|
Post by John on Sept 13, 2018 6:52:41 GMT -5
I have zero doubt it was God's will I get that house with a mortgage. Rent was not an option for many reasons, including the fact I had cats. This wasn't God allowing it. This was God's will. I stand by what I said.
|
|
|
Post by tlsitd on Sept 13, 2018 7:15:29 GMT -5
Rom 13:7-8 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. The sense we seem to receive from these passages is to come behind in nothing that is rightfully or legally due to someone…whether in the form of money or demeanour or duty. We are not to have the guilt (debt) of withholding what we owe that rightfully belongs to someone….and this is part of love. For example if someone comes behind in helping and supporting their aged parents who are in need they are now in debt the support and help that they owe their parents, ie, that is due to their parents…..and that would not be love. If you disobey your boss at work you are now behind and owe your boss the work that you failed to do. If a wife comes behind in respecting her husband, that is not love and she is coming behind and in debt (owing) in that particular sense and needs to get back up to speed in her attitude with him. I don’t see these passages as being a commentary or prohibition concerning borrowing money but rather it’s speaking of owing what is due in a larger sense. Edit: In other words if we love, we aren't coming behind and "owing" anyone any of these things. The bible says to lend to those who ask you, and it could be a fellow Christian who asks. And the Christian lender in that case should not expect it back and hold it over the head of the borrower in need…..however, a good Christian who borrows will of course consider that the money is owing and give it back if or when he is able to. Point being that the Lord would not have us be party to sin, so lending and borrowing can’t be sin if He has said we are to lend to those who ask. We are not under the Law but in the glorious liberty of the children of God and led by His Spirit. If the Lord leads someone to borrow money or take out a mortgage in order to buy a safe and stable place to say, raise your family, or provide shelter for missionaries, or for any number of reasons, then know that He would not lead us to sin. In my case owning a home with a mortgage has been the way God provided for us over many years. It’s hard to explain my circumstances, but it was through the increasing value of our home that we actually got out of debt that had plagued us ever since getting married, and also were able to buy things that we needed without incurring more debt. The Lord had spoken to me in dreams with instructions concerning our first house purchase and also the sale of our last house….and He provided the down payment for that first house. Kids are grown and now we are renting, as led to by Him.. (Please don’t get the idea that life has been a financial picnic…we have struggled a lot, faith has been tested and tried, and the provision was very much needed each time, but as I said it’s hard to explain everything..…the Lord is faithful. If only He would heal my ragged nerves now, heh 😊 …but even so, His grace is sufficient.) I think the confusion here is between Romans 13:6,7, which speak about paying all what is owed them (which is not referring to debt, but to things that we owe others by virtue of living in society which are not debt, as matter of respect or law or paying for services), and 13:8 which is referring to financial debt, not moral obligations of love. Owing no man anything has nothing to do with what Paul goes on to say about love; it's the conclusion of the subject he was addressing in verses 6 & 7---the civic and financial conduct of Christians. Paying honor and respect to others (verses 6 & 7) is not about love, but about honoring the authorities and officials, and anyone else to whom formal respect is due---as Peter also says in 1 Peter 2:17: Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor. Love is the fulfillment of the moral instructions of the law of Moses, but it is not the fulfillment of owing no man anything. Paul did not say: Owe no man anything BY loving one another, and so fulfill the law. He said, Owe no one anything, EXCEPT to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. What he says about not owing and what he says about love are not related. The word EXCEPT (or "BUT" if you use the KJV) is key here. Again, what he is speaking about in verses 6 & 7 and what he is speaking about in verse 8 with regard to "owing" are two different things: Paying all what is owed to them refers to things that are owed but which are not debt, and owing no one anything refers to going into debt. Owing someone something does not always involve debt. I owe the grocery store for my groceries until I pay for them, but I am not in debt to the grocery store. I'm simply paying for goods and services. And with regard to what the Lord said about lending---if you lend to someone without expecting anything back, you're actually giving, not lending. The nature of lending is that you expect repayment. If you expect no repayment, you are giving, not lending. God is the one you are expecting to repay you in heavenly rewards---which, being eternal, far surpass anything we could gain by keeping the money, or being repaid the same amount. (A discussion of this subject was created by sister Candance in the Finances forum.)
|
|
|
Post by tlsitd on Sept 13, 2018 7:37:43 GMT -5
I have zero doubt it was God's will I get that house with a mortgage. Rent was not an option for many reasons, including the fact I had cats. This wasn't God allowing it. This was God's will. I stand by what I said.
There's no way of knowing whether He would have provided you with a rental arrangement that was suited to your needs in His time. I can only stand on what I know about Romans 13:8, which is that it teaches that Christians should not go into debt---which includes mortgages, car payments, student loans, credit cards, etc. It really doesn't matter what Christians have done about those things and what has happened to them as a result. They still violated this teaching to have it, do it, or become it. God allowed it, but it wasn't His perfect will. So it is with many things that Christians do. Suppose we used the example of divorce. A man believes that it is God's will for him to divorce his current wife because they don't get along, and to marry a different woman who is better suited to him. His argument is that he can serve the Lord better with a supportive wife who loves the Lord than with his present spouse who stresses him out and distracts his mind from his spiritual pursuits. You point out to him from the Scriptures that it wouldn't be God's will for him to do this, but he is convinced that the Lord brought that other woman into his life to bless him and that his current marriage was a mistake. Relying on his "faith", he forges ahead with the divorce, and he and his new wife have a wonderful, happy life together, with a bunch of kids who all grow up to be Christians and to do great things, and the man and woman have some kind of successful Christian ministry that blesses many people. (Yes, there are some health issues and other crises now and then, but what Christian's life doesn't have those things?) So clearly, God blessed the man for his actions, and used it for good. It must have been His will after all.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 13:00:18 GMT -5
Rom 13:7-8 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. The sense we seem to receive from these passages is to come behind in nothing that is rightfully or legally due to someone…whether in the form of money or demeanour or duty. We are not to have the guilt (debt) of withholding what we owe that rightfully belongs to someone….and this is part of love. For example if someone comes behind in helping and supporting their aged parents who are in need they are now in debt the support and help that they owe their parents, ie, that is due to their parents…..and that would not be love. If you disobey your boss at work you are now behind and owe your boss the work that you failed to do. If a wife comes behind in respecting her husband, that is not love and she is coming behind and in debt (owing) in that particular sense and needs to get back up to speed in her attitude with him. I don’t see these passages as being a commentary or prohibition concerning borrowing money but rather it’s speaking of owing what is due in a larger sense. Edit: In other words if we love, we aren't coming behind and "owing" anyone any of these things. The bible says to lend to those who ask you, and it could be a fellow Christian who asks. And the Christian lender in that case should not expect it back and hold it over the head of the borrower in need…..however, a good Christian who borrows will of course consider that the money is owing and give it back if or when he is able to. Point being that the Lord would not have us be party to sin, so lending and borrowing can’t be sin if He has said we are to lend to those who ask. We are not under the Law but in the glorious liberty of the children of God and led by His Spirit. If the Lord leads someone to borrow money or take out a mortgage in order to buy a safe and stable place to say, raise your family, or provide shelter for missionaries, or for any number of reasons, then know that He would not lead us to sin. In my case owning a home with a mortgage has been the way God provided for us over many years. It’s hard to explain my circumstances, but it was through the increasing value of our home that we actually got out of debt that had plagued us ever since getting married, and also were able to buy things that we needed without incurring more debt. The Lord had spoken to me in dreams with instructions concerning our first house purchase and also the sale of our last house….and He provided the down payment for that first house. Kids are grown and now we are renting, as led to by Him.. (Please don’t get the idea that life has been a financial picnic…we have struggled a lot, faith has been tested and tried, and the provision was very much needed each time, but as I said it’s hard to explain everything..…the Lord is faithful. If only He would heal my ragged nerves now, heh 😊 …but even so, His grace is sufficient.) I think the confusion here is between Romans 13:6,7, which speak about paying all what is owed them (which is not referring to debt, but to things that we owe others by virtue of living in society which are not debt, as matter of respect or law or paying for services), and 13:8 which is referring to financial debt, not moral obligations of love. Owing no man anything has nothing to do with what Paul goes on to say about love; it's the conclusion of the subject he was addressing in verses 6 & 7---the civic and financial conduct of Christians. Paying honor and respect to others (verses 6 & 7) is not about love, but about honoring the authorities and officials, and anyone else to whom formal respect is due---as Peter also says in 1 Peter 2:17: Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor. Love is the fulfillment of the moral instructions of the law of Moses, but it is not the fulfillment of owing no man anything. Paul did not say: Owe no man anything BY loving one another, and so fulfill the law. He said, Owe no one anything, EXCEPT to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. What he says about not owing and what he says about love are not related. The word EXCEPT (or "BUT" if you use the KJV) is key here. Again, what he is speaking about in verses 6 & 7 and what he is speaking about in verse 8 with regard to "owing" are two different things: Paying all what is owed to them refers to things that are owed but which are not debt, and owing no one anything refers to going into debt. Owing someone something does not always involve debt. I owe the grocery store for my groceries until I pay for them, but I am not in debt to the grocery store. I'm simply paying for goods and services. And with regard to what the Lord said about lending---if you lend to someone without expecting anything back, you're actually giving, not lending. The nature of lending is that you expect repayment. If you expect no repayment, you are giving, not lending. God is the one you are expecting to repay you in heavenly rewards---which, being eternal, far surpass anything we could gain by keeping the money, or being repaid the same amount. (A discussion of this subject was created by sister Candance in the Finances forum.) The concept of debt and the forgiving debt and not being in debt in the OT was a type and shadow of sin and transgression and forgiveness of sin. In James 5 the apostle carried that similitude over into where he said to owe no man anything but to love them. He was basically saying to sin not against your fellow man whether by omission or commission, and that is walking in love. Remember Jesus’ parable of the master who was going to forgive the debt his foreman owed him, but then changed his mind and decided to forgive the man’s debt….etc.
|
|
|
Post by tlsitd on Sept 13, 2018 13:32:11 GMT -5
I think the confusion here is between Romans 13:6,7, which speak about paying all what is owed them (which is not referring to debt, but to things that we owe others by virtue of living in society which are not debt, as matter of respect or law or paying for services), and 13:8 which is referring to financial debt, not moral obligations of love. Owing no man anything has nothing to do with what Paul goes on to say about love; it's the conclusion of the subject he was addressing in verses 6 & 7---the civic and financial conduct of Christians. Paying honor and respect to others (verses 6 & 7) is not about love, but about honoring the authorities and officials, and anyone else to whom formal respect is due---as Peter also says in 1 Peter 2:17: Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor. Love is the fulfillment of the moral instructions of the law of Moses, but it is not the fulfillment of owing no man anything. Paul did not say: Owe no man anything BY loving one another, and so fulfill the law. He said, Owe no one anything, EXCEPT to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. What he says about not owing and what he says about love are not related. The word EXCEPT (or "BUT" if you use the KJV) is key here. Again, what he is speaking about in verses 6 & 7 and what he is speaking about in verse 8 with regard to "owing" are two different things: Paying all what is owed to them refers to things that are owed but which are not debt, and owing no one anything refers to going into debt. Owing someone something does not always involve debt. I owe the grocery store for my groceries until I pay for them, but I am not in debt to the grocery store. I'm simply paying for goods and services. And with regard to what the Lord said about lending---if you lend to someone without expecting anything back, you're actually giving, not lending. The nature of lending is that you expect repayment. If you expect no repayment, you are giving, not lending. God is the one you are expecting to repay you in heavenly rewards---which, being eternal, far surpass anything we could gain by keeping the money, or being repaid the same amount. (A discussion of this subject was created by sister Candance in the Finances forum.) The concept of debt and the forgiving debt and not being in debt in the OT was a type and shadow of sin and transgression and forgiveness of sin. In James 5 the apostle carried that similitude over into where he said to owe no man anything but to love them. He was basically saying to sin not against your fellow man whether by omission or commission, and that is walking in love. Remember Jesus’ parable of the master who was going to forgive the debt his foreman owed him, but then changed his mind and decided to forgive the man’s debt….etc. This is another case of conflating two different things, which I think I've explained enough on this thread, the best that I can (besides on the thread in the Finances forum). Owing no man anything, in Romans 13:8, isn't about love or the forgiveness of sins. It's just about financial debt. That command is independent of what Paul wrote about fulfilling the law of Moses by loving one another. (I'm repeating myself now, so I am going to remove myself from this discussion of this subject---at least on this thread.)
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Sept 13, 2018 13:38:34 GMT -5
Well , somehow we got on this subject . SO I may as well tell a lil story . I know a man who was saved by grace years back . And as we know the LORD puts the love of truth on our hearts . This mans prayer was not about money , was not about anything , but this . Oh Lord give me a heart that is pleasing to you , that I may walk by wisdom and understanding so that I walk humbly and pleasing unto you . This man I tell of , never asked for one material thing . It was by grace always grace to know how we should walk , grace to be able to help others get close to GOD . prophecy for the edification of the church . Yet God gave this man what he did not seek nor even ask for . He gave him a house , paid full out and it was another ones money . When this mans car broke down , he simply had the joy of the LORD and bought him a bike I pedaled it with joy . Never even asked for another car . AND yet THE LORD gave this man another vehicle , free. And the man by grace does thank the LORD , but understands it can be here one day and gone the next . AND YET even in a cave and on the run , The man knows , HE will have far more joy , just following the LORD . TRUE STORY .
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Sept 13, 2018 13:44:38 GMT -5
Prophecy not to look wise , BUT soley for the edifaction of the church . WHEN the LORD changes a heart , HE CHANGES A HEART and puts its desires ON HIM ABOVE . and greater joy can no man find or have , like one who simply follows the LORD . OH YES . You better believe its real . The only time I have not had joy , IS when I erred . But praise be to the LORD who corrects the sheep . OH every one here , knows that time it is ..................THROW THOSE HANDS UP and PRAISE THE LORD peoples . Their is no peace LIKE THE LORD can give , their is no abundant life , BUT IN THE LORD and the affections of abundance will not be earthly . OH the abundant life , IS SIMPLY KNOWING CHRIST , no matter what the cost , no matter what the loss . And greater faith awaits all, as our faith shall soon be tested like we have never had it here in the west . OH , but GOD knows . HE knows and no matter what comes against us , WE WILL REJOICE just like other lambs who were thrown in prison , beaten and even killed . DID . OH , their is no peace like KNOWING the LORD . OHHHHH their is the peace which passes all understanding . OH seek YE THE LORD with the whole heart , And Ye shall find Him . OH TO THE LORD be the GLORY and all praise .
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on Sept 13, 2018 15:29:45 GMT -5
Well , somehow we got on this subject . SO I may as well tell a lil story . I know a man who was saved by grace years back . And as we know the LORD puts the love of truth on our hearts . This mans prayer was not about money , was not about anything , but this . Oh Lord give me a heart that is pleasing to you , that I may walk by wisdom and understanding so that I walk humbly and pleasing unto you . This man I tell of , never asked for one material thing . It was by grace always grace to know how we should walk , grace to be able to help others get close to GOD . prophecy for the edification of the church . Yet God gave this man what he did not seek nor even ask for . He gave him a house , paid full out and it was another ones money . When this mans car broke down , he simply had the joy of the LORD and bought him a bike I pedaled it with joy . Never even asked for another car . AND yet THE LORD gave this man another vehicle , free. And the man by grace does thank the LORD , but understands it can be here one day and gone the next . AND YET even in a cave and on the run , The man knows , HE will have far more joy , just following the LORD . TRUE STORY . Brother Frienduff, let me ask you a small question on this. What if you were the one who God told to buy a house for someone else? What if God told you to buy a car and give it to a man on a bike? What if you were able to sit back, not letting your left hand know what your right hand was doing, and see the smile on someone's face because you put groceries on their porch? I'm here to suggest that every "met need" has a person God told to spend the money.
|
|
|
Post by tlsitd on Sept 13, 2018 16:52:27 GMT -5
Well , somehow we got on this subject . SO I may as well tell a lil story . I know a man who was saved by grace years back . And as we know the LORD puts the love of truth on our hearts . This mans prayer was not about money , was not about anything , but this . Oh Lord give me a heart that is pleasing to you , that I may walk by wisdom and understanding so that I walk humbly and pleasing unto you . This man I tell of , never asked for one material thing . It was by grace always grace to know how we should walk , grace to be able to help others get close to GOD . prophecy for the edification of the church . Yet God gave this man what he did not seek nor even ask for . He gave him a house , paid full out and it was another ones money . When this mans car broke down , he simply had the joy of the LORD and bought him a bike I pedaled it with joy . Never even asked for another car . AND yet THE LORD gave this man another vehicle , free. And the man by grace does thank the LORD , but understands it can be here one day and gone the next . AND YET even in a cave and on the run , The man knows , HE will have far more joy , just following the LORD . TRUE STORY . Brother Frienduff, let me ask you a small question on this. What if you were the one who God told to buy a house for someone else? What if God told you to buy a car and give it to a man on a bike? What if you were able to sit back, not letting your left hand know what your right hand was doing, and see the smile on someone's face because you put groceries on their porch? I'm here to suggest that every "met need" has a person God told to spend the money. I've given money to other people and bought groceries for people before. I had it to give and I believed it was something that God wanted me to do. I don't think anybody here is saying that it's wrong to have money. (I don't know whether you were suggesting that I or someone else was saying this.) Most of us have some, some more than others. It comes and goes. We do the Lord's will with whatever we have when we have it. If He gives us more, we give more. If He gives us less, we give less. But storing it up for ourselves and having more stuff is not the purpose of His giving us more, if He does, so a Christian who is doing that is being a bad steward of the Lord's money. As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life. (1 Timothy 6:17-19) For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have. I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness. As it is written, "Whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack." (2 Corinthians 9:12-15)
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Sept 13, 2018 18:10:46 GMT -5
Sister Candace . that is the POINT , I had no desire for money or gain . And when I have its only to share . not heap up , not build my house up or my kingdom . You know the worst deception we need to be on guard against is this next example . Their was Another man , HE said , LORD if I had more I could do more for you . He said , IF I had a new truck I could travel all over and evangelise in your name . He even went to ask others for money and help getting this truck so he could go evangelize everywhere . BUT when asked , by a name I wont mention , when asked Are you sure your heart is on fire for evangelizing . the man said OH YES OH YES its all I think of . So a man , WHOSE name I wont mentioned asked him this next question . DO you live in the country , way out with no one around . OH no the man said , I live in a cheap apartment , with lots of people around . And when this man , WHOSE NAME I wont mention , then asked , OH , so how many of them have you witnessed too............YA COULD HAVE HEARD A PIN DROP . NO , this dudes heart was on that truck and he was DECEVING himself like IF I HAD I would do . BUT JESUS said IF ya aint faithful WITH WHAT YOU DO HAVE , YEAH. That is what the GOT to watch out for .................OH LORD if I had this or that , I would do ................THAT is a deceptive mindset . IF we aint DOING now , WE WONT be doing THEN either .
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Sept 13, 2018 18:15:00 GMT -5
ALL we need IS CHRIST to win souls . Paul WALKED , they walked . THEY didn't ask the church to buy them a fancy decked out chariot so they could go witness. THIS prosperity gospel is a deception stemmed from hell itself . Because it really is about the love , the desire to have more , and folks DECEVE themselves all the time . Just like that man , WHOSE name I wont mention , By grace Exposed that other man . And he did it ever so kindly . Who knows maybe the man gave it some thought and later repented . BUt this I do say , that other mans heart was NOT on evangelizing , HAD IT BEEN he would have already been doing it with this two feet .
|
|
|
Post by tlsitd on Sept 14, 2018 4:23:10 GMT -5
I'm re-posting my response to BUTERO because I believe it's very important, with regard to the subject of this thread (faith), and potentially very beneficial to others. I see this to be a flaw in judgment on the part of some of the members here---and undoubtedly many Christians.
Now please don't miss the forest for the trees in reading this re-post, and get bogged down on the specific doctrinal subjects addressed in the post, rather than seeing and considering the heart of the matter and the bigger picture: What I am saying about those specific doctrinal subjects can be applied to any New Testament teaching; and the same error, for which I give an example, can be made regarding any of them.
This was my post:
I can only stand on what I know about Romans 13:8, which is that it teaches that Christians should not go into debt---which includes mortgages, car payments, student loans, credit cards, etc. It really doesn't matter what Christians have done about those things and what has happened to them as a result. They still violated this teaching to have it, do it, or become it. God allowed it, but it wasn't His perfect will. So it is with many things that Christians do.
Suppose we used the example of divorce. A man believes that it is God's will for him to divorce his current wife because they don't get along, and to marry a different woman who is better suited to him. His argument is that he can serve the Lord better with a supportive wife who loves the Lord than with his present spouse who stresses him out and distracts his mind from his spiritual pursuits.
You point out to him from the Scriptures that it wouldn't be God's will for him to do this, but he is convinced that the Lord brought that other woman into his life to bless him and that his current marriage was a mistake.
Relying on his "faith", he forges ahead with the divorce, and he and his new wife have a wonderful, happy life together, with a bunch of kids who all grow up to be Christians and to do great things, and the man and woman have some kind of successful Christian ministry that blesses many people. (Yes, there are some health issues and other crises now and then, but what Christian's life doesn't have those things?)
So clearly, God blessed the man for his actions, and used it for good. It must have been His will after all.
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on Sept 14, 2018 6:45:14 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I do understand Sister Light's conceptual argument. By no means should any Christian blatantly disregard an obvious Scriptural teaching to do what he wants to do -- and it's despicable to hide his ambitions behind a smokescreen of alleged prophetic mandate. I believe this is the essence of taking God's name in vain. Sometimes Christians do that. We ought not defend that type of behavior.
But then the question comes down to what Scripture teaches and how God applies it. The Ten Commandments say "thou shalt not kill," but God sent Joshua on a genocide campaign across Palestine, and He even punished Saul later for keeping livestock. We must be careful that we don't turn certain verses into stifling axioms that even God Himself cannot work around.
I do have one reservation about how far God allows sin to go in a Christian's life. Jesus clearly tells us we will know a prophet by his fruit. If the fruits of Galatians 5 are manifest in a prophet's life, then how can we disregard Jesus telling us to judge him by it?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 7:54:05 GMT -5
I'm re-posting my response to BUTERO because I believe it's very important, with regard to the subject of this thread (faith), and potentially very beneficial to others. I see this to be a flaw in judgment on the part of some of the members here---and undoubtedly many Christians.
Now please don't miss the forest for the trees in reading this re-post, and get bogged down on the specific doctrinal subjects addressed in the post, rather than seeing and considering the heart of the matter and the bigger picture: What I am saying about those specific doctrinal subjects can be applied to any New Testament teaching; and the same error, for which I give an example, can be made regarding any of them.
This was my post:
I can only stand on what I know about Romans 13:8, which is that it teaches that Christians should not go into debt---which includes mortgages, car payments, student loans, credit cards, etc. It really doesn't matter what Christians have done about those things and what has happened to them as a result. They still violated this teaching to have it, do it, or become it. God allowed it, but it wasn't His perfect will. So it is with many things that Christians do.
Suppose we used the example of divorce. A man believes that it is God's will for him to divorce his current wife because they don't get along, and to marry a different woman who is better suited to him. His argument is that he can serve the Lord better with a supportive wife who loves the Lord than with his present spouse who stresses him out and distracts his mind from his spiritual pursuits.
You point out to him from the Scriptures that it wouldn't be God's will for him to do this, but he is convinced that the Lord brought that other woman into his life to bless him and that his current marriage was a mistake.
Relying on his "faith", he forges ahead with the divorce, and he and his new wife have a wonderful, happy life together, with a bunch of kids who all grow up to be Christians and to do great things, and the man and woman have some kind of successful Christian ministry that blesses many people. (Yes, there are some health issues and other crises now and then, but what Christian's life doesn't have those things?)
So clearly, God blessed the man for his actions, and used it for good. It must have been His will after all. Lights, I don't at all disagree with what you are saying in PRINCIPLE, of course not. BUT please go and have a look again at borrowing and lending in the bible. It is taken for GRANTED in scripture that people are going to borrow and lend just as much as buying and selling are taken for granted. But the Lord has given GUIDELINES for all these things. And of course borrowing should not be undertaken irresponsibly or for sinful reasons. And I certainly agree in general that loans should not be considered as a source of artificial income, the way it is being treated by many these days out of covetousness. Jesus Himself said in Matthew 5:42 “Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.".........so how on earth can borrowing be a sin? Well I will leave it at that....just please go and have another look sister.
|
|
|
Post by tlsitd on Sept 14, 2018 8:34:34 GMT -5
The principle of that post is what I want to impress upon people: Not relying on experiences and results as "proof" of God's will and blessing, when what a person is doing contradicts or goes beyond the teachings of the faith.
And this is a tricky thing, because the human heart is naturally deceitful. A person can interpret Scripture to accommodate something that actually contradicts and violates the teachings and commands of the New Testament, and then use the success of whatever comes about as a result of that rebellion or departure as proof that his or her interpretation of Scripture is correct, or that his or her disregard of the Scripture in that matter is acceptable. But that doesn't make it so. The person is still actually being disobedient to God's word, and out of His will; and what God said to King Saul through the prophet Samuel still applies:
"Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to listen than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and presumption is as iniquity and idolatry." (1 Samuel 15:22,23)
The heart is key: If a Christian's heart is set on him or herself, in any matter, his or her understanding of doctrine will be impeded. If a Christian's heart is set on Jesus Christ, his or her understanding of doctrine will be better, and will continue to improve. We all need to make absolute sure for ourselves that our true desire is to do whatever is pleasing to God, above all, no matter what that is or what it requires, not to do what pleases ourselves while avoiding blatant sin. There's a big difference; and the two attitudes yield very different results in a Christian's faith walk.
|
|