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Post by Giller on Dec 18, 2018 14:04:23 GMT -5
Yes it is true that we cannot take credit for a healing or not, whether we were used to lay hands or not.
It is always God doing the healing, but I have to reiterate something:
Mar 16:15-18 (15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
These are not talking about people who call themselves Christians, yet are not, this is not talking about mental ascent so-called Christians, this is talking to true Christians.
They have been given authority to cast out devils.
And if there is no examples of unbelievers casting out devils, and this authority belongs only to true believers, than why go there?
Why not just believe what it says?
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 18, 2018 14:08:26 GMT -5
But again Giller, that circles back to gifts and authority. Are Spirit-filled believers given their own weapons to wield, or is every spiritual event done strictly by the Holy Spirit Himself? It can’t be both.
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Post by frienduff on Dec 18, 2018 14:09:09 GMT -5
Yes it is true that we cannot take credit for a healing or not, whether we were used to lay hands or not. It is always God doing the healing, but I have to reiterate something: Mar 16:15-18 (15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. These are not talking about people who call themselves Christians, yet are not, this is not talking about mental ascent so-called Christians, this is talking to true Christians. They have been given authority to cast out devils. And if there is no examples of unbelievers casting out devils, and this authority belongs only to true believers, than why go there? Why not just believe what it says? Giller , I have done decided , it don't matter what the pope or rick warren or emergents would say about ya , I loves ya giller . Besides wheat don't concern itself with what the chaff teaches . FOR all who have cast Aside Christ , WILL be as naught but chaff burned up by the very ONE they did cast aside . Its why we do all to warn men to repent and come to Christ .
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Post by frienduff on Dec 18, 2018 14:13:20 GMT -5
But again Giller, that circles back to gifts and authority. Are Spirit-filled believers given their own weapons to wield, or is every spiritual event done strictly by the Holy Spirit Himself? It can’t be both. Sis, when the mouse of our head gets to running fast , oh let us just give it a huge chunk of biblical cheese to feast and rest on . Lets not over think this . The bottom line is , WITHOUT CHRIST we can do nothing , and as paul even said , I labored more abundantely than them all, YET NOT I , But the GRACE OF GOD . I think what you said earlier is right . Time to put this thread to rest . And sister , I know I have said this more than once , But I loves ya no matter what rome would say about ya . But as I just told giller the wheat IN CHRIST , we don't concern ourselves with the opinions of chaff . Now, unless your driving , YOU LEAP UP SISTER AND PRAISE the LORD .
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Post by John on Dec 18, 2018 14:16:08 GMT -5
Yes it is true that we cannot take credit for a healing or not, whether we were used to lay hands or not. It is always God doing the healing, but I have to reiterate something: Mar 16:15-18 (15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. These are not talking about people who call themselves Christians, yet are not, this is not talking about mental ascent so-called Christians, this is talking to true Christians. They have been given authority to cast out devils. And if there is no examples of unbelievers casting out devils, and this authority belongs only to true believers, than why go there? Why not just believe what it says? It appears to me that Judas Iscariot performed miracles through Jesus' name when Jesus sent them out.
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Post by Giller on Dec 18, 2018 14:17:15 GMT -5
But again Giller, that circles back to gifts and authority. Are Spirit-filled believers given their own weapons to wield, or is every spiritual event done strictly by the Holy Spirit Himself? It can’t be both. We have authority in the name of Jesus, but it is God that confirms his word. He does the miracle, he does the healing, he casts out the devil, we are just vessels used to do the laying on of hands and so forth, we are the vessels that believe for this or that.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 18, 2018 14:17:57 GMT -5
We are in agreement about 95% here. Can’t that be good enough? I agree with Frienduff that we are getting too much in the weeds.
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Post by Giller on Dec 18, 2018 14:19:24 GMT -5
Yes it is true that we cannot take credit for a healing or not, whether we were used to lay hands or not. It is always God doing the healing, but I have to reiterate something: Mar 16:15-18 (15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. These are not talking about people who call themselves Christians, yet are not, this is not talking about mental ascent so-called Christians, this is talking to true Christians. They have been given authority to cast out devils. And if there is no examples of unbelievers casting out devils, and this authority belongs only to true believers, than why go there? Why not just believe what it says? It appears to me that Judas Iscariot performed miracles through Jesus' name when Jesus sent them out.
Yep and I believe he was a true believer at the beginning, but fell away from God later. He lost his bishopric as Acts says, and it mentions in a scripture that Christ lost none, except Judas Iscariot.
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Post by Giller on Dec 18, 2018 14:20:16 GMT -5
Well I guess we will have to let it that , God bless.
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Post by John on Dec 18, 2018 14:32:32 GMT -5
Well I guess we will have to let it that , God bless. That is possible Giller. Judas Iscariot could have started out every bit as saved as the other Apostles. Only God knows for sure. God bless you too, and it has turned out to be an interesting discussion after all.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Dec 18, 2018 15:02:37 GMT -5
Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. check out the word transgression in this passage: G3845 παραβαίνω parabainō par-ab-ah'ee-no From G3844 and the base of G939; to go contrary to, that is, violate a command: - (by) transgress (-ion). Total KJV occurrences: 4 look at the root word of this word... G939 βάσις basis bas'-ece From βαίνω bainō (to walk); a pace (“base”), that is, (by implication) the foot: - foot. Total KJV occurrences: 1
this shows Judas walked away.
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Post by justinadams on Dec 19, 2018 7:35:44 GMT -5
We are in agreement about 95% here. Can’t that be good enough? I agree with Frienduff that we are getting too much in the weeds. I learned in the south that we are often fighting alligators when the reason we are in the swamp is to drain it. This is a kinda parable to not get entangled with the inmates, just clear a path for the Lord while He closes the jaws of the Adversary. Difficult but not impossible. It will try your patience and check out the depth of your fears. Perfect Love (from the Father) will overcome if we do not try too hard to fight the battle alone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 8:31:14 GMT -5
I believe it is possible to exercise our own free will when it comes to spiritual gifts.....but we are not supposed to.....and it can taint the gift and give place to the devil. We can either exercise gifts presumptuously when the Holy Spirit has not led us to, or we can also disobey His leading when He wants us to do something. Jesus was in perfect submission to the leading of the Holy Spirit....He only ever did what He saw the Father doing (according to John 5:19), and did nothing of Himself. I think from scripture that there is room for learning and growing though, through our mistakes too, as long as it isn't a case of willful rebellion and wrong motives. Jesus discipled and taught His followers, reproving when necessary...the bible doesn't hide their mistakes and foibles and things they yet needed to learn.
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