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Post by tlsitd on Aug 1, 2018 15:40:15 GMT -5
Once-saved-always-saved is one of the most pervasive potentially deadly false teachings in Christianity today---believed to be doctrinal truth, when in fact it is a lie based on misunderstandings of and selective reading of Scripture, and on the teachings of Calvinism (some of which are correct, others of which are not).
(Beware of making the teachings of man your authority, rather than the word of God. Make sure that what any man teaches is supported by the Scriptures---and not just by selectively chosen ones. Ask the Lord Jesus to teach you the truth, with a humble and sincere heart, and clean hands before Him. It doesn't matter how many people believe that a lie is true; it still doesn't make it true, and the consequences of the truth still stand.)
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 1, 2018 16:11:14 GMT -5
"Because, indeed, because they have seduced My people, saying, ‘Peace!’ when there is no peace..." - Ezekiel 13:10
"Then I said, “Ah, Lord God! Behold, the prophets say to them, ‘You shall not see the sword, nor shall you have famine..." - Jeremiah 14:13
" And the Lord said to me, “The prophets prophesy lies in My name. I have not sent them, commanded them, nor spoken to them; they prophesy to you a false vision, divination, a worthless thing, and the deceit of their heart." - Jeremiah 14:14"
"He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters." - Luke 11:23
"And you shall be holy to Me, for I the Lord am holy, and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be Mine." - Leviticus 20:26
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 1, 2018 16:40:01 GMT -5
And I would like to add:
That most people who are under OSAS are "conviction-phobe" and they have not put on Christ and do not walk by faith in Him.
This can be easily seen in how they flee from the light of the truth.
"For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed." - John 3:20
This happens because they do not have the imputed righteousness of Christ, which is by grace through faith.
They are actually walking in self righteousness, in unbelief, and lukewarmness.
"If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth." - 1 John 1:6
And many of them mistakenly believe that this conviction they experience is what guarantees them they are on the right path.
And it actually is the opposite, you would not experience a sin conviction when you are in Christ and consequently walking in the light of the truth.
"But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." - John 3:21
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." - Romans 8:1
"He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment... ...of sin, because they do not believe in Me..." - John 16:8-9
"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." - Romans 8:9
And I say: Repent, before it is too late!
"...Repent now everyone of his evil way and his evil doings, and dwell in the land that the Lord has given to you and your fathers forever and ever." - Jeremiah 25:5
Otherwise you will hear this from the Lord in that Day:
"And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" - Matthew 7:23
"Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness." - 1 John 3:4
"Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin... ...Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed." - John 8:34+36
"And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him." - Acts 5:32
God bless you all in Jesus' name!
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Aug 1, 2018 18:08:54 GMT -5
Just want to point out that one of the points of Calvinism is that if one point is wrong... its all wrong.
it is truth you cant loose your salvation. where did i put my car keys??? Lol. however, to ignore Gods Word that you can walk away, or go apostate, or abandon the faith is to ignore Jesus Christs warnings as well as many warnings found thru-out scripture. how is this wise? to ignore a warning... do not touch wet paint... oopsies. now you got to go get cleaned up. God always has our best intentions in mind. and He didnt say just believe and receive. He said repent. He said go and sin no more. He said Be Holy... as He Is Holy. He said walk in The Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. He said IF you do ALL i command Then I call you friends. Many people think if i only believe on Jesus all my sins are instantly forgiven. And when you have dealings with these people and you see what they do and how they speak where is the love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. Being humble and being repentant is not a one time thing, its a way of life. And thats what Jesus said... Life and life more abundantly. this speaks to quality of life, not duration of time. God wants us to live better. Something i learned way back about this.... In Jesus day it was common that when they gave 40 lashes with the cat-o-nine they actually only gave 39 lashes. it was believed 39 was mans limit and 40 would kill him. guess what... there are 39 types of categories of diseases in the world... this is modern science and medicine. and The Book says by His stripes we were healed. I do not say this to debate He got 39 or 40 lashes. I say this because in every way what Jesus did was for our sin and for our good. nothing that happened to Him was by error. He always does whats good for us. Jesus Christ said to abide in Him. Jesus Christ said not to turn away, or deny Him. The gospel is not a message of convenience. Loving God and following Him comes at a cost and is not easy to do. He does however Give us every tool to do this... If He did not He would not be a Just Judge. but He Is. And there is no excuse. God always honors His Word. His word and Holiness are above us. If anyone think s you can recieve the gift of eternal life and live that life however you want and Ignore Gods warnings, you are in danger of hell fire. God never lies.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 1, 2018 18:59:00 GMT -5
Now onward my friends , ONWARD in the LORD . And be looking diligently , lest any man FAIL of the Grace of GOD . paul knew . He told that church, but don't be highminded but fear , for is GOD spared not the natural branches , take heed lest he spare not thee. Continue in HIS GOODNESS, otherwise you WILLL be cut off. ONWARD into the trenches my peoples , THE LORD is with us and is our guide .
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Post by tlsitd on Aug 1, 2018 19:32:42 GMT -5
Once Saved Always Saved?
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Post by justinadams on Aug 2, 2018 4:30:17 GMT -5
I am afraid that Calvin was sorely in error. While he may have had some 'good' points, I suggest believers leave his works well alone. Also, many of the so-called reformers were also wrong - even Luther was anti-Semitic.
There is way to much justification of wrong-doings today, especially in some of the assemblies. It is the Lord's Church after all and we should be very careful of following any men or women that apparently have 'the anointing'.
No doubt the Lord High God has Mercy on whom He will have mercy at various times. If we examine ourselves thoroughly we will see that we all have the seeds of duplicity in our hearts. Following men is often a snare and feeds that duplicity often.
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Post by justinadams on Aug 2, 2018 6:25:37 GMT -5
And when I see these terrible sins. I am often thinking, 'there but for the Grace of God go I'. So my inclination is to pray for the victims AND the perpetrators.
Saw an old wartime B&W film last eve. The Hospital ship had been bombed by the Japanese. The captain had skilfully grounded it so most on board were saved. All the Australian Nurses were told to walk into the sea. Then they were machine gunned. Only one survived to testify later at a war tribunal. Such horrors are NEVER taught our children in schools. I suggest strongly that those that do not study history will repeat it in one form or another. Lately here the Israelis have been accused of being like the Nazis. What anti-Semitic rot!! Yet the mainstream media seems to like this kind of thing, and fuels these kinds of discourses. Will we ever learn??
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Post by tlsitd on Aug 2, 2018 7:26:08 GMT -5
I am afraid that Calvin was sorely in error. While he may have had some 'good' points, I suggest believers leave his works well alone. Also, many of the so-called reformers were also wrong - even Luther was anti-Semitic. There is way to much justification of wrong-doings today, especially in some of the assemblies. It is the Lord's Church after all and we should be very careful of following any men or women that apparently have 'the anointing'. No doubt the Lord High God has Mercy on whom He will have mercy at various times. If we examine ourselves thoroughly we will see that we all have the seeds of duplicity in our hearts. Following men is often a snare and feeds that duplicity often. I have not studied Calvin's teachings, or Luther's, (or any man's, besides the apostles' and Jesus Christ's), but I do know that Calvin taught the 'perseverance of the saints', which is the same as once-saved-always-saved, the teaching that a person who is truly born again cannot forfeit his or her salvation by any means, and that any person who does fall away from Christ (or is broken off of Him by God) was never truly saved. This is false. However, Calvin did teach predestination/election, which is correct. This is a Biblical doctrine. I don't know how closely his teaching about this subject agrees with what the Scriptures teach because I have not studied his teaching, and have no desire to. People have a problem with the doctrine of predestination/election because they think that it makes God evil or unjust or violates man's free will. It does none of these things, except in the minds of people who don't understand it. I never had any problem understanding this paradox, but I'm apparently rare in this regard. Romans 9 is perfectly clear to me. To me the rejection of predestination comes down to human arrogance---people thinking that God should be the way they want Him to be or do what they think He should do, and if what they read about Him doesn't agree with what they want to believe or they don't understand it, they bend the truth to suit them or just plain reject it. And this should never be done. At the very least, if we don't understand why God does something we should say, "Your ways are higher than ours; You are God, I am not," and leave it at that---not call Him evil or unjust because we don't understand or like what He does. That's not much if any better than the attitude of Job's wife. I don't know enough about the Reformers to say anything about whether they held antisemitic views or not, but I will say that the only thing that any Christian should give any heed or weight to when it comes to the teachings of men is what agrees with and is supported by the Scriptures (in truth), whether it is pleasant or unpleasant. If whatever Luther said about the Jews was Scripturally accurate (such as teaching that God recognized---and still recognizes---the Jewish nation as being primarily responsible for killing Jesus Christ---and not the Romans, or all mankind, for example), that is not antisemitism. That's simply a fact that a lot of people don't like because they think it will make people hate the Jews or because it makes the Jewish nation look bad. But the Bible is not about making people look good or making them look bad; it's about declaring the truth for God's purposes. People who use the Scriptures to make people look good, or to make people look bad, or to advocate or support the mistreatment of people, are abusing it. That's the fault of evil people using Biblical truth for evil, not of the Biblical truth itself. I personally don't view true antisemitism as being any worse than prejudice toward or mistreatment of any other people. I don't feel worse about prejudice toward Jews than I do about prejudice toward Arabs or some other people; but I know that many people believe that antisemitism is worse, because they think more highly of the Jews than they do of the rest of wicked, unregenerate, hell-bound, Godless humanity. I reject this bias, which is contrary to God's perspective and judgment. People who cry antisemitism over truth that makes Jews look bad, when the Jews have done something worthy of shame or denunciation, are no better than people who cry racism when a black thug gets shot by a white police officer while committing a crime, or when statistics show that black men commit more homicides in the U.S. than any other racial demographic, (and most of their victims are other black people). Facts aren't racist, and they aren't antisemitic. People need to stop trying to make themselves look good and trying to cover up their evil doings and concern themselves with actually being good and doing good, by the grace of God through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ; Jews included.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 2, 2018 10:20:54 GMT -5
SISTER lights you are spot on about that antisemetic thing . TRUTH does not make anything racial or antisemetic . And satan is the one behind it all. When he has any group in any church to gather based on the skin color of any race , its all wrong . We got white churches that frown on skin color and we got black churches that do the same . They make their race and its problems their focus. BUT THAT will divide any who sits under it . And either favoritism , or even hate will rise up . It honestly , honestly does not matter what race you were born , whether black , white , brown , jew , NONE are saved, LEST THEY BORN AGAIN and We are not to be divided over flesh color or ethnicity , race , region , family name or whatever . JESUS KNOWS his own , and his own no matter what they were once born, ARE NOW BORN AGAIN of the SPIRIT . Every race has the same problems , you got starving whites the same as starving blacks and all. OUR focus should never be on skin color . And we need to understand christains will suffer things in this world . I will tell you this sister , calvin was a very dangerous man . Do some research , he had men and women , KILLED . his state run church sure did . YOU RIGHT we don't follow men . And anyone who does speak , must be tested .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 2, 2018 10:23:42 GMT -5
You right sister lights the rejection of any thing GOD has done IS mans own rejection against HIM and trying to mold him to be as us . And sister , I bet you know that wont END WELL for those who do that . GOD created all , not man , thus LET THE WORD and SPIRIT change the man or woman who comes to CHRIST and let no man ever once try and change the image of GOD .
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Post by tlsitd on Aug 3, 2018 8:24:39 GMT -5
You right sister lights the rejection of any thing GOD has done IS mans own rejection against HIM and trying to mold him to be as us . And sister , I bet you know that wont END WELL for those who do that . GOD created all , not man , thus LET THE WORD and SPIRIT change the man or woman who comes to CHRIST and let no man ever once try and change the image of GOD . Amen.
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Post by tlsitd on Aug 3, 2018 9:09:57 GMT -5
SISTER lights you are spot on about that antisemetic thing . TRUTH does not make anything racial or antisemetic . And satan is the one behind it all. When he has any group in any church to gather based on the skin color of any race , its all wrong . We got white churches that frown on skin color and we got black churches that do the same . They make their race and its problems their focus. BUT THAT will divide any who sits under it . And either favoritism , or even hate will rise up . It honestly , honestly does not matter what race you were born , whether black , white , brown , jew , NONE are saved, LEST THEY BORN AGAIN and We are not to be divided over flesh color or ethnicity , race , region , family name or whatever . JESUS KNOWS his own , and his own no matter what they were once born, ARE NOW BORN AGAIN of the SPIRIT . Every race has the same problems , you got starving whites the same as starving blacks and all. OUR focus should never be on skin color . And we need to understand christains will suffer things in this world . I will tell you this sister , calvin was a very dangerous man . Do some research , he had men and women , KILLED . his state run church sure did . YOU RIGHT we don't follow men . And anyone who does speak , must be tested . Wow. That's terrible about Calvin. I really don't know much about the man; I just know a little about what he taught. Yes, the body of Christ, and the family of God, is one. There's no division or distinction between races or ethnicities, from God, as far as salvation and service to Him are concerned. There is one people, and there is one law for that one people, just as there was when God's chosen nation was Israel (and it's the doctrine of the New Testament, which is the law of Christ, for all who are in Christ, whether they be Jewish by birth or non-Jewish---not the law of Moses. Let the heretics crucify me for asserting this truth if they want to; it's not going to change the truth.) Those divisions that exist exist because of man's sinful nature and Christians with unspiritual minds acting according to the desires and attitudes of that nature (Galatians 5:20), not by God's will---which is the unity of the Spirit. Christians who believe otherwise need to get over themselves and get in tune and in step with the desires and attitudes of the Spirit of Christ. (1 John would be a good epistle for them to revisit.) (Of course, many of the people who claim to be Christians and yet hold prejudiced views---whether they be black or white or Korean or something else---are not actually born again; they're religious and "churched" but they're as dead as the rest of the unsaved.) For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew or Greek, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3:27-29) Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all. (Colossians 3:11) "Worthy are You to take the scroll and to open its seals, for You were slain, and by Your blood You ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and You have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth." (Revelation 5:9,10) After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" (Revelation 7:9,10)
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