Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jul 31, 2018 13:09:34 GMT -5
the title says it all. I am blown away and beside myself with a recent experience i had. I was in another forum, i think you know which one, and someone wanted to know where the gospel was in the bible. when the topic came up about repentance they quoted the definition which says to change your mind. and no matter what scriptures i quoted or what common sense was presented, such as, if you change your mind you change how you live, and Jesus didnt tell people to go change your mind, He said go and sin no more... they still cling to confessing sin and turning from sin is not apart of salvation. i read this guys testimony and there is nothing conclusive to determine he is saved, the Spirit of Jesus resides in him, or anything to say he is saved. he kinda tip toed around it. on this forum there has been some discussion about repentance. I have given testimony. I have said how in my area its still mostly biblical beliefs. How bad is this false teaching in America and other places where churches are built and people go? I didnt really understand until now i guess why yall keep posting warnings and all that. For a while now i thought man yall are on some kinda trip with this, i think now i have been very wrong to think that way. people are so blind that when shown truth written out they deny it. they deny The Written Word of God. They call God a liar.
should we debate with these folks or should we just shake the dust off our feet? I don't know because this is a new level of stubborn to me, and i am stubborn myself. are they given over already? doomed with no hope? I know they are fools, according to The Bible... but when this is encountered what should we do? just plant a seed and go on or is this casting pearls to swine?
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Post by frienduff on Jul 31, 2018 16:17:52 GMT -5
Cletus its truly tragic what I have seen in places . All we can do is warn , remind , rebuke , encourage . IF they don't hear its why you always see me leave pretty quick after they just don't hear . I correct once or twice , but when I see no wisdom in them We just move on and keep on sounding out truth and prayerfully some will hear . But Cletus , I am telling you , most reject and have become very hard againsttruth . very hard . I don't strive with those , I just remind wherever I go and if folks keep striving , you watch how fast I just move on to another post . Paul said after the first or second admonition reject such a one . I feel a huge burden for many . but Cletus , folks simply follow what they love and desire . AND If that heart rejects GOD , well they justdont love truth .
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 31, 2018 16:21:50 GMT -5
the title says it all. I am blown away and beside myself with a recent experience i had. I was in another forum, i think you know which one, and someone wanted to know where the gospel was in the bible. when the topic came up about repentance they quoted the definition which says to change your mind. and no matter what scriptures i quoted or what common sense was presented, such as, if you change your mind you change how you live, and Jesus didnt tell people to go change your mind, He said go and sin no more... they still cling to confessing sin and turning from sin is not apart of salvation. i read this guys testimony and there is nothing conclusive to determine he is saved, the Spirit of Jesus resides in him, or anything to say he is saved. he kinda tip toed around it. on this forum there has been some discussion about repentance. I have given testimony. I have said how in my area its still mostly biblical beliefs. How bad is this false teaching in America and other places where churches are built and people go? I didnt really understand until now i guess why yall keep posting warnings and all that. For a while now i thought man yall are on some kinda trip with this, i think now i have been very wrong to think that way. people are so blind that when shown truth written out they deny it. they deny The Written Word of God. They call God a liar.
should we debate with these folks or should we just shake the dust off our feet? I don't know because this is a new level of stubborn to me, and i am stubborn myself. are they given over already? doomed with no hope? I know they are fools, according to The Bible... but when this is encountered what should we do? just plant a seed and go on or is this casting pearls to swine?
"Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned." - Titus 3:10-11
"Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul." - Ezekiel 3:19
"Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector." - Matthew 18:15-17
"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces." - Matthew 7:6
"Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the Lord and depart from evil." - Proverbs 3:7When it comes to Spiritual conviction, it is usually very strong and impossible to ignore.
"He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself..." - 1 John 5:10
"And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.
"...he who does not believe God has made Him a liar..." - 1 John 5:10
"And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." - John 3:19
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jul 31, 2018 18:00:53 GMT -5
thanks. I am not going to strive either. If they dont listen God is not drawing them.
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 31, 2018 18:25:24 GMT -5
I’ve personally witnessed some ridiculous things in the church. Absolute heresy. Foolishness that boggles the mind. Overall nationwide, the serious followers of Jesus are indeed outnumbered.
As soon as you realize you’re wasting your time on a person, walk away. Contend with them as long and conversation keeps moving, but if it gets to the point that you’re going in circles, that’s your sign to leave. Proverbs tells us too many times that it’s useless to correct a fool.
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 31, 2018 19:14:18 GMT -5
The Holy Spirit is able to give us discernment about people, so that we can see 'through' what they are saying to the heart of the matter (and the person), to know why certain things are being asked (motives), what a person's true spiritual needs are (what really needs to be addressed or said, which may not even have anything to do with what the person is presenting), and what sort of a spirit or attitude they have. And with experience of exercising the Lord's judgment (discernment), you get to knowing what to say and whether and how long to engage, and can avoid a lot of wasted breath and labor, and unnecessary grief and vexation. Sometimes when we get emotionally involved in a debate we may persist in it for our emotions' sake or according to our own desire when it really isn't beneficial to the other person, or desirable to the Lord for us to do so. That's something to be aware of; keeping in mind what His will is.
Knowing when you're dealing with a fool (like in Proverbs), when you're really dealing with a demon working through a person who is under their influence, or when you're being baited by someone who has ulterior motives (like the teachers of the law and the Pharisees tried to do with Jesus), and knowing what a person really needs, according to what God's desire and concern for them is (which may not have anything to do with what they are talking about, as in the examples of Nicodemus and Jesus and of Jesus and the woman of Samaria at the well), comes with God-given discernment and experience. If we pay attention to Him, the Holy Spirit will help us to know whether we should engage and in what way and for how long.
Being "wise as serpents" requires the wisdom of the Holy Spirit's insight and counsel. We ourselves may not know what is what, or what to say, but God knows.
"I can do nothing on My own. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is just, because I seek not My own will but the will of Him who sent Me." (John 5:30)
The spiritual man judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Corinthians 2:15,16)
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Post by Sister on Jul 31, 2018 20:35:00 GMT -5
thanks. I am not going to strive either. If they dont listen God is not drawing them. He's sent there to stir trouble, but you answered him well. We learn how to answer with conversations such as these, and the Lord is showing us that not all who claim to be in the kingdom are in the kingdom.
He displayed his fruits, and did not come with the gospel of peace. It was manifested for all to see and for a witness against him if he doesn't repent. He owes you an apology for attacking your good conversation in Christ, in trying to help him, for he was the one appearing to reach out for godly advice, but it was obviously a trick.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jul 31, 2018 20:57:47 GMT -5
The Holy Spirit is able to give us discernment about people, so that we can see 'through' what they are saying to the heart of the matter (and the person), to know why certain things are being asked (motives), what a person's true spiritual needs are (what really needs to be addressed or said, which may not even have anything to do with what the person is presenting), and what sort of a spirit or attitude they have. And with experience of exercising the Lord's judgment (discernment), you get to knowing what to say and whether and how long to engage, and can avoid a lot of wasted breath and labor, and unnecessary grief and vexation. Sometimes when we get emotionally involved in a debate we may persist in it for our emotions' sake or according to our own desire when it really isn't beneficial to the other person, or desirable to the Lord for us to do so. That's something to be aware of; keeping in mind what His will is. Knowing when you're dealing with a fool (like in Proverbs), when you're really dealing with a demon working through a person who is under their influence, or when you're being baited by someone who has ulterior motives (like the teachers of the law and the scribes tried to do with Jesus), and knowing what a person really needs, according to what God's desire and concern for them is (which may not have anything to do with what they are talking about, as in the examples of Nicodemus and Jesus and of Jesus and the woman of Samaria at the well), comes with God-given discernment and experience. If we pay attention to Him, the Holy Spirit will help us to know whether we should engage and in what way and for how long. Being "wise as serpents" requires the wisdom of the Holy Spirit's insight and counsel. We ourselves may not know what is what, or what to say, but God knows. "I can do nothing on My own. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is just, because I seek not My own will but the will of Him who sent Me." (John 5:30) The spiritual man judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Corinthians 2:15,16) You are right. I had the feeling in my chest early on when he made a comment that was not exactly graceful. I should have bounced then. I am glad you pointed this out because i was not listening to that... i was thinking more about helping him. I dont think its a demon. I think its a person with false teaching and a closed mind/heart. I think because what he said it got under my skin a little... thats why i was not listening to my spirit on this. thank you for this post.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jul 31, 2018 21:10:37 GMT -5
thanks. I am not going to strive either. If they dont listen God is not drawing them. He's sent there to stir trouble, but you answered him well. We learn how to answer with conversations such as these, and the Lord is showing us that not all who claim to be in the kingdom are in the kingdom.
He displayed his fruits, and did not come with the gospel of peace. It was manifested for all to see and for a witness against him if he doesn't repent. He owes you an apology for attacking your good conversation in Christ, in trying to help him, for he was the one appearing to reach out for godly advice, but it was obviously a trick.
It seems that the message of just believe and receive is more popular than I thought. Its ok about an apology. God let this happen for a reason. I am better for it too.
edit: I like what you said too.
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