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Post by tlsitd on Sept 7, 2018 7:21:53 GMT -5
There are just a couple of things I want to say about Pentecostal doctrines. They vary greatly from church to church. Like there are numerous types of Baptists and Methodists, there are a lot of people grouped together that are called Pentecostal, and they are not the same in practice or doctrine. You can't rightly group everyone together that speaks in tongues and say they teach false things, because everyone that speaks in tongues doesn't hold to the same doctrine, anymore than those who don't do not hold to the same doctrine.
As for why tongues and the baptism of the Holy Spirit was not seen in the modern church till the turn of the 20th century, that is easy to explain. Most of the church had been swallowed up by the RCC for centuries before the reformation. People were not seeking the baptism of the Holy Ghost and didn't know to do so. The reformation occurred, and people broke away from the RCC, but it wasn't until the Azusa Street revival that a group openly sought God for the Pentecostal experience. Once it happened there, others began to seek this infilling. To ask, why do we need it when we got along without it is like asking why we needed the reformation, when we could have remained part of the RCC? You see something is wrong or missing. It is not a salvation issue, but it is important.
As to seeing demons, I experienced seeing a demon one time in the room with me, but that was more than 20 years ago. It was like I was seeing it through spiritual eyes rather than with natural sight. It was a hideous looking thing. We know angels and demons are real, but we normally can't see them. They can be right in the room with us, but we usually don't know it. I know many people have, but I have never seen an angel, or at least if I did, I was unaware it was an angel. Other than that one instance, I have never seen a demon.
I'm setting aside the subject of tongues for the time being, as I explained before, but I reject the claim of the Pentecostals that they restored something to Christianity that had been lost in practice for hundreds of years. They're not the only "restoration" movement that claims to have done this. I'm sticking to what I believe the Bible teaches about this, and all things, not any denomination's interpretation of Scripture that is one of its main tenets. The Anabaptists have their interpretations, beliefs and practices. The Baptists have their interpretations, beliefs and practices. The Pentecostals have their interpretations beliefs and practices. I'm not interested in what any church or denomination interprets the Scriptures to mean, I'm only interested in what the Scriptures actually teach, which I make it my business to search out and know for myself to the best of my ability, with the Lord's help. And I do not believe that the Scriptures support the Pentecostal practice of glossolalia as a manifestation or variety of the gift of "Languages" ("Tongues"), or the various things they teach about that glossolalia. There are plenty of things that Roman Catholicism imparted to the Christian religion that have unfortunately stuck with it (Christ-Mass and Easter being two of them). The Reformation didn't restore New Testament Christianity; in many ways it reformed Roman Catholicism. However, using that as justification for a particular group's interpretation of Scripture and the practices related to it is convenient for whatever any group teaches. The Seventh Day Adventists are very anti-Rome and do a similar thing. They teach that worshiping on Sunday was a practice begun by Constantine and that the Sabbath is the Christian day of worship according to Scripture, and that worshiping on Sunday is taking the mark of the beast. They "restored" the Sabbath, which they believe is important, and have various teachings about, and its one of their main tenets. I'm setting the subject aside for now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 7:35:07 GMT -5
Eph 4:2-7
With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Endeavouring to keep the UNITY OF THE SPIRIT in the bond of peace.
There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
But unto EVERY ONE OF US is given grace according to the MEASURE OF THE GIFT of Christ.
There is no mention of doctrine here. We cannot manufacture unity by our own efforts…..it’s a by-product of the Holy Spirit. The more we grow up into the Head, the more we are in the Spirit, the more unity we just naturally HAVE…..not make, but have. Fellowship is the same, it’s something we HAVE with one another by the same means. So fellowship likewise is not something we do or make, its something we have IN THE SPIRIT. The Body of Christ has many disagreements over doctrine, while still belonging to Christ and being Christians. If we are of one SPIRIT, in Christ, then we should have some degree of unity and continue being Christians in spite of having different understandings of doctrine. As long as we’ve got the foundation in common, there is much else of doctrine that has to do with growth. Much of the Spirit has to do with growth as well.
I think we just need to get over ourselves sometimes, you know?…..everything doesn’t depend on “me”. There is a bit of wisdom from Oswald Chambers that might be helpful with these things:
Living a full and overflowing life does not rest in bodily health, in circumstances, nor even in seeing God’s work succeed, but in the perfect understanding of God, and in the same fellowship and oneness with Him that Jesus Himself enjoyed. But the first thing that will hinder this joy is the subtle irritability caused by giving too much thought to our circumstances. Jesus said, “…the cares of this world,…choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful” (Mark 4:19). And before we even realize what has happened, we are caught up in our cares. All that God has done for us is merely the threshold— He wants us to come to the place where we will be His witnesses and proclaim who Jesus is.
Have the right relationship with God, finding your joy there, and out of you “will flow rivers of living water” (John 7:38). Be a fountain through which Jesus can pour His “living water.” Stop being hypocritical and proud, aware only of yourself, and live “your life…hidden with Christ in God” (Colossians 3:3). A person who has the right relationship with God lives a life as natural as breathing wherever he goes. The lives that have been the greatest blessing to you are the lives of those people who themselves were unaware of having been a blessing.
He has written something about holiness not being conscious of itself as well, which is also worth pondering…can’t find it right now or I would be glad to post it. Not being conscious of ourselves is a big part of what simplicity means, childlikeness and the simplicity of the gospel, the simplicity of Christ. Healing is also often a vital part of our journey of getting to that place of simplicity and unselfconsciousness.
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Post by tlsitd on Sept 7, 2018 7:38:20 GMT -5
Let me be very clear, i am not speaking to doctrine issues. I am speaking to patents on being right and judgmental comments and self justification in doing these things. When you want to say things like i dont have time for explaining it, how then do you have time to write such lengthy posts to start with? if something has importance you make time, not shrug it off. I am done with sweet words. A spade is a spade. I have stated my case, done so more than once and in the presence of others, only to be given a shoulder shrug. I am done with that. The point to the scripture I posted is not to step on others toes in a i am better or my way is better attitude. If you cant see that then there must be a speck in your eye. If you have nothing to offer than i dont have time then please do not find time to respond to this post either. If you would like to contact me by private message I will personally devote time to reading and responding to whatever you would like to share with me and trying to reconcile. It's offensive to use words like "given a shoulder shrug" in your post to me. You are implying that I intentionally snubbed you, and that is wrong, as is your judgment of my attitude: "I am better or my way is better". If that is how something (or things) I have posted has made you feel, I can respect that; but I do not appreciate being judged as proud or inconsiderate because of how you feel. I have replied to posts of yours as I have replied to others' posts, and I have already explained why I do not respond to every post. You have not been singled out. So if you would like to contact me by private message and discuss our differences, I will make the time to do so, because I do care about understanding you and about your feelings. Other members will have to understand that if I do not reply to their posts, it is because I am busy replying to you.
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Post by justinadams on Sept 7, 2018 7:52:03 GMT -5
<< (I do honestly feel like I'm speaking a foreign language sometimes.) >> Me too sister, me too. It does seem we're not hearing each other very well, so will just have to leave it at that. You be blessed. Remember that saying? "You did not hear what I thought I meant to say". A old man told his doctor, "I don't think my wife's hearing is
as good as it used to be. What should I do?"
The doctor replied, "Try this test first. When your wife is at
the sink doing dishes, stand fifteen feet behind her and ask her
a question. If she doesn't respond, keep moving closer, asking
the question until she hears you."
He went home and saw his wife preparing dinner. Standing fifteen
feet behind her he said, "What's for dinner, honey?"
Hearing no reply, he moved up to ten feet behind her and
repeated the question.
Still no reply, so he moved to five feet.
Finally he stood directly behind her and said, "Honey, what's
for dinner tonight?"
She turned around and yelled in his face, "For the fourth time,
I SAID CHICKEN, you deaf old fart!"
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Post by tlsitd on Sept 7, 2018 8:45:35 GMT -5
Eph 4:2-7
With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Endeavouring to keep the UNITY OF THE SPIRIT in the bond of peace.
There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
But unto EVERY ONE OF US is given grace according to the MEASURE OF THE GIFT of Christ.
There is no mention of doctrine here. We cannot manufacture unity by our own efforts…..it’s a by-product of the Holy Spirit. The more we grow up into the Head, the more we are in the Spirit, the more unity we just naturally HAVE…..not make, but have. Fellowship is the same, it’s something we HAVE with one another by the same means. So fellowship likewise is not something we do or make, its something we have IN THE SPIRIT. The Body of Christ has many disagreements over doctrine, while still belonging to Christ and being Christians. If we are of one SPIRIT, in Christ, then we should have some degree of unity and continue being Christians in spite of having different understandings of doctrine. As long as we’ve got the foundation in common, there is much else of doctrine that has to do with growth. Much of the Spirit has to do with growth as well. I think we just need to get over ourselves sometimes, you know?…..everything doesn’t depend on “me”. There is a bit of wisdom from Oswald Chambers that might be helpful with these things: Living a full and overflowing life does not rest in bodily health, in circumstances, nor even in seeing God’s work succeed, but in the perfect understanding of God, and in the same fellowship and oneness with Him that Jesus Himself enjoyed. But the first thing that will hinder this joy is the subtle irritability caused by giving too much thought to our circumstances. Jesus said, “…the cares of this world,…choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful” (Mark 4:19). And before we even realize what has happened, we are caught up in our cares. All that God has done for us is merely the threshold— He wants us to come to the place where we will be His witnesses and proclaim who Jesus is.
Have the right relationship with God, finding your joy there, and out of you “will flow rivers of living water” (John 7:38). Be a fountain through which Jesus can pour His “living water.” Stop being hypocritical and proud, aware only of yourself, and live “your life…hidden with Christ in God” (Colossians 3:3). A person who has the right relationship with God lives a life as natural as breathing wherever he goes. The lives that have been the greatest blessing to you are the lives of those people who themselves were unaware of having been a blessing.
He has written something about holiness not being conscious of itself as well, which is also worth pondering…can’t find it right now or I would be glad to post it. Not being conscious of ourselves is a big part of what simplicity means, childlikeness and the simplicity of the gospel, the simplicity of Christ. Healing is also often a vital part of our journey of getting to that place of simplicity and unselfconsciousness. I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I still think you're somewhat misunderstanding what I have been saying about this. There is holiness by virtue of our being in Christ, consecrated unto God and having His Spirit in us. But our practical holiness depends not only upon the virtues of the Spirit that come from His being in us, but also upon instruction from the Scriptures, which teach us how to live.
Jesus said, "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth." (John 17:17) That word is not merely the gospel, but everything that comes along with the gospel, which is the doctrine that instructs us in how to live that new life unto God. "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19,20)
Even with virtue, we have a choice to walk by the Spirit or according to the flesh; it's not automatic or guaranteed all of the time, which is why we are told to put the attitudes and desires of the one to death and live according to the other, and why Jesus told us to watch ourselves. Paul said he beat his body into subjection (not in an ascetic way), speaking about exercising self-discipline to live according to the Spirit and persevering in his obedience to Christ. That's not effortless.
Perhaps you think that by focusing on having right doctrine that you'll become preoccupied with words and rules and start living like a Jew under the Law of Moses and missing the forest for the trees somehow. That's what I'm getting the sense that you and perhaps others are thinking I'm encouraging.
Letting God work through us and and lead us and being adherent to correct doctrine are not mutually exclusive but complementary. God wants us to understand and apply His doctrine, because it is by doing that more and more perfectly that we understand Him better and know how to follow His lead. Otherwise, we will be following, more or less, what we think God wants us to do, and believing about God what we think He is like, rather than knowing the truth about these things.
Do you think I am an anxious, tightly wound person who is constantly thinking about rules? No, I am not. I am mindful of what the Scriptures teach, and the Holy Spirit guides me in applying them to my life. He works with our knowledge of His word. It's not effortless (I do have to be mindful of the word and of the will of the Spirit, and continue to read the word daily for understanding and instruction), but it's not self-preoccupied and self-powered either, but rather Christ-focused and God-powered. We work together, and I have both peace and joy in living for Jesus Christ, according to His word, though it is not necessarily the joy of pleasure or the peace of mind that comes from having things the way I want them. It is the peace and joy of knowing that I am doing what pleases Him and of delighting in what He delights in, of knowing that He is in control of my life and works in all things for the good of those who love Him, that He is my resource for everything, and that I have eternity with Him to look forward to.
His Spirit directs me to do, to remember, and gives me the desire to do, what He teaches me from that word. But I make the choice to study it and apply it; and He blesses me for doing so.
I don't believe that sanctification works while we're sleeping and doing whatever we want to do. God renews our minds with knowledge by teaching us His truth, which is His doctrine, and conforms us to His own likeness by the same (Ephesians 4:13-15). With our increasing knowledge comes increasing grace to live according to the same, and the desire to do so. This is a wonderful experience, and desirable, to one who truly reckons him or herself dead to him or herself.
But doctrinal knowledge can be intimidating or undesirable to us if we don't have this mentality as we should, because it comes with responsibility to apply it; and if we still think of ourselves as our own, even in a little way, this will not be something we desire to increase in, because we will see it as limiting our freedom. The truth is, no Christian is free. And the sooner we really comprehend that, and the better we hold on to that truth, the greater our joy in the Lord will be as we live for Him completely, because we won't see His will as a conflict with our will, but will rather desire Him to live His life more and more abundantly in and through us, and we will take joy in that, just as Jesus Christ Himself did in doing the will of the Father on earth. His Spirit lives in us to do the same.
...And He died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for Him who for their sake died and was raised. (2 Corinthians 5:15)
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. (Galatians 2:20)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 9:01:50 GMT -5
<< (I do honestly feel like I'm speaking a foreign language sometimes.) >> Me too sister, me too. It does seem we're not hearing each other very well, so will just have to leave it at that. You be blessed. Remember that saying? "You did not hear what I thought I meant to say". A old man told his doctor, "I don't think my wife's hearing is
as good as it used to be. What should I do?"
The doctor replied, "Try this test first. When your wife is at
the sink doing dishes, stand fifteen feet behind her and ask her
a question. If she doesn't respond, keep moving closer, asking
the question until she hears you."
He went home and saw his wife preparing dinner. Standing fifteen
feet behind her he said, "What's for dinner, honey?"
Hearing no reply, he moved up to ten feet behind her and
repeated the question.
Still no reply, so he moved to five feet.
Finally he stood directly behind her and said, "Honey, what's
for dinner tonight?"
She turned around and yelled in his face, "For the fourth time,
I SAID CHICKEN, you deaf old fart!"Brother, I'm not sure I like that that lady's way of responding (I would have said pot roast, heh)....but I get the point. And that flesh cannot hear the spirit and vice versa. Well, I'm content to leave it at that, and hope that iron is sharpening iron and that any seeds of truth spoken by anyone on this thread will eventually germinate, left in God's capable hands.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Sept 7, 2018 9:22:47 GMT -5
It's offensive to use words like "given a shoulder shrug" in your post to me. You are implying that I intentionally snubbed you, and that is wrong, as is your judgment of my attitude: "I am better or my way is better". If that is how something (or things) I have posted has made you feel, I can respect that; but I do not appreciate being judged as proud or inconsiderate because of how you feel. But it is true. You just keep on posting why others are wrong and why your interpretation or view is always correct and cannot be wrong by any means.
It really is frustrating. You are not open at all, you just want people to agree with you because you believe that your views are always right, and your interpretations are always right.
IT IS A TEST OF PATIENCE. AND I REALLY CANNOT BEAR IT ANYMORE.
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 7, 2018 9:38:32 GMT -5
More thoughts occurred to me last night which may be helpful to us as group. Everyone -- tlsitd , Cletus , 2fw8212a , Abby-Joy , watchful, justinadams , John , frienduff , and myself -- please consider my words here very soberly. We don't want Sister Lights to judge our personal experience. Fair enough. But on the other side, we can't expect her to change her whole paradigm because we tell her we had an experience ten years ago. I suggest that from now on, personal experience (or lack thereof) from a person on the internet does not count as proof. When we use ourselves as evidence, we open ourselves to inspection. It's one thing to have a powerful move of the Spirit in real life, and maybe we can build up to that, but for now we're on a discussion board. If a particular topic will set off a firestorm of six people coming at you with rebukes, maybe don't introduce that topic with a long, heavy novel. This sets up those who reply to you where they have spend an hour sifting through it. Then you have six novels you're expected to read in reply, and there's no time. This is my primary complaint about manifestos. They stifle friendly banter, drag people into the weeds, and suck all the oxygen out of the rest of the website. Perhaps introduce a controversial topic by asking questions or stating your position. Let people engage you in a dialog on how you reached your conclusion. Be transparent on whether you're posting to hear feedback or you're mostly posting to teach. This is for all of us. You've seen me in the past put disclaimers on my posts when I didn't presume to have the right answer. If that's the case, say so. If you know what you know and it's not up for debate, say so. Maybe that will discourage unwanted criticism. If an OP says up front that he/she isn't looking for a debate, don't reply with an argument anyway. Let like-minded people do their like-minded thing until your feedback is asked for. If you think the teaching is dangerous, reach out to an administrator. If you disagree but it's not a big deal, move on to a part of the forum where you can be more productive. Every rebuke/criticism should come with a compliment. No one likes getting beaten up. People should have the liberty to admit something without it being turned into ammunition. If you are not willing to invest the emotional energy in helping a person receive revelation, then don't yell at them for not receiving it. We all agree that knowledge must come from Spirit. Let's grease those wheels with some heart-felt effort. If you don't have time to do this, don't dump-and-run a whole novel for them to deal with. The time we spend writing novels might be better spent in chatroom gatherings. Find the good in every single person here, celebrate that good, and engage them on their good as often as you can. If something is a non-starter, leave it be until the Spirit moves to break the ice. Basically what I'm saying is, let's put our money where our mouth is. If we're dealing with the alive, powerful word of God that comes from spiritual revelation, then we should stop relying on academic lectures to impart it. I am an open book for everyone here. You want prayer, ask me to join you in chat. You're frustrated, I'll give you my ear. You can't imagine how I possibly function with such bad doctrine, get to know me. That's my offer. Much love to you all.
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Post by John on Sept 7, 2018 10:13:56 GMT -5
Those are good suggestions Candance, but on the topic of tongues, I did use scripture in another thread to back me up and could have used more if necessary. My views are based on scripture, not experience alone. The only person that didn't see it as I did that read and discussed it with me was 2f. We still have fellowship and get along.
I am happy to discuss tongues using scripture, not experience. I am happy to do that on any topic and offered to.
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 7, 2018 10:16:37 GMT -5
Those are good suggestions Candance, but on the topic of tongues, I did use scripture in another thread to back me up and could have used more if necessary. My views are based on scripture, not experience alone. The only person that didn't see it as I did that read and discussed it with me was 2f. We still have fellowship and get along.
I am happy to discuss tongues using scripture, not experience. I am happy to do that on any topic and offered to.
I know you did, brother. That paragraph was not for you.
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Post by Abby-Joy on Sept 7, 2018 10:22:36 GMT -5
Those are good suggestions Candance, but on the topic of tongues, I did use scripture in another thread to back me up and could have used more if necessary. My views are based on scripture, not experience alone. The only person that didn't see it as I did that read and discussed it with me was 2f. We still have fellowship and get along.
I am happy to discuss tongues using scripture, not experience. I am happy to do that on any topic and offered to.
Praise God! That is exactly as it should be... a very good example! \o/
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Post by tlsitd on Sept 7, 2018 10:31:30 GMT -5
More thoughts occurred to me last night which may be helpful to us as group. Everyone -- tlsitd , Cletus , 2fw8212a , Abby-Joy , watchful , justinadams , John , frienduff , and myself -- please consider my words here very soberly. We don't want Sister Lights to judge our personal experience. Fair enough. But on the other side, we can't expect her to change her whole paradigm because we tell her we had an experience ten years ago. I suggest that from now on, personal experience (or lack thereof) from a person on the internet does not count as proof. When we use ourselves as evidence, we open ourselves to inspection. It's one thing to have a powerful move of the Spirit in real life, and maybe we can build up to that, but for now we're on a discussion board. If a particular topic will set off a firestorm of six people coming at you with rebukes, maybe don't introduce that topic with a long, heavy novel. This sets up those who reply to you where they have spend an hour sifting through it. Then you have six novels you're expected to read in reply, and there's no time. This is my primary complaint about manifestos. They stifle friendly banter, drag people into the weeds, and suck all the oxygen out of the rest of the website. Perhaps introduce a controversial topic by asking questions or stating your position. Let people engage you in a dialog on how you reached your conclusion. Be transparent on whether you're posting to hear feedback or you're mostly posting to teach. This is for all of us. You've seen me in the past put disclaimers on my posts when I didn't presume to have the right answer. If that's the case, say so. If you know what you know and it's not up for debate, say so. Maybe that will discourage unwanted criticism. If an OP says up front that he/she isn't looking for a debate, don't reply with an argument anyway. Let like-minded people do their like-minded thing until your feedback is asked for. If you think the teaching is dangerous, reach out to an administrator. If you disagree but it's not a big deal, move on to a part of the forum where you can be more productive. Every rebuke/criticism should come with a compliment. No one likes getting beaten up. People should have the liberty to admit something without it being turned into ammunition. If you are not willing to invest the emotional energy in helping a person receive revelation, then don't yell at them for not receiving it. We all agree that knowledge must come from Spirit. Let's grease those wheels with some heart-felt effort. If you don't have time to do this, don't dump-and-run a whole novel for them to deal with. The time we spend writing novels might be better spent in chatroom gatherings. Find the good in every single person here, celebrate that good, and engage them on their good as often as you can. If something is a non-starter, leave it be until the Spirit moves to break the ice. Basically what I'm saying is, let's put our money where our mouth is. If we're dealing with the alive, powerful word of God that comes from spiritual revelation, then we should stop relying on academic lectures to impart it. I am an open book for everyone here. You want prayer, ask me to join you in chat. You're frustrated, I'll give you my ear. You can't imagine how I possibly function with such bad doctrine, get to know me. That's my offer. Much love to you all. Thanks for the input.
My own perspective has been that I invest as much time and thought and care into my responses to others that I put into what I post. I do sometimes write lengthy posts, but I also give lengthy responses, which is why I cannot respond to every post. I didn't realize that every member was expecting a personal response from me to what they post on a thread. I don't expect this from others when I post on other people's threads; and I don't assume they're snubbing me if they don't reply. People post what they post, they respond if they want to respond or have time to respond. That is how I have seen it. I apply the same view to what I post that I do to what other's post.
There didn't appear to be any problem with the length of my posts so long as the people reading them agreed with them. The problem arose when they did not. Then I became a proud, know-it-all, lecturer.
Why are my posts long? Because I'm a thorough person and want to include all of the information and Scripture I believe should be included, rather than adding things later as people respond. I read lengthy articles on the internet, and I agree with some things and disagree with others. I was assuming that others were reading my longer posts in the same way. I was not assuming that they felt like they had to respond to everything in the post. If they had a comment about one part of it, they would respond to that and I would answer them about that. If they had a comment about another part of it, they would respond to that and I would respond to that, and so on. And that was what was happening. I didn't give that much thought to the matter. Perhaps I'm not skilled in using a message board, but I didn't realize that the expectation was for posts to be a certain length or for the poster to reply to every person who responded or that those who responded were trying to respond to the whole post, rather than parts of it that they either agreed or disagreed with.
None of my threads are closed to debate, but how I respond and whether I respond is my discretion, as the Lord leads and time permits, as it is with all of the members here. I may agree with others' comments or I may not. That doesn't mean I'm not open to discussion of the topic. I might change my mind on something, I might not. That goes for anyone here and what they post.
I'll tell you, I don't give this amount of thought to the reading of other people's threads. I have my honest doubts about the length of my posts being the real issue here, although I concede that that does pose a practical challenge to responding to them, IF the other members really feel like they have to respond to every single point of whatever I post at once---which I doubt.
I think the bigger issue here is people's perceptions of me, and their feelings about what I post, not the length of my posts. If I wrote a lengthy post about something that most of the members here agreed with, I wouldn't likely hear a peep about its length or my tone or my attitude. I'm pretty sure of that. Tell me I'm wrong.
Whether I post something long or something short, if people have a perception of or opinion about me and are resentful toward me on account of that perception or opinion, whatever I post will be read through that lens. I'm open to changing my posting style, but I really don't think that's the problem here, and I'm pretty sure we all know it, as some have made their feelings known very clearly.
All I can say to that is what I've said already.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 7, 2018 10:31:49 GMT -5
Those are good suggestions Candance, but on the topic of tongues, I did use scripture in another thread to back me up and could have used more if necessary. My views are based on scripture, not experience alone. The only person that didn't see it as I did that read and discussed it with me was 2f. We still have fellowship and get along.
I am happy to discuss tongues using scripture, not experience. I am happy to do that on any topic and offered to.
I want to remind us all, lets not over think anything . the reason I say this is what I was reminded of in scripture itself when I read what our sister was saying . PAUL and them talked of how they walked among others . I don't see why we cant use personal experience , SO LONG as we use DOCTRINE first and foremost to also back up that experience . I would say and tell us , YOU Speak by what the SPIRIT leads you to say . and let all test what the other says . And let us remember that paul would speak things to the churches shame . Do I praise you in this , I PRAISE YOU NOT . rebukes can be sharp . SO LONG as the person doing it , IS SIMPLY DOING IT because they truly truly truly desire ONLY THE GOOD for the one or ones being rebuked . IF we just being sharp with no heart for the other , we in dire trouble . If I bring a correction , for example , or any exhortation and then I say things like , YOU figure it out , you beneath me , that is ice cold and something is wrong . INSTEAD I should bring the answer . WHEN GOD chastens and YEAH HE DOES , he will show the person their fault , he don't just say , YOU FIGURE IT OUT . So let us remember that we must keep the pattern JESUS SET , and YEAH HE was all out sharp in correction , JESUS gave the solution too. I mean HE Told peter, Get thee behind me satan . BUT HE DID NOT JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT . HE said , BECAUSE you favor the things that be of men and not GOD. We can be very grave and sharp , but remember , ITS for the welfare of others , not just for the sake of doing it . My advice is to each and all. WE start fresh in our bibles . and we flood the place with bible doctrine so as those good wholesome reminders will edify and sharpen the people . We got way too much thought in some places , and its true that some have things they have learned by doctrines of men , that needs burning out . HOLY SCRIPS and constant reminders in that bible , along with the grace of GOD who gives us a mouth , THINGS can be cleared up in time .
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Post by tlsitd on Sept 7, 2018 10:38:10 GMT -5
I'll add that I follow the Lord's lead to the best of my discernment in how I respond to others. I don't think complimenting people every time I give a criticism is appropriate or necessary, and any of the members here (if they are honest with themselves) know that I have given and do give appreciative and gracious responses, and that I agree with others just as I disagree with them, and am not just rebuking and criticizing people left and right.
I can deal with real faults of mine, but I can't change people's feelings. When people's feelings are offended, they tend to find fault. That's how people are.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 7, 2018 10:41:01 GMT -5
I am going to go use what Justin said in a parable on worthy . It just came so clear to me as I was reading the tale of WHO is really the ONE WHO IS DEAF .
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