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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 8:19:19 GMT -5
I am not a Calvinist, Just wanted to ask what your beliefs were on this? Thank you.
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Post by John on Jan 16, 2022 19:27:17 GMT -5
I will answer for me, but others may have a different take. I believe the blood Jesus shed is able to save everyone, but not all will accept this atonement. Many will reject the Lord, and others may believe but will not serve Him. The atonement is not insufficient to save everyone, but it is limited in the sense that God does not apply the blood covering to everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2022 22:15:45 GMT -5
My understanding is he is the propitiation our sins, not only ours but the whole world. 1st John. I know many are not going to heaven but that is their choice, not God's. I believe God choose us to be comforted into His image and Yes also no one can come to the God unless God draws us to Him, but we can pray for God to work.
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Post by John on Jan 17, 2022 1:25:42 GMT -5
My understanding is he is the propitiation our sins, not only ours but the whole world. 1st John. I know many are not going to heaven but that is their choice, not God's. I believe God choose us to be comforted into His image and Yes also no one can come to the God unless God draws us to Him, but we can pray for God to work. Even if God knew who would be saved and who would be lost before He created them, they are still making the choice.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2022 4:33:48 GMT -5
I think so too.
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Post by watchful on Jan 17, 2022 6:42:49 GMT -5
My understanding is he is the propitiation our sins, not only ours but the whole world. 1st John. I know many are not going to heaven but that is their choice, not God's. I believe God choose us to be comforted into His image and Yes also no one can come to the God unless God draws us to Him, but we can pray for God to work. That verse used to confuse me. Now I understand that it is speaking of the Jews/Israel as opposed to the nations of the world (Gentiles). Jesus was a propitiation for both Jew and Gentile...those who would believe on Him from both Israel and the world. It's not saying He was a propitiation for believers as well as unbelievers. (It's helpful sometimes to remember that Jesus came to the Jews first and that the gospel and word of God is for the Jew first, then the Gentile.)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2022 7:34:22 GMT -5
I take the definition for "our" means everyone including unbelievers. Because I believe it's right to tell others "Jesus died for your sins" because the Bible says He died for our sins.
I don't understand the Calvinists think Jesus didn't die for a person because how can you tell anyone the gospel? I have listened to these very words from many calvinist preachers, they almost never say "Jesus died for your sins" but "Jesus died for his people's sins" and "Jesus died for us" but if we are to evangelize the lost, how can we tell anyone rightly, in good faith, "Jesus died for your sins, please believe it.". The good news is that Jesus died for 'your sins' 'my sins' 'our sins' and we have to tell that to all people, knowing it's true, that Jesus did in fact die for their sins. This is why i don't believe in 'limited atonement' and I'm not a Calvinist'. I take it that Jesus is the sacrifice that satisfy God's Wrath" (propitiation) and "if they believe" (their choice) they would be saved. I don't mean to say "salvation" is automatic. I think many are doomed to hell actually (Matthew 7:21-23).
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Post by watchful on Jan 17, 2022 8:31:26 GMT -5
I take the definition for "our" means everyone including unbelievers. Because I believe it's right to tell others "Jesus died for your sins" because the Bible says He died for our sins. I don't understand the Calvinists think Jesus didn't die for a person because how can you tell anyone the gospel? I have listened to these very words from many calvinist preachers, they almost never say "Jesus died for your sins" but "Jesus died for his people's sins" and "Jesus died for us" but if we are to evangelize the lost, how can we tell anyone rightly, in good faith, "Jesus died for your sins, please believe it.". The good news is that Jesus died for 'your sins' 'my sins' 'our sins' and we have to tell that to all people, knowing it's true, that Jesus did in fact die for their sins. This is why i don't believe in 'limited atonement' and I'm not a Calvinist'. I take it that Jesus is the sacrifice that satisfy God's Wrath" (propitiation) and "if they believe" (their choice) they would be saved. I don't mean to say "salvation" is automatic. I think many are doomed to hell actually (Matthew 7:21-23). Sounds like Calvinists are overthinking things. Splicing and dicing into too many little pieces until we lose sight of the picture so to speak. Amen, Jesus died for the sins of the whole world....for whosoever would believe. Wooing the lost to Christ, not trying to put up unnecessary divisions.....the lost don't need a whole detailed theology lesson in any case, just the simple gospel. "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God".....God knows ahead of time who will be willing and who will not. But we don't, it's not our place to know generally, so the church is just to sow the seed of the gospel everywhere like a farmer scattering seed. God wants the gospel witnessed to every creature anyhow, whether they will come to Him or not.
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Post by frienduff on Jan 17, 2022 8:59:43 GMT -5
I take the definition for "our" means everyone including unbelievers. Because I believe it's right to tell others "Jesus died for your sins" because the Bible says He died for our sins. I don't understand the Calvinists think Jesus didn't die for a person because how can you tell anyone the gospel? I have listened to these very words from many calvinist preachers, they almost never say "Jesus died for your sins" but "Jesus died for his people's sins" and "Jesus died for us" but if we are to evangelize the lost, how can we tell anyone rightly, in good faith, "Jesus died for your sins, please believe it.". The good news is that Jesus died for 'your sins' 'my sins' 'our sins' and we have to tell that to all people, knowing it's true, that Jesus did in fact die for their sins. This is why i don't believe in 'limited atonement' and I'm not a Calvinist'. I take it that Jesus is the sacrifice that satisfy God's Wrath" (propitiation) and "if they believe" (their choice) they would be saved. I don't mean to say "salvation" is automatic. I think many are doomed to hell actually (Matthew 7:21-23). Sounds like Calvinists are overthinking things. Splicing and dicing into too many little pieces until we lose sight of the picture so to speak. Amen, Jesus died for the sins of the whole world....for whosoever would believe. Wooing the lost to Christ, not trying to put up unnecessary divisions.....the lost don't need a whole detailed theology lesson in any case, just the simple gospel. "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God".....God knows ahead of time who will be willing and who will not. But we don't, it's not our place to know generally, so the church is just to sow the seed of the gospel everywhere like a farmer scattering seed. God wants the gospel witnessed to every creature anyhow, whether they will come to Him or not. Yes indeed dear sister , let us keep it simple . Go ye into all nations and preach the gospel whoever believes will be saved and whoever does not will be damned . In fact i am gonna leave us with one of the last things said in revelations . LET WHO SO EVER WILL come and drink ......... offer the gospel to all . Whoever rejects that is on them , whoever receives it shall be saved . And let us continue in the faith unto the end . Trusting in Christ alone for salvation and loving all He did teach and say .
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