his doctrine? Mohamad - he was a prophet - what's his doctrine? Nostradamus - another prophet - what's his doctrine? All seem to be promoting a doctrine. Who are the prophets today? What's their doctrine? If any prophet comes into a church and holds your doctrine of course you are going to believe them. If it's the only doctrine we know, how do we know it's the true one? We were not warned that many prophets will come in the last days, but that many false prophets will come. There is a difference. Prophecy concerns future events...things to come before they happen. Is there anything new we should know that the Lord's prophet's have not told us? Why do we reject God's prophets already sent, and accept ones we don't know? Enoch was a prophet, he prophesied many things, but he is still to this day rejected. Baruch (Barak) was a prophet, another one rejected, and Esdras, a prophet...aka (Ezra), rejected also, all these who God mentioned in scripture rejected, and we have got their words today, but we accept unknowns? Their are true prophets among the body today . A true prophet would not prophesy of money and good times and peace . THEY WOULD SOUND , THEIR MESSAGE WILL SOUND like the prophets OF OLD .They will warn , they will warn out against the wicked, call for repentance , AND GOD will show them things coming and they will be warning of those things which are to come .They will sound nothing like the nar prophets , like the wicked prosperity prophets , like the all inclusive prophets . THOSE ARE FALSE . THOSE ARE FALSE . THOSE ARE FALSE . But their are still ones among us , WHO are shown things , AND THOSE THINGS DO COME TO PASS, and their MESSAGE is a message of warning , repentance and the things which are soon to come . THEY AMONG US SiSTER . THEY JUST AINT POPULAR . THEY HATED PLAIN MEN . HATED ORDINARY LOWLY PLAIN ONES .
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Post by John on Jun 29, 2018 13:35:13 GMT -5
Two points I want to make about Sister's post. First, pointing out examples of false teachers doesn't make everyone false, nor is it a Bible based argument there are no prophets today. Secondly, what people question about Enoch and similar books is if everything in them is genuine.
Frienduff, what are contemplative prayers?
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Post by frienduff on Jun 29, 2018 13:41:11 GMT -5
Its like centering prayer . You try and clear you mind of all things , focus on a word or oject . repeat a phrase , repeat the phrase or a word , or keep seeing an object to clear your mind . THEMS EVIL , they new age , Contemplative mystic prayer . I will go and try and find a clear definition of it . WE do not pray , THINKING we will be heard for our phrases or repeating a phrase over and over again . THAT IS NEW AGE . THAT allows A kundalin or other dark spirit access in . Or breathing prayers . DO NOT heed any of it . WE Simply pray as JESUS said too . I will go \find some clear teachings on this , SO WE STEER CLEAR OF IT .
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Post by frienduff on Jun 29, 2018 13:43:36 GMT -5
Contemplative prayer (also referred to as centering prayer, breath prayer, meditation or listening prayer) is one of the most esteemed spiritual disciplines taught in spiritual formation. In both practice and purpose, contemplative prayer stands in contrast with what Scripture teaches about prayer.
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Post by John on Jun 29, 2018 13:55:20 GMT -5
If I understand you right, you are speaking of trying to go into an altered state of consciousness, like where people claim to have out of body experiences. That is new age.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 13:59:02 GMT -5
<< I am not denying that there were prophets sent in the NT, for some came as recorded, and their names were mentioned. All was needed to build up and establish the church to get it going. I don't see the church now as the same church back then. It has changed a lot. Maybe I am wrong, but if there are prophets today, who are they? What are they speaking? What's their doctrine? Are they just copying the Lord's words? >>
Sister, we have had prophetic gifts in the Body of Christ all along....but remember Paul saying that after he departed wolves would come in and decimate the flock. Things have not been great ever since, except for a remnant down through history. And now at the end of the age, the church has waxed old and decaying in the falling away.......from scripture it does seem that this is like a fading away of the church per se, like the old covenant faded away and the Temple eventually was destroyed. That's what I seem to be seeing in scripture concerning the end and how it will be at the return of the Lord.....and if so, it reconciles what you are observing about there being mostly false prophets in these latter days (except for a remnant), as well as those OT scriptures that speak about prophets eventually no longer being used by God. Anyway, maybe see if that fits with other scriptures that you know.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 14:09:50 GMT -5
Butero and frienduff....would you please explain your understanding of Zechariah 13:1-4, why it is prophesied that prophets will be ashamed of being prophets. That passage always puzzled me. But is your understanding of that different from what I was saying?
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Post by frienduff on Jun 29, 2018 15:19:43 GMT -5
Butero and frienduff....would you please explain your understanding of Zechariah 13:1-4, why it is prophesied that prophets will be ashamed of being prophets. That passage always puzzled me. But is your understanding of that different from what I was saying? Just read a wee bit further on for fuller understanding . Jesus himself quoated this , Very passage to his own desciples . Father down it says AWAKE O SWORD AGAINST THE SHEPARD . AND THE SHEEP SHALL BE SCATTERED . JESUS QUOATED THAT TO HIS DESCIPLES WHEN HE SPOKE OF WHAT WAS COMING THAT VERY NIGHT . WE gots to read it all . THIS is not saying the office of a true prophet would cease . Say hi to sister for me . But this is not saying the office of a prophet would cease . See it also says NEITHER shall the prophet WEAR a ROUGH GARMENT TO DECIEVE . TO DECIEVE . its talking about false prophets. SO CLEARLY it is . Lets not dig in old test to try and find things to agree with teachings we ought not . . For if we are not careful we can be deceived . Read the whole , as a whole .
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Post by John on Jun 29, 2018 15:27:57 GMT -5
Butero and frienduff....would you please explain your understanding of Zechariah 13:1-4, why it is prophesied that prophets will be ashamed of being prophets. That passage always puzzled me. But is your understanding of that different from what I was saying? It is speaking of false prophets that were leading the people astray. I take it to be during the millennial reign. It speaks of those who came against Jerusalem in the prior chapter.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 8:24:32 GMT -5
We can look deeper at the prophetic scriptures with the help of His Spirit....because His voice is like the sound of many waters....His wisdom is manifold....He is saying more than one thing at once. There is truth on the surface, but also at the same time there is truth deeper down. The prophets do speak of the future, how it will be at the return of the Lord....what to expect and pray for. And since the old tends to persecute the new, if the Lord gives us an idea of what the new will look like His people will recognize it when it comes instead of fighting against it.
Contemplative prayer and other new age practices that involve emptying the mind are the opposite of the gospel.....since we are to be FILLED not emptied.....filled with His Spirit and filled with the word of God, which we "eat" and hide in our heart and that is what we are to meditate on, His word. Like the clean animals of scripture are those who chew the cud....we bring to mind the word of God and chew the cud of His word, meditate on it, pondering it prayerfully. It's the opposite of emptying our minds. Having our minds and hearts FULL of His Spirit and His word is what keeps unclean spirits from coming in...it protects us from them in this evil world.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 8:34:52 GMT -5
He still pours new wine into new wineskins and that is why the remnant are in the wilderness, to be made into new wineskins, because we need to be. But it's still true that people having tasted the old like the old better than the new. Something new is coming in the time just prior to the return of the Lord, associated with His return. Jerusalem in scripture is a type/shadow of the church......New Jerusalem will be a new paradigm compared to the old church, just as the new covenant was a new concept to the old covenant. (Simeon and Anna, represented the old fading away, waiting patiently on the Lord for the mediator of the new covenant to arrive...and so they recognized Him when He did.) The church as it is, has been a little donkey, the foal of a donkey that He rode into Jerusalem on, meek and mild, but the Bride of Christ will be the white war horse Jesus will powerfully ride into battle, riding into New Jerusalem, so to speak, and conquering it. We see the picture of this with the two witnesses receiving power and doing greater works than Jesus did....and being persecuted for it. But it is not something that man can drum up or try to bring about ourselves, all we need do is keep obeying the Lord, wait on Him, and pray and watch, and it will happen suddenly and spontaneously, just as the down payment of the Spirit was suddenly poured out at Pentecost.
I'm not sure about the timing of this in terms of when it will happen in relation to other things that are prophesied....going by the account of the two witnesses it seems it will be about the last 3 1/2 years prior to the bodily return of Jesus to earth, IF we are to understand the thousand two hundred and three-score days literally. So God's people, His one-man church made up of two, will RECEIVE POWER and prophesy...and be executed like John the Baptist was (the last of the rough garment OT prophets), and that will be the last we see of prophesying, going into the millennial reign and New Jerusalem. (I'm guessing it might be after Antichrist is revealed and after the Temple is rebuilt in Jerusalem....since that seems to be when persecution will begin in earnest against those who refuse to worship Antichrist and take the mark of the Beast.) And going by the Elijah showdown with the false prophets of Baal, it looks like we can expect it to be God's reply to what the false prophets have drummed up first, so it will be after the counterfeit arrives.
So many scriptures keep coming to mind with these things, one after another....the woman in the wilderness (gave birth to the man-child, so she is born again) the devil will attempt to deceive her with a counterfeit river...a counterfeit to the genuine river of God will try to tempt us, but the earth will swallow it...God will protect her...the earth swallowing the river might have to do with the dryness of the desert wilderness we are in, so it absorbs that river....our flesh being crucified, starved to death in the drought circumstances of our wilderness, prior to the genuine latter rain that will come after we get tested by the counterfeit.
Num 16:30 But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.
Isa 43:18-21 Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen. This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jun 30, 2018 21:08:35 GMT -5
I don't know what it is about prophets that causes so much contention. We know prophets came to Paul, long after John the Baptist was dead, so why the controversy? If this is only about whether or not a prophecy teacher is a prophet, that is a minor point, as it is only a title, but to deny prophets exist after John the Baptist is to deny the prophets in Acts and the ministry gift mentioned in Corinthians.
I am not denying that prophets came. It is mentioned throughout all the scriptures. The name of Christ and the message of salvation had to be spread by mouth because they didn't have all the word of God contained in one book like we have today. Things were read out, and not everyone could read and write. Today we have the Word, and a record of all the things that the prophets spake contained in the bible. Everything for us to know is recorded, and made easy for us to access, and if we want guidance, we just have to read the scriptures and the Word will direct us. Why should we need prophets today, when they were sent already? God's Word doesn't change, and his Word is just as alive today as it was back then. In fact it is more powerful because most of the prophesies concerning the end times, are for us now and we can understand better than what they could back then. Without understanding the prophecies we can be deceived easily and be led into false doctrine. I think it is most important. the purpose of prophecy is not limited to revelation. to say no more prophets exist today is to ignore a multitude of scripture.
1 cor 14:3...But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
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Post by Sister on Jul 1, 2018 1:19:02 GMT -5
Matthew 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
None of the prophets were hidden from us and given to only a select few. Not one. Every word that the Lord speaks is given to all of us to benefit from. Whether we understand what they say or not, it is up to us to seek. God is fair. His Word is a witness to the just and the unjust.
If there truly is a prophet around I want to know what he says. So I am asking where are they and who are they? Can anyone show me?
Yes it does say in the NT that Christ will send prophets, ...but their names are mentioned, and Paul came, he prophesied, and Jude came, he prophesied, and the youngest apostle John came and he prophesied, and many more in between, great and small, all mentioned to get this church established and word sent out.
John who wrote the last book (Revelation) mentioned that that there were two prophets to come in the end times. He did not mention that many prophets would come, only these. So we wait for them, and the whole world will hear what they have to say for nothing is hidden. All is for a witness.
But some say they are in your churches. Only given to you. Are these the same churches that are of the falling away? My church is Christ, and the apostles, and all the prophets from the Old and New testament. We need to put the truth first before our church, go back to the Word and heed the warnings. There is a lot of deceptions happening in the last days. Don't believe everything is from God, Satan can copy, however he cannot copy the truth. Go to the doctrine, the true doctrine which is in the Word. Any one can preach that God is not happy with some of us, or to strengthen the things that are weak, for this is written all over the scriptures. If we are reading and obeying the Word, we should know this. What we don't know is what Babylon the Great is, and how to come out of her. Anything that is of the world is of her. Christ has nothing in the world, and gives us nothing of the world. He gives us his spirit which is truth. This is what is going to see us through.
Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Colossians 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Colossians 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jul 1, 2018 7:36:20 GMT -5
Matthew 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
None of the prophets were hidden from us and given to only a select few. Not one. Every word that the Lord speaks is given to all of us to benefit from. Whether we understand what they say or not, it is up to us to seek. God is fair. His Word is a witness to the just and the unjust. If there truly is a prophet around I want to know what he says. So I am asking where are they and who are they? Can anyone show me? Yes it does say in the NT that Christ will send prophets, ...but their names are mentioned, and Paul came, he prophesied, and Jude came, he prophesied, and the youngest apostle John came and he prophesied, and many more in between, great and small, all mentioned to get this church established and word sent out. John who wrote the last book (Revelation) mentioned that that there were two prophets to come in the end times. He did not mention that many prophets would come, only these. So we wait for them, and the whole world will hear what they have to say for nothing is hidden. All is for a witness. But some say they are in your churches. Only given to you. Are these the same churches that are of the falling away? My church is Christ, and the apostles, and all the prophets from the Old and New testament. We need to put the truth first before our church, go back to the Word and heed the warnings. There is a lot of deceptions happening in the last days. Don't believe everything is from God, Satan can copy, however he cannot copy the truth. Go to the doctrine, the true doctrine which is in the Word. Any one can preach that God is not happy with some of us, or to strengthen the things that are weak, for this is written all over the scriptures. If we are reading and obeying the Word, we should know this. What we don't know is what Babylon the Great is, and how to come out of her. Anything that is of the world is of her. Christ has nothing in the world, and gives us nothing of the world. He gives us his spirit which is truth. This is what is going to see us through. Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, Colossians 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Colossians 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? sister, i have received prophecy. Every word came true. I have even known a prophetess. she never gave me a prophecy tho. You may even know a prophet, but they wont tell you while you are talking like that because you wont believe it unless God speaks thru them to you and you see for yourself. Ask God.
Prophecies i have recieved... The prophet was ministering to me out of the book of daniel and we got into an arguement he said tonight you are going to have a dream... i awoke and the guy who was a prophet was standing at the foot of my bed. i forgot the dream as soon as i woke up. He said oh sorry i need to use the bathroom... but guess what when he left the room he went the wrong way down the hall to the bathroom, because i thought it was bologna. in the morning i told him i couldnt remember the dream... as He gave me the interpretation i could remember the dream. In the dream i saw my wife. and i saw the city where God is. i spoke with angels in another language, which i dont know but obviously i am very fluent in.
another time... i was sad. didnt want to die but didnt want to live either. i was going to kill myself to end it... went to the same guy weeping all the way across town. he listened to my sob story. when i was finished he said your heart is going to spring holes and leak out all the pain, and one day you will look back and smile and have joy when you think on this. it didnt help me then so i took out weeping still. a few days later the sorrow got the better of me. i tied a noose, busted a hole in the celing and tied it up. before i stuck my head in peace hit me. it laid me out on the bed. i was praying in tongues and an angel stood next to my bed giving me the interpretation. as i prayed i felt my spirit spring holes and all my pain rushed out... today when i think back, i do smile.
there is more but if two times wont do it for you i am just wasting my time. who told you this teaching prophets dont exist? from where did you hear it? did The Holy Spirit tell you this? no. He did not. I know He didnt because of experience. I know this because of what God has told me personally.
I say again: the purpose of prophecy is not limited to revelation. to say no more prophets exist today is to ignore a multitude of scripture.
1 cor 14:3...But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
When i received prophecy it was to comfort and edify and i guess to an extent to exhort. why would i make this up sister? why would i curse myself and lie on God? I will gain nothing by telling you lies. Nor will you.
Ask Him. dont just listen to some preacher, even if it sounds good. take it to God.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 8:23:54 GMT -5
There are prophets today...else there would be no pastors or teachers or evangelists either. Remember that there are divers administrations and divers operations of the same gifts. But no longer under the old covenant way of doing things. (Though I believe a short time is coming in the end, when each one will be so filled with the Spirit that everyone will manifest all the gifts just like Jesus did...not until then will the "in part" be done away with, that day is not here yet.) But it comes to mind today that there are matters that are too great for us, and we need to be careful not to get ahead of the Lord, otherwise if we run on ahead of Him, we will leave Him behind so to speak, and we can get off track.
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