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Post by tlsitd on Jul 11, 2018 18:20:01 GMT -5
I heard someone teach before that John the Baptist had doubts about whether Jesus was really the Messiah while he (John) was in prison. John didn't have any doubts about who Jesus was; he sent his disciples to Jesus for their own sake not his. John himself was the one who testified that a man can receive nothing (spiritual truth) except what is given him from heaven (from God). John sent his disciples to Jesus to witness His works and hear His words for themselves so that they might believe---should God grant it.
The fact that John still had disciples after Jesus had begun His ministry, when John was pointing people to Jesus and telling them to follow Him, shows that these men who John sent to Jesus hadn't believed in Him, or else they wouldn't have still been following John.
The next day again John was standing with two of his disciples, and he looked at Jesus as He walked by and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God!" The two disciples heard him say this, and they followed Jesus...One of the two who heard John speak and followed Jesus was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. He first found his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which means Christ). (John 1:35-37, 40,41)
Now a discussion arose between some of John's disciples and a Jew over purification. And they came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, He who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you bore witness---look, He is baptizing, and all are going to Him." (John 3:25,26)
As Jesus said to John's disciples who John had sent to Him: "...Blessed is the one who is not offended by Me." (Luke 7:23)
(Blessed indeed. It is the mercy and gift of God.)
Who has believed what they heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? (Isaiah 53:1)
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jul 11, 2018 19:39:55 GMT -5
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John knew it was Him when we was walking up. LOL to doubting!!!
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Post by frienduff on Jul 11, 2018 22:43:19 GMT -5
That is right . And on that note , IT IS LORD PRAISING TIME .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 6:54:35 GMT -5
John was an ordinary human being, like Elijah was as well and David and all the OT prophets. He was an old covenant prophet (the greatest of them all actually) and the Holy Spirit had not yet been poured out, and he was in prison facing a very uncertain outcome. He did no wrong in seeking encouragement and confirmation for what he believed. Confirmation (a second witness) is something we all should likewise seek when we hear something significant from the Lord.....because it's on the strength of two or three witnesses that everything must be established.
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Post by John on Jul 12, 2018 7:40:24 GMT -5
John was an ordinary human being, like Elijah was as well and David and all the OT prophets. He was an old covenant prophet (the greatest of them all actually) and the Holy Spirit had not yet been poured out, and he was in prison facing a very uncertain outcome. He did no wrong in seeking encouragement and confirmation for what he believed. Confirmation (a second witness) is something we all should likewise seek when we hear something significant from the Lord.....because it's on the strength of two or three witnesses that everything must be established. John did have a moment of doubt when he sent his followers to Jesus to ask if he was indeed the Christ or do they look for another. I wouldn't say there is nothing wrong with that, but it is human. I believe John knew in his heart Jesus was the Christ, but he was discouraged. He was locked up in prison.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 10:06:41 GMT -5
Here's how I see this. John doesn't need our fig leaves, and we will only think so if we have a view of the Lord as being a harsh taskmaster who doesn't remember that we are flesh. John had a need and sought the Lord Jesus for the help and answer that he needed. And Jesus condemned him not, but gave John the answer that he needed and sought for....praise the Lord for He is GOOD and His LOVE endures forever. We don't see the Lord covering anyone with fig leaves in scripture...their needs and lacks were plainly written down that we would learn and be encouraged by their stories. Elijah was a man just as we are....so were all the saints, and none of them were walking around with halos on their heads.
And actually I think it's often because of this wrong view of the Lord that many won't come to Him and acknowledge to Him their weakness of flesh, needs, lacks, emotional wounds, etc, that they try to cover these areas with fig leaves instead of receiving from the Lord what they actually need. We need to allow Him to see and "know" us in truth and then He will prove His goodness to us, that He is for us not against us, and replaces our fig leaves with a real and permanent covering,....Himself...His nature...His healing and wholeness....in whatever areas of our life/heart we are willing to humbly acknowledge our needs to Him. Half the battle is in taking off our fig leaves to allow the Lord access to our hearts...we can fear His condemnation so much, when actually we can trust Him because He loves us with an everlasting love. And not because we are deserving, because none of us are....but for His own namesake....thanks to Jesus who received the condemnation in our place, we can come boldly to the throne of the GRACE that we have need of. Those who were excluded from the kingdom had gifts and works, but never let the Lord Jesus "know" them in this intimate way, AKA repentance. But it can take time to learn a right view of God...usually through experiencing Him in our life, as He teaches us by experience that He doesn't treat us as our sins deserve.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 12, 2018 10:15:39 GMT -5
...and acknowledge to Him their weakness of flesh, needs, lacks, emotional wounds, etc, that they try to cover these areas with fig leaves instead of receiving from the Lord what they actually need. Those who were excluded from the kingdom had gifts and works, but never let the Lord Jesus "know" them in this intimate way, AKA repentance. Excellent, watchful!
"Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." - Proverbs 27:6
"I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you." - John 15:15
"But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way." - 1 Corinthians 12:31
"Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 18:4
Blessings, blessings to you in Jesus' name!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 8:25:39 GMT -5
Amen 2fw......sanctification......it's not an easy path to follow Jesus down, and few are on it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 9:05:48 GMT -5
John the Baptist doesn't need us to look for excuses for him, or to even speculate about his situation....because he only did what the scripture says we are to do, come boldly to the throne of GRACE (Jesus) to obtain mercy and grace in our time of need. It's only if we have a skewed image of God as a harsh finger-pointing tyrant that we would think John needs our vindication. And we need to follow his good example...the Lord is not out to shame us or browbeat us or slap us down for coming to Him with our needs. But we do need Him to make us realize what our needs are before we can come to Him regarding them. Scripture is written to reveal our hearts, as a mirror, and the way that little narrative about John was written was for the same purpose. There was no other reason to even write it down.
Sanctification has more to do with cleaning the inside of the cup after the outside is brought into subjection. I wonder how many of those who are standing in the pulpits of the churches today and in the past, have followed the Lord in sanctification. Most of them haven't, and that's why they present a skewed image of God...either the leaven of the Pharisees or the leaven of Herod. Those are really the only two that Jesus warned us about in particular.
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Post by John on Jul 17, 2018 10:16:49 GMT -5
The stories in the Bible are their for our examples. What can we derive from this? If a man like John the Baptist can have a moment of doubt, when we are having moments like that, we can take comfort and know we are not alone. Sometimes we allow the devil to condemn us over every momentary time of questioning something.
The other thing is what Watchful spoke about. When we are going through difficult times, we can go to God and tell him how we really feel. It does no good to try to cover it up anyway, because he knows everything. What I don't want to do with this story is cover up for John's momentary time of doubt or condemn a great man of God for doing something we are all capable of. I don't even go around condemning Thomas or Peter for their mistakes, because the Bible warns that when we think we stand, take heed lest we fall.
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Post by frienduff on Jul 17, 2018 11:55:00 GMT -5
The stories in the Bible are their for our examples. What can we derive from this? If a man like John the Baptist can have a moment of doubt, when we are having moments like that, we can take comfort and know we are not alone. Sometimes we allow the devil to condemn us over every momentary time of questioning something.
The other thing is what Watchful spoke about. When we are going through difficult times, we can go to God and tell him how we really feel. It does no good to try to cover it up anyway, because he knows everything. What I don't want to do with this story is cover up for John's momentary time of doubt or condemn a great man of God for doing something we are all capable of. I don't even go around condemning Thomas or Peter for their mistakes, because the Bible warns that when we think we stand, take heed lest we fall.
And we both have seen men take full false advantage of this as well. For they USE the bad examples , in a way to make it seem as though ALL IS STILL OKAY . example . LOOK at david they say , HE was in sin , AND HE WAS SAVED . YEAH, BUT NOT IF HE HAD NOT REPENTD OF THE EVIL . HE REPENTED of the evil . We seen this on worthy , didn't we butero . THEY make LIGHT of sin and error and create a mindset that allows folks to be feeling saved EVEN in willfulll sin . SO , while we don't condmen for the error, WE instead LEARN from ALL examples in that bible . NEVER using any bad example to justify anything , RATHER use it as something to AVOID we must . THEY creating a false love , a love that JUST IS , in truth its a love that serves NOT GOD , but SELF . Wrong god folks , wrong god . I know HE has called us gods , BUT before any gets highminded REMEMBER TWO THINGS . HOW did THE GOD , walk while in the flesh . YEAH , OOPS . JESUS did not come to BE SERVED , he lived JUST LIKE HIS OWN , no better, HE DID NOT have better clothes and food than them . HE DID NOT , he came to serve and minister unto the needs of the people and foremost to HONOR GOD in all things done . JESUS did not point to man . FACT . HE KNEW what is in man . HE never taught or gave man THESE SELF HYPE SPEECHES about how good ya are and how GOD understands ya cant stop sinning . I WANT someone to show me ONE PLACE JESUS EVER said man was GOOD , or that GOD UNDERSTANDS we sin and to relax. I DARE ANYONE to show me that mindset IN JESUS in the prophets , in the apostels , IN THE GOD who spoke from heaven to the seven churches . GO now and search as diligintely as anyone can and find it . PS YOU WONT . YOU FIND THE OPPOSITE . SIN angers GOD , AND WHILE HE IS MERCIFUL , HIS MERCY COMES in WARINGS TO REPENT OR else , Through chastisments too . SEE THE LOVE OF GOD desiers none to perish , AND ALL WHOM HE LOVES he chastens and scourges . SHOW me one place where the prophets , JESUS , the apostels , OR GOD FROM HEAVEN , ever once MADE LIGHT OF SIN , EVER ONCE said man was basically good , EVER ONCE YOU WONT FIND IT . NOW SINNERS need to know WHAT SIN IS , they need to be CONVICTED , and CRY OUT TO THE SAVOIR and HE WILL HEAR THEM. BUT TELL folks all is well, and GOD IS YA BIG DADDY WITH HUGS , IT WONT EVER HAPPEN . MAN needs to see himself IN DIRE NEED OF A SAVOIR . YEAH.
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