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Post by Giller on Sept 28, 2018 7:42:09 GMT -5
Well here is maybe a word that Friendduff can add to his list of words.
This thread has become a yabadabadoo sensation.
Love it, guys would you think it ok to go to another fruit at the moment?
I was thinking about the fruit of temperance.
Gal 5:22-23 (22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, (23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 28, 2018 7:59:26 GMT -5
The LORD is plenteous in mercy and forgivness. And the Goodness of GOD leads to repentance . OH , let our repentance be the geuniune Spirit led repentance and not flesh led . For their is a major difference between the two . True godly sorrow will work repentance unto salvation not to be repented of but the sorrow of the world will cause only death . Therefore if any is in error , may they be corrected quick and heed the wonderous power of the Spirit which is called Holy and BE YE HOLY for HE IS HOLY .
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Post by frienduff on Sept 28, 2018 8:12:30 GMT -5
The fruit of temperance , OH how the fiery trials if taken patiently will produce this in earnst . Their is something that is spoken of in many a letter to the churches . Yet it is silent in many churches today . For not only is it given unto us to believe in Christ , but also to suffer for his name sake . The two will run hand in hand . For all who live Godly in Christ will suffer at least some kind of pesercution . the most common form is separation from company , they wont want us around . But REJOICE . The more severe forms are slowly beginning to even appear in America today . And soon enough will grow only worse . Let no man be fooled into this religious tolerance sham of a shame . We do not gather with other false religions for any reason. The fruits of many evangelicals will soon enough be reaped . For many are and have and will be given over to their hearts delusion . Make deals or have hope in men and prepare to be deceived . I see even one lamb or even hear of them joining in this religious tolerance and prepare for a rebuking . we don't rush to govt or other religions with hope we will not be persecuted . TRUST in that , and prepare to have the weapon burn right through he or she who does such a thing . I know many a believer who has prayed long and hard for a man to arrive who would safe guard us from persecution . BAD mindset . We are appointed unto it and deals have been made behind the scenes and also in the open for all to see , if they will but see . No agreeing even with this religious tolerance . It really is all a sham , to just get us to gather together with those we got no business being gathered with .
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Post by Giller on Sept 28, 2018 8:17:27 GMT -5
I guess I will start it.
(Strong's concordance)
(G1466
ἐγκράτεια
egkrateia
eng-krat'-i-ah
From G1468; self control (especially continence): - temperance.
Total KJV occurrences: 4)
To me it is like a ruder, were the ruder controls which direction to go, and it keeps things in balance.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 28, 2018 8:20:01 GMT -5
We can pray for leaders in office . THAT we can and should do , but let me see no man putting hope in any one of them . Their is an event going on , and its a major deception and it willcause many to let down their guard as they see only visions of peace and safety . OH , trust it NOT . its a major stumblingblock and it has been given . And why has it been given , for the evangelical church did not repent , it TOO grew worse , just as the liberals did some time back . WHEN false leaders praise with high reguards any man. When false leaders pray for years and prophesy falsely for years and then suddenly their hearts desire arrives , YOU BETTER BELEIVE its deception . YOU BETTER believe it . And jeremmiah knew that . Them jews were having visions and pipe dreams of peace and stability , YET only judgment was being prophesied by JEREMIAH. and now a word . TO the leaders of belial who have deceived the folks and to the folks who have loved to sit under these men, the very wooden yoke , YOU think your man is breaking off your necks , the very power behind the world govt WILL SOON ENOUGH be replace with IRON . What has been prophesied long ago will come to pass. Hope not in men , HOPE ONLY IN GOD . For these be Only the days of great deception . and the fiery trials will come ,let it produce patience and let patience have her work. And let none be deceived . BE ON GUARD . truly these be the days of deception .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 28, 2018 8:27:46 GMT -5
Temperance is the perfect next step after peace! How do we wrestle those uncontrollable tendencies into submission? Is it self-control, Holy Spirit control, or a combination? The plot thickens! Let me work on some detailed thoughts to share.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 28, 2018 8:29:11 GMT -5
Well here is maybe a word that Friendduff can add to his list of words. This thread has become a yabadabadoo sensation. Love it, guys would you think it ok to go to another fruit at the moment? I was thinking about the fruit of temperance. Gal 5:22-23 (22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, (23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. When I seen that word , the emergents , rick warrens and francis folks came right to mind . Perhaps we can define it . Yabadadadoo. To yabber on with doctrines not even fit to be called DOO . to dabble in things which cause only death and perdition . To speak winds of vanity unto the folks . Also to dabble in socery . To speak to the wind yet never realizing you will reap the world wind . Perhaps this can be used . Title it Rome and her daughters yabadabadoo mindset .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 28, 2018 9:51:50 GMT -5
Okay let's start on a technical note. Does that Greek word mean control or self-control? This is a huge distinction. Can we self-control our way into beating uncontrolled urges? How can self-control be a work of the Spirit in us? The Greek term at the core of this issue describes a sense of competence or mastery. It describes a person who is under control on the inside. It generally refers to self-control, but the self part is not required.
Don't tolerate any translation that uses the word moderation there. Moderation implies we can indulge a little as long as we don't go too far. That's not the sort of mastery described in Galatians 5. Throughout Paul's letters he described a very high level of self discipline. Like people who can walk past a chocolate cake and not even notice it. That's our ideal. Moderation doesn't come close enough. KJV's use of temperance is good because temperance is more like abstinence. When you see temperance or self-control in Galatians, you should think abstinence.
Scripture shows two scenarios for uncontrolled tendencies. One scenario is when you're in crisis mode. Temptation hits you hot and heavy. You can't rationalize your way out of it. You may crack under pressure, or you may get out of it. Then assuming you do get out of it, the other scenario is how to beat those weaknesses into submission for long-term success.
First let's deal with crisis mode. Human willpower can't beat supernatural lust (I'm using lust as a general term for carnal/fleshly cravings). As we discussed above, fleshly lust is a huge supernatural assault from the powers of this world. The fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden makes it clear to us in no uncertain terms that humans are sitting ducks in the fight between good and evil. We get steamrolled every time we deal with outright temptation alone.
Now let's revisit what James tells us. Here's how he brings up the subject:
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren. (1:13-16)
Lust will draw us away from the governance we're supposed to stay under. Our own lust -- the uncontrolled parts of ourselves we haven't crucified -- will kidnap us. The word conceive there means to apprehend. Lust will effect a change in our behavior which is lawless, reckless, and outside of God's will; in other words, sinful. This can happen whether we are Christians or not. Remember that James didn't write this to the wicked. His letter was a warning for believers.
The thing about confronting our "own lust" is that we can't beat ourselves. We can't make ourselves not want to do it. How do we get out of this crisis? James goes on to give us two solutions.
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. (1:21-22)
The engrafted word is that word Jesus spoke of in John's gospel to bring us unto the vine. The Holy Spirit surgically implanted that word in us to save our souls. We must receive it with meekness, meaning to shut our mouth and not argue. In times of crisis, we bring the word to life by doing what it says, even if we have to do it mechanically at first.
Later on James tells us this:
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. (4:5-10)
The default condition of an uncrucified human is bondage to a lustful spirit. Any part of us not brought to Christ will lust to envy eventually. This is a spiritual war, folks. What do we see here again? Humility. This echoes what James said about receiving with meekness. Shut your mouth, get over yourself, and fall at God's feet to beg for help. That's your only way out of this. If you do this, God will shield you, and the devil will see it's a losing fight.
The cross is the only thing your enemy is afraid of. Let me repeat that. The cross is the only thing your enemy is afraid of. He isn't impressed by your willpower, your cleverness, or anything else. Receive that ingrafted word and draw nigh to God.
This is step one in ending a crisis. Later on I'll post more thoughts on long-term control.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 28, 2018 13:44:58 GMT -5
2 Peter is one of the most important epistles. It's a crime how much this epistle is overlooked. Behold what Peter reveals to us in a very short space:
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (1:3-4)
You think Peter only meant sexual lust here? I highly doubt it. Lust is a disease that corrupts this world. We can only rise above it by partaking in Jesus's supernatural divine nature. When we actually realize what Jesus promises to give us, we see why Peter called it exceedingly great.
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. (1:5-7)
God deposits a measure of faith in each Christian (Romans 12:3). You can let your faith sit there like a paperweight, or you can develop it (James 2). Peter is telling us to give all diligence -- make it our mission -- to supply our faith with virtue. He doesn't say Jesus will magically produce virtue in us. He orders us to get busy adding virtue to our faith. Whatever we have inside of us that may be good or well-intentioned, we must bring it forward to conform it to our faith.
Only when our virtue is bound to our faith do we dare approach knowledge. A little bit of knowledge in the wrong hands can be deadly. We must subject our knowledge to virtuous living in the faith of Christ. Any knowledge that pulls us away from that foundation should be rejected. This knowledge, the true knowledge of His divine nature at work in our lives, introduces temperance. We dare not indulge a lustful impulse that will unravel our progress. Then -- only when His faithful virtue and knowledge are beating back our impulses -- can we manage to walk in patience.
Then we see that brotherly affection we spoke of earlier. Misdirected affection can get us in trouble. Peter is saying here that affection is a good thing, but only when it's been tested in the fires of faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, and godliness. These things produce in us a kind of supernatural brotherly affection. Now we're on the road to 1 Corinthians 13.
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. (8-9)
This is the difference between a fruitful Christian and an unfruitful Christian. Every Christian gets that flash of knowledge on who Jesus is. Every Christian says Jesus is Lord. But this knowledge will remain unfruitful if we don't get busy on the chain reaction Peter laid out for us. A Christian can actually be purged of his old sins, probably be quite thankful for it, but then never get around to using any elbow grease on his development, and end up blind.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. (10-11)
If you do these things, you will never fail. Only a Christian who has endeavored toward sober, temperate godly affection is safe from failure. Now an entrance is ministered to us into His everlasting Kingdom.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 28, 2018 14:10:55 GMT -5
Now that we see how high the stakes are, we can appreciate the Bible's urgency on the subject of temperance and self-discipline.
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (Matthew 5:30)
And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (1 Corinthians 9:25-27)
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled. (2 Corinthians 10:5-6)
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. (Romans 6:12-13)
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. (1 Peter 1:13-16)
You will notice in all of these statements that we are being ordered to act on ourselves. None of this is passive. Jesus makes available to us all the faith, power, and knowledge we need for success. We cannot boast in our works for salvation. We can't take any credit for the cross. But we better get busy making sure we don't squander His gift.
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Post by John on Sept 28, 2018 16:05:15 GMT -5
This has been a good, thought provoking thread. To me, temperance is self-control, but that is not something that comes naturally. That is not something our flesh desires. Our flesh wants what it wants when it wants it and as much as it wants. Thinking about that piece of cake analogy, the eyes see the cake, and the mind thinks that it looks delicious, and that I must have it. The mouth starts to water. The stomach starts to growl, as if demanding that you start eating it. You begin to partake, and the taste buds tell you how good it tastes. You eat till you have had enough, but that taste is so good, you don't stop. Before you know it, you have eaten half the cake, and are miserable and sipping on a glass of Alka-Seltzer. Ever experienced that? I have. That is lack of temperance. Temperance is a fruit of the Spirit.
It is not okay to be temperate when it comes to sin. A little sin is never okay. I was thinking about this old pop song from the 80s, and one of the lines was, "I'm just an average guy, I fooled around a little on the side." In the song, you are under the impression a little fooling around is normal and natural, and he only got in trouble when he fell in love with the other woman. Then it became a full blown affair and that was wrong! Temperance isn't okay when it comes to sin. What I take this to mean is that you are to be temperate in areas where something is not sinful, but can become sinful, like in the cake analogy. There is no sin in enjoying a slice of cake, but it can become gluttony. You could do this with other things like a glass of wine with a meal. No sin there. Jesus turned water into wine, but this can become a sin when you drink the whole bottle and turn something that wouldn't be a sin if you were temperate, into a sin by becoming a drunkard.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 28, 2018 16:41:13 GMT -5
This has been a good, thought provoking thread. To me, temperance is self-control, but that is not something that comes naturally. That is not something our flesh desires. Our flesh wants what it wants when it wants it and as much as it wants. Thinking about that piece of cake analogy, the eyes see the cake, and the mind thinks that it looks delicious, and that I must have it. The mouth starts to water. The stomach starts to growl, as if demanding that you start eating it. You begin to partake, and the taste buds tell you how good it tastes. You eat till you have had enough, but that taste is so good, you don't stop. Before you know it, you have eaten half the cake, and are miserable and sipping on a glass of Alka-Seltzer. Ever experienced that? I have. That is lack of temperance. Temperance is a fruit of the Spirit.
It is not okay to be temperate when it comes to sin. A little sin is never okay. I was thinking about this old pop song from the 80s, and one of the lines was, "I'm just an average guy, I fooled around a little on the side." In the song, you are under the impression a little fooling around is normal and natural, and he only got in trouble when he fell in love with the other woman. Then it became a full blown affair and that was wrong! Temperance isn't okay when it comes to sin. What I take this to mean is that you are to be temperate in areas where something is not sinful, but can become sinful, like in the cake analogy. There is no sin in enjoying a slice of cake, but it can become gluttony. You could do this with other things like a glass of wine with a meal. No sin there. Jesus turned water into wine, but this can become a sin when you drink the whole bottle and turn something that wouldn't be a sin if you were temperate, into a sin by becoming a drunkard.
I definitely agree that we should practice moderation to the best of our ability! When we need more help to fight sinful temptation, that’s when James and Peter come in. 🙂
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Post by John on Sept 28, 2018 17:14:58 GMT -5
This has been a good, thought provoking thread. To me, temperance is self-control, but that is not something that comes naturally. That is not something our flesh desires. Our flesh wants what it wants when it wants it and as much as it wants. Thinking about that piece of cake analogy, the eyes see the cake, and the mind thinks that it looks delicious, and that I must have it. The mouth starts to water. The stomach starts to growl, as if demanding that you start eating it. You begin to partake, and the taste buds tell you how good it tastes. You eat till you have had enough, but that taste is so good, you don't stop. Before you know it, you have eaten half the cake, and are miserable and sipping on a glass of Alka-Seltzer. Ever experienced that? I have. That is lack of temperance. Temperance is a fruit of the Spirit.
It is not okay to be temperate when it comes to sin. A little sin is never okay. I was thinking about this old pop song from the 80s, and one of the lines was, "I'm just an average guy, I fooled around a little on the side." In the song, you are under the impression a little fooling around is normal and natural, and he only got in trouble when he fell in love with the other woman. Then it became a full blown affair and that was wrong! Temperance isn't okay when it comes to sin. What I take this to mean is that you are to be temperate in areas where something is not sinful, but can become sinful, like in the cake analogy. There is no sin in enjoying a slice of cake, but it can become gluttony. You could do this with other things like a glass of wine with a meal. No sin there. Jesus turned water into wine, but this can become a sin when you drink the whole bottle and turn something that wouldn't be a sin if you were temperate, into a sin by becoming a drunkard.
I definitely agree that we should practice moderation to the best of our ability! When we need more help to fight sinful temptation, that’s when James and Peter come in. 🙂 When I was reading your posts, and especially thinking of your comments about moderation as opposed to temperance, I was taking it that you were really saying the same thing I was about how we can't be moderate when it comes to sinful things, but in other words.
This has been a very good thread, all things that will help us with our walk, and everyone making positive contributions.
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Post by Giller on Sept 29, 2018 0:45:57 GMT -5
I must agree a lot of interesting thoughts.
Here is another definition in regards to the word temperance.
(https://www.dictionary.com/browse/temperance)
(temperance
noun
moderation or self-restraint in action, statement, etc.; self-control.)
I personally really love the word the KJV uses which is temperance.
And here is something Butero mentioned:"Temperance isn't okay when it comes to sin. What I take this to mean is that you are to be temperate in areas where something is not sinful, but can become sinful,".
I really love what Butero said here and it makes total sense.
So temperance I believe is a type of self restrain, or self control, but as PG4HIM mentioned: "Can we self-control our way into beating uncontrolled urges?"
And of course the answer is obvious, is no.
In the realm of will power, we can never overcome sin, nor walk in the fruit of the Spirit.
The only part of the will that we use, in this realm is the power to choose.
But we cannot be empowered through will power, in regards to walking with God or overcoming sin.
We need to put our faith in the finished work of calvary, and of course there is a battle and warfare, and it also says to labor to enter into his rest, but we approach these things knowing that Christ has overcome, and has purchased for us the victory, therefore standing on his promises, regardless to the attacks of Satan.
So temperance is a fruit of the Spirit or of the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost brings enablement or empowers this fruit in our lives so we can walk in this.
And when we give ourselves over to the Holy Ghost, then things can be brought into balance in our lives.
And it will not be temperance in sin, but temperance in things that are not sinful in and of themselves, but can become sinful such as the food example, I think it was about eating cake, which is not wrong, but eat too much and it can lead to gluttony.
But one thing I want to focus, in regards to temperance is in regard to our emotions and 5 senses.
Emotions and the 5 senses in and of themselves are not wrong for God gave us these things, but if our emotions and 5 senses are not governed by the Spirit of God, it can bring forth lust (lust of the eyes etc.), and then when lust has conceived it brings forth sin.
So when a type of sin springs forth, it was first conceived through lust, and then it brings forth the sin you were lusting after, whether it be stealing someone's money, idol worship towards a man (rock star, heavy metal star), and so on and so on.
But if the issues of the heart are dealt with, those other things will not come into manifestation.
Temperance brings an emotional balance etc, and I believe in certain regards, is that wisdom and temperance kind of work together.
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Post by Giller on Sept 29, 2018 1:09:21 GMT -5
One of the counterfeits to temperance which is a type of self control, I find to be also found in Yoga.
Here is info on this Yoga stuff, from a Yoga website:
(http://yoga.org.nz/benefits/psychological_benefits/self_control.htm)
(Self Control
Through the breathing techniques that are learnt and acquired through the practice of yoga, you will learn the much sort after art of self control.)
This is what they say.
And then there is the monks.
(https://spiritualray.com/how-to-become-monk)
(After having completed all these stages, it is not easy to adhere to and live this life. It takes tremendous determination, self-control, discipline, and the non-attached mindset to be able to live through a life as a monk.)
And guys, correct me if I am wrong or not, but didn't Martin Luther before he received the message of being justified by faith, didn't he use to whip himself, which was a type of false self control?
And nevertheless, these are counterfeits to the biblical temperance.
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