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Post by tlsitd on Aug 9, 2018 13:05:34 GMT -5
As Christians, we are entering God's rest, the eternal rest of the new heaven and the new earth, which is our promised land.
But this world is not that land, and while we are here, we are called to work and to fight, not to rest. Our rest is promised to us in the life to come, but it should not be our expectation in this one. As long as we are in the body, we are to be working and fighting, not taking our ease. This is no place to rest. It is not the promised land, but a transient wilderness and a spiritual battlefield; and we must keep following our Savior through it and not settle here, and fight the battles along the way, in order to reach God's rest, which we are promised.
Throughout the New Testament, Christians are exhorted and warned to stay alert, to work, to fight, to run with endurance, not to become lazy or distracted in our sanctification or our work for the Lord, not to fall in love with the world, but to fix our minds on the world to come and our eternal inheritance.
There are no exhortations to sleep. There are no exhortations to play. There are no exhortations to take it easy. No; it's work, work, work---just like the people of Israel worked six days a week and rested on the seventh (Exodus 20:9,10)---we work all of our Christian lives, and we rest in heaven when we finish our course (not before).
If there remains a true, eternal Sabbath rest for the people of God, then we ought to be working now. The world is playing and sleeping, doing it's own will, which is what it lives for. Christians should be awake and working, doing God's will, which should be what we live for.
It is not the Lord who wants us to rest and take it easy here, but our own sinful nature and our spiritual enemies; and we must not heed either voice.
For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was He provoked for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? (Hebrews 3:16-18)
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from His.
Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. (Hebrews 4:9-11)
...Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. (Philippians 2:12,13)
And I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Blessed indeed," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!" (Revelation 14:13)
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 9, 2018 15:19:15 GMT -5
We are not of night nor of darkness; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation...But we request of you, brethren, that you appreciate those who diligently labor among you, and have charge over you in the Lord and give you instruction (1 Thessalonians 5:6-8,12)
The idea behind Christians at rest is that we no longer must earn our salvation. We have ceased from striving under the law. But I can't say I agree that this means we're at rest. The NT urges us to be fruitful laborers until we see Jesus. We're not laboring to earn righteousness, but we are laboring among the harvest.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Aug 9, 2018 15:39:03 GMT -5
Jesus has convinced me... Mar 6:31 And he said unto them, Come ye yourselves apart into a desert place, and rest a while: for there were many coming and going, and they had no leisure so much as to eat.
the bible says there is a time and place for everything under the sun. All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
its not good to work work work, and you can burn yourself out. I have seen good strong brothers work to much and it just burned them out. I have PTSD and i must pay careful attention to overworking whether physically or spiritually because i will become worn out and get frustrated and it does hinder my walk. taking a recess is sometimes the best thing for you.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 9, 2018 15:53:14 GMT -5
Cletus, I think we might be talking about two different things. Can individual Christians take a break when they are tired? Absolutely! Is the church in a state of rest from all its labors? Not by a long shot.
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Post by tlsitd on Aug 9, 2018 15:53:54 GMT -5
We are not of night nor of darkness; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation...But we request of you, brethren, that you appreciate those who diligently labor among you, and have charge over you in the Lord and give you instruction (1 Thessalonians 5:6-8,12)The idea behind Christians at rest is that we no longer must earn our salvation. We have ceased from striving under the law. But I can't say I agree that this means we're at rest. The NT urges us to be fruitful laborers until we see Jesus. We're not laboring to earn righteousness, but we are laboring among the harvest. Christians have never had to earn their salvation. Salvation in Christ has always been by God's mercy, by His grace, through faith. The only people who had to (try) to do works to be justified by the law of Moses were the people to whom it was given---the people of Israel. But even the saved Jews who were under the law weren't saved by the law, but by faith in God. We don't work to earn salvation; that's a free gift from God that we cannot earn. But we are called into a life of work---not of play, not of relaxation, not of living for ourselves and chasing after what this world has to offer, but of serving the Lord and doing His will for us, and of being sanctified, as well as spreading the gospel by word and deed. We're co-workers with God in our sanctification by our choices, which is the life-long work of Christians. And at the end of this work and service, we will rest, and will be rewarded on the day of judgment---if we finish our course. Jesus gave the people of Israel rest from the works of the law of Moses, which they were commanded to keep, and couldn't. Our law is not like theirs was (is); we have grace to keep the commandments of the New Testament, and Jesus Christ works with us to do all of His works, which God also gives us the desire to do by His Spirit. That is why His commandments are not burdensome to us, and why---unlike the yoke of the law---Jesus' yoke is easy, and His burden is light, because God enables us to do all things.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 9, 2018 15:55:02 GMT -5
I’m not saying I agree with the rest theory. I was only trying to explain it.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 9, 2018 15:57:04 GMT -5
The NT urges us to be fruitful laborers until we see Jesus. "For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
“Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;" - 1 Peter 2:21-22
"...Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?..." - Luke 13:7
"In response Jesus said to it, “Let no one eat fruit from you ever again.”" - Mark 11:14
"For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned." - Hebrews 6:7-8
"And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." - Matthew 3:10
But it says those which do not bear good fruit are burned... And what about unfruitful trees?!
If they produce no good and no bad, they are not producing good as well.
"He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad." - Matthew 12:30
"...without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." - Hebrews 11:6
God bless you all in Jesus' name!
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Post by tlsitd on Aug 9, 2018 16:24:13 GMT -5
Jesus has convinced me... Mar 6:31 And he said unto them, Come ye yourselves apart into a desert place, and rest a while: for there were many coming and going, and they had no leisure so much as to eat. the bible says there is a time and place for everything under the sun. All work and no play make Jack a dull boy. its not good to work work work, and you can burn yourself out. I have seen good strong brothers work to much and it just burned them out. I have PTSD and i must pay careful attention to overworking whether physically or spiritually because i will become worn out and get frustrated and it does hinder my walk. taking a recess is sometimes the best thing for you. Of course there is time to rest. I was referring to the purpose of our faith and our time here on earth in the OP. (And we never get a break from doing the Lord's will. That governs everything we do as Christians, including what we do for enjoyment or relaxation. Nor should we ever cease to remember that we are on a spiritual battlefield, at all times. We may not be under constant attack, but we are on a battlefield nonetheless, not a playground. We do not live in a neutral world; and we certainly don't live in a pro-God world.) I don't believe that God burns Christians out. I think Christians burn themselves out by doing things that either they themselves want to do or things that they believe is the Lord's will that really isn't the Lord's will for them to be doing. If we are following Jesus' lead, we won't burn out. We'll know when to rest, and when to work, when to take on more and when not to. If it is truly the Lord's will for us to do something, He will supply us with all of the mental, emotional, financial, physical and spiritual wherewithal to do it, and will also refresh us as necessary. If it's not His will, and we're doing it in our own power and of our own ambition (even with good intentions), we may get burned out.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 9, 2018 16:25:32 GMT -5
The idea behind Christians at rest is that we no longer must earn our salvation. We have ceased from striving under the law. Christians have never had to earn their salvation. Salvation in Christ has always been by God's mercy, by His grace, through faith. Such thoughts of "working to be saved" are dangerous and quite deceptive.
They lead Christians to indifference and being afraid of doing good works in Christ to please God...
and even lead them to practice sin here and there lest they are found of working to be saved.
It leads them to a spiritual indecision and a double minded attitude. Needs to make sure who you are serving and pleasing...
The thought that you are displeasing God by doing good works and trying to earn salvation followed by fear of condemnation by doing so is not from Him.
The only thing you should be aware of is:
"Let all that you do be done with love." - 1 Corinthians 16:14
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." - Galatians 5:6
"But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work." - Romans 11:6
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." - Galatians 5:18
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." - Romans 8:1
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." - Romans 8:2
"And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart." - Galatians 6:9
"And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him." - Colossians 3:17
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Post by frienduff on Aug 9, 2018 17:15:07 GMT -5
Sister lights is right . Many burn out , BUT NOT FROM DOING THE WILL OF GOD . NO if one follows Christ , they only on fire at all times . WE burn out by doing the things OF this world and its lusts and cares and pleasures in life . Lust will choke the word RIGHT OUT . IF people are getting burned out , ITS simply cause they fallen from the first love and desire SOMETHING ELSE or what they were doing , WAS NOT GOD LED , it was their own mind led .
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Aug 9, 2018 20:43:25 GMT -5
I hate to burst Yalls bubble on this but i have been involved in ministry where i did get burned out, and it was Gods will for my life. He put me there and there was no other door open in life for me at that time. but that door stayed open no matter what. I even tried to run once like Jonah, door was wide open still. the director of that ministry has said while i was there more people got saved than the entire history of that ministry. I did more work, physical work, i held more positions than anyone there... all Gods will. The scripture i provided is scriptural evidence against doing Gods will, will not burn you out. Maybe you never experienced it, but maybe you were not involved in a ministry like that. Just as in the scripture i provided, i had little time to even feed myself. I was so glad when someone else showed up that preached the gospel and prayed with people and they received Jesus as savior. shortly after he got there i got a break, once he was given enough time to settle in. its good to know your limits.
Pray hard, work hard, play hard, sleep hard.
this scripture shows you can get burned out doing Gods will: Mar 6:31 And he said unto them, Come ye yourselves apart into a desert place, and rest a while: for there were many coming and going, and they had no leisure so much as to eat. were they doing Gods will? I do not say this to argue but to share my experience. I think i do understand the point in the OP, not to be lazy or spiritually complacent, and not to get like that, but we are human and we do have limits. its not just because of lust or whatever. lots of needs out there but few laborers.
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Post by tlsitd on Aug 9, 2018 21:30:55 GMT -5
I hate to burst Yalls bubble on this but i have been involved in ministry where i did get burned out, and it was Gods will for my life. He put me there and there was no other door open in life for me at that time. but that door stayed open no matter what. I even tried to run once like Jonah, door was wide open still. the director of that ministry has said while i was there more people got saved than the entire history of that ministry. I did more work, physical work, i held more positions than anyone there... all Gods will. The scripture i provided is scriptural evidence against doing Gods will, will not burn you out. Maybe you never experienced it, but maybe you were not involved in a ministry like that. Just as in the scripture i provided, i had little time to even feed myself. I was so glad when someone else showed up that preached the gospel and prayed with people and they received Jesus as savior. shortly after he got there i got a break, once he was given enough time to settle in. its good to know your limits. Pray hard, work hard, play hard, sleep hard. this scripture shows you can get burned out doing Gods will: Mar 6:31 And he said unto them, Come ye yourselves apart into a desert place, and rest a while: for there were many coming and going, and they had no leisure so much as to eat. were they doing Gods will? I do not say this to argue but to share my experience. I think i do understand the point in the OP, not to be lazy or spiritually complacent, and not to get like that, but we are human and we do have limits. its not just because of lust or whatever. lots of needs out there but few laborers. The will of God may be very demanding on a person, and may even be overwhelming for a time, but not to the point of burning a person out, so that they can no longer function in doing that will when it is still His desire for them to do it. As long as it is His will, He will supply strength, and relief in His time, even if we feel that it's more than we can handle. That doesn't mean that the work will be easy, but God does not burn His servants out. He always supplies what is necessary to do His will for as long as it is His will for us to do it. He might even take us home in the process of doing His will, but not before it's His time for us to go, in which case it is not a premature departure on account of God failing to sustain us, but simply the end of our course, having completed what He desired us to do. Even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all. Likewise you also should be glad and rejoice with me. (Philippians 2:17,18) For we do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, of the affliction we experienced in Asia. For we were so utterly burdened beyond our strength that we despaired of life itself. Indeed, we felt that we had received the sentence of death. But that was to make us rely not on ourselves but on God who raises the dead. He delivered us from such a deadly peril, and He will deliver us. On Him we have set our hope that He will deliver us again. (2 Corinthians 1:8-10) For even when we came into Macedonia, our bodies had no rest, but we were afflicted at every turn---fighting without and fear within. But God, who comforts the downcast, comforted us by the coming of Titus... (2 Corinthians 7:5,6)
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 9, 2018 21:48:47 GMT -5
I can see both sides of the burnout debate. Last year when I prayed six months straight for my life to be spared, it was a huge battle. Lots of other people rallied around me. Prayers, encouragement, counsel, everything. When my answer finally came in December, I was done. Empty. Worn out. There were days when I literally had no energy to pray. It took a while before I returned to action.
I think sometimes it is His will to push us past our limit so we know we must depend on Him. Moses lost strength in his arms during battle, and men had to stand nearby to prop up his arms. The Bible doesn’t promise we will never feel exhausted. When Paul said he was poured out like water, I think he felt that. It didn’t stop him from doing what he needed to do, but I doubt it felt pleasant. We can rejoice in our trials even as we know they are trials.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Aug 9, 2018 23:18:39 GMT -5
I hate to burst Yalls bubble on this but i have been involved in ministry where i did get burned out, and it was Gods will for my life. He put me there and there was no other door open in life for me at that time. but that door stayed open no matter what. I even tried to run once like Jonah, door was wide open still. the director of that ministry has said while i was there more people got saved than the entire history of that ministry. I did more work, physical work, i held more positions than anyone there... all Gods will. The scripture i provided is scriptural evidence against doing Gods will, will not burn you out. Maybe you never experienced it, but maybe you were not involved in a ministry like that. Just as in the scripture i provided, i had little time to even feed myself. I was so glad when someone else showed up that preached the gospel and prayed with people and they received Jesus as savior. shortly after he got there i got a break, once he was given enough time to settle in. its good to know your limits. Pray hard, work hard, play hard, sleep hard. this scripture shows you can get burned out doing Gods will: Mar 6:31 And he said unto them, Come ye yourselves apart into a desert place, and rest a while: for there were many coming and going, and they had no leisure so much as to eat. were they doing Gods will? I do not say this to argue but to share my experience. I think i do understand the point in the OP, not to be lazy or spiritually complacent, and not to get like that, but we are human and we do have limits. its not just because of lust or whatever. lots of needs out there but few laborers. The will of God may be very demanding on a person, and may even be overwhelming for a time, but not to the point of burning a person out, so that they can no longer function in doing that will when it is still His desire for them to do it. As long as it is His will, He will supply strength, and relief in His time, even if we feel that it's more than we can handle. That doesn't mean that the work will be easy, but God does not burn His servants out. He always supplies what is necessary to do His will for as long as it is His will for us to do it. He might even take us home in the process of doing His will, but not before it's His time for us to go, in which case it is not a premature departure on account of God failing to sustain us, but simply the end of our course, having completed what He desired us to do. Even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all. Likewise you also should be glad and rejoice with me. (Philippians 2:17,18) For we do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, of the affliction we experienced in Asia. For we were so utterly burdened beyond our strength that we despaired of life itself. Indeed, we felt that we had received the sentence of death. But that was to make us rely not on ourselves but on God who raises the dead. He delivered us from such a deadly peril, and He will deliver us. On Him we have set our hope that He will deliver us again. (2 Corinthians 1:8-10) For even when we came into Macedonia, our bodies had no rest, but we were afflicted at every turn---fighting without and fear within. But God, who comforts the downcast, comforted us by the coming of Titus... (2 Corinthians 7:5,6) I was not aware the term burned out was used in reference to a permanent state? i have always heard and used it to have non permanent meaning.
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Post by tlsitd on Aug 10, 2018 7:40:49 GMT -5
The will of God may be very demanding on a person, and may even be overwhelming for a time, but not to the point of burning a person out, so that they can no longer function in doing that will when it is still His desire for them to do it. As long as it is His will, He will supply strength, and relief in His time, even if we feel that it's more than we can handle. That doesn't mean that the work will be easy, but God does not burn His servants out. He always supplies what is necessary to do His will for as long as it is His will for us to do it. He might even take us home in the process of doing His will, but not before it's His time for us to go, in which case it is not a premature departure on account of God failing to sustain us, but simply the end of our course, having completed what He desired us to do. Even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all. Likewise you also should be glad and rejoice with me. (Philippians 2:17,18) For we do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, of the affliction we experienced in Asia. For we were so utterly burdened beyond our strength that we despaired of life itself. Indeed, we felt that we had received the sentence of death. But that was to make us rely not on ourselves but on God who raises the dead. He delivered us from such a deadly peril, and He will deliver us. On Him we have set our hope that He will deliver us again. (2 Corinthians 1:8-10) For even when we came into Macedonia, our bodies had no rest, but we were afflicted at every turn---fighting without and fear within. But God, who comforts the downcast, comforted us by the coming of Titus... (2 Corinthians 7:5,6) I was not aware the term burned out was used in reference to a permanent state? i have always heard and used it to have non permanent meaning. I have felt temporarily "burned out" or "worn out" many times in my Christian life, but God has always eventually restored me and kept me going in doing what He wanted me to do. And as Candance said, I believe that God pushes us beyond our own strength in order to teach us to rely on His. We may get fatigued or even give up for a time out of discouragement or despair, but if it is the Lord's will for us to continue to do a thing, He brings us back and renews our strength, and gives whatever we need to keep going. It's a spiritual exercise to increase our dependence upon God and to teach us to trust Him more. When I think of a Christian being burned out I think of a person who just doesn't know when to stop or when to say no. They may be very eager to be involved in a lot of Christian activities or ministries of some kind, but it's not the Lord's will for them to be involved in them all (or even any of them); and they just keep taking on more and more---trying to do everything for everyone who asks them to do something, because they want to (but not because Jesus wants them to do this). So they wind up running themselves into mental and physical exhaustion, and even having health problems; but it's not because God exhausted them or wanted them to become exhausted, but because they didn't discern His will for them. My personal belief is that God sometimes allows Christians to burn themselves out so that they have to be still and spend time alone with Him, learning whatever it is He wants to teach them. There are people that just won't sit still, and they're so busy for God that they don't have time to get to know Him very well or learn what He actually wants them to be doing. So He stops them. What God wants more than doing (which is our natural inclination as humans) is the knowledge of Himself, the understanding of His will for us, and obedience to that. Any activity that springs from those things is appropriate activity; any activity that hinders that (even if the activity itself is good and does good) is not actually beneficial to us or God's desire, and He may put a stop to it, in order to work on those other things with us. It's not the quantity of our activities that matters to God but the quality of them---whether they are His will for us or not (gold, silver and precious stones, vs. wood, hay and straw); and His primary concern is our sanctification. Jesus spent most of His earthly life as a carpenter, and not a year of that time was wasted; John the baptist spent most of his life in the wilderness, and not a year of that time was wasted. If we don't let God do His work in us His way and learn to wait on Him, rely on Him, and follow His lead in doing His will, we're not going to be effective saints, or very Christ-like. Those lessons can't be learned if we're always busy with our own projects and undertakings, even if they are Christian in nature. So Christians who are like this might be sidelined by God in order for Him to teach and do in them what He desires and knows they need. And our sanctification is always God's primary objective, not what we do for Him, in terms of a ministry.
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