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Post by tlsitd on Jul 16, 2018 18:42:36 GMT -5
What is "positive"? Is it something that makes us feel good, or is it something that actually is good and does good?
I think for most people, whether they know it or really think about it or not, when they use the term 'positive' they mean what makes them or other people feel good, not what actually is good or does good.
There are plenty of bad things that make people feel good, which may be considered positive when they are actually negative.
False teachings, and diluting or avoiding preaching Scriptural truth, is a negative (something that does harm and which does not please God or accomplish His ends), which is perceived as a positive:
Truth that convicts does not feel good if you are doing wrong---and it's not supposed to. It's supposed to be unpleasant, so that it affects a positive response: Repentance; which leads to a right relationship with God and the benefits of the same.
Obedience also does not feel good---at least not as good as having your own way and having fun, if you're a carnally minded individual---but the results of it are positive: God's renewing of your mind, increasing experience of His grace, deeper fellowship with Him, answered prayers, and eternal rewards---besides keeping your eternal life!
People feel better when truth and obedience are not preached or taught, because they can do what they want to do without feeling guilty (a negative feeling), and can believe whatever makes them feel good. But the negative consequences of not hearing the truth, and of not obeying, will still affect them. That's not positive; it's deceitfully negative.
Likewise, flattery (telling people what they want to hear because it makes one feel good to be appreciated and praised by the person one flatters) is another thing that is perceived as a positive but is actually a negative. Telling people how great they are does not help them to have a right relationship with God or to be more like Him in the way that He desires. And telling them that they are good as they are when God says they aren't is not positive. It's very negative. Your positive words aren't going to change the horrible reality of what is waiting for them on the other side.
"Positive", as far as Christians are concerned, is anything that pleases God and achieves His ends, and---as it agrees with those two things---what is in the best interest of others or oneself.
And "negative" is anything that is not and does not.
So the next time you hear someone using those words to describe a person or a thing, consider them in the light of God's word. Because (as many examples in the Scriptures show) what is considered 'positive' is often negative, and what is perceived as negative is often positive.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. (Proverbs 27:6)
For even if I made you grieve with my letter, I do not regret it---though I did regret it, for I see that that letter grieved you, though only for a while. As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting...
...For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what punishment! (2 Corinthians 7:8-11)
Have I then become your enemy for telling you the truth?
They make much of you, but for no good purpose. They want to shut you out, that you may make much of them. It is always good to be made much of for a good purpose... (Galatians 4:16-18)
...The serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die..."
So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate... (Genesis 3:4,6)
For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error.
They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. (2 Peter 2:18-20)
...As servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: by great endurance, in afflictions, hardships, calamities, beatings, imprisonments, riots, labors, sleepless nights, hunger...through honor and dishonor, through slander and praise...as dying, and behold, we live; as punished, and yet not killed; as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, yet possessing everything. (2 Corinthians 6:4,5,8-10)
"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
"Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied.
"Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.
"Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets.
"But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation.
"Woe to you who are full now, for you shall be hungry.
"Woe to you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep.
"Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets." (Luke 6:20-26)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 17:49:32 GMT -5
Agree with the OP, as long as we remember a right balance with these things:
Phl 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Col 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 17, 2018 20:41:11 GMT -5
Agree with the OP, as long as we remember a right balance with these things: Phl 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Col 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. Of course; God always maintains a right balance. He never flatters anyone, but He does encourage according to need and praise according to desert, according to what is appropriate for time and circumstance. He doesn't quench a faintly burning wick or break a bruised reed, but neither does He speak pleasant words according to the desires of people when reproof is what is necessary. (See the Lord's messages to the seven churches in the Revelation for example.) Faith and the word of God direct us to do and say what God would have us to do and say to a particular person (or people) in a particular circumstance, and only by those two things can we do what is right and appropriate. Jeremiah, for example, could be considered a very negative prophet (who reads Jeremiah for encouragement?), but his words were appropriate for the majority in the time that he was prophesying---by which time God Himself didn't have much of anything good (or 'positive') to say to His rebellious people--- because they were evil and rebellious. It would not have been appropriate or pleasing to God (or beneficial to the people) for Jeremiah to "lighten up" his harsh and heavy words because the people wanted to hear something else. His words may have not been pleasant (as the words of Jesus to five of the seven churches in the Revelation also were not), but they had a positive purpose, and they were entirely appropriate for the need (not the desire) of the people. For they are a rebellious people, lying children, children unwilling to hear the instruction of the LORD; who say to the seers, "Do not see," and to the prophets, "Do not prophesy to us what is right; speak to us smooth things, prophesy illusions, leave the way, turn aside from the path, let us hear no more about the Holy One of Israel." (Isaiah 30:9-11)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 6:17:09 GMT -5
That is wrong sister, the Lord did lighten up Jeremiah's words, and that is the exact meaning of not quenching a smoldering wick or breaking a bruised reed. He is the one who bruised and diminished them with His rebuke.....but NEVER taking away hope and promise and an open to the way back to Him. We need a new pair of eyes if we can't see the hope and promise in those books.
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 18, 2018 8:24:28 GMT -5
That is wrong sister, the Lord did lighten up Jeremiah's words, and that is the exact meaning of not quenching a smoldering wick or breaking a bruised reed. He is the one who bruised and diminished them with His rebuke.....but NEVER taking away hope and promise and an open to the way back to Him. We need a new pair of eyes if we can't see the hope and promise in those books. Not quenching a smoldering wick or breaking a bruised reed has to do with God not quenching the hope of those who are faithful but weary, and encouraging those who are faithful but discouraged or afflicted---not with God never taking away hope or His promises from those who despise Him or never forsaking those who forsake Him. (See Hebrews 6:4-8; John 15:6; Revelation 2:5.) Why do you say, O Jacob, and speak, O Israel, "My way is hidden from the LORD, and my right is disregarded by my God"? Have you not known? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; His understanding is unsearchable. He gives power to the faint, and to him who has no might He increases strength. Even youths shall faint and be weary, and young men shall fall exhausted; but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength... (Isaiah 40:27-31) We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted, but not forsaken... (2 Corinthians 4:8,9) The Lord GOD has given me the tongue of those who are taught, that I may know how to sustain with a word him who is weary. (Isaiah 50:4) Encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all. (1 Thessalonians 5:14) The whole point of Jeremiah's prophesying was to call the apostate people of Israel back to the LORD, to avoid His judgment---to declare to the people their sins and tell them to return to God because He was getting ready to judge them for their rebellion against Him, so that they might repent, and reap the blessings of repentance and faithfulness. That is a positive thing. But anyone who can read the book of Jeremiah and come away thinking that the primary purpose of it is encouragement rather than warning has really missed the point of that book; just as anyone who can read the Lord's messages to the five apostate churches in Asia and come away thinking that the primary purpose of those messages is encouragement rather than warning has really missed the point of those messages.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 18, 2018 9:32:00 GMT -5
I must admit to being slightly confused by this. If our minds and emotions are brought to submission under Jesus, then we should delight in His ways. We are told to taste and see that the Lord is good. He said open your mouth and He will feed you good things. We are told that every good and perfect gift comes from Him. When we bring ourselves into agreement with the heart of God, we share His definition of good.
So as I see it, the problem is not that we want a positive experience, but that we have a perverted definition of positive. If we think something outside of God's will is positive, that's the problem.
Please think on what I've said. I'm not trying to attack anyone. This is just how I see things.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 18, 2018 9:54:09 GMT -5
I must admit to being slightly confused by this. If our minds and emotions are brought to submission under Jesus, then we should delight in His ways. We are told to taste and see that the Lord is good. He said open your mouth and He will feed you good things. We are told that every good and perfect gift comes from Him. When we bring ourselves into agreement with the heart of God, we share His definition of good. So as I see it, the problem is not that we want a positive experience, but that we have a perverted definition of positive. If we think something outside of God's will is positive, that's the problem.Please think on what I've said. I'm not trying to attack anyone. This is just how I see things. Exactly!
The flesh is full of deceit, and in order for it to have what it wishes it will get help from deceitful and evil spirits...
that is when the person is tested, if the person loves the truth more than the lie they will choose to obey the Spirit of God, the Truth.
"For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish." - Galatians 5:17
"you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul." - Deuteronomy 13:3
Then, if anyone is being tempted and still is unable to overcome it by the truth of His Words, then ask Him more grace, then the love of God will be poured in your hearts more abundantly and you will be able to endure it.
"Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?
But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
“God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.”" - James 4:5-6
"Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him." - James 1:12
"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." - Romans 5:5
God bless you in Jesus' name!
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 18, 2018 11:01:27 GMT -5
I must admit to being slightly confused by this. If our minds and emotions are brought to submission under Jesus, then we should delight in His ways. We are told to taste and see that the Lord is good. He said open your mouth and He will feed you good things. We are told that every good and perfect gift comes from Him. When we bring ourselves into agreement with the heart of God, we share His definition of good. So as I see it, the problem is not that we want a positive experience, but that we have a perverted definition of positive. If we think something outside of God's will is positive, that's the problem. Please think on what I've said. I'm not trying to attack anyone. This is just how I see things. Yes, it's a matter of putting sweet for bitter and bitter for sweet. When we don't have God's perspective, and our hearts aren't as they should be toward Him, we don't take pleasure in the things that God takes pleasure in, and don't see as good what He says is good, because our minds are on self-gratification and the desires of the sinful nature, not on pleasing the Lord and the desires of His Spirit. There is joy in having one's mind set on doing what pleases God, and in doing His will (which is the delight of Jesus Himself, and should be ours too)---even when that will is unpleasant for us---but not if we want to do something other than that because our hearts are impure. If that is the case with us, His words will seem bitter to us, and we will see what is good and meant for our good as something bad---because it is a threat to our own pleasure and comfort or our reputation among men or our goods, and to our own desires contrary to God's will for us; and we will want to get away from it, and not want to hear it. We will perceive the positive as a negative, because we are not Christ-minded and our hearts are not like His as they should be. When we perceive what God commands or desires us to do as something negative to be avoided, it is always we who need to change, and we should ask God to change our perspective and attitude. From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.
And Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord! This shall never happen to You."
But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a hindrance to Me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."
Then Jesus told His disciples, "If anyone would come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 16:21-25) (These words from our Lord may seem negative, but they are positive. Peter's words to Jesus may seem positive, but they were negative. We should carefully consider the counsel we give to our brothers and sisters in Christ, to make sure that it is of God and truly positive and not of Satan and deceitfully negative.)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 8:07:55 GMT -5
I just want to say in general that Jesus never said we would not need to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees in the last days. All our attention is on the greasy grace gospel that leads to licentiousness.........but we also need to take heed to ourselves that we do not bring the other leaven as a push-back against it. Both leavens kill, just in different ways. And different people are susceptible to different leavens, some are more susceptible to the greasy grace side and some to the more Phariseeical side. So I want to emphasize again....if Jesus said to beware of both leavens, then we do need to beware of both until the end, not just the one. Examine ourselves. May the Lord bless and help us all to avoid both leavens.
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Post by frienduff on Jul 19, 2018 8:43:16 GMT -5
I must admit to being slightly confused by this. If our minds and emotions are brought to submission under Jesus, then we should delight in His ways. We are told to taste and see that the Lord is good. He said open your mouth and He will feed you good things. We are told that every good and perfect gift comes from Him. When we bring ourselves into agreement with the heart of God, we share His definition of good. So as I see it, the problem is not that we want a positive experience, but that we have a perverted definition of positive. If we think something outside of God's will is positive, that's the problem. Please think on what I've said. I'm not trying to attack anyone. This is just how I see things. ED Zachary sister . I can read any part of the bible and it only EDIFIES my soul . From every dire warning to every promise , its as honey to the taste to feast on the pure exhortations of the bible . IF something in that bible seems as doom and gloom to our souls , then rest assured we are already seeing or desiring a false positive . The dire warnings are meat to our soul , because THEY along with THE SPIRIT , remind US of the severity of GOD . All the promises of good , remind us and encourage us as well. Their is nothing in the bible that should depress us . GOD always warned and for GOOD REASON . the prophets warned and for GOOD reason , Christ warned rebuked , and for GOOD reason . Most folks have forgotten we still dwell in contrary bodies , And severity is needed to remind us and sharpen us to REMAIN faithful , it builds us up as well as the promises do . the number one thing that would have greatly edified the churches , IS the reminder of what happened to the bad examples . And even when we read that , WE SEE , DID GOD NOT WARN them FIRST , DID HE NOT SAY , WHY WILL YOU DIE , REPENT . YES HE DID. God never sent judgment , WITHOUT a warning first . REPENT OR ELSE . which shows the mercy of GOD . IT ALSO shows that the chatisements of the LORD are part of his mercy as well. Instead of just casting the lukewarm church OUT , GOD SAID I counsel you to buy of me GOLD TRIED IN THE FIRE that you may be RICH , be zealous and repent . FOR ALL whom HE LOVES he chastens and corrects . IF folks see parts of the bible as DOOM N GLOOM , then rest assured , THEY TAKING the good things OUT OF TEXT TOO . example . THEY preach a false goodness of GOD . FOR IT SAYS and is all about the ACCEPTANCE of sins , NOT REPENTANCE OF SAID SINS . MAJOR LIE and MAJOR DIFFERENCE do these types teach . IF we don't behold the severity of GOD , rest assured they are under a false version OF the GOODNESS of GOD , if folks note ONLY the severity of GOD but not the goodness REST assured they too behold a false version . FOR their version condemns for it gives no solution to those in darkness , it only condemns . and rest assured these folks too are prideful FOR in their heart they do think , DONT COME NIGH ME , I AM HOLIER than THOU . WE Got to LEARN CHRIST and fast . FOLLOW HIM and feast daily on the bible .
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 19, 2018 8:45:22 GMT -5
I just want to say in general that Jesus never said we would not need to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees in the last days. All our attention is on the greasy grace gospel that leads to licentiousness.........but we also need to take heed to ourselves that we do not bring the other leaven as a push-back against it. Both leavens kill, just in different ways. And different people are susceptible to different leavens, some are more susceptible to the greasy grace side and some to the more Phariseeical side. So I want to emphasize again....if Jesus said to beware of both leavens, then we do need to beware of both until the end, not just the one. Examine ourselves. May the Lord bless and help us all to avoid both leavens. Unfortunately, both kinds are flourishing in Christianity in this last hour. They're just two different forms of apostasy, and two different kinds of leaven, and I am equally opposed to both.
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Post by frienduff on Jul 19, 2018 8:52:45 GMT -5
I just want to say in general that Jesus never said we would not need to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees in the last days. All our attention is on the greasy grace gospel that leads to licentiousness.........but we also need to take heed to ourselves that we do not bring the other leaven as a push-back against it. Both leavens kill, just in different ways. And different people are susceptible to different leavens, some are more susceptible to the greasy grace side and some to the more Phariseeical side. So I want to emphasize again....if Jesus said to beware of both leavens, then we do need to beware of both until the end, not just the one. Examine ourselves. May the Lord bless and help us all to avoid both leavens. IF one is warning gravely and their desire is souls to be saved , THIS ONE IS CORRECT . Their are some , however that will warn , YET GOT no desire for anyone to be saved . YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS TOO. Does someone who truly desires souls to be saved , SING SONGS with joy , about souls going to hell. NOPE and westborough DID THAT . it showed it . them ladies were singing , SINGING about souls going to hell on the Train to HELL. I nearly fell backwards when I seen it . THEY were singing it , like one would amazing grace . I heard another man saying HE was happy gays were going to hell . HAPPY as in like a happy meal . the last time I checked, paul said this , EVEN WEEPING that they are the enemies of Christ . NOW rest assured paul rebuked like a champ against sin and error . As we should . BUT HE did say , EVEN WEEPING that they are the enemies of Christ . SO our desire should never be any kind of rejoicing about anyone going to hell. WE SHOULD warn out that their IS A HELL and that all who reject CHRIST will be their one day . WE should warn out that if we deny HIM , HIS SAYINGS , HE WILL DENY US . But our desire should be that if folks are in error , REPENTANCE mode . WE warn and do so by the SPIRIT in hopes they REPENT . False prophets seemed to be the one thing that angered GOD MOST , well that and THAT PEOPLE who claim his name SIT UNDER THEM . So the gravity must not decrease, nor should the reminders of HIS PROMISE . NOW LIFT THOSE HANDS UP AND PRAISE THE LORD sister . YOU leap up and dance like david did .
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 19, 2018 10:03:57 GMT -5
I just want to say in general that Jesus never said we would not need to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees in the last days. All our attention is on the greasy grace gospel that leads to licentiousness.........but we also need to take heed to ourselves that we do not bring the other leaven as a push-back against it. Both leavens kill, just in different ways. And different people are susceptible to different leavens, some are more susceptible to the greasy grace side and some to the more Phariseeical side. So I want to emphasize again....if Jesus said to beware of both leavens, then we do need to beware of both until the end, not just the one. Examine ourselves. May the Lord bless and help us all to avoid both leavens. IF one is warning gravely and their desire is souls to be saved , THIS ONE IS CORRECT . Their are some , however that will warn , YET GOT no desire for anyone to be saved . YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS TOO. Does someone who truly desires souls to be saved , SING SONGS with joy , about souls going to hell. NOPE and westborough DID THAT . it showed it . them ladies were singing , SINGING about souls going to hell on the Train to HELL. I nearly fell backwards when I seen it . THEY were singing it , like one would amazing grace . I heard another man saying HE was happy gays were going to hell . HAPPY as in like a happy meal . the last time I checked, paul said this , EVEN WEEPING that they are the enemies of Christ . NOW rest assured paul rebuked like a champ against sin and error . As we should . BUT HE did say , EVEN WEEPING that they are the enemies of Christ . SO our desire should never be any kind of rejoicing about anyone going to hell. WE SHOULD warn out that their IS A HELL and that all who reject CHRIST will be their one day . WE should warn out that if we deny HIM , HIS SAYINGS , HE WILL DENY US . But our desire should be that if folks are in error , REPENTANCE mode . WE warn and do so by the SPIRIT in hopes they REPENT . False prophets seemed to be the one thing that angered GOD MOST , well that and THAT PEOPLE who claim his name SIT UNDER THEM . So the gravity must not decrease, nor should the reminders of HIS PROMISE . NOW LIFT THOSE HANDS UP AND PRAISE THE LORD sister . YOU leap up and dance like david did .
Singing and rejoicing about people going to hell. That's really sick. I have a hard time believing that someone who would do that really knew the Lord. (They might, and just be very ignorant or deceived (or even demonized)). That's like the people who storm "gay" pride rallies with megaphones and placards like they're going to battle against them, or hurl insults at women going into abortion clinics. Do they really think the Holy Spirit is leading them to do that? I can't picture Jesus or any of the apostles doing that. That sort of approach just makes people angry and Christians (and Jesus Christ) look bad. We're supposed to be trying to save souls out of love. Yes, we stand against and cry out against evil, but there's a right way and a wrong way to do that, and we love the people who are doing the evil. Otherwise, we're not thinking and acting according to the will and desires of God. While opposing evil, we must be grounded in love and acting according to the knowledge of God's will; and if it's not out of love and by faith that we are reproving, we'd do better to keep silent. (Chick tracts have that kind of a spirit. Can anyone imagine the Holy Spirit inspiring Jack Chick to create those? Is that of Him? Can you imagine Jesus Christ sitting at an illustrator's desk designing tracts like those, or nodding His approval over Mr. Chick's shoulder as he created them? Can you imagine the apostle Paul looking through them and approving of them or praising them? Discernment, people. Discernment.) I have a homosexual brother who is getting "married" soon. (I'm not attending the wedding.) I wouldn't show up at his wedding with a megaphone shouting, "You're both going to hell!" and waving a placard with Jude 7 on it. My brother already knows the Bible's position on homosexuality and that I hold the same view of it that God does. I genuinely love him, and his partner, although I don't associate with them, and that situation breaks my heart. I want them both to be saved. I can't imagine anyone desiring them---or any other sinner---to go to hell, or rejoicing at the prospect. That's not the attitude of the Holy Spirit. (Jonah had that kind of attitude, and God had to set him straight.)
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 20, 2018 9:03:12 GMT -5
(Zac Poonen sermon clip. 2:21 min)
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