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Post by John on Dec 31, 2018 13:25:02 GMT -5
I shared this sometime back at WCF, but I want to relate it here. I have spent more time in Romans than any other New Testament book. I was having a difficult time trying to fully understand what Paul was saying going from Romans 7 to Romans 8. I spent most of my years in churches that teach Wesleyan doctrine, and Wesley taught that Romans 7 spoke of Paul's life before he was sanctified and Romans 8 of Paul's life after he experienced the second definite work of grace called sanctification. The Baptists all claim that Romans 7 shows that we can never stop sinning, and even Paul couldn't get the victory over his flesh. I spoke to other ministers about it, and never got a satisfactory answer.
I kept praying for an answer, and it was withheld, until one day, I was listening to Romans straight through once again and I suddenly understood exactly what Paul was saying. I felt like it was right before my eyes all the time, and even felt a bit foolish for not getting it before. The only thing that made me feel better was seeing how everyone struggled with this, and most were getting it wrong. I am not going to go through the whole passages, but I will give you two verses, and then share with you what was revealed to me. This will be Romans 7:25 and Romans 8:1. This goes hand in hand with entering into the Lord's rest that I brought up in another thread. So much of the Bible came to life in a more real way once I understood this truth.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
This is the same man speaking both of these things back to back. One gives the picture of a defeated man who can't live right, and the other gives a picture of a victorious man. What happened? Was he suddenly given a second definite work of grace and sanctified? Was he still living defeated, but given a get out of hell free card? Neither. The chapters before Romans 8 are speaking of the life Paul had before coming to Christ, and the same life all the Jews who knew not Christ had, trying to live according to God's standards without the Lord. In their mind, they served God. They tried their best to keep the letter of the law and failed. They were defeated, because the law can't save you. Chapter 8 speaks of victorious living through faith in Christ. Paul discovered that through faith in Christ, not only was he saved from his sins, but Jesus gave him the power to live the victorious life. Those chapters everyone points to that show how hopeless everything is when it comes to overcoming sin is Paul explaining the difference between trying to do it on your own, and failing, as opposed to coming to Christ and no longer being condemned, but living the Spirit-led life. When he says, "with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin," that is a picture of struggling to keep all of the commandments in his own strength, apart from Christ. We don't have to continue on as a slave to sin. There is real victory in Jesus.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 31, 2018 13:56:15 GMT -5
This is very interesting. I will definitely have another look at Romans with this in mind.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 1, 2019 8:27:17 GMT -5
Paul discovered that through faith in Christ, not only was he saved from his sins, but Jesus gave him the power to live the victorious life.
I confirm this.The Baptists all claim that Romans 7 shows that we can never stop sinning... I will have to tell a quick testimony here:
Stop sinning by faith is possible, it does not mean you are perfectly sinless, it means you have nothing more to overcome at present.
In other words, there is nothing in your conscience saying:
You must forsake this, this is sin. Or you must overcome this now.
"You are My friends if you do whatever I command you." - John 15:14
"Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ..." - Romans 5:1
This means that, if you are enslaved by some sin you must seek to overcome it by faith. And your own conscience tells you that.
And when you do it, you are in peace with God. And this is true, you will have peace and you will live much better.
"...With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." - Matthew 19:26
And do not hear your friends and family. Because they will all say:
You do not need to do this, it is impossible.
"...Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men." - Matthew 16:23
"...If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me." - Matthew 16:24
"And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." - Galatians 5:24
I had at least these problems in my life:
Anger. I used to have outbursts of wrath out of nowhere, I couldn't simply stand some things and would "break" everything.
Only when I started praying and seek more love I was able to overcome that.
Masturbation. Some people say you can live with it, if you conscience tells you that, if you are sincere about it... But I decided to kill it for real, in Jesus' name.
Only when I stopped hearing the lies of those who say "It is impossible" and started believing the Word and purify my heart for real I was able to overcome it.
I can say I have overcome it, I am without masturbation for many, many months. You can definitely live much better without it.
Porn. This is hard at the start, specially for men. Some people say you can watch here and there, but I was not having peace about it.
Some people say it is impossible, do not listen to them. If you listen to friends and family you will not end well. Listen to the Word.
I can say I have overcome it, I am without it for many, many months. You can definitely live much better without it.
"Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God..." - Hebrews 3:12
"...it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe." - 1 Thessalonians 2:13
"Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth." - John 17:17
But then you may think:
You are boasting because you can do that.
I do not feel any boasting, because I just did what I had to do.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9
And if I do boast, I know I will fall soon. I have learned this.
"Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear." - Romans 11:20
I stand by faith, not on my own.
"...and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God..." - Ephesians 2:8
"He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you." - John 16:14
Then, I am fully convinced that there is no limit to the power of God in sanctifying those who believe. Those who believe.
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek." - Romans 1:16
Then I tell these things that you may be encouraged and believe.
Because you will live much better without sin, even if it does not seem so right now.
"What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death." - Romans 6:21
"...exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." - Hebrews 3:13Blessings in Jesus' name!
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jan 1, 2019 12:14:21 GMT -5
here is an interesting fact about that passage... who shall deliver me from this body of death...
the body of death was a death sentence back in those days... FOR ROYALTY. Jesus was crucified, he was given a common folks death sentence. the body of death is where the took you out several days journey into the desert on the back of an animal, so its much further on foot. they would strip you naked and somehow chain/strap a dead body to you, back to back. you would not be able to get it off you. this dead body was dead weight. it would weigh you down and weary you. weaken you. tire you out. as the dead body rotted you would surely have a reaction in your skin. as the buzzards ate the dead body they would most likely be eating on you while alive. and that sun would be cooking that body too.
the author of romans is pointing to this dead weight as our sin and flesh weighing us down. killing us.
But Jesus is the "Who" that shall deliver us from our own body of death Paul speaks on. If you meditate on this type of death sentence and scripture for a while it will bring some clarity to many things.
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Post by frienduff on Jan 1, 2019 15:00:19 GMT -5
If we have a well rounded rightly dividing of the scriptures we see romans seven would never allow a mindset that we are just going to remain in sin powerless against it . So that teaching many teach can get kicked right out the door . For paul said in numerous places , IF we follow the SPIRIT we will NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh . The sin that sins , is in our flesh , IT causes the lust and its evil is awlays present . BUT , IF we walk after the SPIRIT we wont fulfill its lusts , NOW WOULD WE . NOPE . Romans seven is so misunderstood , because in truth , most don't read their bibles over and over again with love . IT would come together in time . For notice paul said , there is now therefore NO condemnation to those who are Christs and walk AFTER THE SPIRIT and NOT THE FLESH . Meaning ifwe HIS , we will walk after the spirit . WE got the power we need to overcome the evil of our flesh which does tempt us . But do notice paul never said their is no condemnation to those who may HOLLA JESUS name , YET WALK in willfull sin after the flesh . HE made it a point to say , who walk after the spirit , and he made lt a point to say ,AND NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT after the flesh . Many pastors are beguiling many , and cannot cease from sin and they do teach a powerless gospel , WHICH IS NO GOSPLE . CAUES JESUS , HE , HE SETS FOLKS FREE . HE don't leave them with a hope that all can sin and we cant stop sinning . NOPE HE always said NOW GO and SIN NOOOO MORE . PAUL said it too . LET all who name the name of CHRIST depart from inquity . LET not these things BE ONCE , notice it was BE NOT NAMED ONCE among you as becometh saints . Folks we either learn JESUS or we learn men . But I warn us all and remind us all, JESUS SHEEP LEARN ONLY OF HIM and a strangers voice , OH THEY FLEE THAT STENCH .
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Post by John on Feb 23, 2019 18:30:52 GMT -5
I want to take a moment to return to Romans 8:1, which is a very important verse that is often misused. People will take this verse and use it to say that those who are saved are no longer condemned, but what does the verse actually say?
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
This verse has been used by some to say there is no condemnation to those who are Christians. It is used by others to say there is no condemnation to those who are sanctified as a second definite work of grace. The verse says there is no condemnation to:
1 Them which are in Christ Jesus 2 Those who walk not after the flesh 3 Who walk after the Spirit.
If you are feeling condemned, you need to ask yourself if you meet all three of these conditions? If you are feeling condemned, take the matter to Jesus and make confession and ask him for his help.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Feb 24, 2019 8:58:42 GMT -5
If you’re walking in the Spirit and doing what God would have you do, how could He condemn you? This is how we escape the danger of condemnation — by no longer living for the flesh. It’s rather like saying “people who stop eating poison will stop getting sick.”
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Post by 2fw8212a on Feb 24, 2019 9:03:09 GMT -5
This is how we escape the danger of condemnation — by no longer living for the flesh. "Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" - 1 John 5:5Living is believing!
Blessings in Jesus' name!
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Post by John on Feb 24, 2019 9:39:16 GMT -5
If you’re walking in the Spirit and doing what God would have you do, how could He condemn you? This is how we escape the danger of condemnation — by no longer living for the flesh. It’s rather like saying “people who stop eating poison will stop getting sick.” That is a great way to explain.
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