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Post by frienduff on Jul 14, 2018 9:34:52 GMT -5
TBN is filled to the full with false prophets and teachers .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 14, 2018 10:11:47 GMT -5
This is a good thread. Sadly, marriage is under constant attack for God's people. Even the Pharisees in all their self-righteous glory couldn't hold the line on divorce.
People have this wacky teaching that God doesn't recognize marriages to the wrong person. If your "true love" is out there somewhere, and the spouse you're stuck with was not "meant to be" then this somehow means your marriage covenant never quite stuck. God sees you "in spirit" being married to your soulmate, and no other human arrangement can overrule it.
Where did we get all this gibberish about soulmates and true loves? From secular human literature. Not a drop of it appears in the Bible.
How do we know when we've found our true love? Apparently when we're intoxicated by raging hormones and emotional flights of fancy (oops, sorry, I meant to say when we're in love). Again, there's not a drop of this in the Bible. Paul never said single people should marry when they fall in love. He said it's better to marry than to burn, but he primarily meant that in terms of sex, and he didn't say the burning itself made marriage a requirement. The law of Moses never said being in the love was the catalyst for marriage. This argument about being in love came from secular human literature.
So if "being in love" is our cue that we've found our soulmate, and this is the alleged basis for a real marriage, then we're saying marriage is held hostage to our hormones. This is what it means at bottom. Suddenly love is not a disciplined lifestyle, nor a choice, nor a form of honor, but simply an experience that comes to us from nowhere. Maybe it comes from a cherubim shooting arrows at us. Yeah, that's it.
Here's an innovative idea. Let's give it a spin, just for fun. Find a person (of the opposite sex) who is Godly, kind, sensible, hard-working, trustworthy, able to manage money, and reasonably attractive. Make a choice to love and honor him/her whether you "feel" like it or not. 1 Corinthians 13 does not say one word about love being a hormonal sensation. Hormones may feel good (and they can definitely help lead to more babies), but hormones aren't love. Choose to cherish this person who was brave enough to take the gamble of a lifetime on you. As the two of you survive hard times together, and the choice of love becomes a lifestyle, you will discover that hormonal feelings of affection become consistent, stable, and mutual.
You are free to marry any potential spouse who fits the criteria. Stop worrying about a soulmate. Proverbs 31 doesn't say the woman was her husband's "one true love." It says she was a virtuous and trustworthy woman! That's all!!!
Habitual cheaters with multiple ex-spouses are usually big proponents of the "being in love" and "looking for my soulmate" mentality. In more traditional cultures where arranged marriages (based on sensible, pragmatic, money-management criteria) happen, the divorce rate is shockingly low, and these married couples tend to tell pollsters that they really do feel happier.
Wait -- you mean a married couple with a clean house, no fighting, bills getting paid, and children feeling safe, tend to be happier than emotion-driven drama queens? Say it aint so!!!!
The Bible says sin feels good for a season but the end result is pain and death. People who make disciplined, sensible decisions tend to be better off in the end. How much more should this apply to marriage?
When people actually use the Biblical model for engagement and early marriage, divorce becomes far less tempting.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 14, 2018 10:29:08 GMT -5
Let me also say on this. The law of Moses went so far as to require marriage for reasons other than love. If a man died without leaving behind responsible children to take over his property, his next of kin was legally required to take the widow as his wife, give her children to perpetuate the family line, and prevent the property from leaving the family.
God put that in place so that righteous men would have a promise of a heritage to their grandchildren. There's not much point in working hard to create a family legacy if a grandchild's trashy spouse will flush it down the toilet.
I'm not saying these rules apply to us today. But, I'm trying show how serious this marriage thing is. Marriage is about so much more than an individual's self-centered hormonal sensations. It's about the later well-being of children and grandchildren, the reason we all get up and go to work every day, and how much of an impact we hope to make in God's kingdom. It's hard to invest your funds in the church/charity when your funds are being wasted on divorce lawyers.
Uh oh, I'm saying things you will never hear in a typical church. How dare I be logical! How dare I mention consequences of bad decisions! Go ahead and call me a cynical, self-righteous prude. One day I gotta stand before Jesus and explain what I tried to do for His kingdom. He won't be interested in hearing excuses about raging hormones.
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Post by John on Jul 14, 2018 10:29:12 GMT -5
This is a good thread. Sadly, marriage is under constant attack for God's people. Even the Pharisees in all their self-righteous glory couldn't hold the line on divorce. People have this wacky teaching that God doesn't recognize marriages to the wrong person. If your "true love" is out there somewhere, and the spouse you're stuck with was not "meant to be" then this somehow means your marriage covenant never quite stuck. God sees you "in spirit" being married to your soulmate, and no other human arrangement can overrule it. Where did we get all this gibberish about soulmates and true loves? From secular human literature. Not a drop of it appears in the Bible. How do we know when we've found our true love? Apparently when we're intoxicated by raging hormones and emotional flights of fancy (oops, sorry, I meant to say when we're in love). Again, there's not a drop of this in the Bible. Paul never said single people should marry when they fall in love. He said it's better to marry than to burn, but he primarily meant that in terms of sex, and he didn't say the burning itself made marriage a requirement. The law of Moses never said being in the love was the catalyst for marriage. This argument about being in love came from secular human literature. So if "being in love" is our cue that we've found our soulmate, and this is the alleged basis for a real marriage, then we're saying marriage is held hostage to our hormones. This is what it means at bottom. Suddenly love is not a disciplined lifestyle, nor a choice, nor a form of honor, but simply an experience that comes to us from nowhere. Maybe it comes from a cherubim shooting arrows at us. Yeah, that's it. Here's an innovative idea. Let's give it a spin, just for fun. Find a person (of the opposite sex) who is Godly, kind, sensible, hard-working, trustworthy, able to manage money, and reasonably attractive. Make a choice to love and honor him/her whether you "feel" like it or not. 1 Corinthians 13 does not say one word about love being a hormonal sensation. Hormones may feel good (and they can definitely help lead to more babies), but hormones aren't love. Choose to cherish this person who was brave enough to take the gamble of a lifetime on you. As the two of you survive hard times together, and the choice of love becomes a lifestyle, you will discover that hormonal feelings of affection become consistent, stable, and mutual. You are free to marry any potential spouse who fits the criteria. Stop worrying about a soulmate. Proverbs 31 doesn't say the woman was her husband's "one true love." It says she was a virtuous and trustworthy woman! That's all!!! Habitual cheaters with multiple ex-spouses are usually big proponents of the "being in love" and "looking for my soulmate" mentality. In more traditional cultures where arranged marriages (based on sensible, pragmatic, money-management criteria) happen, the divorce rate is shockingly low, and these married couples tend to tell pollsters that they really do feel happier. Wait -- you mean a married couple with a clean house, no fighting, bills getting paid, and children feeling safe, tend to be happier than emotion-driven drama queens? Say it aint so!!!! The Bible says sin feels good for a season but the end result is pain and death. People who make disciplined, sensible decisions tend to be better off in the end. How much more should this apply to marriage? When people actually use the Biblical model for engagement and early marriage, divorce becomes far less tempting. A simple like doesn't do justice to that post. It was a grand slam home run! I hope everybody takes the time to read it, especially single people considering marriage.
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Post by John on Jul 14, 2018 10:34:22 GMT -5
Let me also say on this. The law of Moses went so far as to require marriage for reasons other than love. If a man died without leaving behind responsible children to take over his property, his next of kin was legally required to take the widow as his wife, give her children to perpetuate the family line, and prevent the property from leaving the family. God put that in place so that righteous men would have a promise of a heritage to their grandchildren. There's not much point in working hard to create a family legacy if a grandchild's trashy spouse will flush it down the toilet. I'm not saying these rules apply to us today. But, I'm trying show how serious this marriage thing is. Marriage is about so much more than an individual's self-centered hormonal sensations. It's about the later well-being of children and grandchildren, the reason we all get up and go to work every day, and how much of an impact we hope to make in God's kingdom. It's hard to invest your funds in the church/charity when your funds are being wasted on divorce lawyers. Uh oh, I'm saying things you will never hear in a typical church. How dare I be logical! How dare I mention consequences of bad decisions! Go ahead and call me a cynical, self-righteous prude. One day I gotta stand before Jesus and explain what I tried to do for His kingdom. He won't be interested in hearing excuses about raging hormones. Love it. Another great post full of wisdom.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 14, 2018 11:31:49 GMT -5
Please allow me to add some humble thoughts on divorce. Apparently I'm fired up about this.
When the Bible says a marriage is destroyed by unfaithfulness, we need to be very, gravely, intensely thoughtful about what this means.
If a naive young man is tricked into a coffee date before he realizes he's being played, this is not adultery. If a frustrated wife has one unfortunate conversation with a friend, this is not adultery. "Emotional abandonment" is not a sexual violation. Perceived "verbal abuse" that really just stems from bad communication skills is not adultery. This is not to say that verbal abuse doesn't happen. But we must be careful that we don't slap hyperbolic labels onto someone's bumbling bad behavior.
If you look for an excuse to get out of your marriage, eventually you will find one. If you joke about divorce when things get tough, you will talk yourself into it. If you set aside cash to leave your man in the event of a problem, a problem will magically appear to spend your money.
The adultery clause in the Bible was meant to bring relief to truly abandoned, humiliated spouses -- the kind of adultery where a spouse leaves home to live with someone and says they never want to see you again. THAT is a marriage destroyed. God knew it wasn't fair for unskilled unemployed housewives to find themselves homeless because of a heartless cheater. THAT is a marriage destroyed.
You yelling at your man because he's "emotionally absent" after a hard day of work is a shameful, disgusting conflation of the real hurt other women have endured.
Okay, I think I'm really done this time!
Sorry you've never been told this in a mainstream church.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 14, 2018 11:40:57 GMT -5
People who make disciplined, sensible decisions tend to be better off in the end. How much more should this apply to marriage? Yes, indeed.
If we analyze it in a cold way, the only need for marriage is for having children.
But hormones and feelings make that much harder, it is like human nature tends you to force to desire a family setup.
But analyzing it in a colder way... No one is required to marry, and they are without excuse.
I do not think this is a special gift only a few receive... All could attain such a level of self control if they seek; his burden is light as it is written.
I believe the gift of singleness would work in opposite direction... The person will never marry and they do not want to know about it. "Nevertheless he who stands steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but has power over his own will, and has so determined in his heart that he will keep his virgin, does well." - 1 Corinthians 7:37And that is why it is a gift, because those who do not have it cannot choose otherwise.
"All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given..." - Matthew 19:11
If you want to marry, this may be a gift... And if you do not want to, this may be a gift as well.
"For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that." - 1 Corinthians 7:7
I say this because I have all my feelings and hormones under complete control... But I still want to marry anyway.
Then, I do not know if I am being too stubborn... Or if such thing is better for me or not.
At the end of the day, I am a complete hostage to God's will and I can do nothing without His power and permission.
"A man's steps are of the Lord; How then can a man understand his own way?" - Proverbs 20:24
"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." - Philippians 2:13
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 12:26:01 GMT -5
Agree with what you're saying PG4....being "in love" has been elevated to idolatrous status.....movies, songs and books are mostly about romance....society is completely obsessed with love and sex. Being in love is really just the mating instinct of the human carnal animal....and the devil corrupts it to the max. Mass media has made it very hard to teach reality and truth to the younger generation. All the more is it very encouraging to see a young man here (2fw) who has the truth and is dedicated to the Lord and His will for his life.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 14, 2018 13:31:12 GMT -5
Yes, indeed. If we analyze it in a cold way, the only need for marriage is for having children. I wouldn't say this exactly. The Bible doesn't say children are required for a real marriage. If that was true, then divorce would be allowed after failed pregnancies, and there's no Scripture for that. Paul never said marriage was for children. These are some valid reasons for marriage that the Bible seems to support... 1) You're a perfectly healthy, red-blooded human who wants someone to keep you warm at night. 2) You want a smiling face to be happy to see you when you go home alone after work. Maybe cook a nice dinner when you're exhausted. Maybe be your nurse when you have a sickness. 3) You wish you had a close confidant to help with business, money, social decisions, etc. 4) You need a legal firewall to keep money-grubbing family away from your fortune. 5) You don't want your pets/children/small business to be abandoned when you die. 6) You wish you had someone to defend you and believe in you when no one else does. 7) All of the above wrapped up in one person.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 14, 2018 14:13:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't say this exactly. The Bible doesn't say children are required for a real marriage. I am not saying that children are required for a real marriage...1) You're a perfectly healthy, red-blooded human who wants someone to keep you warm at night. 2) You want a smiling face to be happy to see you when you go home alone after work. Maybe cook a nice dinner when you're exhausted. Maybe be your nurse when you have a sickness. 3) You wish you had a close confidant to help with business, money, social decisions, etc. 4) You need a legal firewall to keep money-grubbing family away from your fortune. 5) You don't want your pets/children/small business to be abandoned when you die. 6) You wish you had someone to defend you and believe in you when no one else does. 7) All of the above wrapped up in one person. Speaking as a man, yes it takes a lot of work if you are living alone and have to work then go home and still prepare your own food.
Then having someone can definitely make your burden far lighter and your life much easier.
And having someone to take care of you when you fall in sickness is great help too...
Imagine living alone and having to cook your food when you are feeling too bad.
Then, yes... Someone can definitely help you in this world, as God intended.
"And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." - Genesis 2:18And those are the things I miss a lot sometimes. But it is possible to live without, but I confess it would be much better otherwise.
But over thinking it will not help me, as it won't change my situation... Then while the time has not come, I will rest in His grace and focus what I must do for now.
"But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord..." - 1 Corinthians 7:32
God bless you in Jesus' name!
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 14, 2018 14:24:45 GMT -5
And those are the things I miss a lot sometimes. But it is possible to live without, but I confess it would be much better otherwise. But over thinking it will not help me, as it won't change my situation... Then while the time has not come, I will rest in His grace and focus what I must do for now. If you meet a pretty girl and you know she will make your life easier, think about marriage. But until then, don't worry about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 15:08:35 GMT -5
God bless you too, 2fw. I was going to make a joke about food just tasting better when someone else makes it too. You are a blessed young man, just keep on with the Lord, leave it in His hands, and I believe He will arrange your life.
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Post by Abby-Joy on Jul 14, 2018 15:23:31 GMT -5
Excellent thread!
I want to tell a story...
There was a certain Christian woman who married a Christian man... they had the same convictions, same desires for children, and how to raise them. They prayed together, laughed together, had great conversations. They had children. Over time, some things (concerning her husband) that were previously hidden came to light... sexual immorality, adultery, anger issues, and some things that were even more serious. She prayed for her husband, encouraged and oftentimes pleaded with her husband to be the head of the home and to stand in his rightful place where he allowed open doors for unsafe people to stand. Because of this, her safety and that of her children were severely compromised. She began to put money aside and eventually left with the children, yet she did not divorce him, as she still cared greatly for her husband and honored her marriage vows before God. They remained in touch and the children were not forbidden to see or be in contact with their father. Her husband even still provided financially, and acknowledged that he was not in the place to protect his family. Divorce was never considered.
Eventually, some very serious circumstances caused them to be back together in one place, and her husband who had previously never tried to purchase a permanent home, now had a desire to provide a real home for his family. This woman saw this as a heartbreak and even cruelty, to be thrust back together with a man who was a danger to his family. But she prayed and cried out to God and resubmitted herself to His leadership, and to her husband. She grew to see her husband in a new light... and a renewed love... although there were still some issues that needed to be healed and dealt with. She knew that God gave her the role of help meet, and committed herself to that role. She would encourage him, love him, and help him grow... as well, she tearfully asked his forgiveness for any pain she had caused him in leaving him 6 years prior (although they both knew that it was needed to live separate for a time). He accepted, and he also made a heartfelt apology to her for his mistakes. The two of them have a new beginning, this time... just the 2 of them. Their children are happy to see their parents growing in their commitment and love. They are working toward a stronger, safer and healthier marriage and home with Jesus Christ at the center.
Is everything suddenly a bed of roses? Absolutely not! Are there areas that need to heal? You better believe it! Are either of them better or more perfect than the other? Nope! They are just 2 broken and flawed humans who made a vow to one another and to God and who took that vow seriously. One should never treat marriage as a convenience and then throw their spouse away just because they annoy them sometimes, or they got fat, or they can no longer work... etc, etc. Marriage is a ministry... to one another. We should never get so wrapped up in ourselves that we can't look at our spouse through God's eyes of love, or offer forgiveness when there is hurt. It is a serious thing.
God is good, and we don't always understand His ways... why do hard or bad things happen? Sometimes it is our own doings... sometimes, God allows things in order to bring us to the place He desires us to be, or maybe for other reasons we do not fully understand. God has a plan and it is for our good and not for evil. We can't always go with the most easy option. But we must trust Him, and know that He works all things for good to those who love Him and are called .... according to HIS purpose!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 15:44:14 GMT -5
Bless you Abby-Joy, what a lovely and encouraging post. This life is a battle and no wonder one day He will wipe every tear away. Yes, marriage is not about "me", it's about "us" and it really takes a lifetime to forge....for the married, the Lord molds and makes us on a Potter's wheel called marriage.
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Post by frienduff on Jul 14, 2018 19:50:06 GMT -5
Excellent thread!
I want to tell a story...
There was a certain Christian woman who married a Christian man... they had the same convictions, same desires for children, and how to raise them. They prayed together, laughed together, had great conversations. They had children. Over time, some things (concerning her husband) that were previously hidden came to light... sexual immorality, adultery, anger issues, and some things that were even more serious. She prayed for her husband, encouraged and oftentimes pleaded with her husband to be the head of the home and to stand in his rightful place where he allowed open doors for unsafe people to stand. Because of this, her safety and that of her children were severely compromised. She began to put money aside and eventually left with the children, yet she did not divorce him, as she still cared greatly for her husband and honored her marriage vows before God. They remained in touch and the children were not forbidden to see or be in contact with their father. Her husband even still provided financially, and acknowledged that he was not in the place to protect his family. Divorce was never considered.
Eventually, some very serious circumstances caused them to be back together in one place, and her husband who had previously never tried to purchase a permanent home, now had a desire to provide a real home for his family. This woman saw this as a heartbreak and even cruelty, to be thrust back together with a man who was a danger to his family. But she prayed and cried out to God and resubmitted herself to His leadership, and to her husband. She grew to see her husband in a new light... and a renewed love... although there were still some issues that needed to be healed and dealt with. She knew that God gave her the role of help meet, and committed herself to that role. She would encourage him, love him, and help him grow... as well, she tearfully asked his forgiveness for any pain she had caused him in leaving him 6 years prior (although they both knew that it was needed to live separate for a time). He accepted, and he also made a heartfelt apology to her for his mistakes. The two of them have a new beginning, this time... just the 2 of them. Their children are happy to see their parents growing in their commitment and love. They are working toward a stronger, safer and healthier marriage and home with Jesus Christ at the center.
Is everything suddenly a bed of roses? Absolutely not! Are there areas that need to heal? You better believe it! Are either of them better or more perfect than the other? Nope! They are just 2 broken and flawed humans who made a vow to one another and to God and who took that vow seriously. One should never treat marriage as a convenience and then throw their spouse away just because they annoy them sometimes, or they got fat, or they can no longer work... etc, etc. Marriage is a ministry... to one another. We should never get so wrapped up in ourselves that we can't look at our spouse through God's eyes of love, or offer forgiveness when there is hurt. It is a serious thing.
God is good, and we don't always understand His ways... why do hard or bad things happen? Sometimes it is our own doings... sometimes, God allows things in order to bring us to the place He desires us to be, or maybe for other reasons we do not fully understand. God has a plan and it is for our good and not for evil. We can't always go with the most easy option. But we must trust Him, and know that He works all things for good to those who love Him and are called .... according to HIS purpose! WE LOVE YOU SISTER . ITS our own sisters story . THROW those hands up and praise the LORD .
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