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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 8:10:50 GMT -5
(And I know it's easy to misconstrue things in writing, so I just want to make it clear that I have no problem with this forum, and am NOT in any way trying to pass comment on anything to do with leadership here...that is not the case at all. I'm only trying to paint a picture in general of one reason the church is in such difficulty now, as well as wanting to bring out what God's intention is in regard to how the Body of Christ is meant to function generally...pointing out those little gems in the scripture, as the Lord was gracious to open my eyes to these things after He led me out of the churches.)
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 15, 2018 8:17:01 GMT -5
And he said, God has laid it on his heart that there is a young person in the church today that God has been dealing with and they were running. there was more about specific details i wont go into. This is a common tactic you see in Baptist (and some other) churches. People are embarrassed/guilt bombed/peer pressured to repent whether they want to or not. These incidents almost always target confused young adults whom the church seemingly cannot convince otherwise. Of course this elder didn't see it as a gift of knowledge, because, truth be told, it very likely wasn't.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 15, 2018 8:41:29 GMT -5
But in a war you need all hands on deck, not just pulpit ministers. Imagine trying to win a war with only the Generals engaged in combat and all the rest of the entire army just sitting, cowed into inaction because of believing they have nothing to contribute, just watching and admiring the Generals and nodding their heads. LOL! Yes, we've really been THAT silly in the church! Jesus has a whole Body, and all parts are needed to do their part in the battle, from the greatest to the least. Even Generals need other members of the army to watch their backs....but that won't happen if the Generals are unapproachable, untouchable, or unteachable because of esteeming others lower than themselves.....many deceptions sneak in because other parts are not standing at their posts or dismiss and second guess their unctions....to the detriment of the Generals, the army as a whole, and the outcome of the battle.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 15, 2018 9:00:06 GMT -5
One of the biggest myths about war is that armies "win" by their glorious charges in battle. Wrong. The outcome of a war is usually determined far in advance, based on the training and empowerment of soldiers, the lining up of resources, an ability to articulate the cause, and pro-active policing against insurrection in the ranks.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 9:17:19 GMT -5
And he said, God has laid it on his heart that there is a young person in the church today that God has been dealing with and they were running. there was more about specific details i wont go into. This is a common tactic you see in Baptist (and some other) churches. People are embarrassed/guilt bombed/peer pressured to repent whether they want to or not. These incidents almost always target confused young adults whom the church seemingly cannot convince otherwise. Of course this elder didn't see it as a gift of knowledge, because, truth be told, it very likely wasn't. It could be sister, that kind of manipulation is not out of the realm of possibility, unfortunately.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 9:32:01 GMT -5
But in a war you need all hands on deck, not just pulpit ministers. Imagine trying to win a war with only the Generals engaged in combat and all the rest of the entire army just sitting, cowed into inaction because of believing they have nothing to contribute, just watching and admiring the Generals and nodding their heads. LOL! Yes, we've really been THAT silly in the church! Jesus has a whole Body, and all parts are needed to do their part in the battle, from the greatest to the least. Even Generals need other members of the army to watch their backs....but that won't happen if the Generals are unapproachable, untouchable, or unteachable because of esteeming others lower than themselves.....many deceptions sneak in because other parts are not standing at their posts or dismiss and second guess their unctions....to the detriment of the Generals, the army as a whole, and the outcome of the battle. I agree, and if I am understanding your point, the point I wanted to make then, is just that the "education" really works both ways (in different ways), for the good of all concerned. We can all see the top-heavy nature of the fallen church and its idol shepherds, and learn from those mistakes. All the parts need each other, it's not just a matter of lesser parts needing the greater parts....but the greater parts need the lesser parts just as much, if we are to believe God's word.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 9:42:09 GMT -5
One of the biggest myths about war is that armies "win" by their glorious charges in battle. Wrong. The outcome of a war is usually determined far in advance, based on the training and empowerment of soldiers, the lining up of resources, an ability to articulate the cause, and pro-active policing against insurrection in the ranks. When Christ has the freedom to be Head of His Body, He leads His army by His Spirit which blows us where and how He willeth.....but amen there are many other factors as well which come into play and are all part of that.....He has given us a big and wide and deep training manual.
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Post by frienduff on Jul 15, 2018 10:12:58 GMT -5
One of the biggest myths about war is that armies "win" by their glorious charges in battle. Wrong. The outcome of a war is usually determined far in advance, based on the training and empowerment of soldiers, the lining up of resources, an ability to articulate the cause, and pro-active policing against insurrection in the ranks. When Christ has the freedom to be Head of His Body, He leads His army by His Spirit which blows us where and how He willeth.....but amen there are many other factors as well which come into play and are all part of that.....He has given us a big and wide and deep training manual. .....He has given us a big and wide and deep training manual, AND this wisdom , THE wisdom of GOD , IS CHRIST THE KING . ONWARD into the trenches one and all , Onward for the LORD is with HIS OWN . From all that I read in the bible , WHO determines the outcome of any war , GOD DOES , for whatever HIS reasons are . Even NEBB was made as a weapon . Even the dark one will be allowed to make war against the saints and to over come and kill many of them . GOD is in control and all that even comes against us , works together for the good of those WHO TRULY LOVE HIM . You loved sister . Now let us throw up hands and praise the LORD . I was so happy when I read one of your posts on worthy last night . WE POINT TO JESUS and not denominations . ONWARD SISTER , ONWARD in the LORD .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 15:22:11 GMT -5
When Christ has the freedom to be Head of His Body, He leads His army by His Spirit which blows us where and how He willeth.....but amen there are many other factors as well which come into play and are all part of that.....He has given us a big and wide and deep training manual. .....He has given us a big and wide and deep training manual, AND this wisdom , THE wisdom of GOD , IS CHRIST THE KING . ONWARD into the trenches one and all , Onward for the LORD is with HIS OWN . From all that I read in the bible , WHO determines the outcome of any war , GOD DOES , for whatever HIS reasons are . Even NEBB was made as a weapon . Even the dark one will be allowed to make war against the saints and to over come and kill many of them . GOD is in control and all that even comes against us , works together for the good of those WHO TRULY LOVE HIM . You loved sister . Now let us throw up hands and praise the LORD . I was so happy when I read one of your posts on worthy last night . WE POINT TO JESUS and not denominations . ONWARD SISTER , ONWARD in the LORD .
<< .....He has given us a big and wide and deep training manual, AND this wisdom , THE wisdom of GOD , IS CHRIST THE KING . >> AMEN! And AMEN that the Lord is in control.....as I have heard you say He is the one who forges the weapon and that is why it will not prosper against His saints. Bless you frienduff, I'm glad for your encouragements.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jul 15, 2018 20:00:25 GMT -5
And he said, God has laid it on his heart that there is a young person in the church today that God has been dealing with and they were running. there was more about specific details i wont go into. This is a common tactic you see in Baptist (and some other) churches. People are embarrassed/guilt bombed/peer pressured to repent whether they want to or not. These incidents almost always target confused young adults whom the church seemingly cannot convince otherwise. Of course this elder didn't see it as a gift of knowledge, because, truth be told, it very likely wasn't. You mean he just made it up?
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jul 15, 2018 20:23:37 GMT -5
How spectacular and wonderful even to be able to speak about the gifts of the spirit without someone trying to bridle you. I was once in a church and an older retired preacher for a baptist church stood up and announced to the preacher he had something, a word from God to announce. this man was well respected so the floor was given... And he said, God has laid it on his heart that there is a young person in the church today that God has been dealing with and they were running. there was more about specific details i wont go into. after service me and a dear friend went to this mans house for fellowship. I mentioned the gifts and was interrupted by this man saying the gifts are not needed. I thought, spoken like a true baptist. He does not want the gifts to even be discussed but yet that day was given a word of knowledge, which is given a knowledge in form of word that by no way of knowing it, knows it. and it was to edify so it fits the scriptural outline to a T. I find it very distasteful to quench the spirit... not to say that I am a perfect christian that never scrapes my knees or gets bruised from falling down in my walk, but i do not intend to speak negatively to how the Holy Spirit operates thru us. Am I the only one who sees a similarity to how in the OT there was some who were close to God and were sold out to Him and believed His words, but there were many more who were riding the fence and had their own ideas... and how that is the same as today. many have their own interpretation on scripture. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:29 Amen Cletus, it is wonderful when we have that freedom and the Spirit is not quenched. And no you're not alone in seeing that there are many who deny that gifts are for the church today really as a way of explaining why they don't see the Lord moving among them....when all along He is waiting for them to receive the Holy Spirit and believe that He can and will move as He wills. Or there are those who believe that spiritual gifts are only for a few and not for all. Both these viewpoints quench the Spirit in believers, because the Lord generally only moves in cooperation with our own faith and will in welcoming Him to do so......most of the time. There are times when He will over-rule someone's unbelief regardless and move sovereignly though, like the example you gave of that Baptist....the Lord is so merciful.....and He is God after all…a God who can make a donkey talk and rocks to cry out when He wants to! Sad though, that in spite of the Lord demonstrating His power the man chose his doctrine over the Lord. But these gifts are spiritual weapons which are needed in order to participate with Christ in destroying the works of the enemy and building up the church. I know I'm ‘preaching to the choir’ here with these thing, but a church that is not learning to rely on the Holy Spirit is a very weak platoon in the army of God....an enemy that is spiritual can only be overcome with weapons that are spiritual. oh by all means, preach on. I am weary of hearing the Gifts are not needed and God does not do that any more. and teachings of prophets are gone and then they ask for evidence in the NT and when its given its as if that just wasnt good enough because they dont agree. stubbornness is not a virtue or a fruit of The Spirit. I kid you not, weary.
I used to go to a home church. couches and chairs were in a circle around a large room. there was a piano, one guy played an accordion, a few people played guitars, we had other instruments like tambourines, and i played small drums. sometimes i played. we had no choir director. when God put a song on anyones heart we announced it and we all sang it. no one was in charge of the service. if someone had a word to read or speak everyone listened. we respected each other and took turns. we had elders and they were respected as such, but in a sense we were all equal. When God had something for this assembly it was way richer, more edifying, than a church service with pews. The gifts flowed on some nights. The Holy Spirit had His way and it was actually easier to do what the bible says as far as being the church, rather than going to church. Fellowship was much better too. its different when you really get involved in someones life. share joys. and also weep with them. I think how church has been institutionalized since the church began to spread out and they had all these pagans in there because the law said you had to be a certain religion, really does not allow for The Holy Spirit to really work thru us. just a speaker edifying, usually one maybe two.
I miss it.
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Post by frienduff on Jul 15, 2018 21:40:08 GMT -5
Onward in the LORD CLETUS . The LORD led us to have this site , and it might be also he brings some of us together in time to meet n person and just rejoice in the LORD and let the gifts flow and meet and look out for one another and just honor the LORD . Just praise the Lord Cletus , praise the LORD . The LORD knows those who are HIS , and we will exhort one another and do as HE BIDS .
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jul 16, 2018 3:04:15 GMT -5
Onward in the LORD CLETUS . The LORD led us to have this site , and it might be also he brings some of us together in time to meet n person and just rejoice in the LORD and let the gifts flow and meet and look out for one another and just honor the LORD . Just praise the Lord Cletus , praise the LORD . The LORD knows those who are HIS , and we will exhort one another and do as HE BIDS . I have a suspicion, one day we will meet.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 6:46:11 GMT -5
oh by all means, preach on. I am weary of hearing the Gifts are not needed and God does not do that any more. and teachings of prophets are gone and then they ask for evidence in the NT and when its given its as if that just wasnt good enough because they dont agree. stubbornness is not a virtue or a fruit of The Spirit. I kid you not, weary.
I used to go to a home church. couches and chairs were in a circle around a large room. there was a piano, one guy played an accordion, a few people played guitars, we had other instruments like tambourines, and i played small drums. sometimes i played. we had no choir director. when God put a song on anyones heart we announced it and we all sang it. no one was in charge of the service. if someone had a word to read or speak everyone listened. we respected each other and took turns. we had elders and they were respected as such, but in a sense we were all equal. When God had something for this assembly it was way richer, more edifying, than a church service with pews. The gifts flowed on some nights. The Holy Spirit had His way and it was actually easier to do what the bible says as far as being the church, rather than going to church. Fellowship was much better too. its different when you really get involved in someones life. share joys. and also weep with them. I think how church has been institutionalized since the church began to spread out and they had all these pagans in there because the law said you had to be a certain religion, really does not allow for The Holy Spirit to really work thru us. just a speaker edifying, usually one maybe two.
I miss it.
Amen Cletus...that sounds about right! Informal simplicity.....just meeting together with the Lord with He as the Head of His Body, leading and orchestrating by the Spirit. Everyone just doing/saying their part as the Lord unctions, without being conscious about who's who and who's not....each one just following/obeying the Lord. It becomes self-evident who have more spiritual authority. Prophets will prophesy and bring a word of exortation or comfort or warning, pastors will preach and minister among the flock, teachers will teach a thing from the word, watchmen bring their discernment, newly saved are full of praises and zeal to inspire and encourage the rest, minstrels lead in songs and hymns, others will bring a word or revelation, or song, or passage of scripture, word of knowledge, word of wisdom and healers will heal and deliver. Each one participating in turn, as led and unctioned by the Lord as He sees fit. Have a loose structure and some organization of when you do what, but be willing to let the Lord take over.....and pray that He does! I believe that is somewhat of what Jesus has in mind....our humble, simple, sandal-wearing wonderful Saviour who just went around doing good as led by the Father.
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Post by John on Jul 18, 2018 8:26:56 GMT -5
How spectacular and wonderful even to be able to speak about the gifts of the spirit without someone trying to bridle you. I was once in a church and an older retired preacher for a baptist church stood up and announced to the preacher he had something, a word from God to announce. this man was well respected so the floor was given... And he said, God has laid it on his heart that there is a young person in the church today that God has been dealing with and they were running. there was more about specific details i wont go into. after service me and a dear friend went to this mans house for fellowship. I mentioned the gifts and was interrupted by this man saying the gifts are not needed. I thought, spoken like a true baptist. He does not want the gifts to even be discussed but yet that day was given a word of knowledge, which is given a knowledge in form of word that by no way of knowing it, knows it. and it was to edify so it fits the scriptural outline to a T. I find it very distasteful to quench the spirit... not to say that I am a perfect christian that never scrapes my knees or gets bruised from falling down in my walk, but i do not intend to speak negatively to how the Holy Spirit operates thru us. Am I the only one who sees a similarity to how in the OT there was some who were close to God and were sold out to Him and believed His words, but there were many more who were riding the fence and had their own ideas... and how that is the same as today. many have their own interpretation on scripture. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:29 You are not alone at all in feeling that way. I agree with you.
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