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Post by justinadams on Aug 11, 2018 7:02:39 GMT -5
The Sabbath was given before sin. It is to celebrate and honor The Lord's Great Works of Creation.
It is the Lord High God's day that He encourages us to venerate and observe. It is the 7th day in any language.
It is sad that so many 'Christians' find so many EPIC excuses to ignore it. Truly amazing!!
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Post by tlsitd on Aug 11, 2018 8:09:35 GMT -5
I do not know anything about any early church fathers, nor have I read their writings. The 7 questions which I posed to you regarding Judaism and Christianity and the apostle Paul, which you have not answered, have nothing to do with any early church fathers but with what is written in the Bible, which is what my beliefs are based upon. Will you answer the questions? (From the Bible, please.) If you did not read about the church fathers, then you do not know the roots of the doctrines and translations you have learned from. That is why I answer you with much information so that you might see (before you judge me) what your understanding is based on and WHY most Christians think to go to their assemblies on SUN-day rather than God's Sabbath. We appear to be worlds apart, so my 'language' might not be readily understood by you. Too many use scripture like a blunt instrument and I do not want to do this. I have presented what I see as relevant so that to the world (the internet) we might appear to be thoughtful and considerate scholars and not of the ilk of the 'get rich quick' televangelists with all noise and no substance. Also, we need to be kind and considerate of each other - lest in pointing the finger, the three pointing back condemn us. We do have a very great cloud of witnesses. We must all give account of the hope that lies within us, but if you were to ACTUALLY READ what I post without a summary dismissal, it might give you pause to consider WHY I encourage study and scholarship. Test all things. I believe, by faith, that the canonical Scriptures are sufficient for all things pertaining to Christian doctrine and life, and my faith in them comes from faith in God's ability to preserve His word, not what scholars say or what science proves. Those Scriptures are the truth upon which I stand and rely, and I will not be persuaded to depart from those in order to 'expand my mind' with 'knowledge' that contradicts or undermines them. Again, this is a matter of faith, and God works with His truth. I do not know or care what scholars say about the Canon; I believe that it is entirely reliable and without error in its doctrine, that all of the apostles, including Paul, were apostles of Jesus Christ and none of them was a fake, writing out of his own mind, and that the canonical Scriptures are all that are necessary for me to use to live pleasing to God and also to do battle against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. If you do not share this belief, and do not stand upon that word in the same way, then we have nothing to discuss, for I will stand on that word by faith, regardless of what 'evidence' is provided me to discredit its reliability, and will answer you according to the same. The Holy Spirit supports me in this belief, and the fact that He works with this word is the only evidence I need that it is true, correct, complete, and fully reliable. I test all knowledge against the Canon, not the other way around. Those who believe and do otherwise will suffer for it, I'm sorry to say. The demons will wreak havoc on their faith---if they have true faith in the first place: Their contra-Biblical, extra-Canonical knowledge will prove to be a detriment to them in the end, as it already is a disadvantage to them spiritually, even if they believe they are illuminated by it. (May God have mercy on those so confused and deceived.) Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called "knowledge," for by professing it some have swerved from the faith. (1 Timothy 6:20,21)
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 11, 2018 8:50:14 GMT -5
The problem here is that Christians are beset from every direction with some new conspiracy, some new proto-gospel document, some new reason to launch the next Da Vinci Code investigation. If we listen to every scholar with a case against the Bible, we'll end up with nothing. Sure, each individual makes his case with much persuasion, but then along comes the next behind him. We need another translation! Another big project to articulate the NT as it was meant to be! But this will only last for six months or so. Any moment now we'll get it right.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Aug 11, 2018 16:46:58 GMT -5
The Sabbath was given before sin. It is to celebrate and honor The Lord's Great Works of Creation. It is the Lord High God's day that He encourages us to venerate and observe. It is the 7th day in any language. It is sad that so many 'Christians' find so many EPIC excuses to ignore it. Truly amazing!! The purpose of the sabbath is to enter into His rest. I have heard it all before about the sabbath, its monday, wednesday, friday saturday and sunday. I have heard we go to church on sunday because its the first day of the week and we are to give God our first... on and on. The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. some people work weekends and have to go to church on wednesday or monday. Saying its this day and this day only is starting to cross the line from liberty into legalism. Not trying to rain on your parade here, because i too have prayerfully studied things for a decade or more. and when i speak on those topics i am very passionate about them because of the investment i put in. but the fact remains, its about entering into His rest. ceasing from what wearies us, our labors, and keeping that day Holy because sin weighs us down too.
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
what is the difference between saying the sabbath is this day and if you dont believe it you believe an erroneous teaching and your "witness" will suffer vs saying you are only allowed to take so many steps on the sabbath?
I am not trying to say you are wrong, believe whatever day you want. Me personally i dont care, and here is why. The book never commands us to believe it was a certain day. its not a salvation issue. and even more, hypothetically, lets say i was swayed by what you say to being Jesus was risen on saturday, or whatever day... how will that help me? how will i be edified? will it bring me closer to Jesus? will i know Him more? what will be my gain? in titus chapter 3 it tells us to avoid things that are not profitable. and thats why i have withheld posting in this thread until now. My hope is that you read this and receive a deeper knowledge of liberty in Christ.
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Post by justinadams on Aug 12, 2018 3:52:52 GMT -5
The problem here is that Christians are beset from every direction with some new conspiracy, some new proto-gospel document, some new reason to launch the next Da Vinci Code investigation. If we listen to every scholar with a case against the Bible, we'll end up with nothing. Sure, each individual makes his case with much persuasion, but then along comes the next behind him. We need another translation! Another big project to articulate the NT as it was meant to be! But this will only last for six months or so. Any moment now we'll get it right. I agree. I am entirely sick of the 'ancient alien' theories and that kind of thing. Codes etc ad nauseum. As stated, I have studied this along with Messianic Israelis, and in ten years have got a lot figured out. Many Greek and Aramaic words and flavors leaned towards the current dogmas of the day. (anti-Semitic for sure) Read history to find out how long (in hundreds of years) it took for a consensus of canon was reached. Just use the canon and its all there. Do not follow Darby or the Scofield's translation. Just read KJV 1611. It is all there. Young's Literal is very useful as well along with some Greek dictionaries. (Check out the publication date of Young's.) Not exactly a later new translation. Most translators were quite liberal with their transliteration of Greek The ones that used the Aramaic (NIV) were a little more accurate and up to date. Remember - the Qumran finds were hidden for thirty years for some reason. And as stated: whenever I suggest Honoring The Lord High God on His Sabbath, well, the words fly fast and furious with all kinds of amazing excuses for them choosing to follow the Roman-Reformist view. I only hope they have better reasons when face to face with The Great I AM. And remember - Yeshua IS and WAS always the Great I Am - check out His Words at Gethsemane...
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Post by John on Sept 6, 2018 15:52:11 GMT -5
The problem here is that Christians are beset from every direction with some new conspiracy, some new proto-gospel document, some new reason to launch the next Da Vinci Code investigation. If we listen to every scholar with a case against the Bible, we'll end up with nothing. Sure, each individual makes his case with much persuasion, but then along comes the next behind him. We need another translation! Another big project to articulate the NT as it was meant to be! But this will only last for six months or so. Any moment now we'll get it right. I agree. I am entirely sick of the 'ancient alien' theories and that kind of thing. Codes etc ad nauseum. As stated, I have studied this along with Messianic Israelis, and in ten years have got a lot figured out. Many Greek and Aramaic words and flavors leaned towards the current dogmas of the day. (anti-Semitic for sure) Read history to find out how long (in hundreds of years) it took for a consensus of canon was reached. Just use the canon and its all there. Do not follow Darby or the Scofield's translation. Just read KJV 1611. It is all there. Young's Literal is very useful as well along with some Greek dictionaries. (Check out the publication date of Young's.) Not exactly a later new translation. Most translators were quite liberal with their transliteration of Greek The ones that used the Aramaic (NIV) were a little more accurate and up to date. Remember - the Qumran finds were hidden for thirty years for some reason. And as stated: whenever I suggest Honoring The Lord High God on His Sabbath, well, the words fly fast and furious with all kinds of amazing excuses for them choosing to follow the Roman-Reformist view. I only hope they have better reasons when face to face with The Great I AM. And remember - Yeshua IS and WAS always the Great I Am - check out His Words at Gethsemane... This seems like a bit of a departure from things you said before. Do you now see our Biblical canon as trustworthy? I know you were discussing the Sabbath, but I couldn't help but notice this.
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Post by justinadams on Sept 7, 2018 4:20:13 GMT -5
I agree. I am entirely sick of the 'ancient alien' theories and that kind of thing. Codes etc ad nauseum. As stated, I have studied this along with Messianic Israelis, and in ten years have got a lot figured out. Many Greek and Aramaic words and flavors leaned towards the current dogmas of the day. (anti-Semitic for sure) Read history to find out how long (in hundreds of years) it took for a consensus of canon was reached. Just use the canon and its all there. Do not follow Darby or the Scofield's translation. Just read KJV 1611. It is all there. Young's Literal is very useful as well along with some Greek dictionaries. (Check out the publication date of Young's.) Not exactly a later new translation. Most translators were quite liberal with their transliteration of Greek The ones that used the Aramaic (NIV) were a little more accurate and up to date. Remember - the Qumran finds were hidden for thirty years for some reason. And as stated: whenever I suggest Honoring The Lord High God on His Sabbath, well, the words fly fast and furious with all kinds of amazing excuses for them choosing to follow the Roman-Reformist view. I only hope they have better reasons when face to face with The Great I AM. And remember - Yeshua IS and WAS always the Great I Am - check out His Words at Gethsemane... This seems like a bit of a departure from things you said before. Do you now see our Biblical canon as trustworthy? I know you were discussing the Sabbath, but I couldn't help but notice this.
Oh yes. The various canons are just fine. They have a few noted 'political' and 'religious' biases built into the various translations. They are obvious and well defined by biblical scholars. (See my post about "mia ton sabbaton" to name one well documented 'mistake'.) There are also many other things coming to light in our present age as well. The LandSat opened up a whole new world of discoveries too numerous to mention. Archaeology has supported and confirmed all we know of .the Lord and then some. No matter how many detractors there are, they will never outrun TRUTH. Remember that nobody took Enoch seriously until the Qumran caves were discovered. There is much good commentary by the Essene sect as well. It is very likely that John the Baptist was conversant with this group of people as much of what he said tends to jive with their writings and flavor. Qumran was most certainly a God-incident and not an 'accident'. The Truth says, OBSERVE MY SABBATH AND KEEP IT HOLY. Simple. Spin it how you want, but the seventh day is God's Sabbath because He said it was. Every canon and The Tanach is very, very clear about this. As I have said before, many in the old Eastern Block survived many years with just one tattered copy of John's Gospel. It is NOT the words in black and white we worship, but the Living God Who made The Heavens and the earth. He has chosen to use many conduits for His truth. His Truth cannot be diluted either, so if you have one word spoken from the lips of the Lord High God, then you have enough. If you have every written word about Him, then you are still in that same place. Man shall never be able to contain the Lord of Hosts. His Spirit blows where He wills. He gave us intelligence. We need to use it and NOT be ham-strung by our own devices and doctrines and limited understanding. The RCC banned priestly marriage. It is inundated today with pedophile outrages. The Eastern Church did not ban marriage, how many Orthodox priests have been indicted? The so-called 'ancient alien' stuff is just a regurgitation of the various incursions due to angelic disobedience. It is plain that they wanted humans to worship them by the vast amount of Annanuki sandstone engravings in Mesopotamian folk-law and pantheons. There is a phenomenal amount of TV time devoted to this along with distorted scriptures. Because we never heard this from our pulpits, Christians turn a cold shoulder to those that wonder about all this. Also because they fail to read accounts of the fallen Watchers, they are ill-equipped to answer most honest questions in this regard. Hollywood has taken up this baton and run with it. It is not all fiction either. Watch the movie Prometheus to get a better take on this - the original screenplay had a very Christian theme.
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