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Post by Giller on Jan 24, 2022 9:43:12 GMT -5
magpass, instead of seeking so hard to promote the once saved always saved doctrine, why don't you encourage people to continue in grace, faith, sanctification, and in the Lord ?
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Post by watchful on Jan 26, 2022 10:08:47 GMT -5
God knows what each soul needs. Maybe it would be fair to say that some need to learn His fear before they learn mercy, while others may need to learn and receive His mercy before they can bear to know His fear...? He is more merciful than many know. I think we just should not neglect one or the other. Some desperately need to be reminded of His mercy just as much as others need reminding of His fear.
Nothing in all the universe can snatch us out of God's hand, but neither will He violate our will most of the time. If someone wilfully chooses their sin over God they are putting their soul in danger. As an example, yet another pastor is in the news sadly....a mega church in Chatanooga Tennessee. If the accounts are true it seems he chose to continue in adultery in spite of his wife leaving him and many in the church trying to talk sense to him over a long period of time. I'm not his judge and only God knows what mitigating circumstances there might be in his life, if any. The Lord might mercifully let this fellow finally learn his lesson the hard way, but if he never learns at all and never repents, and dies in that state, it doesn't seem to bode well for a welcome into heaven.
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Post by John on Feb 2, 2022 8:35:48 GMT -5
It seem people want to live in fear! "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in mt absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12
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Post by John on Feb 2, 2022 9:13:08 GMT -5
These are 2 verses, some pastors use to say "you can lose your salvation". They are Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26. Hebrews 6:4-6 The Book of Hebrews was written to the Jews, who had been living under the Old Covenant, the law and the sacrificial system. There were some Jews who became born again, but there were many who were either on the fence with faith in Jesus Christ. The writer of Hebrews was warning those who had not accepted Christ, to not to drift away and ignore such a great salvation (Hebrews 2:1-3). It's probably a good idea to first read the first 5 chapters of the Book of Hebrews. In chapter 5, you will see that here were those who were slow to learn about the salvation. Those people were not acquainted with the teaching about imputed righteousness and were still living on milk, not solid food. They had never changed their mind about faith in Jesus Christ, imputed righteousness and the complete forgiveness of sins. In Hebrews 6:4, notice words tasted, shared, enlightened. Tasting is not swallowing or drinking. If you like something you taste, you then swallow it. You might be enlightened by something, but not accept it. That is why it is impossible for them to return to repentance because they never repented and were born again. Have you ever noticed that you can't go back to where you have never been? If you have never been to Boston, can you go back to Boston? These unbelieving Hebrews were crucifying the grace of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. The author of Hebrews then says "Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation" (Hebrews 6:9). Hebrews 10:26 "If we deliberately keep on sinning after receiving the knowledge of truth, no sacrifice for sin is left". The sinning here refers to unbelief, after receiving the knowledge of truth. They rejected the truth about Jesus. Again, they heard, they shared, they were enlightened and they tasted. But they did not swallow or drink the knowledge of truth. These unbelieving Hebrews had insulted the Spirit of Grace. There was no sacrifice for them left and they were in danger of the fire of hell. The passage in Hebrews 10 does not say that the sinning is unbelief. It is just sin. It is not speaking of those who were never saved, which is obvious once you reach verse 30.
"For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, the Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions." Hebrews 10:30-32.
God is speaking of judging His people, not those never saved, and He encourages them to return to serving God in truth like they did in the past. Also, we see the word fearful. Fear of God is our wisdom.
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Post by watchful on Feb 2, 2022 11:26:25 GMT -5
These are 2 verses, some pastors use to say "you can lose your salvation". They are Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26. Hebrews 6:4-6 The Book of Hebrews was written to the Jews, who had been living under the Old Covenant, the law and the sacrificial system. There were some Jews who became born again, but there were many who were either on the fence with faith in Jesus Christ. The writer of Hebrews was warning those who had not accepted Christ, to not to drift away and ignore such a great salvation (Hebrews 2:1-3). It's probably a good idea to first read the first 5 chapters of the Book of Hebrews. In chapter 5, you will see that here were those who were slow to learn about the salvation. Those people were not acquainted with the teaching about imputed righteousness and were still living on milk, not solid food. They had never changed their mind about faith in Jesus Christ, imputed righteousness and the complete forgiveness of sins. In Hebrews 6:4, notice words tasted, shared, enlightened. Tasting is not swallowing or drinking. If you like something you taste, you then swallow it. You might be enlightened by something, but not accept it. That is why it is impossible for them to return to repentance because they never repented and were born again. Have you ever noticed that you can't go back to where you have never been? If you have never been to Boston, can you go back to Boston? These unbelieving Hebrews were crucifying the grace of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. The author of Hebrews then says "Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation" (Hebrews 6:9). Hebrews 10:26 "If we deliberately keep on sinning after receiving the knowledge of truth, no sacrifice for sin is left". The sinning here refers to unbelief, after receiving the knowledge of truth. They rejected the truth about Jesus. Again, they heard, they shared, they were enlightened and they tasted. But they did not swallow or drink the knowledge of truth. These unbelieving Hebrews had insulted the Spirit of Grace. There was no sacrifice for them left and they were in danger of the fire of hell. The passage in Hebrews 10 does not say that the sinning is unbelief. It is just sin. It is not speaking of those who were never saved, which is obvious once you reach verse 30.
"For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, the Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions." Hebrews 10:30-32.
God is speaking of judging His people, not those never saved, and He encourages them to return to serving God in truth like they did in the past. Also, we see the word fearful. Fear of God is our wisdom.
Amen, agree with you. And if it is after they have received the knowledge of the truth, so they aren't in unbelief. I don't know if this is quite on the mark, but it seems the Lord looks a little differently upon continuing in willful sins than inadvertent sins or faults. There are bondages too, that might be a another category...think that requires God's intervention and deliverance ultimately. Either way we need to do all we can on our end to fight the good fight of faith and continue seeking righteousness. Ask, seek, knock....and the door WILL be opened. Confess our sins and the Lord WILL be faithful and just to forgive and cleanse us. Sometimes we need to persevere in the battle, things don't always happen immediately....suddenly yes, a stronghold can be broken, but not always right away.
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Post by John on Feb 2, 2022 11:45:10 GMT -5
The passage in Hebrews 10 does not say that the sinning is unbelief. It is just sin. It is not speaking of those who were never saved, which is obvious once you reach verse 30.
"For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, the Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions." Hebrews 10:30-32.
God is speaking of judging His people, not those never saved, and He encourages them to return to serving God in truth like they did in the past. Also, we see the word fearful. Fear of God is our wisdom.
Amen, agree with you. And if it is after they have received the knowledge of the truth, so they aren't in unbelief. I don't know if this is quite on the mark, but it seems the Lord looks a little differently upon continuing in willful sins than inadvertent sins or faults. There are bondages too, that might be a another category...think that requires God's intervention and deliverance ultimately. Either way we need to do all we can on our end to fight the good fight of faith and continue seeking righteousness. Ask, seek, knock....and the door WILL be opened. Confess our sins and the Lord WILL be faithful and just to forgive and cleanse us. Sometimes we need to persevere in the battle, things don't always happen immediately....suddenly yes, a stronghold can be broken, but not always right away. There is a huge difference in someone missing God's standard of holiness by mistake and just choosing to live in a lifestyle of willful sin. Even in the Old Testament, God made a distinction between sins done in error and those done presumptuously.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 2, 2022 23:10:30 GMT -5
magpass, instead of seeking so hard to promote the once saved always saved doctrine, why don't you encourage people to continue in grace, faith, sanctification, and in the Lord ? Exactly my friend . Let us do as the early church did . Just that . Exhort to continue in the grace of the Lord .
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