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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 9:26:02 GMT -5
There is a lot in scripture that teaches us about the wilderness, actually. For example, the Israelites were led through a wilderness on their way to the Promised Land. We learn from the mistakes that the Israelites made so that we don't repeat them, or if we do, so that we'll repent. In one sense our whole life on earth is a wilderness, we are just sojourners here and don't feel at home.....our flesh nature is being crucified and starved and thirsted to death because ti doesn't get what it craves, thankfully. As well there are those testing periods of dryness, where our faith is tested. The Israelites feared and didn't trust that God couldn't provide water for them during one such test......but He was able to make water gush from the Rock.....He proved Himself to them by experience. There are so many wonderful lessons in His word. Another thing is that when the Israelites were craving meat to feed their flesh SO badly, God let them have so much it was coming out their nostrils and they grew sick of it...that's a good place to be in the Lord when we're finally sick to death of some aspect of ourselves, our flesh nature, and finally lay it down on the altar. Many ways the Lord has to deal with His people and help us along the Way. No pain, no gain.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 9, 2019 10:01:00 GMT -5
I’m not trying to argue on this, but I need to understand something. It doesn’t seem to me that the wilderness is a place of spiritual dryness.
Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. — Hebrews 3:8-9
God was present working daily miraculous signs for the Hebrews in the wilderness. They fell because they refused to believe the works of God’s hand, not because they saw no works.
The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. — Mark 1:3-5
John was seeing conversions from his ministry in the wilderness. He was preaching and baptizing. Big crowds of people were repenting. They left the city to come and find him in the wilderness. Nowhere does the Bible suggest that John couldn’t feel God’s presence in this time.
And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered. — Luke 4:1-2
The Spirit led Him into the wilderness, not for a season of the Spirit disappearing, but for a season of temptation. None of the gospels say the Spirit went quiet during this time.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 9, 2019 10:57:48 GMT -5
It seems to me that the wilderness is a time of suppressing carnal human appetites so we will hunger and thirst for spiritual things. We are removed from luxuries this world has to offer. Not that we must trudge ahead without God’s voice, but that we may remove worldly influences and learn to accept His help.
The clearest example I can find of “God going quiet” is when Jesus fell asleep on the way to Gaderenes. The disciples woke Him up because they thought He was oblivious to their plight.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 11:08:57 GMT -5
Yes...the Israelites are our ensample, that we would learn from. The flesh is prone to forgetting what God did in the past when faced with a new test. God teaches and disciples His people, we aren't "born" into the kingdom knowing and doing all things right. We learn of the Lord through both His word and by experiencing Him. Like we were just looking at Peter, one of the disciples.
Jesus was denying His flesh in the wilderness...much like the flesh of the Israelites was being denied in the wilderness.....there are times when we don't hear from or "feel" the Lord....this was pictured when the Israelites were thirsting and wondering if the Lord could be trusted to keep them alive in the drought conditions they found themselves in, and some were tempted to go back to "Egypt" like Jesus was being tempted to trust in the temporal and gain the whole world and bypass the cross.
Times when we don't hear or feel Him, doesn't mean He isn't there.......no, that is part of the whole point to learn to walk by faith, not by sight or by feelings. Times like that our roots are growing deeper in Him in spirit to find water...because there is none to be had anywhere else but from Him. He is the same yesterday, today, forever, whether our senses are perceiving Him or not. We are to trust Him and His word regardless, and we do go through those times of being tested and tried. Jesus was God.....but He went through things and had to overcome His weak flesh the same as we do, as an example and forerunner for us.
There is a kind of irony in that the wilderness tests us and is also concurrently the place where that which is of the Spirit is being born in us.....so yes after the dryness and testing and trying, fruit comes forth.
Isa 43:19-21 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen. This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.
Praise the Lord....I wonder how long John spent in hiddenness and seclusion with the Lord in that wilderness before he began ministering. Moses was 40 years in his wilderness before he was sent to go navigate the Israelites through that very same wilderness he had come to know like the back of his hand.
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Post by John on Jan 9, 2019 13:44:42 GMT -5
You are forced to walk by faith during those times. I have seen many people think that God abandoned them because they didn't feel his presence like in times past.
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Post by frienduff on Jan 9, 2019 14:10:57 GMT -5
We in the wilderness and have been . Let us go therefore unto the wilderness . Wilderness time does mean ISOLATION cause paul and the people always said exhort one another daily . Times of trials can be found when we seem alone or etc . LIKE paul , when he was n prison , at one point all had fled him . YET JESUS WAS RIGHT their the whole time . The one thing we must be careful of is THINKING we need to be totally isolated . That was never encouraged by the early church . they even went out two by two. Sometimes yes , paul would walk alone to the next spot . but always it was encouraged to have fellowship , JUST MAKE SURE its TRUE FELLOWSHIP and not with those in willfull error who claim to be brethren . With those no , don't even eat , as paul would remind . For correction purpose and for safety of the others too . But believe me , if we are following Christ , we in the wilderness and eat not at the tabernacles made of men . We don't heed or follow those who teach error and mix. we gather with those who PUT JESUS FIRST above all , and we exhort and build up and correct and rebuke too. Man, butero is lit on fire , he now has two thousand and eighty four posts . But its time to exhort more than ever . Onward my friends , Onward in the LORD .
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Post by frienduff on Jan 9, 2019 14:13:32 GMT -5
You are forced to walk by faith during those times. I have seen many people think that God abandoned them because they didn't feel his presence like in times past.
And always remember , seek , knock and ask , press in , seek , seek seek . Keep pressing in and better we learn fast , don't just be hearers , but BE DOERS of the word . Lots of folks burn out , cause they aint doers of the word , but rather just seekers of feelings . WORKS perfect FAITH . I think folks forget that . And most have forgotten Faith without works IS DEAD .
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 14:15:38 GMT -5
It seems to me that the wilderness is a time of suppressing carnal human appetites so we will hunger and thirst for spiritual things. We are removed from luxuries this world has to offer. Not that we must trudge ahead without God’s voice, but that we may remove worldly influences and learn to accept His help. The clearest example I can find of “God going quiet” is when Jesus fell asleep on the way to Gaderenes. The disciples woke Him up because they thought He was oblivious to their plight. I dont' see the new testament dealing with these things in much detail either sister....we glean it more from the old testament. But we might be able to see examples in some of the following..? Jesus often went off on His own to pray, leaving the disciples alone.......He also sent His disciples out to minister without Him........they also must have felt bereft and alone after He had been crucified before the resurrection......and also after He ascended, for the period of time before the Holy Spirit was poured out like a river on their dry land. Jesus Himself on the cross cried out Father, Father why have you forsaken me. Times when we feel forsaken too....so that some part of our flesh nature will die. There are times and seasons in the life of a believer....mountaintops and valley times and everything in between. Our life in the Lord is a pilgrimmage and the Lord leads us through all these places and seasons like sheep through the dry wilderness leading us to a green pasture (which were few and far between in ancient Israel), according to His will for each individual....He is the Potter and we are the clay, and He is fashioning each one into a vessel according to His purposes and the calling of each one. He tests and tries His workmanship like a good craftsman...to show up anything that is still wobbly or needs reshaping etc, and then He will get to work on it some more. Nobody is exempt because even the fruitful branches He prunes to make them even more fruitful, and the whole process is designed to keep us humble as well. We will be all the more glad to get to heaven after all that, won't we, whew! And I think that is even part of the purpose.
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Post by frienduff on Jan 9, 2019 14:26:03 GMT -5
Trials , hardships , perescutions , they will help us only grow and trust the LORD even more . The rock which followed them , SHOULD be the perfect example . I mean they got thirsty so even in a place where no water was , THE ROCK PROVIDED WATER . So man would learn , We do not live by the physical bread or water only, BUT BY EVERY WORD of GOD . He humbled them so as they would learn this . And He humbles all his children . Our confidence should be IN GOD ALONE . TRUST in GOD alone . HOPE n GOD ALONE . We should get to the point fast , that no matter what comes against us , even if we were running for our lives through a dry Nevada desert . STILL GOD would be with us and still HE would provide us water and bread out of an impossible place for their to be such things . GOD spoke the world and all into existence . HE CAN provide , in the darkest hour we will soon see . I got that trust . I believe if we were on the run in the Kalahari desert , no trees , no water , no food period . But if God saw we had a need to survive . JUST LIKE with Jonah , A tree could sprout up in an intant , with both fruit to eat and water todrink. What I mean is , I TRULY BELEIVE HE COULD DO THAT . What I don't trust is , IN MY OWN abilities , and sure as heck not the n the beast system and its mark . In fact I had sooner BE On the run , with sun burns and thirst and suffering , than to take that wicked thing and live a king in this world . But the point to this is , WHY WORRY OVER ANYTHING . GOD IS IN CONTROL and no matter what we suffer , WE GOT ALL HOPE No need to worry if we in desert , God will keep us . I cannot explain the TOTAL peace of mind this gives . TO TRUST IN THE LORD is GREAT PEACE .
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Post by frienduff on Jan 9, 2019 14:33:54 GMT -5
I will not forget this either . LORD I believe HELP thou My unbelief . OH . HE WILL HEAR IT . His desire is SOLID FAITH IN ONLY HIM . Lord I believe , HELP THOU my unbelief . THE LORD WILL give us the desires of our heart , FOR HE even gave us a new heart with those desires TO PLEASE HIM . We need to start only increasing our praying , reading , and being both hearers and doers of ALL that our LORD has said . FIATH will blossom , rivers will flow and the people will be prepared unto every good work and for every trial . IN and BY THE LORD . We will be betrayed in the time ahead . When I say betrayed , I aint talking with just some words . I MEAN unto even death .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 9, 2019 18:44:44 GMT -5
I did find this:
How long wilt thou forget me, O Lord? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me? How long shall I take counsel in my soul, having sorrow in my heart daily? how long shall mine enemy be exalted over me? Consider and hear me, O Lord my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death — Psalms 13:1-3
O Lord, how long shall I cry, and thou wilt not hear! even cry out unto thee of violence, and thou wilt not save! — Habakkuk 1:2
I waited patiently for the Lord; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry. — Psalms 40:1
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 19:09:38 GMT -5
Trials , hardships , perescutions , they will help us only grow and trust the LORD even more . The rock which followed them , SHOULD be the perfect example . I mean they got thirsty so even in a place where no water was , THE ROCK PROVIDED WATER . So man would learn , We do not live by the physical bread or water only, BUT BY EVERY WORD of GOD . He humbled them so as they would learn this . And He humbles all his children . Our confidence should be IN GOD ALONE . TRUST in GOD alone . HOPE n GOD ALONE . We should get to the point fast , that no matter what comes against us , even if we were running for our lives through a dry Nevada desert . STILL GOD would be with us and still HE would provide us water and bread out of an impossible place for their to be such things . GOD spoke the world and all into existence . HE CAN provide , in the darkest hour we will soon see . I got that trust . I believe if we were on the run in the Kalahari desert , no trees , no water , no food period . But if God saw we had a need to survive . JUST LIKE with Jonah , A tree could sprout up in an intant , with both fruit to eat and water todrink. What I mean is , I TRULY BELEIVE HE COULD DO THAT . What I don't trust is , IN MY OWN abilities , and sure as heck not the n the beast system and its mark . In fact I had sooner BE On the run , with sun burns and thirst and suffering , than to take that wicked thing and live a king in this world . But the point to this is , WHY WORRY OVER ANYTHING . GOD IS IN CONTROL and no matter what we suffer , WE GOT ALL HOPE No need to worry if we in desert , God will keep us . I cannot explain the TOTAL peace of mind this gives . TO TRUST IN THE LORD is GREAT PEACE . Praise the Lord....amen.
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Post by discipler777 on Jan 10, 2019 0:23:26 GMT -5
To add to the OP's good post, it is quite easy and not burdensome for Gentiles to be saved from hell and not fall away from the faith = believe in Jesus Christ and keep His commandments/laws/Word, as per JOHN.3:14-18 and ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25.
It also helps for them to have a Study Bible that are used by Bible College students and online Bible references.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 10, 2019 10:37:59 GMT -5
There’s definitely a balance that comes with studying Scripture. We don’t want to follow the academic traditions of men, but neither should we read with an unlearned, superstitious mind that can’t chew meat. One extreme is as bad as the other. A diligent, thoughtful study regimen sensitive to Holy Spirit guidance will grow the best fruit.
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