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Post by John on Jul 25, 2018 6:14:17 GMT -5
False teachers will try to scare people away from questioning anything they do by misusing scripture. In the verse in question, it specifically speaks of God's anointed. It does not apply to any person who calls themselves a prophet.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 8:18:57 GMT -5
<< It is true that people reflects the fruits of that gift in varying levels, according to their faith. >> It is according to other variables as well.....growth, healing, deliverance, the initial measure that was given, what the enemy does, etc. If everyone was complete and perfect the moment they believed there would hardly be any need for rebuke, reproof, instruction in righteousness....God wouldn't have needed to give us a big deep collection of scriptures that we call the bible, or given gifts to the Body. But He is faithful to complete the work that He BEGINS in us.....coming to faith in Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit is just the beginning. We still have a lot to learn and receive and grow in from that point onward. We are to "invest" the measure that we are given in order to grow more, and not think more highly of ourselves than we ought. If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing he deceives himself.....that's because we all have to learn that we are all nothing....what does anyone have that they didn't receive from the Lord, we have nothing of our own. Who is given much, much is required....it is that very price we pay for our calling (works ordained for us that we should simply walk in them, not ascend to an office and title per se) that is designed to put to death whatever is in our flesh, and it is not usually accomplished overnight...we have a baptism to undergo as Jesus underwent His on the cross, signified by the Israelites going through the Jordan, as a second baptism as it were (Red Sea was the first baptism of coming to faith and being baptized in water). Luk 12:50“But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!Mar 10:37-39They said to Him, "Grant that we may sit, one on Your right and one on Your left, in Your glory.”But Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?”They said to Him, “We are able.” And Jesus said to them, “The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.I worked among Jewish people for a number of years and got to know them quite well, and in the following passage it almost makes me smile because the Lord helped me to see some of their same Jewish irony and sarcasm in Paul's letter to Timothy (as well as elsewhere in the epistles). He is in effect saying, well if anyone wants so much to be a somebody in the church, then they must realize it is a work and not a privileged position....then let's see if they yet qualify, and he lists this long list of almost impossible qualifications that not many would have been ready for especially in that place and time: Ti 3:1-19It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity(but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach.In other words, Paul was nailing any of Timothy's fleshly ambitions that he might have to the wall, and also it lets us know to be careful what we wish/pray for, because we will have to undergo a baptism of death to our flesh accordingly, in order to qualify.
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 25, 2018 8:29:03 GMT -5
LightShines.....EVERYONE is anointed for their ministry and calling, whether it be greater or lesser. There are no special ministers or special anointings....there is to be no schism in the Body of Christ. Everyone just humbly and faithfully does their part without any need to let the left hand know what the right hand is doing. Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. That's simply not true, sister. There are special anointings of the Spirit for various ministries that God desires men to carry out. It's a matter of Him enduing them with spiritual power to do a certain thing, and it's a separate spiritual experience from being born-again---like the filling of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience. All Christians are not filled with the Holy Spirit; neither are all Christians anointed by the Spirit in this way. That doesn't mean that the anointed person is independent from the rest of the body of Christ, but that God has empowered him by a special enduement of the Spirit to do something within that body and/or in the world. And he certainly should be humble about it. Anyone whom God has anointed in such a way is as much a servant of the body as any other member. If God has given him special authority, it is to do His will and to serve others. Yes, we do all have the grace of God available to us to do His unique will for each of us, but that is not the same as being Spirit anointed by God for a certain ministry. Whom God anoints and for what purpose is His business. Why should anyone be resentful if He does it? God uses all of His saints in the way He desires to use them, and apart from His Spirit, none of us can do anything. We're all slaves of Christ. You don't have to agree with me about the filling of the Spirit, and the anointing of the Spirit, being separate spiritual experiences from the born-again experience (which all Christians have)---although one or the other may take place at the same time as spiritual conversion---but I know this to be true.
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Post by justinadams on Jul 25, 2018 8:45:14 GMT -5
<< It is true that people reflects the fruits of that gift in varying levels, according to their faith. >> It is according to other variables as well.....growth, healing, deliverance, the initial measure that was given, what the enemy does, etc. If everyone was complete and perfect the moment they believed there would hardly be any need for rebuke, reproof, instruction in righteousness....God wouldn't have needed to give us a big deep collection of scriptures that we call the bible, or given gifts to the Body. But He is faithful to complete the work that He BEGINS in us.....coming to faith in Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit is just the beginning. We still have a lot to learn and receive and grow in from that point onward. We are to "invest" the measure that we are given in order to grow more, and not think more highly of ourselves than we ought. If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing he deceives himself.....that's because we all have to learn that we are all nothing....what does anyone have that they didn't receive from the Lord, we have nothing of our own. Who is given much, much is required....it is that very price we pay for our calling (works ordained for us that we should simply walk in them, not ascend to an office and title per se) that is designed to put to death whatever is in our flesh, and it is not usually accomplished overnight...we have a baptism to undergo as Jesus underwent His on the cross, signified by the Israelites going through the Jordan, as a second baptism as it were (Red Sea was the first baptism of coming to faith and being baptized in water). Luk 12:50“But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!Mar 10:37-39They said to Him, "Grant that we may sit, one on Your right and one on Your left, in Your glory.”But Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?”They said to Him, “We are able.” And Jesus said to them, “The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.I worked among Jewish people for a number of years and got to know them quite well, and in the following passage it almost makes me smile because the Lord helped me to see some of their same Jewish irony and sarcasm in Paul's letter to Timothy (as well as elsewhere in the epistles). He is in effect saying, well if anyone wants so much to be a somebody in the church, then they must realize it is a work and not a privileged position....then let's see if they yet qualify, and he lists this long list of almost impossible qualifications that not many would have been ready for especially in that place and time: Ti 3:1-19It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity(but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach.In other words, Paul was nailing any of Timothy's fleshly ambitions that he might have to the wall, and also it lets us know to be careful what we wish/pray for, because we will have to undergo a baptism of death to our flesh accordingly, in order to qualify. You are so correct. I fail on every count in trumps!! Also the hyperbole that Yeshua often used is quite lost on us. You really do have to get into an Israeli mindset to get it sometimes. Also the Aramaic language was used and these colloquialisms are lost to us because we seem to downplay the Aramaic in favor of the more terse and clinical Greek. I am hoping that the new Aramaic translation and transliteration will be finished soon. I think we would all benefit from 'The Son of David' and the way He used Davidic humor quite often. David was an excellent poet and very good at dual meanings and clever with words. No less so than the Son of David (as He called Himself sometimes). I am sure that Yeshua was a master of language and a humorous and poetic turn of speech. Aramaic, as a close Semitic language, lent itself to a vast amount of licence and hyperbole. The Lord High God Created Humor. What else would you expect?
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 25, 2018 8:56:07 GMT -5
<< It is true that people reflects the fruits of that gift in varying levels, according to their faith. >> It is according to other variables as well.....growth, healing, deliverance, the initial measure that was given, what the enemy does, etc. If everyone was complete and perfect the moment they believed there would hardly be any need for rebuke, reproof, instruction in righteousness....God wouldn't have needed to give us a big deep collection of scriptures that we call the bible, or given gifts to the Body. But He is faithful to complete the work that He BEGINS in us.....coming to faith in Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit is just the beginning. We still have a lot to learn and receive and grow in from that point onward. We are to "invest" the measure that we are given in order to grow more, and not think more highly of ourselves than we ought. If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing he deceives himself.....that's because we all have to learn that we are all nothing....what does anyone have that they didn't receive from the Lord, we have nothing of our own. Who is given much, much is required....it is that very price we pay for our calling (works ordained for us that we should simply walk in them, not ascend to an office and title per se) that is designed to put to death whatever is in our flesh, and it is not usually accomplished overnight...we have a baptism to undergo as Jesus underwent His on the cross, signified by the Israelites going through the Jordan, as a second baptism as it were (Red Sea was the first baptism of coming to faith and being baptized in water). Luk 12:50“But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!Mar 10:37-39They said to Him, "Grant that we may sit, one on Your right and one on Your left, in Your glory.”But Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?”They said to Him, “We are able.” And Jesus said to them, “The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.I worked among Jewish people for a number of years and got to know them quite well, and in the following passage it almost makes me smile because the Lord helped me to see some of their same Jewish irony and sarcasm in Paul's letter to Timothy (as well as elsewhere in the epistles). He is in effect saying, well if anyone wants so much to be a somebody in the church, then they must realize it is a work and not a privileged position....then let's see if they yet qualify, and he lists this long list of almost impossible qualifications that not many would have been ready for especially in that place and time: Ti 3:1-19It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity(but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach.In other words, Paul was nailing any of Timothy's fleshly ambitions that he might have to the wall, and also it lets us know to be careful what we wish/pray for, because we will have to undergo a baptism of death to our flesh accordingly, in order to qualify. I don't believe that what Paul wrote to Timothy about the qualifications for overseers and deacons had anything to do with addressing some potential fleshly ambition of Timothy's. He did warn Timothy about various things for Timothy's own sake in his letters to him---such as fleeing youthful passions and the love of money and avoiding irreverent babble---but this was not one of those places. Paul was simply giving him instructions about how to choose overseers and deacons and who was and was not qualified to serve in those capacities. Paul was not being ironic or sarcastic, he was being serious and matter of fact. He was not discouraging Timothy or anyone else from pursuing these positions, but he was laying out the requirements, which are many and specific because of the serious responsibility of those positions, so that Timothy would know how to choose men for these offices. (Paul said himself, truthfully, and without sarcasm, that a man who desired to be an overseer was desiring a noble task, just as he told the church in Corinth to earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, and especially the higher gifts---not for some selfish reason but because those greater gifts are especially beneficial to the body and God wants Christians to have them for that reason. You think Paul was smirking to himself when he wrote the brothers to earnestly desire the higher gifts, and didn't actually mean it? He most certainly was not.)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 14:18:58 GMT -5
<< All Christians are not filled with the Holy Spirit; >>
I would have to see scriptures that agree with what you are saying about these things LightShines, and also to your belief that spiritual gifts are not for all believers. I do not see any of your doctrine on this in how the Body of Christ and gifts are spoken of in the epistles. I don't see the word “special” in scripture applied to things of the spirit at all……and we are not to go beyond what is written, so that needs to be washed from our mind and have our mind transformed to the truth in spirit.
Everyone in the Body of Christ is special, and set apart for God, and has works ordained for them, and the Holy Spirit is available for all to be filled, if they will seek it…..and if they are encouraged to seek it and discipled accordingly, rather than being taught to believe it is only for some. We need to get that settled in our mind and heart, otherwise some will think they are special, and rob others of their standing in the Lord, and start to lord it over them and eat their choice meat. There is to be no schism in the Body...that means nobody is more special than others. That way of thinking is not from the Spirit, but is a hallmark of antichrist mystery Babylon and the apostate church I’m afraid…..and it is not resentment I have towards that way of thinking, it is anger because it PREVENTS people from entering the kingdom.
Deu 7:6
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
The Holy Spirit is for ALL believers……and gifts of the Spirit are for ALL believers…..ALL believers have works ordained for them to walk in, and ALL are even encouraged to seek greater gifts. The only reason we don’t see all believers filled with the Spirit and walking in works of the Spirit………is for the very reason that they believe and are taught either that those things are only for a select few, or for nobody at all as in the case of cessationists.
Luk 11:10-13
For EVERY ONE that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: HOW MUCH MORE SHALL YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER GIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THEM THAT ASK HIM?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 14:27:30 GMT -5
<< It is true that people reflects the fruits of that gift in varying levels, according to their faith. >> It is according to other variables as well.....growth, healing, deliverance, the initial measure that was given, what the enemy does, etc. If everyone was complete and perfect the moment they believed there would hardly be any need for rebuke, reproof, instruction in righteousness....God wouldn't have needed to give us a big deep collection of scriptures that we call the bible, or given gifts to the Body. But He is faithful to complete the work that He BEGINS in us.....coming to faith in Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit is just the beginning. We still have a lot to learn and receive and grow in from that point onward. We are to "invest" the measure that we are given in order to grow more, and not think more highly of ourselves than we ought. If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing he deceives himself.....that's because we all have to learn that we are all nothing....what does anyone have that they didn't receive from the Lord, we have nothing of our own. Who is given much, much is required....it is that very price we pay for our calling (works ordained for us that we should simply walk in them, not ascend to an office and title per se) that is designed to put to death whatever is in our flesh, and it is not usually accomplished overnight...we have a baptism to undergo as Jesus underwent His on the cross, signified by the Israelites going through the Jordan, as a second baptism as it were (Red Sea was the first baptism of coming to faith and being baptized in water). Luk 12:50“But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!Mar 10:37-39They said to Him, "Grant that we may sit, one on Your right and one on Your left, in Your glory.”But Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?”They said to Him, “We are able.” And Jesus said to them, “The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.I worked among Jewish people for a number of years and got to know them quite well, and in the following passage it almost makes me smile because the Lord helped me to see some of their same Jewish irony and sarcasm in Paul's letter to Timothy (as well as elsewhere in the epistles). He is in effect saying, well if anyone wants so much to be a somebody in the church, then they must realize it is a work and not a privileged position....then let's see if they yet qualify, and he lists this long list of almost impossible qualifications that not many would have been ready for especially in that place and time: Ti 3:1-19It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity(but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach.In other words, Paul was nailing any of Timothy's fleshly ambitions that he might have to the wall, and also it lets us know to be careful what we wish/pray for, because we will have to undergo a baptism of death to our flesh accordingly, in order to qualify. I don't believe that what Paul wrote to Timothy about the qualifications for overseers and deacons had anything to do with addressing some potential fleshly ambition of Timothy's. He did warn Timothy about various things for Timothy's own sake in his letters to him---such as fleeing youthful passions and the love of money and avoiding irreverent babble---but this was not one of those places. Paul was simply giving him instructions about how to choose overseers and deacons and who was and was not qualified to serve in those capacities. Paul was not being ironic or sarcastic, he was being serious and matter of fact. He was not discouraging Timothy or anyone else from pursuing these positions, but he was laying out the requirements, which are many and specific because of the serious responsibility of those positions, so that Timothy would know how to choose men for these offices. (Paul said himself, truthfully, and without sarcasm, that a man who desired to be an overseer was desiring a noble task, just as he told the church in Corinth to earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, and especially the higher gifts---not for some selfish reason but because those greater gifts are especially beneficial to the body and God wants Christians to have them for that reason. You think Paul was smirking to himself when he wrote the brothers to earnestly desire the higher gifts, and didn't actually mean it? He most certainly was not.) Paul was not smirking to himself, he was sincere and serious in his intent....the sarcasm was meant to make a point. And the point is not about discouraging anyone from desiring greater gifts, but is about reproving any wrong motives for the desire....and almost as though he wanted to make it hard for anyone with wrong motives to even want such a job.....just like Jesus provoked those whose hearts were not right and made it hard for them to follow Him.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 25, 2018 15:37:43 GMT -5
It's a matter of Him enduing them with spiritual power to do a certain thing, and it's a separate spiritual experience from being born-again---like the filling of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience. All Christians are not filled with the Holy Spirit; neither are all Christians anointed by the Spirit in this way. And this is the part where we have many disagreements.
I believe all Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit, otherwise the truth is not in them.
And people think that these people who Paul encountered were already saved:
"he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”" - Acts 19:2
They have never heard of Him then how could they receive Him?! So, I do not believe they were saved.
But God knew their hearts and He sent Paul to preach to them, so they believed and received Him.
If they had not done so they would have denied Him and they would remain dead.
"Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”" - Acts 19:4
"When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." - Acts 19:5
That is why I said they were not saved... They have not received the Spirit of Christ.
"Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Acts 2:38
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 25, 2018 15:38:28 GMT -5
<< All Christians are not filled with the Holy Spirit; >> I would have to see scriptures that agree with what you are saying about these things LightShines, and also to your belief that spiritual gifts are not for all believers. I do not see any of your doctrine on this in how the Body of Christ and gifts are spoken of in the epistles. I don't see the word “special” in scripture applied to things of the spirit at all……and we are not to go beyond what is written, so that needs to be washed from our mind and have our mind transformed to the truth in spirit. Everyone in the Body of Christ is special, and set apart for God, and has works ordained for them, and the Holy Spirit is available for all to be filled, if they will seek it…..and if they are encouraged to seek it and discipled accordingly, rather than being taught to believe it is only for some. We need to get that settled in our mind and heart, otherwise some will think they are special, and rob others of their standing in the Lord, and start to lord it over them and eat their choice meat. There is to be no schism in the Body...that means nobody is more special than others. That way of thinking is not from the Spirit, but is a hallmark of antichrist mystery Babylon and the apostate church I’m afraid…..and it is not resentment I have towards that way of thinking, it is anger because it PREVENTS people from entering the kingdom. Deu 7:6
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.The Holy Spirit is for ALL believers……and gifts of the Spirit are for ALL believers…..ALL believers have works ordained for them to walk in, and ALL are even encouraged to seek greater gifts. The only reason we don’t see all believers filled with the Spirit and walking in works of the Spirit………is for the very reason that they believe and are taught either that those things are only for a select few, or for nobody at all as in the case of cessationists. Luk 11:10-13
For EVERY ONE that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: HOW MUCH MORE SHALL YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER GIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THEM THAT ASK HIM?
I did not say that all Christians could not be filled with the Spirit, I said that not all were. In fact, most are not. There are many Christians who teach and believe that all Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit when they are born again, but this is not the case for most. Being filled is a separate experience. That is what I said in my previous post. You can search the Scriptures for yourself concerning this subject if you like. Not all Christians have spiritual gifts either. Some do, some don't. They are available to all believers, but that doesn't mean they all have one, or that God will give every Christian one. That's His choice, according to His will for each individual. Not having a gift doesn't make one a lesser Christian than a gifted one, nor is it necessary for a Christian to have a gift to do God's will for him or her. The reason we don't see all believers filled with the Spirit is because God has chosen to withhold this from them for one reason or another. It may not be necessary for him or her---as this enduement, if you look to the Scriptures, has primarily to do with equipping men to evangelize or to do some other work in the church that requires greater wisdom or spiritual power of some kind; or the Christian may not be worthy to receive that gift because he or she is not sufficiently obedient to God already; or He may intend to fill them at a future time but has not yet done so, as was the case with the apostles. We must be careful not to let earthly attitudes creep into our hearts regarding this subject. Just because God doesn't do the same thing with all Christians doesn't mean that He has favorites. He favors those who do His will; period. His will for one is not necessarily His will for another. The idea that a Christian is special because he or she has a gift or God has given him or her a calling that He has not given another, is of the flesh and not of the Spirit. We are not to compare ourselves to each other. Let us each just concern ourselves with doing whatever it is that God desires and has called and given us to do personally, and not with what He has called someone else to do. (As Jesus said to Peter, when Peter asked about what the Lord was going to do with the apostle John, "...What is that to you? You follow Me!") We're all serving the same Master, and each of us will be rewarded according to our work. Nobody receives any more from God than is necessary to do God's will for him or her, and we should not desire more than that. (What righteous reason would there be to desire more than that? Think about this please.) That there is any jealousy or resentment or division or pride among Christians regarding what God has given or is doing with this one or that one is not any fault or desire of God's in His distribution of gifts to those whom He is pleased to give them, or how He works in this one's life and that one's life; it is entirely the fault of unspiritual thinking and attitudes on the part of Christians.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 25, 2018 15:50:27 GMT -5
Not all Christians have spiritual gifts either. Some do, some don't. They are available to all believers, but that doesn't mean they all have one, or that God will give every Christian one. That's His choice, according to His will for each individual. Not having a gift doesn't make one a lesser Christian than a gifted one, nor is it necessary for a Christian to have a gift to do God's will for him or her. I believe all Christians have spiritual gifts, at least they must have one... That is saving faith working through His love; which means the dwelling Holy Spirit.
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." - Galatians 5:6
The Holy Spirit is a gift from God, and without Him they cannot do God's will.
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience..." - Ephesians 2:1-2
"that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height — to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God." - Ephesians 3:17-19
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 25, 2018 17:41:15 GMT -5
Not all Christians have spiritual gifts either. Some do, some don't. They are available to all believers, but that doesn't mean they all have one, or that God will give every Christian one. That's His choice, according to His will for each individual. Not having a gift doesn't make one a lesser Christian than a gifted one, nor is it necessary for a Christian to have a gift to do God's will for him or her. I believe all Christians have spiritual gifts, at least they must have one... That is saving faith working through His love; which means the dwelling Holy Spirit.
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." - Galatians 5:6
The Holy Spirit is a gift from God, and without Him they cannot do God's will.
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience..." - Ephesians 2:1-2
"that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height — to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God." - Ephesians 3:17-19We all have the Holy Spirit, but we do not all have spiritual gifts. (Spiritual gifts should not be confused with the fruits of the Spirit, which all Christians have, in varying amounts and to varying degrees). Spiritual gifts are not an automatic result of having the Spirit of God in you. They are not necessary for salvation, and they are not necessary for doing God's will unless it is God's will to give you one to be used according to His will for you. Spiritual gifts do not have anything to do with sanctification or spiritual maturity either; they are neither necessary for these things, nor do they bring them about. A gifted Christian can be just as spiritually immature in his thinking as non-gifted one---a problem the apostle Paul had to deal with with the brothers in Corinth (various of whom had gifts), which he addressed in his first epistle to that church. Thinking that all Christians have spiritual gifts when this is not the case unfortunately leads people to believe that they have something that they do not actually have or that they have been called to do something that God has not actually called or equipped them to do and doesn't desire them to do. We can only please God by doing and being what He has called us to do and be, not by "playing gifts" or being presumptuous or foolish with regard to His will for us. If God wants anyone to have a gift for the purpose of doing His will, He'll give it to him or her. Spiritual gifts should not be the focus of a Christian's faith but rather bearing the fruits of the Spirit in increasing measure, and doing the will of God. God doesn't emphasize gifts as being the most important thing for Christians in His word, and Christians shouldn't either. The preoccupation with them generally comes from unspiritual thinking.
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Post by frienduff on Jul 25, 2018 17:49:56 GMT -5
Their is what is KNOWN as the Baptism of the HOLY GHOST . While all TRUE beleivers DO have the SPIRIT . Not all have been baptized with the HOLY GHOST . the twelve apostles had the spirit else they would not have believed IN JESUS . but THE BAPTISM did not occur till the day of Pentecost . Just like their were beleivers Who did believe and had the spirit , BUT THEY TOO had not RECIEVED the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT . Sometimes it occurred INSTANT , the moment they repented and believed . In some cases it happened later . I had the Spirit on day one , but what I experienced almost three months later , WAS the baptism of the HOLY GHOST . its the only time I ever spoke with tongues . I remember the night as it were yesterday . sept thirteenth of two thousand and six . Ye have not , because you ask not . And it did not happen in any church . it was at home . And I truly pray that none condemn anyone as not having the SPIRIT , just because THEY AINT spoke n tongues . OR that they aint saved etc . NOT all speak with tongues , just like not all heal , not all have the gift of prophecy , while all may prophesy , still not all have THE GIFT of prophecy. JUST like all may have faith , but then the gift of faith . but all gifts are used to build each one up and the others . Example . not all all may be apostels , or deacons , one may have the gift of faith to move all moutains , another the gift of healing . BUT what each gift does , its used to build the others up . example , The one who has faith to move all moutains , BUILDS the others faith UP , by that faith . Or one who teaches , teaches the memebers to build them up . Aint no man a one man show . ALL gifts are needed for the purpose of edifciation . ITS the ONE SAME SPIRIT that is doing all the work through the members . And no man earned what they were given or deserved it . ITS HOW GOD did it . HE gives the gifts as HE sees fit . And no one is better than the other . EQUALITY . FOR its not by our power or by our might ITS BY HIS GRACE . SO this lil group GONNA POINT ONLY TO JESUS . And if any heads start to swell with pride , it will fast get corretected . We got to look out for one another . GOD alone will GET ALL GLORY and ALL EXALTATION . JESUS ALONE will be who we exalt and not ourselves . NOW , on that note , I bet yall know what TIME O DAY IT IS ...................OH YES , YES IT IS , IT IS TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD .
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 25, 2018 18:17:42 GMT -5
We all have the Holy Spirit, but we do not all have spiritual gifts. ( Spiritual gifts should not be confused with the fruits of the Spirit, which all Christians have, in varying amounts and to varying degrees). Spiritual gifts are not an automatic result of having the Spirit of God in you. They are not necessary for salvation, and they are not necessary for doing God's will unless it is God's will to give you one to be used according to His will for you. I believe the fruits of the Spirit is dependent on the level of faith in the person. The more knowledge of truth, the more faith, more is expected.
Love, the indwelling Holy Spirit in a person rejoices in the truth of His words. And only by His Spirit can that truth be fulfilled in the life of a believer, by faith.
Saving faith is that gift I am talking about... all Christians have that saving faith working together with His Spirit and His words.
Of course, that gift is not seen as a spiritual gift such as prophecy, healing, or tongues. But I believe it is a spiritual gift anyway.Spiritual gifts do not have anything to do with sanctification or spiritual maturity either; they are neither necessary for these things, nor do they bring them about. A gifted Christian can be just as spiritually immature in his thinking as non-gifted one---a problem the apostle Paul had to deal with with the brothers in Corinth (various of whom had gifts), which he addressed in his first epistle to that church. Thinking that all Christians have spiritual gifts when this is not the case unfortunately leads people to believe that they have something that they do not actually have or that they have been called to do something that God has not actually called or equipped them to do and doesn't desire them to do. We can only please God by doing and being what He has called us to do and be, not by "playing gifts" or being presumptuous or foolish with regard to His will for us. If God wants anyone to have a gift for the purpose of doing His will, He'll give it to him or her. Spiritual gifts should not be the focus of a Christian's faith but rather bearing the fruits of the Spirit in increasing measure, and doing the will of God. God doesn't emphasize gifts as being the most important thing for Christians in His word, and Christians shouldn't either. The preoccupation with them generally comes from unspiritual thinking. I believe spiritual maturity and sanctification is heavily linked with saving faith, wisdom, and knowledge of truth.
The more truth one applies to their lives by the Spirit, the more sanctified they become.
"For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." - Romans 8:13Thinking that all Christians have spiritual gifts when this is not the case unfortunately leads people to believe that they have something that they do not actually have or that they have been called to do something that God has not actually called or equipped them to do and doesn't desire them to do.We can only please God by doing and being what He has called us to do and be, not by "playing gifts" or being presumptuous or foolish with regard to His will for us. If God wants anyone to have a gift for the purpose of doing His will, He'll give it to him or her. Spiritual gifts should not be the focus of a Christian's faith but rather bearing the fruits of the Spirit in increasing measure, and doing the will of God. God doesn't emphasize gifts as being the most important thing for Christians in His word, and Christians shouldn't either. The preoccupation with them generally comes from unspiritual thinking.
We are told to pursue love and to desire spiritual gifts... Then I believe there is not much to be said here, just follow the faith God has given you.
"Jesus said to him, “If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.”" - Mark 9:23We can only please God by doing and being what He has called us to do and be, not by "playing gifts" or being presumptuous or foolish with regard to His will for us.If God wants anyone to have a gift for the purpose of doing His will, He'll give it to him or her. Spiritual gifts should not be the focus of a Christian's faith but rather bearing the fruits of the Spirit in increasing measure, and doing the will of God. God doesn't emphasize gifts as being the most important thing for Christians in His word, and Christians shouldn't either. The preoccupation with them generally comes from unspiritual thinking.
I believe we can only please God by faith, as without faith it is impossible to please Him...
then if you know Him and walk according to His Spirit you are not doing nothing wrong.
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." - Galatians 5:18
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." - Romans 8:14If God wants anyone to have a gift for the purpose of doing His will, He'll give it to him or her. Spiritual gifts should not be the focus of a Christian's faith but rather bearing the fruits of the Spirit in increasing measure, and doing the will of God. God doesn't emphasize gifts as being the most important thing for Christians in His word, and Christians shouldn't either. The preoccupation with them generally comes from unspiritual thinking. I believe God will reveal to each one personally what they can do with what He has given to them.
I do not believe that God will give you a gift and let you in the dark without using it... I believe He will lead you to discovery and exercise of the gifts He has given to you.
And obviously, I believe God will instruct the person on how to properly use them, how, why, and when.
"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." - Philippians 2:13
"Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them..." - Romans 12:6
For example, I know I do not have gift of tongues or interpretation of tongues because I never manifested them and I have no interest in seeking them as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 7:54:59 GMT -5
There is no question that spiritual gifts come along with the Holy Spirit.....everyone who receives the Baptism of the Holy Spirit receives spiritual gifts....they go hand-in-hand, and even can seek more. Everyone is a part of the Body.....and that is talking about being a spiritual part of a spiritual Body.....so of course each one has gifts according to the part that they are.
Mat 7:7-11 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. “For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. “Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? “Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? “If you then, being evil, know how to give GOOD GIFTS to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give GOOD THINGS to those who ask Him!
Luk 11:9-13 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. “For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. “If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? “Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? “If you then, being evil, know how to give GOOD GIFTS to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the HOLY SPIRIT to those who ask Him!”
Gifts are for the building up of the entire Body and there is no part of the Body that is not necessary for this, say the scriptures. They are also given for the ministration of the gospel....signs follow the preaching of the gospel....and people coming into the kingdom need deliverance, healing, miracles. The Body of Christ needs not only to be prepared for suffering in the tribulation, they need to be prepared to triumph in the midst of it and participate in destroying the works of the enemy. Catholicism is huge on suffering morosely without having any effect on building up the kingdom of God and in overcoming the kingdom of darkness whatsoever. We are sure hoping and believing the Bride of Christ will do better than that in the time soon to come.
And of course we don't need to wait for the tribulation. Why do we think the church is in such a bad state.....powerless and deceived, overtaken by the world in a state of retreat, instead of being on the offensive overtaking the world... it has never been built up properly (edified) and began crumbling as soon as the wolves that Paul spoke about started to come in when he departed, THAT long ago! What do wolves do....they put down the Body of Christ so that they cannot rise, in order to have the people in a state of submission to do their will, to feed their flesh, build their kingdoms.
1Co 14:26
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying (building up).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 8:50:36 GMT -5
Also the hyperbole that Yeshua often used is quite lost on us. You really do have to get into an Israeli mindset to get it sometimes. Also the Aramaic language was used and these colloquialisms are lost to us because we seem to downplay the Aramaic in favor of the more terse and clinical Greek. I am hoping that the new Aramaic translation and transliteration will be finished soon. I think we would all benefit from 'The Son of David' and the way He used Davidic humor quite often. David was an excellent poet and very good at dual meanings and clever with words. No less so than the Son of David (as He called Himself sometimes). I am sure that Yeshua was a master of language and a humorous and poetic turn of speech. Aramaic, as a close Semitic language, lent itself to a vast amount of licence and hyperbole. The Lord High God Created Humor. What else would you expect? Yes, you would almost think He was a real person.....many without knowing it still think in terms of religiosity....almost as though the people in the bible were porcelain statues walking around with halos. I wouldn't mind seeing that Aramaic bible, it might be good to enrichen one's understanding....would have to be careful with it though, it's hard to trust anything coming out nowadays.
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