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Post by tlsitd on Jul 21, 2018 13:48:11 GMT -5
I waited for time to watch the video before I commented here. Whether we approach this from the Greek or English, we reach the same conclusion, namely that Christian fellowship has morphed into a meaningless term. Fellowship is not unique in this, though. It's the nature of language for terms to loosen and broaden their definitions over time. Call it linguistic entropy. The English word fellow began as a term for a financial investor. It came from a compound that essentially meant "to put down money." So if you match the origin of fellow with the origin of the Christian church, you definitely see a correlation. Over time, fellow was loosened to mean a peer, then loosened more to mean a companion. Today, fellowship means little more than hanging out. If we actually care about being thoughtful with our language, we will define fellowship at least in line with Mark Kielar. At the very least, it should describe a meeting of peers to discuss or participate in their common bond. For Christians, this means spiritual peers in a relationship to share things of Christ. Any definition weaker than this is a pointless definition. I myself would define Christian fellowship as a lifestyle among Christians to financially, socially, emotionally, and materially invest in each other. We don't necessary need to build a private compound, but we ought to put our money where our mouth is, and not just 10% written off to a church. I feel like this is what Acts tried to convey. personally i wont give 10 percent of my money to a church. I do not see how that benefits building the kingdom. Churches, even small ones have big bills. big expensive ideas. the best pastors i know have a paying job outside of the church. Paul made tents. Now if a pastor comes up short and has a need... or anyone in the church... then we should be charitable. I have heard countless sermons on Malachi chapter 3. will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me... but ye say where in have we robbed thee? ...In tithers and offerings.... skip a verse and it says bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse. now here is where the sermon robs God. they say this church is the storehouse... but it aint. a storehouse is a place to store victuals... food clothes and needs for the poor to be given. Jesus said to feed His sheep and give to THE POOR. feeding the sheep is not just preaching the word. church leaders say we are not set up to do a food pantry. yeah, you/we aint, but God is. I have never seen the hand of God work as i have in a ministry such as a storehouse, where i used to work for years and held many different jobs. you could pray for a need to be met in the morning before the sun was up good, before both hands of the clock stood straight up that need walked right thru the door. without fail.
Are we to be fed so well with scripture and sermon but leave off feeding the sheep? what we have done unto the least of these, my brethren ye have done it unto Me.
I can tell you when i was homeless no one ever asked me if i was hungry or thirsty or cold. one time a lady did stop and give me a drink on a very hot day, i was close to passing out or having a heat stroke. the drink was cold. never saw that lady before. small town. I do strongly believe many have entertained angels unaware, if you catch my drift. God does care about the things as a church we are leaving off to do.
That's very sad. Paul had the same problem with church in Corinth (2 Corinthians chapters 8 & 9). You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted in your own affections. (2 Corinthians 6:12) But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. (James 1:22) What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (James 2:14-17) It's ridiculous for people to use that Scripture from Malachi to support giving money to a church. Tithing was an OT commandment for the people of Israel under the law of Moses. There's nothing in the NT that says anything about Christians giving a tenth of their income to the church. All of our money and possessions belong to God, and we should give of them by faith as He directs us to, in whatever amount He supplies and leads us to give. Only by neglecting to do God's will do we "rob" Him---whether we rob Him by not making the best use of His time, or by not doing what He wants us to do with our money, or by not obeying Him in some other way and squandering the grace and opportunity He has given us to do His will. (I personally believe that a Christian in legitimate need should be able to go to the home of any brother or sister in town and receive assistance in whatever way he or she may need, as the Lord wills and supplies. They shouldn't have to go to a secular food pantry or a homeless shelter. Would you send Jesus to a food pantry or a homeless shelter if He knocked on your door and needed somewhere to stay and something to eat, or some money to pay a bill, and you were able to offer it to Him? Christians have forgotten that their property and goods are not theirs, but God's, and that they are only stewards of those things, with an obligation to do with them what God wills. And if anyone should be the first person to open his door and his wallet to a needy brother or sister, it should be the pastor, who is supposed to set an example for the flock.) By this we know love, that He laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth. (1 John 3:16-18)
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 21, 2018 15:22:17 GMT -5
If someone is a member of a truly good church (they are out there) and God tells him/her to tithe, that’s a good thing. We shouldn’t act like tithing is a sin. It is not a sin to tithe... I do not see a problem in doing it, especially if I know the Church is using it for doing good things and bringing fruit for the kingdom.
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone." - Matthew 23:23
"But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully." - 2 Corinthians 9:6
"So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver." - 2 Corinthians 9:7 God bless you all in Jesus' name!
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 21, 2018 15:33:36 GMT -5
And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. So He said, “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had.” (Luke 21:1-4)
The temple was corrupt and on the verge of being destroyed, but still Jesus didn't say she wasted her money.
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 21, 2018 18:05:21 GMT -5
Then: And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. (Acts 2:42)
Now: And they devoted themselves to chatting about sports, politics, business, hobbies, world news and the latest movies and tv shows, and to playing games and going on recreational excursions and to rock concerts.
When your focus, desire and pursuit is God, the substance and joy of fellowship with other believers will be God also. When your focus, desire and pursuit is carnal pleasure and self-gratification, your fellowship will conform to the same.
The question with Christian fellowship (and worship) is, who is it about---us or God? And if it is about God, it should consist of those things that bring us closer to God and which honor God and please God, and which are His concerns.
If you want to get together with friends to have fun, get together with friends to have fun. But if you're getting together with other believers for spiritual fellowship, neither entertainment nor self should be the focus. The attitude that everything should be fun and entertaining or about oneself is not a spiritually mature one.
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Post by John on Jul 26, 2018 6:20:55 GMT -5
The teaching in the video sounds good on the surface, but it isn't backed up with scripture. He says that we are commanded to have "Christian fellowship," but doesn't show where. Is he speaking of not forsaking the assembling of ourselves? I am not sure. He makes this distinction between types of fellowship, but doesn't back any of it up.
Clearly there are different types of things we do when we fellowship, and some are more spiritual than others. There is a difference between studying scripture or praying with one another, as opposed to discussing the latest world events or the results of last night's ball game. Still, all of this is a type of fellowship. If I attend a baseball game with friends, I am having a time of fellowship with them. If I am gathered around a sick person praying with other saints for their recovery, that is a type of fellowship. If I am discussing a new song I heard on the radio with someone, that is fellowship. If I am in a deep discussion about something Jesus taught with a brother or sister, that is fellowship. Still, there is a deeper type of fellowship than these, and that is mentioned in a passage in 1 John chapter 1.
THAT which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal, life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:1-10
True fellowship in the spiritual sense is not about what we are discussing or doing so much as it has to do with who we are following. If we are followers of Christ, in regard to our faith and actions, we have fellowship with him. If we are walking in darkness, it is not God we are in fellowship with, but the devil. It is not like we have to go around questioning whether or not our conversation about an upcoming election, a plane crash, the death of someone famous, or anything is "Christian" enough to be considered "Christian fellowship." If we are followers of Christ, we have Christian fellowship with him and the fellow saints of God.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 26, 2018 7:34:43 GMT -5
John
I believe Christian fellowship can be considered anything as long as you do it in the light.
This can naturally be anything, from eating to talking about spiritual matters that will edify others.
But in a Christian fellowship scenario, spiritual gifts may just flow naturally, such as exhortation, and other help.
Christians together, walking in the light, seeking not their own but each one of what is of another.
That I believe is an example of Christian fellowship, where the Lord is among us and we are in His light.
"Jesus said to them, “Come and eat breakfast.” Yet none of the disciples dared ask Him, “Who are You?” — knowing that it was the Lord. Jesus then came and took the bread and gave it to them, and likewise the fish." - John 21:12-13
"My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people." - Ezekiel 37:27
"Let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s well-being." - 1 Corinthians 10:24
This forum is a good example of Christian fellowship.
Unbelievers are welcome but they will have to conform to our rules and guidelines as they are not ours but from the Lord Himself.
We have to guide and change unbelievers with the light of the truth and not the other way around.
"And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him." - Colossians 3:17
"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." - 2 Corinthians 3:17
"By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples." - John 15:8
And we have what they will never find in the world, that is the light of the truth and the amazing love of the Lord whom is among us.
"to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God." - Ephesians 3:19
"But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil." - Luke 6:35
God bless you in Jesus' name!
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Post by frienduff on Jul 26, 2018 9:19:12 GMT -5
Exactly . What many have forgotten or never knew IS THIS . When we say be YE HEARERS and NOT DOERS , WHO said it second . JAMES DID . BUT WHO SAID IT FIRST . JESUS DID . IF JESUS said SOMETHING , IT don't get omitted , twisted or discarded . Who said , If a man hates his brother He is a murderer and you know that no murderer has enternal life . JOHN said that , BUT WHO SAID IT FIRST . But I tell you , whoever hates his brother IS GUILTY OF MURDER, JESUS DID . Who said if you have repsect of persons you commit sin , JAMES did , BUT WHO said it first , JESUS DID . IF we take careful note . WE WILL SEE, that those APOSTELS REALLY DID HAVE THE SPIRIT , REALLY DID FOLLOW CHRIST , REALLY DID TEACH HIS SAYINGS PAUL said , the very pattern about correction , THAT JESUS DID . WHO said , being then MADE FREE FROM SIN , you became the servants of righteousness, peter and paul . BUT WHO SAID IT FIRST . THIS he said to those who believed on HIM . IF you continue in me , you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. JESUS DID . And folks act like paul taught a different gospel or no gospel . THEM apostels every one of those letters , DO not make void what the other says IT ONLY COMPLIMENTS . THEY WERE OF ONE MIND ONE HEART , and that mind and heart was OF CHRIST . TIME to do battle and contend for the true faith . We owe no apology to the world for the truth and correction . what is owed IS A MASSIVE APOLOGY of heart felt Sincerity, TO GOD . the churches , rome and others , OWE GOD FIRST and then the world an apology for hundreds and hundreds of years of deception , of lies , of preaching falsehoods . BUT those who speak truth, OWE THE WORLD NO APOLOGY . THEY SIMPLY SERVE GOD and speak truth .
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