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Post by Giller on Feb 23, 2019 1:57:38 GMT -5
And yes the bible says that we are saved, sanctified, glorified (Romans 8:30, 1 Corinthians 6:11), yet at the same time we are being sanctified.
Sanctification means to be set apart, that is set apart for the master's use, for God's holy purposes.
And in sanctification, there is a process of change that occurs.
Our standing in Christ is perfect, but our state is not perfect.
What we seek to do as Christians, is to bring our state, up to our standing.
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Post by Giller on Feb 23, 2019 2:44:35 GMT -5
And remember that the word fire in different bible verses have a few meanings, and do not all mean the same thing, you have to look at the context.
Because many times people will use say the word fire, and try to apply the same meaning to almost every verse that mentions the word fire, we have to be careful of this.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Feb 23, 2019 6:11:10 GMT -5
Yes we must seek to fully live the truth, but how many of us are totally perfect in this? No one here is claiming to be perfect. I am just encouraging the pursue of true holiness, which is by faith.
We are only perfect in Christ, that is why being sanctified by faith in Him is very important.
"and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power." - Colossians 2:10Man, man , man, let us be careful not to be so self righteous. frienduff , PG4Him and are not being self righteous.
Nor is encouraging sanctification self righteousness; we were called to this.
"and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness." - Ephesians 4:24
We have to seek the righteousness of God, by faith, that is NOT self righteousness.
"...I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life." - John 8:12
What I am warning about here is that many new Christians get trapped in a sin loop which can be dangerous and are not helpful.
The more sanctified by faith one becomes in Christ the less prone they are to be in love with sin, which is dangerous.
"and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith." - Acts 15:9
"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies." - Matthew 15:19
And it indeed is possible to stop falling for things that we were easily seduced by before coming to Christ.
Therefore, if people reach a maturity level that those things will not tempt them anymore, they will be more secure and bolder in the faith.
It is not a matter of seeking superficial perfection (as the Pharisees), it is about truly seeking perfection.
"and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed." - Hebrews 12:13
"Finally, brethren, farewell. Become complete. Be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you." - 2 Corinthians 13:11
"Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind." - Philippians 3:16
No one here is thinking that we are superior to others or is despising others because we think:
We are holier than you.
Such mentality is the opposite of true holiness, and it is not living according to the truth.
"Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." - Romans 13:10
"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets." - Matthew 7:12
Blessings in Jesus' name!
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Feb 23, 2019 9:08:36 GMT -5
How did this thread become an argument? We have so many different strands tangled together now.
Are we talking about people who are scarcely saved/converted or scarcely sanctified? I didn’t take Frienduff’s comment as an attack on babies. Of course when someone first meets Jesus and is on fire for the gospel, they still have to learn. Enthusiasm isn’t maturity. I don’t think anyone here would disagree with that. It’s okay to be “scarcely sanctified” because you’re still learning. But “scarcely saved”? Scarcely born again? Scarcely believing the Bible is true? That’s a whole different story.
This doesn’t need to be a fight. We’ve shared our perspectives. We see this verse differently, and that’s okay.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Feb 23, 2019 10:26:12 GMT -5
Are we talking about people who are scarcely saved/converted or scarcely sanctified? I didn’t take Frienduff’s comment as an attack on babies. Of course when someone first meets Jesus and is on fire for the gospel, they still have to learn. Enthusiasm isn’t maturity. I don’t think anyone here would disagree with that. It’s okay to be “scarcely sanctified” because you’re still learning. But “scarcely saved”? Scarcely born again? Scarcely believing the Bible is true? That’s a whole different story. This doesn’t need to be a fight. We’ve shared our perspectives. We see this verse differently, and that’s okay. Scarcely saved, to me, simply means that many will be lost, as prophesied:
"Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord..." - Matthew 7:22
"And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" - Matthew 7:23
"For many are called, but few are chosen." - Matthew 22:14
"...because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you." - John 15:19
It means that the just (by faith) are scarce (few in number).
"Help, Lord, for the godly man ceases! For the faithful disappear from among the sons of men." - Psalm 12:1
"As for the saints who are on the earth, “They are the excellent ones, in whom is all my delight.”" - Psalm 16:3
I do not believe there are more meanings to it.
Blessings in Jesus' name!
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Post by frienduff on Feb 23, 2019 12:22:55 GMT -5
And yes there is a lot of fake Christians out there, but not all are fake, and some are new to Christ, yes they will have a love for God, but that does not mean that they have fully put on the mind of Christ, for all of us have to change, let us be careful of self righteousness. Giller you are loved . But its not being Self righteous to speak truth . Paul never went easy on new or old believers . That line peter wrote speaks of only two groups , TRUE BELEIVERS and UNBELIEVERS . lets not add to it . You are loved giller . You say much good , but let us not take anything out of text . All who live GODLY , yes true and godly WILL suffer persecution . And also the Lord chastens us if we err as well . But peter was only talking about TWO groups . the believer who is scarcely saved , and the unbeliever . And think about it . We as christains will suffer hate against us , persecutions . and by and large the world seems to have it easieir . BUT NOT AT THE END IT DONT . IF we think suffering in this life is harsh , Wait till the judgment at the end does come . I assure us all, its far better to suffer for Christ and that nothing man can do to us , IS even close to what GOD can do to both body and soul In HELLFIRE . SO if the righteous scarcly be saved and through much tribulation must we enter the Kingdom , Where will the ungodly appear , IS FAR WORSE , its a lake of fire . THIS is what that message pertains too .
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Feb 23, 2019 14:45:17 GMT -5
i do not think anyone is trying to rain on your parade Giller. if you think i am being self righteous toward you, speak up. because i do not have that intention, and i would rather squash it now before it gets worse. pm me if you like.
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Post by John on Feb 23, 2019 17:23:42 GMT -5
All I have been doing in this thread is trying to interpret the meaning of the passage. I do not know what all of this is about regarding anyone being self-righteous. Nobody here is saying they are better than others because they are living in absolute perfection, and others are struggling in some areas. If anyone here is having struggles, they should not take calls to live right as attacks on them or think others are looking down their noses on them. In reality, I never started the thread to call those who are struggling to suddenly be perfect and suggest that if they are not, they aren't really saved.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Feb 23, 2019 21:09:06 GMT -5
...I never started the thread to call those who are struggling to suddenly be perfect and suggest that if they are not, they aren't really saved.
When people get saved, they still have to learn many things.
Just as a baby is not born already walking and speaking like an adult; it takes time and practice.
A baby may fall a few times as he learns how to walk (in the Spirit). But even adults may fall sometimes if they do not watch.
Then it is process, you have to learn by practicing and seeking. If you do not ask and seek, it will not come.
"...without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." - Hebrews 11:6
"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you." - Matthew 7:7
Blessings in Jesus' name!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 14:41:58 GMT -5
There is a song by a band named soundgarden, one of their songs the lyrics say... times are gone for honest men, and sometimes far to long for snakes. the song is titled black hole sun and its talking about the end of the world, and how the singer welcomed it. it is a rare thing to hear the truth, these days. Let us press on in The LORD, who is our hope, our strength, and even our song. without Him we can not overcome tomorrow. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that Black hole sun song is sad and demonic!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 14:48:30 GMT -5
Personally, after realizing fully that I am the temple of the living God, sin is there ---
But it looks and sounds, and feels so repulsive like "these two things do not go together!"
Why sin and offend the Father who loves me and provides for me, the One who finds my soul acceptable in Christ?
Why sin and throw the blood of Jesus in his face?
Jesus is the lover of my soul, why do that to Him when He sacrificed so much?
Why offend the very Spirit that makes me feel alive every day?
The Lord is answering my prayer for a renewed heart.
He ought to get glory from that.
Praise the Lord!
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Post by Giller on Feb 25, 2019 12:00:02 GMT -5
God bless ye all, I totally believe in sanctification, and I think there was a misunderstanding in what I was saying, and some things have been added to what I am saying.
But nevertheless, I can understand people sharing their view, that is one thing, but the way some things were said (just a few), I find was not said in a good way, but anyhow God is good.
I will just share a few more things, and things to take heed to:
1Pe 4:17-18 (17) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? (18) And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Judgment beginning in the house of God is said in conjunction to "if" the righteous be scarcely saved.
It speaks of judgment in the house of God, not in the world.
And yes the sinner and ungodly is referring to the world, never denied that once.
One example in the bible of judgment coming in the house of God is found in the example of Ananias and Saphira.
God is cleaning house right now, and many of the scarcely saved, I believe will turn away, under the judgment of God.
And one area we have to be careful in, is the area of were we are placing our faith in, is it in us being sinlessly perfect, or is our faith in the one who perfects us?
let us be careful, none of us is perfect, and we all sin at times, let us accept correction, if correction is needed in a certain area, which we all need at times.
Let us not ignore it , defend ourselves, and then put blame on others.
(This is said for the sake of carefulness, please do not take it personally).
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Post by Giller on Feb 25, 2019 12:07:12 GMT -5
How did this thread become an argument? We have so many different strands tangled together now. Are we talking about people who are scarcely saved/converted or scarcely sanctified? I didn’t take Frienduff’s comment as an attack on babies. Of course when someone first meets Jesus and is on fire for the gospel, they still have to learn. Enthusiasm isn’t maturity. I don’t think anyone here would disagree with that. It’s okay to be “scarcely sanctified” because you’re still learning. But “scarcely saved”? Scarcely born again? Scarcely believing the Bible is true? That’s a whole different story. This doesn’t need to be a fight. We’ve shared our perspectives. We see this verse differently, and that’s okay. Scarcely born again of course not, but when the word saved gets mentioned, it sometimes refers to sanctification. And God knows were a person is at, and he knows the heart. There is this scripture to consider: 1Co 3:15 (15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
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Post by John on Feb 25, 2019 12:48:21 GMT -5
How did this thread become an argument? We have so many different strands tangled together now. Are we talking about people who are scarcely saved/converted or scarcely sanctified? I didn’t take Frienduff’s comment as an attack on babies. Of course when someone first meets Jesus and is on fire for the gospel, they still have to learn. Enthusiasm isn’t maturity. I don’t think anyone here would disagree with that. It’s okay to be “scarcely sanctified” because you’re still learning. But “scarcely saved”? Scarcely born again? Scarcely believing the Bible is true? That’s a whole different story. This doesn’t need to be a fight. We’ve shared our perspectives. We see this verse differently, and that’s okay. Scarcely born again of course not, but when the word saved gets mentioned, it sometimes refers to sanctification. And God knows were a person is at, and he knows the heart. There is this scripture to consider: 1Co 3:15 (15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Whether it is talking about sanctification or salvation in the passage in 1 Peter is rather easy to figure out by looking up the word in the Greek. I just did. It is from the Greek word sozo, and it means to deliver out of danger into safety, used principally of God rescuing believers form the penalty and power of sin and into his provisions. If it is speaking of delivering from the penalty and power of sin, it literally means saved as in salvation. The righteous are scarcely saved, not scarcely sanctified. Ananias and Sapphira were not among the scarcely saved. They were lost. They crossed the line with God. I never made any judgements about your belief in sanctification. All I was doing is trying to get the correct meaning in this particular passage, which to me is saying that the most righteous people are scarcely saved.
I have noticed something that you have said more than once, so I feel like there is something on your mind that you haven't come out and said directly enough. You have warned people against being self-righteous. Do you think anyone here is being self-righteous, and if so, how are they doing that? All I ever hear anyone say is that they were terrible sinners and deserving of hell before Jesus rescued them, giving him all the glory for any righteousness they have. I don't see myself as righteous in my own self without the Lord, so I am trying to understand where you are coming from? I also don't know what anyone said that you were offended by. I went back and read the comments, and didn't see anyone attack you. I know that one person can say something a certain way and another can take it wrong. People often times take what I say wrong. What was said that you were bothered by, and why? I am only asking so we can hopefully move past it, because all I was doing was discussing a passage of scripture, not attacking anyone.
Let me say this to anyone. If I misunderstand you, and reply in a way that shows I misunderstood your comments, there is no need to get offended. Just come out and say I misunderstood you, and here is what you really meant. Misunderstandings happen all the time. I can't tell you how many unnecessary fights I had with my wife when we hadn't been married that long over misunderstandings. I thought she was insulting me or she thought I was insulting her, and it was not true. It was just taken wrong. Once we realized this was happening, we had a lot less strife, and I think there have been misunderstandings here as well. I think people have been misjudging others, and people have misunderstood others as well. I believe much of this can easily be cleared up by being more direct.
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Post by Giller on Feb 25, 2019 13:19:46 GMT -5
Scarcely born again of course not, but when the word saved gets mentioned, it sometimes refers to sanctification. And God knows were a person is at, and he knows the heart. There is this scripture to consider: 1Co 3:15 (15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Whether it is talking about sanctification or salvation in the passage in 1 Peter is rather easy to figure out by looking up the word in the Greek. I just did. It is from the Greek word sozo, and it means to deliver out of danger into safety, used principally of God rescuing believers form the penalty and power of sin and into his provisions. If it is speaking of delivering from the penalty and power of sin, it literally means saved as in salvation. The righteous are scarcely saved, not scarcely sanctified. Ananias and Sapphira were not among the scarcely saved. They were lost. They crossed the line with God. I never made any judgements about your belief in sanctification. All I was doing is trying to get the correct meaning in this particular passage, which to me is saying that the most righteous people are scarcely saved.
I have noticed something that you have said more than once, so I feel like there is something on your mind that you haven't come out and said directly enough. You have warned people against being self-righteous. Do you think anyone here is being self-righteous, and if so, how are they doing that? All I ever hear anyone say is that they were terrible sinners and deserving of hell before Jesus rescued them, giving him all the glory for any righteousness they have. I don't see myself as righteous in my own self without the Lord, so I am trying to understand where you are coming from? I also don't know what anyone said that you were offended by. I went back and read the comments, and didn't see anyone attack you. I know that one person can say something a certain way and another can take it wrong. People often times take what I say wrong. What was said that you were bothered by, and why? I am only asking so we can hopefully move past it, because all I was doing was discussing a passage of scripture, not attacking anyone.
Let me say this to anyone. If I misunderstand you, and reply in a way that shows I misunderstood your comments, there is no need to get offended. Just come out and say I misunderstood you, and here is what you really meant. Misunderstandings happen all the time. I can't tell you how many unnecessary fights I had with my wife when we hadn't been married that long over misunderstandings. I thought she was insulting me or she thought I was insulting her, and it was not true. It was just taken wrong. Once we realized this was happening, we had a lot less strife, and I think there have been misunderstandings here as well. I think people have been misjudging others, and people have misunderstood others as well. I believe much of this can easily be cleared up by being more direct.
Concerning Ananias and Saphira, yes I believe in the end they were not saved, but that does not mean they were never saved at one time. And concerning the scarcely saved part, well I will leave it at that, but I believe it is them just making it in, and I do not see it as a positive statement, even though they are just making it in. Do I believe that people have a love for the Lord here, absolutely. Maybe I will pm you concerning the other things, or the things that were said.
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