PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 25, 2018 8:38:08 GMT -5
Let me make one more effort to explain this.
Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
-- Matthew 12:31-32
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. -- 1 John 1:12
And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
-- James 5:15-16
Those who die without repenting have died in their sins. No one here disagrees with that. But we can repent. Jesus tells us we can even repent of attacking Him. People can reject the gospel and repent for it later. People (such as Paul) can go so far as to murder Christians and repent for it later.
If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.
-- 1 John 5:16
This is about seeing a brother in sin. Not a wicked person who hasn't repented yet. A brother in the church. After salvation, we can still stumble into sin and require repentance. Every sin can be repented of, except for one.
What is that one sin?
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation — because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”
As for your quote in John 20 about the disciples receiving the Holy Spirit... each of has a responsibility to contend for others to be freed and forgiven. We are told to pray for them, lay hands on them, witness to them, and forgive them. These actions bring about repentance in others. This is what John meant in 1 John 5:16. If we refuse to minister to people because we're angry at them, we're complicit in keeping them in bondage.
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 25, 2018 8:50:25 GMT -5
PG4Him watchful John frienduffThen would you need to ask everyone before preaching the gospel to them: Did you commit the unforgivable sin? Obviously, no.
Repentance comes from God, and no one can repent and walk in truth unless it is granted by God."...if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth..." - 2 Timothy 2:25Can those who said that and then repented be forgiven?! Yes, because if they repented it means they have not committed the unforgivable sin."to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God." - Ephesians 3:19The only way of blaspheming a spirit is in spirit."He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters." - Luke 11:23Please, understand this!
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." - John 7:24
That is why I said, one must be very selfish to reject all things God has to offer, in this case His love and His truth.As the devil chose himself, and consequently all that is good he also rejected. Because all good things come from God.In short, the devil killed himself for doing so."...He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth..." - John 8:44God bless you all in Jesus' name! Amen.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 25, 2018 9:07:04 GMT -5
Are you trying to tell us the Pharisees were in spirit when they attacked Jesus' miracle in Matthew 12? The sin we're talking about here keeps people from repenting because the Holy Spirit brings repentance. He's the one who moves our hearts to feel convicted. If you have pushed the Holy Spirit so far away from you (by viciously attacking Him) that He won't come close enough to move your conscience, you will never be inspired to repent. You're trying to give us circular logic that people can't repent of not repenting. That makes no sense. We're trying to show you what it is that causes people to be permanently, irrevocably unrepentant. As for your question at the start on whether we should ask folks if they've done this sin before we witness to them... even the best missionary out there will tell you there's no way to know who will receive and who won't. Stephen tore off a fiery sermon to his accusers before they killed him. He didn't pull back because it might be wasted effort. We witness to the lost, and we save the ones we can. That's it.
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Post by John on May 25, 2018 9:17:57 GMT -5
Are you trying to tell us the Pharisees were in spirit when they attacked Jesus' miracle in Matthew 12? The sin we're talking about here keeps people from repenting because the Holy Spirit brings repentance. He's the one who moves our hearts to feel convicted. If you have pushed the Holy Spirit so far away from you (by viciously attacking Him) that He won't come close enough to move your conscience, you will never be inspired to repent. You're trying to give us circular logic that people can't repent of not repenting. That makes no sense. We're trying to show you what it is that causes people to be permanently, irrevocably unrepentant. As for your question at the start on whether we should ask folks if they've done this sin before we witness to them... even the best missionary out there will tell you there's no way to know who will receive and who won't. Stephen tore off a fiery sermon to his accusers before they killed him. He didn't pull back because it might be wasted effort. We witness to the lost, and we save the ones we can. That's it. Exactly. We simply share the message of the gospel. There is no question what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is. It is attributing the works of God to the devil or just speaking against the Spirit.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 25, 2018 9:21:27 GMT -5
Anyway, I've spent as much time on this as I can spend. We're going in circles. Letters, you're still my brother and I love you, and I'm praying for you to richly blessed. But I honestly don't feel like discussing this any further.
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 25, 2018 9:36:20 GMT -5
Are you trying to tell us the Pharisees were in spirit when they attacked Jesus' miracle in Matthew 12? They would not repent, because they wholeheartedly rejected the love of the truth. This is what the devil did."For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins..." - Hebrews 10:26 Now, if you say if someone who ignorantly did that and when they repent and you say that their repentance is not genuine when all signs points to it.
Then it really means the person did not commit the unforgivable sin.
You people are trying to say that if the person says that, no matter how, they cannot be forgiven.
And this is not the case... As I said, the person must willfully reject the truth.
And as such act is of faith, with no doubting, repentance is impossible and the state is irreversible.
Just as when people ask in faith to be saved and receive the truth, they become born again, they cannot be lost anymore as they are now of the Lord's.
As I said, there are many warnings in encouragement in the New Testament because they are there because the Lord is revealing Himself to His sheep.
And the sheep can only receive Him if they have knowledge of Him. After knowing Him, they receive Him, by faith. And there is no way back.
There are only two sides, and we must choose one: Light or darkness.
The truth is that many is under decision... And if they do not make one... They will also be lost."He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters." - Luke 11:23
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 9:37:51 GMT -5
I still love you too brother , but I am in agreement with the others on this.....Jesus said in those passages what blaspheming the Holy Spirit means....and the definition of the word blaspheme in the bible simply means to SPEAK evil of, to revile....https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G987&t=KJV .......so blaspheming the Holy Spirit means to SPEAK evil of him, to revile him. Those who are lost have likely never even heard of the Holy Spirit to be able to blaspheme/revile Him. I understand what you are saying, but actually on this subject you seem to be mixing two separate and different problems together...blaspheming and rejecting Christ are two specific and different things, though of course they sometimes go hand in hand. I think also it is unforgiveable when it is done by those who should know better, who have the word of God.....unlike the lost.
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 25, 2018 9:44:48 GMT -5
I still love you too brother , but I am in agreement with the others on this.....Jesus said in those passages what blaspheming the Holy Spirit means....and the definition of the word blaspheme in the bible simply means to SPEAK evil of, to revile....https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G987&t=KJV .......so blaspheming the Holy Spirit means to SPEAK evil of him, to revile him. Those who are lost have likely never even heard of the Holy Spirit to be able to blaspheme/revile Him. I understand what you are saying, but actually on this subject you seem to be mixing two separate and different problems together...blaspheming and rejecting Christ are two specific and different things, though of course they sometimes go hand in hand. I think also it is unforgiveable when it is done by those who should know better, who have the word of God.....unlike the lost. I did all I could... I just pray that the Lord may give you all understanding of such matter.
Because of this I have absolutely no doubt.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 25, 2018 9:48:17 GMT -5
You people are trying to say that if the person says that, no matter how, they cannot be forgiven. You are blatantly misrepresenting us. A few pages ago, we all bent over backwards to say no one can mistakenly or accidentally do this. No one has to walk on eggshells in fear that they may do this any moment. We have made that very clear. The longer we go with this, the more it is devolving into bad logic and misrepresentation. I really see no reason to continue. Let us quit while we’re ahead.
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 25, 2018 10:00:27 GMT -5
You people are trying to say that if the person says that, no matter how, they cannot be forgiven. You are blatantly misrepresenting us. A few pages ago, we all bent over backwards to say no one can mistakenly or accidentally do this. I do not say of all of you, but if such was true to all, I wouldn't be hearing such comments, like the one below: why we must be careful of blaspheming the Spirit and speaking evil of dignities... If we walk in the Spirit, we won't blaspheme the Spirit. It is just impossible.
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Post by John on May 25, 2018 10:06:47 GMT -5
I have no doubt blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is speaking against the Holy Ghost. This isn't a situation where I am leaning one way or the other. This is settled with me. This is something I could see 30 plus years ago, and I have never wavered because it is so clear. You have to go to great lengths to make it say something else. When it goes to the point of saying that speaking a word against the Holy Ghost is unpardonable, I take that at face value. First he says blaspheme and then he says speak a word, like he is going out of his way to make sure everyone gets it. It is that serious.
It is my belief that if you committed the unpardonable sin, God will no longer have any dealings with you, therefore, you won't desire to be saved. If you want to be saved, you haven't committed that sin. On that point, everyone agrees. I am very careful not to be hasty in mocking a possible move of God. Someone speaking in tongues, praying for the sick, dancing in the Spirit, I keep my mouth shut. Even in more questionable things, like someone rolling on the floor, where I am skeptical it is of God, having had this warning, I am slow to speak anything critical. That is why I won't waver here. It is too serious of a matter to let this be re-defined into something it is not.
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Post by John on May 25, 2018 10:08:44 GMT -5
You are blatantly misrepresenting us. A few pages ago, we all bent over backwards to say no one can mistakenly or accidentally do this. I do not say of all of you, but if such was true to all, I wouldn't be hearing such comments, like the one below: why we must be careful of blaspheming the Spirit and speaking evil of dignities... If we walk in the Spirit, we won't blaspheme the Spirit. It is just impossible. Of course they won't if they are actually walking in the Spirit. To speak against the Holy Ghost would definitely be a work of the flesh. Christians have been known to get off in the flesh. Lets just heed to the warning and not speak against possible moves of God.
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 25, 2018 10:18:23 GMT -5
I do not say of all of you, but if such was true to all, I wouldn't be hearing such comments, like the one below: If we walk in the Spirit, we won't blaspheme the Spirit. It is just impossible. To speak against the Holy Ghost would definitely be a work of the flesh. Christians have been known to get off in the flesh. Lets just heed to the warning and not speak against possible moves of God. If the Holy Spirit is indeed in the person they cannot do it. As the Lord cannot lose none the Father gave Him. "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day." - John 6:39
Those who are the elect cannot and will not draw back to perdition. It is the Lord Himself that rules their lives, not the flesh. "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you..." - Ezekiel 36:26
"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them." - Ezekiel 36:27
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Post by John on May 25, 2018 10:35:32 GMT -5
To speak against the Holy Ghost would definitely be a work of the flesh. Christians have been known to get off in the flesh. Lets just heed to the warning and not speak against possible moves of God. If the Holy Spirit is indeed in the person they cannot do it. As the Lord cannot lose none the Father gave Him. "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day." - John 6:39
Those who are the elect cannot and will not draw back to perdition. It is the Lord Himself that rules their lives, not the flesh. "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you..." - Ezekiel 36:26
"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them." - Ezekiel 36:27The Father won't lose any of the elect, but a person can think they are of the elect and not be. You can have a professing Christian commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. I would imagine it has probably happened in some cases, but that it would be very rare.
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Post by John on May 25, 2018 10:39:26 GMT -5
I was at a tent meeting many years ago. The speaker was R.W. Schambach. He used to be on TBN quite a bit. Anyway, there was a man that came to his meeting and said he wanted to be saved but couldn't because he was guilty of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. He believed that sin was resisting the Spirit's call to salvation, and he said he had done it so long, he could no longer feel God. That is what can happen when you get bad teaching.
The sad thing was, the minister used this man to scare people into getting saved, but the poor guy was left thinking he couldn't ever be saved. I hope that after the service, he was led to the Lord, but I have no reason to believe that happened. I am happy for every soul that got saved that night, but the ends don't justify the means. I am convinced that this man could have been saved if he wanted to, and that God was dealing with him or he wouldn't have been there.
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