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Post by tlsitd on Sept 6, 2018 18:15:33 GMT -5
I did want to bring up one other point. Most of us are having fellowship and getting along just fine in spite of doctrinal differences. I am all for seeking the truth and trying to reconcile differences, but not so we can have fellowship, but so we can grow closer to God. You all don't have to agree with everything I believe for us to have fellowship, and I always believe I am right or I wouldn't say something. Who would come on here and deliberately teach something they know is false? We all believe we are right and God taught.
I just responded to this in another reply to one of your posts, but the point I have been making (or thought I was making) is that our fellowship can be improved, and that God wants us to be as unified in the knowledge and application of His doctrine as possible, so it should be our aim to try to achieve as much of that as possible, rather than just being content to disagree, again and again. Yes there can be peace and fellowship that way (agreeing to disagree), but I don't believe that's the ideal, but more of a matter of last resort if agreement can't be achieved. I think I explained the reasons why thoroughly in previous posts.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Sept 6, 2018 18:19:17 GMT -5
There is really only one way to come to agreement on fundamental doctrinal issues, which I believe spiritual gifts---the definition and use of them---is one of... The problem is that you want to base every tiny bit in Scripture.
It is not possible, especially when it comes to spiritual gifts.
I have read in many places, and people have very different understanding of gifts.
And all of them can be correct because spiritual gifts are very dynamic.
And despising other's experience on spiritual gifts is not going to help.
Spiritual gifts can be manifested in many ways.
Like, there is no Scriptural evidence of someone seeing demons or feeling something in their body prior to a revelation.
But I have read other's testimonies, including my mother's, and she is a very sincere Christian and I have heard from her that she could literally see demons in people's face.
That may be some form of discerning of spirits.
But how do we judge that?! Simply going to Scriptures and saying: It is not written. Then I am not going to say it is from God!?
We discern by the fruits.
She said that when such manifestation occurred it was to mean that the person was not yet freed from possession.
Then after they have made sure the demon was indeed cast out.
Are you seeing how complex spiritual gifts can be?!
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Post by tlsitd on Sept 6, 2018 18:27:22 GMT -5
Hello everyone. Including tlsitd . You're still my sister in Christ. The thing I want more than anything else is for us to grow and learn together as we all draw closer to our meeting with the Lord. If I may attempt to answer your challenge for practical guidelines... And yes, some of these are shots at myself... -- Two people disagree on a doctrinal issue. Both have Scriptures they brought to the table with a decent amount of thoughtfulness. Both seem genuine. They are genuinely looking through two different prisms. Someone is wrong, but it's a draw to say who. Option 1: I showed you the truth, but you're a petulant child who won't listen. (this is humorous hyperbole) Option 2: Your walk with the Lord and your life experience have led you to that conclusion, and I get it. You are resistant to fall for whims of doctrinal teaching you just heard about it, and I get it. We won't agree on this today. But perhaps allow me to show you the fruit of this teaching over time. You can show me your fruit, and together we'll see which teaching leads to better faith. -- Someone writes a scathing critique of my position, but I'm about to run out the door. Option 1: Skip over it in favor of something more important two hours later. Option 2: Quote the post with a short sentence to say, "hey I did see this and I want to reply, but I'm not sure when." -- I have to tell someone a fact which I know will set them off like a roman candle. Option 1: Here's where you're wrong. Option 2: So much of what you say is amazingly insightful. I've really come to admire the way you think. Surely you're brave enough to chew on this fact. -- The argument is edging toward personal judgment. Option 1: Forget everything you've said here that was brave and insightful for the past six months; I conclude that you are worldly. Option 2: Let me remember that thread last week when you went to the mat to defend me. Your friendship does mean something. I will resist the urge to insult you. -- Someone is using irresponsible words that hurt people when they're not meaning to. Option 1: How dare you call me that! Option 2: Maybe you don't know how that sounds when it leaves your mouth. -- Someone is totally, painfully wrong about an issue. Option 1: You're a liability. Option 2: Would the damage from your exit hurt more than letting you stay? -- Two people cannot reach a consensus. Option 1: Go to your prayer closet and get a clue. (this is humorous) Option 2: Let's meet in chat, or even on the phone, and actually pray together about unity on this thing. Maybe God will move with a prophetic word or something to break the stalemate. Yes! This is the kind of advice I was looking for. Thank you for sharing this. This is very good. I hope everyone reads it and considers it. Very good advice, sister Candance. I would print this out for myself if I had a printer.
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Post by John on Sept 6, 2018 18:29:24 GMT -5
I don't know if you recognize you are doing this or not Lights, but let me show you something about your last response. Lets suppose we were discussing tongues, and I came back at you this way...
The issue of tongues is so important, that I went to the trouble of posting scripture proving that tongues in the book of Acts is the initial evidence of receiving the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, and that it is a prayer language, not the gift of tongues and interpretation. I am sorry that you are unable to see that, simply because you are misusing scripture and always misapplying it based on what has to be doctrinal errors from past churches or personal feelings because you never spoke in tongues.
That is a pretty rough response isn't it? Wouldn't that make you feel bad, and like the other person is kind of arrogant and condescending? It is your error. It is you misapplying scripture. It is all on you to change, because the other person knows they are right. I am absolutely convinced you are wrong on the issue of tongues. That is not going to change. I did give scripture to back me up, a lot more than you did. Did you even look at it? Even though I am convinced you are wrong, does that mean that unless we can come to unity, which means you seeing it my way, we can't have fellowship? I don't feel that way, but you must make up your own mind about me and everyone else with a disagreement.
I see what you're saying. But I don't really know what the alternative is, except to say nothing at all. My reason for stating that a Scripture is misinterpreted or misapplied is because I know that it is, not because I'm being condescending. It would seem that way to a person who doesn't agree with me. If someone is wrong about something, I don't think that telling them so is mean (unless it's done with pride or malice or rudeness, which is not always easy to tell on a computer screen). I would imagine you tell people they are incorrect about various things, and some of them probably get upset when you do. That's sort of unavoidable. Even if you're as sweet as pie telling someone they're incorrect or deceived about something, it's going to smart. (You can refer back to the example I gave in my original response to you on this thread.) It's not as if I don't read what others post, but if they're posting the same Scriptures that I just responded to in another person's post and it took me three hours to reply to the last one, they're not likely to get a response from me. Most people have never prophesied. Does that mean that anyone who has never prophesied cannot judge a person who claims to be a prophet based on what the Scriptures teach about that gift? No. Most people are not apostles. Does that mean that they cannot judge apostles by what the Scriptures teach? No. Most people are not pastors. Does that mean that anyone who has never been a pastor cannot judge a pastor based on what the Scriptures teach about pastors? Obviously God knows that not all people have all gifts. He gave us His word as the standard by which to test all things, regardless of whether we personally have the gift or not. Anyway, that is why I suggested what I suggested in the OP, which as yet I don't believe anyone has added anything to in the way of practical suggestions. There is really only one way to come to agreement on fundamental doctrinal issues, which I believe spiritual gifts---the definition and use of them---is one of, because of how it affects other things, and that is for each of us to re-study the Scriptures carefully, without bias, with a good conscience toward the Lord, and without pride as far as we can discern ourselves, and ask God to give us the correct understanding of whatever subject it is. Hopefully He will, and whichever of us is wrong will come to see it. Until then, there really isn't any other option except to have cautious and delicate fellowship avoiding the issues upon which we don't agree. That's not ideal, obviously, and the point of the OP was that the fewer of these obstacles there are, by all parties being in agreement on the truth of what God's word actually teaches, the better the fellowship will be. It's possible to have fellowship with potholes, but the more of them there are, the harder it is, because sooner or later, you're going to hit one. And if you try to avoid them all, there's not that much you can say. Perhaps it is a bit of a personality conflict in the way you say things and it just rubs some raw. I understand you too, and I know you aren't meaning to come across in a bad way. I guess the difference in how I would handle something as opposed to you is I would state my case and let the chips fall where they may. You receive it or you don't. It is out of my hands when I have done my best. I can be convinced I am right, and still have fellowship with you, unless we are speaking of blatant immorality, like if we have a member who is involved in sexual immorality or something like that. Unless they repent, I can't have fellowship with them, but I can when it is just a matter of most doctrinal issues. Sometimes agree to disagree is okay with me. Maybe things will be made clear later on?
I am glad you didn't take offense to what I said, because it was just an example. I would never choose to speak to you like that as a normal rule. That kind of response hardens people, but I can see how you honestly weren't aware of that. By the way, I am in my 50s now, so I have seen a thing or two over the years, and I used to be a lot harder in how I dealt with others. It was a type of zealousness for God, but it never worked to change anyone. I won't lie to anyone about a spiritual matter to get along, but I won't beat people up and refuse fellowship with them because they don't believe as I do about the Sabbath day or acceptable types of Christian music or qualifications for a church office. Once you cut them off, you have lost them for good. That should always be a last resort, or at least that is how I feel today. I used to be quite different. There was someone that reminded me how I once said that I thought we should take all homosexuals and leave them on an island and blow it up. That was in my younger days when I hadn't learned the difference in hating the sin but not the sinner, and was carnal like the disciples who wanted to call down fire to destroy those that didn't receive them. Over time, we learn a better way, if we continue to follow the Lord.
Anyway, I am just trying to help, because you are of great value to the body of Christ, and I would hate to see you cut yourself off over things like you are upset over. It is not worth it, at least to me. Most of us like your anointed songs and appreciate your words from the Lord as you receive them. If you cut yourself off, it is like us losing a hand or a foot. We may go on, but we will lack something, and you will be all by yourself. Is that really what the Lord would desire? Just consider what I am saying.
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PG4Him
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Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 6, 2018 18:41:40 GMT -5
I think conflict resolution is part of the test. How you treat people when they make you angry. If you're nice because everything is going your way, you never know how deep the love really is. Jesus said there's no reward for loving people who are nice to you. We can get past this with a stronger commitment to making it work. It will protect us from wolves in the future.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 6, 2018 18:49:24 GMT -5
The sad thing is , SISTER LIGHTS has been so right on about everything she has said . And now the one thing she says we need unity on , sister i do love you , but you the one who is in error n this tongues thing. THE ONE thing i have ever seen you teach wrong . Everything else has been edifying as all get out . So sister , i don't know where you got this idea on this tongues . BUT I Know full well i spoke in tongues once . i know full well its real and not all can understand tongues . BUT If we examine acts . IT says HOW do we hear THEM in our own language . THE language is nothing but sounds to those who could not understand , ITS WHY they said THESE MUST BE DRUNK YET everyone who was the elect and came to GOD that day , said HOW we hear them speak in our own language , YET the unbleivers heard sounds and thought they were drunk. Tongues is real and yes it seems as babble sound . Its why paul said , IF those who are unlearned come in and hear this , WILL THEY not think you are MAD. This has been THE ONLY thing i ever seen you be wrong on . EVER. YET something is driving you to make you think we have to be on unity with this NO , i think something wants division and wants to DRIVE you out of here . SO really please let the tongues thing go .
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Post by frienduff on Sept 6, 2018 18:57:51 GMT -5
Sister lights . its the only thing i have ever seen you teach in error on , BUT I KNOW you FOLLOW THE LORD . And i aint going to cease company with you on this tongues issue . Now if you was teaching a sin , then yeah we would have a problem . But i know its you simply misunderstanding this . WE need to be careful who we listen to on vidoes . Your posts have been so edifing . right to the point no gray area. But leave this tongues things be , OR AT LEAST be ready to understand this may be the one thing you are in error on . AND SISTER i aint pointing fingers at ya , GOD JUST CORRECTED ME HUGE on my lack and overlooking things for unity . BIG TIME correction . So , all i am saying is , Tongues is real , i have spoken with it , not all do . its not a salvational issue . SO WHY even strive over it . Its different if ones are teaching false doctrine trying to lead souls into sin or error. But whether we speak or don't speak in tongues is not a sin its a gift or its one we don't have . Just heed this sister . I KNOW you have been misunderstood . I never once saw arrogance , pride in you . I saw one who was grave and serious and warnig . SO you right sister, its so easy to be seen as prideful , EVEN when we are not . But , just on this tongues thing . just cease with it . OR at least examine THE BIBLE for youself . i think you learned this from hearing about it BUT IF YOU read again the words of GOD , and see the examples in the bible . you will see it for what it is . Tongues is real . I don't examine tongues in a person or not in . I EXAMINE how said person is living and walking and what do they teach , TO DETERMINE if they true , false or just in error .
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PG4Him
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Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 6, 2018 19:00:20 GMT -5
The sad thing is , SISTER LIGHTS has been so right on about everything she has said . And now the one thing she says we need unity on , sister i do love you , but you the one who is in error n this tongues thing. THE ONE thing i have ever seen you teach wrong . Everything else has been edifying as all get out . So sister , i don't know where you got this idea on this tongues . BUT I Know full well i spoke in tongues once . i know full well its real and not all can understand tongues . BUT If we examine acts . IT says HOW do we hear THEM in our own language . THE language is nothing but sounds to those who could not understand , ITS WHY they said THESE MUST BE DRUNK YET everyone who was the elect and came to GOD that day , said HOW we hear them speak in our own language , YET the unbleivers heard sounds and thought they were drunk. Tongues is real and yes it seems as babble sound . Its why paul said , IF those who are unlearned come in and hear this , WILL THEY not think you are MAD. This has been THE ONLY thing i ever seen you be wrong on . EVER. YET something is driving you to make you think we have to be on unity with this NO , i think something wants division and wants to DRIVE you out of here . SO really please let the tongues thing go . May I suggest we let it go for now, in faith that one day God will move in our midst to bring everyone together? Dropping it now doesn't mean dropping it forever. Just long enough for grace to work.
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Post by tlsitd on Sept 6, 2018 19:05:20 GMT -5
There is really only one way to come to agreement on fundamental doctrinal issues, which I believe spiritual gifts---the definition and use of them---is one of... The problem is that you want to base every tiny bit in Scripture.
It is not possible, especially when it comes to spiritual gifts.
I have read in many places, and people have very different understanding of gifts.
And all of them can be correct because spiritual gifts are very dynamic.
And despising other's experience on spiritual gifts is not going to help.
Spiritual gifts can be manifested in many ways.
Like, there is no Scriptural evidence of someone seeing demons or feeling something in their body prior to a revelation.
But I have read other's testimonies, including my mother's, and she is a very sincere Christian and I have heard from her that she could literally see demons in people's face.
That may be some form of discerning of spirits.
But how do we judge that?! Simply going to Scriptures and saying: It is not written. Then I am not going to say it is from God!?
We discern by the fruits.
She said that when such manifestation occurred it was to mean that the person was not yet freed from possession.
Then after they have made sure the demon was indeed cast out.
Are you seeing how complex spiritual gifts can be?!I don't believe that everything that the Holy Spirit does has to be spelled out in the Scriptures in definition or example for it to be authentic. I have experienced what your mother experienced (not that that makes it valid for that reason) seeing demons in people's faces or sensing their presence in a person. I do believe it's a kind of discerning of spirits. I don't think that's classified as a formal gift of the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures (if it is I don't remember where), but that doesn't mean He can't enable a person to do it, just because He's in the person. I know that every authentic spiritual experience a person has isn't contained in the Scriptures. I don't think I would try to use Scripture to support the validity of those experiences of mine, because I don't think I could. I would just say, this happened to me and this is what I know or believe it was. People could believe me or agree with me or not. What I wouldn't do would be to say that that discernment is a spiritual gift. I would probably say that I believe the Holy Spirit sometimes enables me to discern the presence of demons, for whatever reason. I wouldn't use Scriptures about something else that really don't apply to that experience or ability to support that experience or ability. And I wouldn't accuse other people of blaspheming the Holy Spirit if they told me they didn't believe me because there's no Scriptural evidence that He does this. There really isn't any Scriptural evidence that He does this, that I know of; it's true. But it's real. So I'm not against considering spiritual experiences that aren't in Scripture, but I do believe that we should stick to the Scripture's definitions of things and not stretch them to accommodate personal experiences to which they really don't apply, and also that we should be very cautious about spiritual experiences that we do not have examples of in the Bible. Shortly after I got saved a demon did a "magic trick" in my apartment by turning a mop directly upside down from the position I had set it in to dry. I mean it was standing on its handle, propped up against the wall head-side up, and I heard a thump, and when I went to look, it was standing head-side down in the exact same position, as though someone had turned it around. There's no way the mop could have done that on its own. It defies the laws of physics. I tried to figure it out and couldn't. But I knew it wasn't an angel that had done it; I knew it was a demon, because demons do magic tricks like that. I could have attributed that little magic trick to some miracle of the Holy Spirit or an angel. But that's not what it was. So that's all I'm saying about spiritual experiences that aren't really supported by the Scriptures: Be extra cautious.
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Post by Abby-Joy on Sept 6, 2018 19:15:24 GMT -5
The problem is that you want to base every tiny bit in Scripture.
It is not possible, especially when it comes to spiritual gifts.
I have read in many places, and people have very different understanding of gifts.
And all of them can be correct because spiritual gifts are very dynamic.
And despising other's experience on spiritual gifts is not going to help.
Spiritual gifts can be manifested in many ways.
Like, there is no Scriptural evidence of someone seeing demons or feeling something in their body prior to a revelation.
But I have read other's testimonies, including my mother's, and she is a very sincere Christian and I have heard from her that she could literally see demons in people's face.
That may be some form of discerning of spirits.
But how do we judge that?! Simply going to Scriptures and saying: It is not written. Then I am not going to say it is from God!?
We discern by the fruits.
She said that when such manifestation occurred it was to mean that the person was not yet freed from possession.
Then after they have made sure the demon was indeed cast out.
Are you seeing how complex spiritual gifts can be?! I don't believe that everything that the Holy Spirit does has to be spelled out in the Scriptures in definition or example for it to be authentic. I have experienced what your mother experienced (not that that makes it valid for that reason) seeing demons in people's faces or sensing their presence in a person. I do believe it's a kind of discerning of spirits. I don't think that's classified as a formal gift of the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures (if it is I don't remember where), but that doesn't mean He can't enable a person to do it, just because He's in the person. I know that every authentic spiritual experience a person has isn't contained in the Scriptures. I don't think I would try to use Scripture to support the validity of those experiences of mine, because I don't think I could. I would just say, this happened to me and this is what I know or believe it was. People could believe me or agree with me or not. What I wouldn't do would be to say that that discernment is a spiritual gift. I would probably say that I believe the Holy Spirit sometimes enables me to discern the presence of demons, for whatever reason. I wouldn't use Scriptures about something else that really don't apply to that experience or ability to support that experience or ability. And I wouldn't accuse other people of blaspheming the Holy Spirit if they told me they didn't believe me because there's no Scriptural evidence that He does this. There really isn't any Scriptural evidence that He does this, that I know of; it's true. But it's real. So I'm not against considering spiritual experiences that aren't in Scripture, but I do believe that we should stick to the Scripture's definitions of things and not stretch them to accommodate personal experiences to which they really don't apply, and also that we should be very cautious about spiritual experiences that we do not have examples of in the Bible. Shortly after I got saved a demon did a "magic trick" in my apartment by turning a mop directly upside down from the position I had set it in to dry. I mean it was standing on its handle, propped up against the wall head-side up, and I heard a thump, and when I went to look, it was standing head-side down in the exact same position, as though someone had turned it around. There's no way the mop could have done that on its own. It defies the laws of physics. I tried to figure it out and couldn't. But I knew it wasn't an angel that had done it; I knew it was a demon, because demons do magic tricks like that. I could have attributed that little magic trick to some miracle of the Holy Spirit or an angel. But that's not what it was. So that's all I'm saying about spiritual experiences that aren't really supported by the Scriptures: Be extra cautious. All valid points. But had you not experienced it yourself, you might have been prone to say it was not from God. What I would suggest is to avoid accusing others of being in sin if they experienced something that you haven't... especially if their experience is able to be supported by Scripture. This is another suggestion on keeping unity and avoiding unnecessary disputes.
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Post by tlsitd on Sept 6, 2018 19:58:15 GMT -5
Sister lights . its the only thing i have ever seen you teach in error on , BUT I KNOW you FOLLOW THE LORD . And i aint going to cease company with you on this tongues issue . Now if you was teaching a sin , then yeah we would have a problem . But i know its you simply misunderstanding this . WE need to be careful who we listen to on vidoes . Your posts have been so edifing . right to the point no gray area. But leave this tongues things be , OR AT LEAST be ready to understand this may be the one thing you are in error on . AND SISTER i aint pointing fingers at ya , GOD JUST CORRECTED ME HUGE on my lack and overlooking things for unity . BIG TIME correction . So , all i am saying is , Tongues is real , i have spoken with it , not all do . its not a salvational issue . SO WHY even strive over it . Its different if ones are teaching false doctrine trying to lead souls into sin or error. But whether we speak or don't speak in tongues is not a sin its a gift or its one we don't have . Just heed this sister . I KNOW you have been misunderstood . I never once saw arrogance , pride in you . I saw one who was grave and serious and warnig . SO you right sister, its so easy to be seen as prideful , EVEN when we are not . But , just on this tongues thing . just cease with it . OR at least examine THE BIBLE for youself . i think you learned this from hearing about it BUT IF YOU read again the words of GOD , and see the examples in the bible . you will see it for what it is . Tongues is real . I don't examine tongues in a person or not in . I EXAMINE how said person is living and walking and what do they teach , TO DETERMINE if they true , false or just in error . I do believe that tongues are real, and I have no way of knowing what you spoke in. I wasn't there. The problem I have, as I said, is that the modern form of tongues-speaking that the Pentecostals popularized in Christianity at large beginning about 1900, wasn't a widespread practice of Christians before then. Then suddenly, glossolalia became extremely popular, with various teachings about what it is and what it does from the same Pentecostals. (Yes, I am aware that they use Scripture to support it.) So I think the problem is that people are applying what the Scriptures teach about tongues (xenoglossy) to glossolalia and saying that they're both included under the definition of tongues, thanks largely if not primarily to the Pentecostals and their influence, and their interpretation of Scripture. If the Pentecostals had never come into existence, I doubt glossolalia would be a thing today. It's not like no other Christians before them ever read the Scriptures about tongues, or that everyone was a cessationist before 1900. Women "pastors" weren't a thing until recently either. And Christians had been reading the New Testament for centuries before us. It's not that I don't believe in the gift of tongues, brother. It's just that what the Scriptures teach about this and what the Pentecostals teach about it and practice don't line up, even though they claim and think they do. So that's my problem with it. I have no way of knowing how many people have been influenced by that teaching either, and started practicing glossolalia because they were taught that they should, or were coached into it. But it definitely wasn't a phenomenon like it is today prior to the Pentecostals. I imagine that if I set my mind to do it I could learn how, but I have no intention of doing so. There are even schools where people can be taught to "prophesy", apparently. (Sigh.) Imagine if someone was doing magic and was calling it the working of miracles, and was using Scripture to support it. Well, that's not the working of miracles; that's applying a Scriptural term to something it doesn't actually apply to. I don't think that just because a Christian practices glossolalia that they're a spiritually inferior Christian. I don't think that has anything to do with their spiritual maturity in Christ, or that nothing they have or do is legitimate because they do this. I don't believe that all cases of glossolalia are demonic. I don't believe that all cases of xenoglossy (the few that there are) are of the Holy Spirit. (Demons can speak all languages too. They speak to people all over the world in their own languages.) And I'm not breaking fellowship with anyone just because they practice glossolalia. I'm setting the subject aside. I do think it's important, but for now I don't really think much progress is being made in coming to agreement on the issue based on what the Scriptures teach about it.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Sept 6, 2018 21:01:44 GMT -5
Let me be very clear, i am not speaking to doctrine issues. I am speaking to patents on being right and judgmental comments and self justification in doing these things.
When you want to say things like i dont have time for explaining it, how then do you have time to write such lengthy posts to start with? if something has importance you make time, not shrug it off.
I am done with sweet words. A spade is a spade.
I have stated my case, done so more than once and in the presence of others, only to be given a shoulder shrug. I am done with that.
The point to the scripture I posted is not to step on others toes in a i am better or my way is better attitude. If you cant see that then there must be a speck in your eye.
If you have nothing to offer than i dont have time then please do not find time to respond to this post either.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 6, 2018 22:14:23 GMT -5
Sister lights . I have long said , IF someone has to TEACH you tongues . YOU RUN and don't look back . I seen that doctrine too and I avoid it . WE don't learn HOW to , we either receive a gift or we don't . Every gift is given by GOD not learned from men . Not all will speak in tongues , not all are prophets , not all apostels . Cletus seems upset . I have no idea what went on before any of this . But if we could just all start over then we can keep an eye on all , and ensure that all things are done In agreement with HOW GOD HIMSELF desires . We just got to get past this already . Some of the folks at worthy have treated me like a dog and a beast. And some have falsely accused me or some have just flat our misunderstood . If we can just start over with the desire to really help one another , then even misunderstandings will get cleared up. If we fight and bicker nothing will get resolved .
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Post by John on Sept 7, 2018 6:17:46 GMT -5
There are just a couple of things I want to say about Pentecostal doctrines. They vary greatly from church to church. Like there are numerous types of Baptists and Methodists, there are a lot of people grouped together that are called Pentecostal, and they are not the same in practice or doctrine. You can't rightly group everyone together that speaks in tongues and say they teach false things, because everyone that speaks in tongues doesn't hold to the same doctrine, anymore than those who don't do not hold to the same doctrine.
As for why tongues and the baptism of the Holy Spirit was not seen in the modern church till the turn of the 20th century, that is easy to explain. Most of the church had been swallowed up by the RCC for centuries before the reformation. People were not seeking the baptism of the Holy Ghost and didn't know to do so. The reformation occurred, and people broke away from the RCC, but it wasn't until the Azusa Street revival that a group openly sought God for the Pentecostal experience. Once it happened there, others began to seek this infilling. To ask, why do we need it when we got along without it is like asking why we needed the reformation, when we could have remained part of the RCC? You see something is wrong or missing. It is not a salvation issue, but it is important.
As to seeing demons, I experienced seeing a demon one time in the room with me, but that was more than 20 years ago. It was like I was seeing it through spiritual eyes rather than with natural sight. It was a hideous looking thing. We know angels and demons are real, but we normally can't see them. They can be right in the room with us, but we usually don't know it. I know many people have, but I have never seen an angel, or at least if I did, I was unaware it was an angel. Other than that one instance, I have never seen a demon.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Sept 7, 2018 6:42:17 GMT -5
Let me be very clear, i am not speaking to doctrine issues. I am speaking to patents on being right and judgmental comments and self justification in doing these things. What I asked was whether anyone had any other suggestions besides the suggestion I gave in the OP about how to achieve greater unity here at Narrow Way by how we interact with each other, based on what the Scriptures teach about what God's desires are with regard to unity between Christians. (Ephesians 4:13-15) OK, you have an idea of what a prophet is or does. And I agree, but I just do not limit it in the way you say.
But it seems that you are simply reluctant to accept my views and adding what a prophet is or does on top of yours.
Then, I am stuck with your view and interpretation of what a prophet is or does.
Are you understanding what I am saying?! tlsitd Your defense is: I cannot go against my conscience and go against the Lord has said to me.
Well, if you are not open to receive any inputs from others unless they agree to you in all you say otherwise they are mistaken or misinterpreting Scripture.
Well, they all say they have also trusted in the Lord and that they learned from Him.
Then others can misinterpret Scriptures and you do not?!
If you insist in this pattern, the discussion will never end. Truth defends itself.
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