|
Post by Giller on May 3, 2021 9:55:36 GMT -5
We need to fear the Lord, and not take any chance on taking his name in vain.
|
|
|
Post by John on May 3, 2021 10:06:54 GMT -5
Unless a person has had their head in the sand, they know that the Catholics chose December 25 to celebrate Jesus' birth to coincide with a pagan holiday. They were trying to unite all the world religions. As a matter of fact, the Catholics do not believe Jesus was born on December 25.
It has been sometime since I found this information, but I think the source was Catholic, and they have Jesus' real birthday as taking place on August 12, 3758, which became August 12, 3 B.C. They also recognize that the day of Jesus' resurrection was April 28, 3791 or April 28, 31 A.D. They also are responsible for changing our calendars. They even have a day they have on record as being John The Baptist's birthday, and that is March 17, 3758 or March 17, 3 B.C. As such, if they believe this, why celebrate Jesus' birth and His resurrection on the days they do? We all know the answer to that question. I am not arguing about any of that.
With regard to "Mas," Watchful is right in saying that just means celebration, so Christ-Mas means to celebrate Christ. I hardly see that as taking His name in vain to use words that mean to celebrate Christ. At the same time, Catholics have a Mas everyday of the calendar year, and celebrate one saint or another on each day. That to me is problematic in that it reduces a celebration of Christ down to the level of just one of 365 different people. I still do not see this as using His name in vain or even doing anything out of malice, but I do see a possible issue.
Getting back to the actual birthday of Christ, let's say we were starting all over, and we had reason to believe that Jesus was indeed born on August 12. I have no reason to doubt it, because there is no reason for Catholics to give this date as accurate, when it proves they celebrate Jesus birth on the wrong calendar day. Would we consider a holiday celebrating Jesus birthday on that day? The same thing for the resurrection. Would we celebrate it each year on April 28 rather than Easter? Would that be better? I kind of think it would, and leave the paganism out of it.
I know were people get the word "mas" as referring to a celebration, but the word Christmas, does not originate from that, it originates from this: (www.apostolicolivetree.com)
(...CHRISTMAS IS AN INVENTION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
The first error in Christmas celebration has to do with the word ‘Christmas’ itself. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the word ‘Christmas’ is composed of two words, ‘Christ’ and ‘mass,’ and it is in fact a word for the holy day which is the celebration of ‘the mass of Christ.’ Did you get that?
“The word for Christmas in late Old English is Cristes Maesse, the Mass of Christ, first found in 1038, and Cristes-messe, in 1131.”...
...The word ‘Christmas’ itself is an attempt to join the Holy Name of Christ with ‘mass,’…
...Earlier it was proven that ‘Christmas’ is actually a compound word, the joining together of ‘Christ’ and ‘mass.’ The ‘mass’ doctrine is a falsehood of the Roman Catholic Church….
…It is based on the doctrine of ‘transubstantiation,’ the belief that the bread and wine of the Lord’s Supper ACTUALLY BECOME THE LITERAL body of Jesus and the blood of Jesus. That doctrine is indeed akin to cannibalism in some respects! .....)
It was a word that was brought about in the dark ages, and it really did come from the Catholic church, so it did not originate from the way some use the word mas, but it's true intention was to point to the Roman Catholic celebration of transubstantiation, so it is wrong to associate Christ's name with the word mass, or short form mas, and God never called Jesus' birth that. Catholics take their version of communion during the Mas, but the word mas itself only means celebration. As such, I still see no issue with the name Christmas, though I agree the Catholics are in error believing bread turns to actual flesh and wine to blood.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on May 3, 2021 10:08:14 GMT -5
I know were people get the word "mas" as referring to a celebration, but the word Christmas, does not originate from that, it originates from this: (www.apostolicolivetree.com)
(...CHRISTMAS IS AN INVENTION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
The first error in Christmas celebration has to do with the word ‘Christmas’ itself. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the word ‘Christmas’ is composed of two words, ‘Christ’ and ‘mass,’ and it is in fact a word for the holy day which is the celebration of ‘the mass of Christ.’ Did you get that?
“The word for Christmas in late Old English is Cristes Maesse, the Mass of Christ, first found in 1038, and Cristes-messe, in 1131.”...
...The word ‘Christmas’ itself is an attempt to join the Holy Name of Christ with ‘mass,’…
...Earlier it was proven that ‘Christmas’ is actually a compound word, the joining together of ‘Christ’ and ‘mass.’ The ‘mass’ doctrine is a falsehood of the Roman Catholic Church….
…It is based on the doctrine of ‘transubstantiation,’ the belief that the bread and wine of the Lord’s Supper ACTUALLY BECOME THE LITERAL body of Jesus and the blood of Jesus. That doctrine is indeed akin to cannibalism in some respects! .....)
It was a word that was brought about in the dark ages, and it really did come from the Catholic church, so it did not originate from the way some use the word mas, but it's true intention was to point to the Roman Catholic celebration of transubstantiation, so it is wrong to associate Christ's name with the word mass, or short form mas, and God never called Jesus' birth that. Catholics take their version of communion during the Mas, but the word mas itself only means celebration. As such, I still see no issue with the name Christmas, though I agree the Catholics are in error believing bread turns to actual flesh and wine to blood. The Catholics invented the word.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on May 3, 2021 10:08:44 GMT -5
But anyhow, God is good, and there is food for thought here.
|
|
|
Post by John on May 3, 2021 10:11:00 GMT -5
We need to fear the Lord, and not take any chance on taking his name in vain. I do not see celebrate Christ as taking His name in vain. Many of your concerns I agree with, but not that. I am far more bothered with calling Sunday the Sabbath. The RCC helped bring that about. The RCC has really corrupted our society.
|
|
|
Post by John on May 3, 2021 10:12:11 GMT -5
Catholics take their version of communion during the Mas, but the word mas itself only means celebration. As such, I still see no issue with the name Christmas, though I agree the Catholics are in error believing bread turns to actual flesh and wine to blood. The Catholics invented the word. It is still defined celebration.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on May 3, 2021 10:20:23 GMT -5
I believe to God roots matter, and it matters to me.
|
|
|
Post by John on May 3, 2021 10:30:41 GMT -5
I believe to God roots matter, and it matters to me. How can that be? If that were true, we would have to look to the root of where each word came from to see who first created it. I fully respect your view on this, but knowing that mas means celebrate, I do not accept that to say Celebrate Jesus or Christmas is using Jesus' name in vain. I do think you made good points not to celebrate Christmas, but that is a hard sell. Also, I have had pagans and Christians alike question a Sunday Sabbath. I questioned that as a child. We need to seriously look at how that is causing us to violate another commandment of God.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on May 3, 2021 10:35:45 GMT -5
I believe to God roots matter, and it matters to me. How can that be? If that were true, we would have to look to the root of where each word came from to see who first created it. I fully respect your view on this, but knowing that mas means celebrate, I do not accept that to say Celebrate Jesus or Christmas is using Jesus' name in vain. I do think you made good points not to celebrate Christmas, but that is a hard sell. Also, I have had pagans and Christians alike question a Sunday Sabbath. I questioned that as a child. We need to seriously look at how that is causing us to violate another commandment of God.
Well bible wise, God never accepted paganism in any shape or form, and he says himself, do not mix the holy with the unholy, he said to destroy the golden calf, never do I see anywhere in the bible were he says to redefine idols, and then he accepts it. Can you prove by the bible, that God accepts to redefining bad roots, and that he is not concerned in cutting bad roots down?
|
|
|
Post by Giller on May 3, 2021 10:37:20 GMT -5
And I understand on the sabbath issue you are talking about, that is a discussion we can maybe further have at some point I guess, though I am particular do not care for the word Sunday, I personally do not like the word (sun god).
|
|
|
Post by John on May 3, 2021 10:40:38 GMT -5
How can that be? If that were true, we would have to look to the root of where each word came from to see who first created it. I fully respect your view on this, but knowing that mas means celebrate, I do not accept that to say Celebrate Jesus or Christmas is using Jesus' name in vain. I do think you made good points not to celebrate Christmas, but that is a hard sell. Also, I have had pagans and Christians alike question a Sunday Sabbath. I questioned that as a child. We need to seriously look at how that is causing us to violate another commandment of God.
Well bible wise, God never accepted paganism in any shape or form, and he says himself, do not mix the holy with the unholy, he said to destroy the golden calf, never do I see anywhere in the bible were he says to redefine idols, and then he accepts it. Can you prove by the bible, that God accepts to redefining bad roots, and that he is not concerned in cutting bad roots down? No I cannot, just like I can no longer turn a blind eye to changing the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first day. Everything has been corrupted, so we will have to accept that or start over completely using the Bible, which I am all for doing.
|
|
|
Post by John on May 3, 2021 10:42:44 GMT -5
And I understand on the sabbath issue you are talking about, that is a discussion we can maybe further have at some point I guess, though I am particular do not care for the word Sunday, I personally do not like the word (sun god). I do not like the name Sunday either and am moving towards just calling it the 1st day of the week.
|
|
|
Post by watchful on May 3, 2021 10:42:50 GMT -5
And for myself, I think upon his resurrection and death, basically everyday, even on what is called Easter, but I do not remember it because of Easter, but in spite of Easter, me the goal is not Easter or Ishtar, but life in Christ period. I agree brother....the Lord doesn't require us to set apart special days to celebrate or remember such things. My point is only that, for those who choose to do so it is not sin. Those who do and those who don't, do so unto the Lord, and to our own Master we stand or fall. Not my opinion, but that is what I glean from those and other scriptures. Because there is nothing inherently evil about that Sunday in April, or December 25, or celebrating the resurrection and birth of Christ....it's only if it is mixed with something unGodly in the minds and hearts of others, then we should avoid gatherings and dinners on those days for the sake of the consciences of others. Not for our conscience because we know we are not worshiping a false deity whether we are at the party or not...and an idol is nothing in itself either....but so as to not appear to be approving of false worship for the sake of others. And also where the bible teaches us not to cause our brethren to be offended or led astray in cases where someone is with us who would stumble...for their sake, not because it's necessary for our sake. The verse that says to not mention the name of false gods has to do with worshiping and believing in them. It's not wrong to just say the name of Jupiter or Mars or Venus, etc in conversation. Or to warn someone not to worship the Sun god or Moon god or Ishtar or Venus or Mars, for that matter. And we dont' need to change the names of the planets any more than the days of the week, because it's not sin just to say the name, it's only sin if you are mentioning their names in worship or in an approving way. It's not sin to be in a building on English or US soil that is based on Greek and Roman architecture either just because it is a replica of a pagan temple. Right now those buildings AREN'T pagan temples and nobody goes there to worship pagan deities....that's the issue that God looks at...what our heart is doing. We are in the world but not of it....if we had to avoid all things like that God would have to take us out of the world physically. Goodness I'm sure we could dig up a pagan association somewhere at some time with just having a cup of tea. Oh wait, there is!....and if someone wants to 'read' our tea leaves, then of course we would politely decline that, but still I'm sure there would be no sin in finishing our cup of tea regardless. Jesus ate and drank with sinners...and the bible cautions against being over-righteous as well.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on May 3, 2021 10:46:05 GMT -5
Well bible wise, God never accepted paganism in any shape or form, and he says himself, do not mix the holy with the unholy, he said to destroy the golden calf, never do I see anywhere in the bible were he says to redefine idols, and then he accepts it. Can you prove by the bible, that God accepts to redefining bad roots, and that he is not concerned in cutting bad roots down? No I cannot, just like I can no longer turn a blind eye to changing the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first day. Everything has been corrupted, so we will have to accept that or start over completely using the Bible, which I am all for doing.
I totally agree with the mind set of just going by the bible, and that is what I will do, God bless you brother. We have to use the foundation of the word, amen to that.
|
|
|
Post by John on May 3, 2021 10:57:34 GMT -5
And for myself, I think upon his resurrection and death, basically everyday, even on what is called Easter, but I do not remember it because of Easter, but in spite of Easter, me the goal is not Easter or Ishtar, but life in Christ period. I agree brother....the Lord doesn't require us to set apart special days to celebrate or remember such things. My point is only that, for those who choose to do so it is not sin. Those who do and those who don't, do so unto the Lord, and to our own Master we stand or fall. Not my opinion, but that is what I glean from those and other scriptures. Because there is nothing inherently evil about that Sunday in April, or December 25, or celebrating the resurrection and birth of Christ....it's only if it is mixed with something unGodly in the minds and hearts of others, then we should avoid gatherings and dinners on those days for the sake of the consciences of others. Not for our conscience because we know we are not worshiping a false deity whether we are at the party or not...and an idol is nothing in itself either....but so as to not appear to be approving of false worship for the sake of others. And also where the bible teaches us not to cause our brethren to be offended or led astray in cases where someone is with us who would stumble...for their sake, not because it's necessary for our sake. The verse that says to not mention the name of false gods has to do with worshiping and believing in them. It's not wrong to just say the name of Jupiter or Mars or Venus, etc in conversation. Or to warn someone not to worship the Sun god or Moon god or Ishtar or Venus or Mars, for that matter. And we dont' need to change the names of the planets any more than the days of the week, because it's not sin just to say the name, it's only sin if you are mentioning their names in worship or in an approving way. It's not sin to be in a building on English or US soil that is based on Greek and Roman architecture either just because it is a replica of a pagan temple. Right now those buildings AREN'T pagan temples and nobody goes there to worship pagan deities....that's the issue that God looks at...what our heart is doing. We are in the world but not of it....if we had to avoid all things like that God would have to take us out of the world physically. Goodness I'm sure we could dig up a pagan association somewhere at some time with just having a cup of tea. Oh wait, there is!....and if someone wants to 'read' our tea leaves, then of course we would politely decline that, but still I'm sure there would be no sin in finishing our cup of tea regardless. Jesus ate and drank with sinners...and the bible cautions against being over-righteous as well. While I may not agree entirely, you do make a lot of good points. It would be nearly impossible to entirely avoid using the recognized names of a month or planet. We can however create our own Christian culture, and fix what we can among our separatist group. We can do our best to walk right before God.
|
|