Dezi
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Post by Dezi on Nov 10, 2018 14:30:17 GMT -5
Who exactly were the Pharisees and the Saducees?
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Nov 10, 2018 15:05:05 GMT -5
They were opposing socio-political groups who competed for power in the local government. Although Rome had an occupation government over Judea, daily community affairs were governed through the Sanhedrin, with Herod acting as a puppet ethnic king. Just like today how the Democrats and Republicans are bigger than politics (they represent ideologies with deeper moral and spiritual implications) the Pharisees and Sadducees were divided over serious philosophical conflicts.
Generally speaking, the Pharisees had a more nationalist tendency that emphasized Jewish pride, while the Sadducees took a more pragmatic “global government” view. The Pharisees generally held a literal view of the OT Scripture, where the Sadducees downplayed miracles/supernatural events. Sadducees didn’t believe resurrection was possible; some indeed may not have believed in heaven at all. While the Pharisees were more likely to ‘believe’ the OT, they had a rather clinical, legalist view of it that turned off the common population.
You can get more insight to these groups by taking note of the kinds of questions they asked Jesus.
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Dezi
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Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on Nov 10, 2018 18:08:34 GMT -5
They were opposing socio-political groups who competed for power in the local government. Although Rome had an occupation government over Judea, daily community affairs were governed through the Sanhedrin, with Herod acting as a puppet ethnic king. Just like today how the Democrats and Republicans are bigger than politics (they represent ideologies with deeper moral and spiritual implications) the Pharisees and Sadducees were divided over serious philosophical conflicts. Generally speaking, the Pharisees had a more nationalist tendency that emphasized Jewish pride, while the Sadducees took a more pragmatic “global government” view. The Pharisees generally held a literal view of the OT Scripture, where the Sadducees downplayed miracles/supernatural events. Sadducees didn’t believe resurrection was possible; some indeed may not have believed in heaven at all. While the Pharisees were more likely to ‘believe’ the OT, they had a rather clinical, legalist view of it that turned off the common population. You can get more insight to these groups by taking note of the kinds of questions they asked Jesus. Thank you PG.... I would like to learn more... where did you get your information?
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Nov 10, 2018 19:24:47 GMT -5
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Dezi
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Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on Nov 10, 2018 22:40:40 GMT -5
Thank you.... I will check it out!
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Post by Sister on Nov 10, 2018 23:18:27 GMT -5
Hi Dezi
Jesus spoke so much about the Pharisees and Sadducees not only for them, but for us to understand also today.
Matthew 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Back then, they Pharisees were the ones who ensured that "the Law" was made known and obeyed. They were the ones in charge of the temple, ...the ones with authority over the Jews concerning the commandments and ordinances.
Yet Jesus said that they were hypocrites, and could not even keep the law themselves.
Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Today we have modern day Pharisees. They are the ones in authority over the Christian church. Christ's true church follow the doctrine that comes from heaven, and not from man. Man likes to mix the two and say it's all from God, making up his own rules and interpretation of doctrine. We don't go to the church for truth but straight to the Word of God which was preserved for us in ink in order to know and learn how to distinguish between the lies and truth. We have to seek for ourselves and compare everything to what's written in the Holy book - which comes straight from heaven and not men.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 14:37:30 GMT -5
There is a lot of information out there...some of it might be conflicting and confusing. The most important thing is to let the Holy Spirit help us understand what the bible shows us about the Pharisees and Saducees.
It's amazing how the different sects of Judaism at that time parallels the sects and denominations that developed within Christianity. Israel is our ensample and Christianity has followed a very similar pattern as to how things went with Israel. Jesus was calling them to come out of all the mess and division that Judaism had become, to simply follow Him. To flee it and take hold of Him (Heb 6:18).
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Post by Abdicate on Dec 6, 2018 19:32:14 GMT -5
Who exactly were the Pharisees and the Saducees? The Democrats and Republicans of the time with a religious twist. The Saducees didn't believe in the resurrection of the dead. That's why they were sad, you see? The Pharisees of Jesus' time are the Rabbinical Council of today.
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Post by John on Dec 6, 2018 19:39:36 GMT -5
Hi Dezi Jesus spoke so much about the Pharisees and Sadducees not only for them, but for us to understand also today. Matthew 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: Back then, they Pharisees were the ones who ensured that "the Law" was made known and obeyed. They were the ones in charge of the temple, ...the ones with authority over the Jews concerning the commandments and ordinances.
Yet Jesus said that they were hypocrites, and could not even keep the law themselves. Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Today we have modern day Pharisees. They are the ones in authority over the Christian church. Christ's true church follow the doctrine that comes from heaven, and not from man. Man likes to mix the two and say it's all from God, making up his own rules and interpretation of doctrine. We don't go to the church for truth but straight to the Word of God which was preserved for us in ink in order to know and learn how to distinguish between the lies and truth. We have to seek for ourselves and compare everything to what's written in the Holy book - which comes straight from heaven and not men.
It seems to me that Jesus said they didn't keep it, not that they couldn't keep it. That is a huge difference. They chose not to keep the laws they were teaching, and when they didn't like something, they would come up with traditions to make it null and void.
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Post by Sister on Dec 8, 2018 9:21:40 GMT -5
Hi Dezi Jesus spoke so much about the Pharisees and Sadducees not only for them, but for us to understand also today. Matthew 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: Back then, they Pharisees were the ones who ensured that "the Law" was made known and obeyed. They were the ones in charge of the temple, ...the ones with authority over the Jews concerning the commandments and ordinances.
Yet Jesus said that they were hypocrites, and could not even keep the law themselves. Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Today we have modern day Pharisees. They are the ones in authority over the Christian church. Christ's true church follow the doctrine that comes from heaven, and not from man. Man likes to mix the two and say it's all from God, making up his own rules and interpretation of doctrine. We don't go to the church for truth but straight to the Word of God which was preserved for us in ink in order to know and learn how to distinguish between the lies and truth. We have to seek for ourselves and compare everything to what's written in the Holy book - which comes straight from heaven and not men.
It seems to me that Jesus said they didn't keep it, not that they couldn't keep it. That is a huge difference. They chose not to keep the laws they were teaching, and when they didn't like something, they would come up with traditions to make it null and void.
Yes, and it appears that God was tired with all their traditions before Christ even came.
Isaiah 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Isaiah 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Isaiah 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
Isaiah 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
I noticed that God said "your" new moons, and "your" appointed feasts? Didn't God give these traditions to them? Did they change the traditions in some way I wonder?
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 8, 2018 9:48:24 GMT -5
It seems to me that Jesus said they didn't keep it, not that they couldn't keep it. That is a huge difference. They chose not to keep the laws they were teaching, and when they didn't like something, they would come up with traditions to make it null and void.
Yes, and it appears that God was tired with all their traditions before Christ even came.
Isaiah 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Isaiah 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Isaiah 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
Isaiah 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
I noticed that God said "your" new moons, and "your" appointed feasts? Didn't God give these traditions to them? Did they change the traditions in some way I wonder?
Isaiah 1 is a fascinating chapter all around.
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Post by joseph on May 29, 2019 13:44:14 GMT -5
It seems to me that Jesus said they didn't keep it, not that they couldn't keep it. That is a huge difference. They chose not to keep the laws they were teaching, and when they didn't like something, they would come up with traditions to make it null and void.
Really? Who then (ever) COULD keep it ? (TORAH)
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 29, 2019 14:00:53 GMT -5
Really? Who then (ever) COULD keep it ? (TORAH) "Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." - Romans 13:10
"Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love..." - Ephesians 5:1-2
"For the commandments,
“You shall not commit adultery,”
“You shall not murder,”
“You shall not steal,”
“You shall not bear false witness,”
“You shall not covet,”
and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”" - Romans 13:9
"He who does not love does not know God, for God is love." - 1 John 4:8
"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you,
do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets." - Matthew 7:12
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Post by John on May 29, 2019 14:24:03 GMT -5
It seems to me that Jesus said they didn't keep it, not that they couldn't keep it. That is a huge difference. They chose not to keep the laws they were teaching, and when they didn't like something, they would come up with traditions to make it null and void.
Really? Who then (ever) COULD keep it ? (TORAH) Look carefully at what I said. Did Jesus say they couldn't keep it or didn't keep it?
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Post by joseph on May 29, 2019 14:37:19 GMT -5
Really? Who then (ever) COULD keep it ? (TORAH) Look carefully at what I said. Did Jesus say they couldn't keep it or didn't keep it?
Don't have to look carefully. They both couldn't keep it, AND didn't keep it. Thus the question - WHO COULD (EVER) KEEP IT ?
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