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Post by John on Feb 24, 2021 21:33:14 GMT -5
Finally, in Revelation, doctrine (didache) comes up 3 times.
Revelation 2:14-15 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblinglock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
Revelation 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak, I will put upon you none other burden.
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ohhello
Senior Member
Global Moderator
Let us rejoice in the Lord Jesus!
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Post by ohhello on Feb 25, 2021 5:48:26 GMT -5
The Lord is certainly emphasising to us how critical it is to keep to scriptural doctrine and not divert off elsewhere. Great posting. Thank you brother John.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 25, 2021 13:19:37 GMT -5
The Lord is certainly emphasising to us how critical it is to keep to scriptural doctrine and not divert off elsewhere. Great posting. Thank you brother John. A lamb loves every word of GOD . No matter the cost it clings to THE LORD , loving all His sayings . LOVING TRUTH . Thats right sister . Now let all praise the LORD .
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Feb 27, 2021 0:27:16 GMT -5
Do you think all doctrine is equally important and that we should be unified on it all?
For example, agreeing on the Resurrection of Jesus verses agreeing on how many elders to have in q local congregation.
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Post by John on Feb 27, 2021 5:28:30 GMT -5
Do you think all doctrine is equally important and that we should be unified on it all? For example, agreeing on the Resurrection of Jesus verses agreeing on how many elders to have in q local congregation. That is a good question. I believe that there is a correct answer to everything, and that in reality, what we call grey areas are not really grey. The problem is, we do not always know the truth. All we can do is strive to get as close to right as possible. We dig into the Bible and seek God and do our best.
While I do think there is a correct answer to all things, and I do believe all doctrine is important, I do not think all doctrine is equally important. Some things effect our salvation and others do not. In an ideal situation, the church would be in full agreement on every single issue, but that will never be possible. As such, we should be united in agreeing with basic things, like the plan of salvation, that the Bible is God's Word, and we should do our best to follow the Bible's teachings. We should have an understanding about who Jesus Christ is, not just a prophet but God himself. I do think that believing in the resurrection of Christ is an essential doctrine. How can we believe that we will rise again if we do not believe the Lord rose from the grave? We must believe that Jesus conquered the grave, or our hope is in this life only and we are most miserable. Things like how many elders there are in a local congregation is not spelled out in scripture, so that would be left up to individual congregations, and likely according to the number of members they have.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 27, 2021 10:40:03 GMT -5
Do you think all doctrine is equally important and that we should be unified on it all? For example, agreeing on the Resurrection of Jesus verses agreeing on how many elders to have in q local congregation. That is a good question. I believe that there is a correct answer to everything, and that in reality, what we call grey areas are not really grey. The problem is, we do not always know the truth. All we can do is strive to get as close to right as possible. We dig into the Bible and seek God and do our best.
While I do think there is a correct answer to all things, and I do believe all doctrine is important, I do not think all doctrine is equally important. Some things effect our salvation and others do not. In an ideal situation, the church would be in full agreement on every single issue, but that will never be possible. As such, we should be united in agreeing with basic things, like the plan of salvation, that the Bible is God's Word, and we should do our best to follow the Bible's teachings. We should have an understanding about who Jesus Christ is, not just a prophet but God himself. I do think that believing in the resurrection of Christ is an essential doctrine. How can we believe that we will rise again if we do not believe the Lord rose from the grave? We must believe that Jesus conquered the grave, or our hope is in this life only and we are most miserable. Things like how many elders there are in a local congregation is not spelled out in scripture, so that would be left up to individual congregations, and likely according to the number of members they have.
Concerning meats , drinks and days some will be weak some will be strong , but let neither side condemn the other . He who is weak in the faith eats only herbs , He who is strong is persauded that all meats etc are clean . But both do as they do unto the LORD . Now concerning sin , That cannot be tolerated and for the safety of the flock and the one in error it must always be dealt with fast . Did you know that if we had never learned some of the mainstream teachings , but just the bible , we would easily be agreed in all they wrote and said . As far as mid pre and post trib , i dont believe one is necessarily condemned , so long as they dont add to or take from that book . Example . If anyone comes teaching an air conditioned hell , THAT IS deadly dangerous to the soul who does such a thing . We cannot omit the lake of fire or we have just taken away from that book . AND GOD will do as HE says HE will do unto the one who takes from or adds to that book . We must be fully persauded that JESUS must be confessed by mouth and believed that GOD rose him from the dead to be saved . AND we must agree that we are never to omit ONE teaching OF JESUS . ITs simple really , JUST learn the bible . Learn what JESUS said , Learn what the apostles wrote . AND DONT LET MAN OMIT ANY OF IT with the excuse those were different times and it dont apply to us today . Cause that thar is A LIE . and woe to the soul who can so easily do such a thing . If even paul delivered some over unto destruction of the flesh , for simply teaching the ressurection is past already and HE even said they blaspheme . We need to take things serious . We grew up in a world , in a church age , that by and large had long been conforming to the age , NOT TO THE WORD . THUS its real easy . GO back into bibles and learn it well . THAT pattern is , IS and ISSSS the only pattern that will work . Too many can use the same words and yet use those words like love , freedom , liberty , BUT DO SO as an occasion to serve the flesh , to justify sin . WOE unto them they have gone in the way of the wicked and have long taught things like feminism , inclusvism and all to keep their numbers large , THUS FOR GAIN , FOR MONEY , FOR PROFIT . And let no lamb who names the name of JESUS , conform to the times , but let us be transformed by the renewing of our minds , BEING focused on sound bible doctrine .
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Post by frienduff on Feb 27, 2021 10:48:31 GMT -5
Do you think all doctrine is equally important and that we should be unified on it all? For example, agreeing on the Resurrection of Jesus verses agreeing on how many elders to have in q local congregation. Lets see and examine what one once wrote . For all doctrine is essential for correction , for reproof , for instruction in righteouness , that one may be throughly furnished unto all good works . And one also wrote , the things that were written , were written for our admonition that we do NOT lust after and do the evil that they did . And i am going to use an example that i see as of late more and more churches accepting . WHEN the men of lott surrounded the house and called unto lott that they wanted to KNOW the men . Lott did not welcome them with all inclusive arms and say , HEY GOD is love . NO , he corrected them and said DO NOT DO so wickedly . AND they turned on Him for it , but the angels put a blindness on the men who wanted to do such a thing THEN destroyed sodom . JUST as HE will one day destroy all who embrace sin and had pleasure in unrighteousness and loved not the truth of the BIBLCAL JESUS , the BIBLCAL gospel , but desired an all inclusive one so they could have pleasure in unrighteouness . GOD gets quite serious about such things . HE EVEN gonna send a STRONG delusion , ON PURPOSE so they who did so will BELIEVE A LIE and BE DAMNED . NOW thems was pauls words and i beleive them . We must flee this wordly version of its seducing love , its seducing liberty , its false freedom . THEY teach and preach bondage , NOT JESUS , BUT BONDAGE . WE must learn our bibles well , be praying for even those who hate us , but never conforming one dot , not a comma even in their direction .
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Post by watchful on Feb 27, 2021 11:03:47 GMT -5
I always wonder what sort of picture people have in mind when they hear or see the word "doctrine"....some think in terms of edicts proclaimed from VIP's sitting high up in a church organization, or a similar mindset. Whereas doctrine simply means teaching, instruction. Everything written in the entire bible is doctrine....but it's funny how so many people can all be reading the same bible but have entirely different understandings of what it is teaching, so there are other factors involved besides simply reading it.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 27, 2021 11:15:31 GMT -5
I always wonder what sort of picture people have in mind when they hear or see the word "doctrine"....some think in terms of edicts proclaimed from VIP's sitting high up in a church organization, or a similar mindset. Whereas doctrine simply means teaching, instruction. Everything written in the entire bible is doctrine....but it's funny how so many people can all be reading the same bible but have entirely different understandings of what it is teaching, so there are other factors involved besides simply reading it. Keep in mind that even the false can say read your bible . But know this as well , ANY true man of GOD would ALWAYS instruct the church , quite often to READ those bibles . If any comes and lessens the dire importance of reading scripture , we better run so far and so fast from those that our own shadows would have to be injected with power aid and steroids to even keep up with us . OUR edicts , MUST FULLY AGREE with biblical doctrine or they must be fled . And there are other factors involved , WE MUST HAVE THE SPIRIT in order to be able to even learn how to righty divide . AND as far as other factors , many cling to sin , and while they can condmen some sin , rest assured they will twist scrip to justify THEIR OWN SIN . beware them . Many teach things which can condmen some evil , but also it will justify whatever evil they lust after . I SEEN this for years . I have watched men who love money justify the prosperity gospel and yet they can still denounce some errors . IT all boils down to one thing . IS OUR HEART FULLY FOR HIM , or is it really for our own pleasures . AND IF we are HIS , our pleasures have become HIS PLEASURES , what PLEASES HIM . FOR that is indeed the FRUIT of the SPIRIT. IT proves that which is PLEASING IN HIS SIGHT . not mens sight , not the ages site , GODS SIGHT .
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Post by frienduff on Feb 27, 2021 11:23:06 GMT -5
And another example is the false emergent church . IT can speak of the great evils of the prosperity gosple , Yet they embrace OTHER SINS , like homosexuality and many paths stuff . A lamb would embrace ALL that JESUS taught , all that the apostels taught , it would embrace all examples in that bible . FOR the SPIRIT would work in them the things that are pleasing to GOD . AND SIN AINT PLEASING TO GOD . Ye shall indeed know them by their fruits . I mean even the POPE can say we must take care of the poor and have good works , BUT what a dangerous one that is indeed . FOR HE has truly omitted the only gospel that can save , and many other evils does it teach . WE NEED JESUS and our book shall be the Bible . Let all grow wise unto salvation in the scrips , by our faith in JESUS . We are living in the darkest of times of heavy deception . And not just in the world but it has swollen fat full even within christendom . We got us many wolves in pulpits and they do the work of the harlot . PREPARE YE for all out persecutions to come against us . Having no fear of man or what he can do . JUST ENDURE faithful to Christ to the end .
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Post by John on Feb 27, 2021 14:51:51 GMT -5
I always wonder what sort of picture people have in mind when they hear or see the word "doctrine"....some think in terms of edicts proclaimed from VIP's sitting high up in a church organization, or a similar mindset. Whereas doctrine simply means teaching, instruction. Everything written in the entire bible is doctrine....but it's funny how so many people can all be reading the same bible but have entirely different understandings of what it is teaching, so there are other factors involved besides simply reading it. People that started denominations did create doctrine according to their understanding, but anyone that teaches anything is preaching doctrine. To teach that doctrine is not important is a doctrine. I agree with you that many do not understand what the word doctrine means, and they attack doctrine without realizing that they have their own doctrine.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Feb 27, 2021 21:38:26 GMT -5
to be clear in response to the OP John put forth i did give it some time to meditate on my words before i post. from where i stand it is difficult to verbalize exactly what i am thinking, and there are alot of angles to this. but before i touch on that... i do want to say, in no way am i saying errors in doctrine are ok... but i think it depends on what the error is. for example... in the other thread John had asked me if i could go to a church with false doctrine and he mentioned a church who says baptisim is not based upon a trinity and is Jesus only. my question is this... are there people in that church that are saved? lets just be real here... Jesus died for our sins... to save us from eternal separation from God. so... when we rank importance... is God going to cast off someone who does have faith and believe in Him, even someone that calls upon Him, and seeks Him... will He cast someone off because they do not understand and have perfect doctrine? i tend to think not as long as the doctrine does not deny Christ or The Way.
having said that... we are to seek truth. and God is liberal in giving knowledge and wisdom when we ask in a right heart. lets also keep in mind its The Holy Ghost who leads us into truth, who teaches us the truth. And... He Is The Truth... The Word of God. And we are judged by what we say and do. not how much we know or dont know. when The Book speaks on false doctrine... in contrast to the good and true doctrine John has searched from Genesis to Revelation for.... the contrast is bad doctrine, such as the kind that leads away from Christ. the kind that spawned gnosticism. the kind that depends on things like circumcision for salvation. so i think its important that we define what doctrine is and is not important and i think the measurement of such is what is the end result... faith in Jesus or denial of Jesus... again, judged by what we say and do, and the power of life and death is in the tongue.
truly if we learn wrong doctrine its as deadly as black mamba venom. i have many times given my testimony on my indoctrination of osas. how i believed it... how i thought no matter what i was still saved. i could sin all i want and i was eternally secure. but God. yes. But God, showed me the error of my doctrine. and my spiritual life suffered. He lead me back to the truth. this is why we must stand against osas here on the narrow way as it has no place in the narrow path... osas leads us away from Jesus. period.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Feb 27, 2021 22:01:01 GMT -5
False doctrine will also preach a false Jesus. that is not cool either.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 28, 2021 10:46:05 GMT -5
I always wonder what sort of picture people have in mind when they hear or see the word "doctrine"....some think in terms of edicts proclaimed from VIP's sitting high up in a church organization, or a similar mindset. Whereas doctrine simply means teaching, instruction. Everything written in the entire bible is doctrine....but it's funny how so many people can all be reading the same bible but have entirely different understandings of what it is teaching, so there are other factors involved besides simply reading it. People that started denominations did create doctrine according to their understanding, but anyone that teaches anything is preaching doctrine. To teach that doctrine is not important is a doctrine. I agree with you that many do not understand what the word doctrine means, and they attack doctrine without realizing that they have their own doctrine.
If any does speak and their doctrine does not agree with biblical doctrine , ITS FALSE DOCTRINE . Yes indeed . Ye shall know them by their fruits . And if we are OF CHRIST then we walk as did HE . AND rest assured , JESUS NEVER CONTRADICTED the holy scriptures . TRUTH IS , HE inspired those holy scriptures . AND THE WORD of GOD cannot deny the words of GOD . JESUS cannot deny himself . HE cannot deny truth . HE IS TRUTH . HE cannot deny the words of God , HE IS THE WORD OF GOD . Let no lamb who names the name of JESUS , ever once heed anyone who cometh in thier own name and preaches doctrine that is contrary to BIBLICAL DOCTRINE . ITS just that simple and that easy . But my question is , WHY DO the people perish ..................FROM LACK OF KNOWLEDGE . Feast upon those bibles . He or she who loves those words , HAS THE WORD already within Them . But he or she who willfully twists such words and teaches lies contrary to sound biblical truth , is in dire grave danger and has no business leading anyone or anything .
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Post by frienduff on Feb 28, 2021 10:51:43 GMT -5
In several places , not just in titus or in timothy , paul wrote what the requirements of a bishop or a deacon must be . AND i heard the word blameless . YET today the requirement seems to be , oh we all have faults , so long as they can speak elegant and mesmerize a crowd , they all good . SEEMS to me , the requirement of being a leaderin this day and age , Sounds nothing like the biblical requirement that was given long ago . IF a man does not have perfect doctrine , HOW can he guide the church into maturity . THUS let the man be well well well seasoned in the holy scrips long before he stands to instruct the church on doctrine . Gel and smiles and being a great orator are not the requirements of leading a church . KNOWING JESUS and those scrips well , IS a requirement .
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