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Post by John on Apr 11, 2018 15:55:47 GMT -5
There has been a long time controversy over the age of the planet. If we go by the traditional view of Genesis, we believe that Genesis 1:1 shows the beginning of the earth in direct conjunction with the story of creation. If that is true, the age of the earth should be approximately 6000 years. Others believe the earth is much older than that, based on things like carbon dating. The only way to reconcile an old earth with Genesis is the Gap Theory. That says that something happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. The theory is that God wouldn't create the earth "without form, and void." This would allow for a period of time where we had dinosaurs and cave men. The idea is that God destroyed that world and started over again. On the other hand, some believe the dinosaurs were destroyed at the time of Noah's flood. They were not on the ark. There are extra-Biblical books that claim the dinosaurs were the result of genetics engineering at the time when the sons of God married the daughters of men, and God destroyed them with the giants and wicked men.
The question is, what do you think is the most plausible? A young earth and the dinosaurs were destroyed before the flood, or an old earth and the gap theory? I realize nobody knows for absolute certainty, but I am opening this up for discussion. What I absolutely reject is the theory of evolution or any theory that goes contrary to scripture. I hope everyone agrees the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. If you don't, we can discuss that too.
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Post by frienduff on Apr 11, 2018 19:42:28 GMT -5
Butero. by grace I simply believe the BIBLE is the WORD of God .
And the minds of men , I no longer heed . Its a young earth. Probably around six or so thousand years.
As for dinosaurs , their were great beasts in JOBS day. And I am with you , evolution can take a hike. You be blessed butero. Go on now , raise those hands up and praise the LORD . I don't believe in any gaps . Nor old earth. Nothing is too hard for GOD. if he said ONE DAY . then its one day . JESUS spoke and instantly the winds ceased the storm ceased. God is all powerful. You loved brother . I just believe as a small child . IF the bible said it, ITS TRUE . and on that note ITS LORD PRASING TIME AGAIN>
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Post by John on Apr 12, 2018 18:31:17 GMT -5
For years, I believed in the gap theory, because I couldn't imagine dinosaurs being in existence in the world God created in Genesis, and living along mankind. Recently, I came across a book called, "Book of the Giants." It is a book that only exists in fragments, but the time period was before the flood. It claims that at the time the Sons of God took to wife the daughters of men, and the offspring were giants, there was experiments being done with DNA. According to that book, the dinosaurs and other "pre-historic" animals were the result of monkeying with DNA. These monsters were not natural, anymore than the giants were. That makes perfect sense to me. They would not have been taken on the ark, anymore than the giants would, because God desired to destroy the works of the fallen angels.
Anyway, there is no way to be absolutely sure about any of this, but it makes better sense to me than does the gap theory, though I can't completely rule it out. Also, the Bible describes the end times as like in the days of Noah, and right now, with the space alien hoax, those who are being abducted claim they have had experiments done on them involving trying to create alien-human hybrids by messing with our DNA. I think the "space aliens" are really fallen angels.
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Post by justinadams on Apr 13, 2018 6:48:36 GMT -5
Mokèlé-mbèmbé seems to be real. The Belgian Congo; this area is 2/3 the size of the US and largely unexplored. Many giant lizard sighting have been reported there and world-wide, so I do not think that the 'dinosaurs' died out in a pre-Adamic world. There were most likely small dinos on the ark as well as small animals (not fully grown). Two by two and seven by seven.
Now as far as the Watchers; I think that was the reason for the flood. To keep Noah's DNA pure for the eventual birth of the Messiah (the seed of Adam/Eve). Looking at Greek mythology; museums I have attended do not appear to think of them all as mythological at all. It is wise to read of the old Mesopotamian beliefs and art forms. I do not think that Job was unaware of the angels that sinned since he mentions that Yahweh is suspicious of His council members. Those that Saul called Archons, or sons of God that were also refereed to as principalities and powers. As in Daniel, we are still contending in this area and although the Almighty is still in ultimate control, He uses them for His purposes when He needs to.
Our moon has dust on it that surprised Nasa. That is why the lander's legs were too long - they expected millions of years of dust. See the footprint pictures. The precession of the earth has been a bit of a secret since a computer model has put this 'wobble' of 23.5 % occurring about 4-5 thousand years ago. The fact that the earth now has far more surface water than about 4k years ago is another sort of secret. Land bridges way back would have allowed far more migration than today.
Evolutionists have stumbled over so many faults in their theory that they had to make it a matter of POLICY in science and education to be able to keep it all alive. It is still taught as fact all over the world which is such a shame since the children are hoodwinked largely by the state which is almost invariably godless.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 11:34:28 GMT -5
Just a few disjointed thoughts here. I don't know the science well enough to comment on it.....too much and too mind-boggling for me. But God said that knowledge would increase in the last days, just as He knew that men would run to and fro. And it might be that scientists are making some discoveries which are true, but having trouble putting all the pieces of the puzzle together correctly. If the earth and heavens were created before time...who knows how long that might appear in earth time once it was all bound in time afterwards....and who can fathom it?
The earth was once covered entirely in water....before being divided up into land and seas. I'm not sure if the science is confirming that yet or not.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
It's interesting that in Genesis 1 it says the earth brought forth the grass and plants and trees, and that the waters brought forth marine life, and that the earth brought forth the animals and other living creatures, indicating that this is how He created them:
Gen 1:11-12 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:20-21 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Also, where it says that with the Lord a thousand years is AS a day, and a day is AS a thousand years, I believe we are to understand that these are not literal days or literal thousand years...otherwise it would have said a thousand years IS a day and day IS a thousand years. So to me that is talking about being outside of time, and that agrees with our understanding that God exists outside of time, not bound by it. Whether that has any application to the first, second, third, fourth etc, "days" of creation, i am not sure.....but if the Lord did create the earth and heavens outside of time, then it seems that would have a bearing on how we are to understand those days.
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Post by justinadams on Apr 13, 2018 12:34:54 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts. I note that in order to have most of the created stuff, time is of the essence. So it must be done quickly to sustain itself. Dr Job Martin does an excellent set of videos on 'Creatures that defy evolution'. That also shows the irreducible complexity of life. There can be no interim periods of time as they needed to be created as they are. There is much to learn from Dr. Martin's work and it is great for kids and adults alike.
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Post by John on Apr 13, 2018 13:41:54 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts. I note that in order to have most of the created stuff, time is of the essence. So it must be done quickly to sustain itself. Dr Job Martin does an excellent set of videos on 'Creatures that defy evolution'. That also shows the irreducible complexity of life. There can be no interim periods of time as they needed to be created as they are. There is much to learn from Dr. Martin's work and it is great for kids and adults alike. Is it safe to say you believe all was created in 6 24 hour days, and you believe in a young earth?
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Post by justinadams on Apr 13, 2018 15:06:19 GMT -5
I have spent a very long time considering all this. It seems to me to be sufficient to think that the six days are what they are purported to be and that the Seventh is Yahweh's Sabbath that He is very, very particular about. I believe He really wants and even commands us to revere His Sabbaths. He has said this so many times I have read.
As far as the days that He created various creatures on, I have no problem with that either. I do not need to stretch my mind to encompass all that He said about His Creation since He also said that He stretched out the stars in the heavens, or flung them there. That would indicate that our world was really the center of the universe. A very interesting thought. Significant in that we see the light of stars millions of light years away. "The Heavens declare His Glory" Since our Lord is able to do what He likes when He likes, I do not feel any kind of disconnect thinking this way about these things.
I think that our God is a God of the impossible. He has told us this often enough. If He tooled around His universe(s) awhile as He thought about making humans, then I have no issue with that either. In His non-material and timeless form, putting our units of measurement on Him is meaningless. At some point He decided on creating us and our world. That is where our story begins.
I began a month or so ago reading at Genesis and have reached Second Samuel so far. I am astounded at how many miracles there are! Two lots of waters held up, one time of the moon AND the sun standing still. So for me there is absolutely no question about the Lord's abilities. Nothing at all is beyond His abilities, so if He wants to tell me how it all came about, I should embrace what he says without reservation. Which I do!
I also have many, many other good reasons, besides just faith, to believe the way I do.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 16:31:55 GMT -5
Well as many who know me know I believe there was a gap between Gen. 1:1 and Gen 1:2. I also do not believe in evolution. I also know that God created these with man.
Job 40:15-24, v. 15, Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16, Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17, He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18, His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19, He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20, Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21, He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22, The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23, Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24, He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.
The fact that behemoth was chief of the ways of God (V. 19), suggests that he was something more than an elephant or a hippopotamus.
What ever the animal was, it was made when Adam was created, according to this statement to Job where God said, "WHICH I MADE WITH THEE," meaning He made behemoth when he created man (V. 15).
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Post by justinadams on Apr 14, 2018 5:03:53 GMT -5
Interesting question: When God killed animals for skins to clothe Adam and Eve. I presume that 'death' was not equated with God's pronouncement of death of the spirit due to sin. This is important I think. Although it seems that animals could then live on herbs as could humans, do you think the animal kingdom was necessarily sometimes faced with death in order to survive? In other words, death was not a pronouncement in the animal kindom - or was it??
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2018 6:14:02 GMT -5
Interesting question: When God killed animals for skins to clothe Adam and Eve. I presume that 'death' was not equated with God's pronouncement of death of the spirit due to sin. This is important I think. Although it seems that animals could then live on herbs as could humans, do you think the animal kingdom was necessarily sometimes faced with death in order to survive? In other words, death was not a pronouncement in the animal kindom - or was it?? I don't think anyone or anything ate flesh until after the fall. I believe the animals did eat herbs, but after the fall, you had animals killing each other for food and survival.
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Post by justinadams on Apr 14, 2018 6:27:53 GMT -5
This goes along with what I mostly think happened after the flood. However, whales survive on Krill. Other fishes' cycles include devouring smaller species etc. Sea life is based on one thing eating another in order to grow and procreate. How does this figure in the question I posed about death?
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2018 8:17:11 GMT -5
This goes along with what I mostly think happened after the flood. However, whales survive on Krill. Other fishes' cycles include devouring smaller species etc. Sea life is based on one thing eating another in order to grow and procreate. How does this figure in the question I posed about death? That is a good question. Man was able to live forever because he had access to the tree of life. I suppose if the animals ate of that fruit, they would live forever as well, but did they? I think the behavior of animals changed after the fall. Remember that during the millennial reign of Christ, the lion will lay down beside the lamb.
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Post by Sister on Apr 14, 2018 9:49:41 GMT -5
There has been a long time controversy over the age of the planet. If we go by the traditional view of Genesis, we believe that Genesis 1:1 shows the beginning of the earth in direct conjunction with the story of creation. If that is true, the age of the earth should be approximately 6000 years. Others believe the earth is much older than that, based on things like carbon dating. The only way to reconcile an old earth with Genesis is the Gap Theory. That says that something happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. The theory is that God wouldn't create the earth "without form, and void." This would allow for a period of time where we had dinosaurs and cave men. The idea is that God destroyed that world and started over again. On the other hand, some believe the dinosaurs were destroyed at the time of Noah's flood. They were not on the ark. There are extra-Biblical books that claim the dinosaurs were the result of genetics engineering at the time when the sons of God married the daughters of men, and God destroyed them with the giants and wicked men. The question is, what do you think is the most plausible? A young earth and the dinosaurs were destroyed before the flood, or an old earth and the gap theory? I realize nobody knows for absolute certainty, but I am opening this up for discussion. What I absolutely reject is the theory of evolution or any theory that goes contrary to scripture. I hope everyone agrees the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. If you don't, we can discuss that too. Hi Butero I believe in a young earth. I believe God created everything in 6 literal days and rested on the 7th just like he said. I would say that the earth will be 7,000 years at the start of the millennium. The 7th day of rest also symbolised what was to come at the start of Christ's reign, ....the period of rest for a thousand years (from the enemy), although i cannot for the life of me reconcile this when calculating all the genealogy's going right back to Adam as I get 5,085 yrs or so (can't remember off hand). but..... I read this in Enoch and find it informative. The secrets of Enoch Ch 33
1. AND I appointed the eighth day also, that the eighth day should be the first-created after my work, and that the first seven revolve in the form of the seventh thousand, and that at the beginning of the eighth thousand there should be a time of not-counting, endless, with neither years nor months nor weeks nor days nor hours.
If the 8th day, representing the 8000th year starts when the heavens and the earth are melted and recreated, then this mean's the start of the millennium is the 7000th year. God is showing us where we are at. As for you reading in extra-biblical books about the dinosaurs, I would be very interested, as I have not come across any mentioning these, but only about the fallen angels and their offspring who descended in the days of Jared (5th from Adam) and were destroyed "before" the flood, as God put it into their hearts to war and kill one another until they were all gone during the days of Enoch (3 generations before Noah) Could he have done the same with the dinosaurs, or were they destroyed in the flood?
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2018 10:10:16 GMT -5
There has been a long time controversy over the age of the planet. If we go by the traditional view of Genesis, we believe that Genesis 1:1 shows the beginning of the earth in direct conjunction with the story of creation. If that is true, the age of the earth should be approximately 6000 years. Others believe the earth is much older than that, based on things like carbon dating. The only way to reconcile an old earth with Genesis is the Gap Theory. That says that something happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. The theory is that God wouldn't create the earth "without form, and void." This would allow for a period of time where we had dinosaurs and cave men. The idea is that God destroyed that world and started over again. On the other hand, some believe the dinosaurs were destroyed at the time of Noah's flood. They were not on the ark. There are extra-Biblical books that claim the dinosaurs were the result of genetics engineering at the time when the sons of God married the daughters of men, and God destroyed them with the giants and wicked men. The question is, what do you think is the most plausible? A young earth and the dinosaurs were destroyed before the flood, or an old earth and the gap theory? I realize nobody knows for absolute certainty, but I am opening this up for discussion. What I absolutely reject is the theory of evolution or any theory that goes contrary to scripture. I hope everyone agrees the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. If you don't, we can discuss that too. Hi Butero I believe in a young earth. I believe God created everything in 6 literal days and rested on the 7th just like he said. I would say that the earth will be 7,000 years at the start of the millennium. The 7th day of rest also symbolised what was to come at the start of Christ's reign, ....the period of rest for a thousand years (from the enemy), although i cannot for the life of me reconcile this when calculating all the genealogy's going right back to Adam as I get 5,085 yrs or so (can't remember off hand). but..... I read this in Enoch and find it informative. The secrets of Enoch Ch 33
1. AND I appointed the eighth day also, that the eighth day should be the first-created after my work, and that the first seven revolve in the form of the seventh thousand, and that at the beginning of the eighth thousand there should be a time of not-counting, endless, with neither years nor months nor weeks nor days nor hours.
If the 8th day, representing the 8000th year starts when the heavens and the earth are melted and recreated, then this mean's the start of the millennium is the 7000th year. God is showing us where we are at. As for you reading in extra-biblical books about the dinosaurs, I would be very interested, as I have not come across any mentioning these, but only about the fallen angels and their offspring who descended in the days of Jared (5th from Adam) and were destroyed "before" the flood, as God put it into their hearts to war and kill one another until they were all gone during the days of Enoch (3 generations before Noah) Could he have done the same with the dinosaurs, or were they destroyed in the flood? What I was reading was a book called, "Book of the Giants." I heard about it on a radio program, and you can find the text online. It is not complete, but it does give insight into where animals like the dinosaurs came from, though I don't believe it calls them dinosaurs. You can still see that is likely what it is speaking of. I agree with you about a young earth, but I have always thought that since God created everything in 6 days, and rested on the 7th day, once the 6th day was over, the millennial reign would begin. As to the actual age of the earth since the day of creation, many years ago, I found a book that had information based on an old Roman calendar that indicated that the year 2036 was really the year 6000. If that is correct, if you back that up 7 years, you could figure the great tribulation period would begin around the year 2029. You could back it up to September of 2028 to coincide with the Feast of Trumpets, where the rapture could occur. Another thing to keep in mind is that 2028 is 80 years after Israel became a nation again. The normal lifespan of a man, thus a generation, is threescore and ten to fourscore years, or 70 to 80 years. If you go to YouTube, there are many predicting all kinds of things to take place in 2028, including the creation of time travel. I believe that is a hoax, but you may find people using it as a way to explain the disappearance of many from off the face of the earth, if the rapture were to occur at that time. No man knows the day or the hour of the Lord's return, so this is all just speculation, but there are signs pointing in that direction. If you are one that doesn't believe in the rapture, you would then expect the second coming around September of 2035 or in 2036 if those calculations are correct. You could also make a case for 2028 as the year 6000, if the Roman calendar is off, as that is exactly 80 years after Israel was become a nation again. That would move the date of the tribulation back 7 more years to 2021. Confused? The only thing we really need be worried about is being watchful at all times. The Lord will come at a time when people are not looking for him. So long as we are watching and waiting, and keeping our spiritual house in order, rapture or no rapture, right date or wrong date in our mind, all will be well with our soul.
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