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Post by Giller on Jan 21, 2019 12:04:37 GMT -5
A lot of the times, I find in most modern day churches, the body is really not stirred up to go out and make disciples after Christ, but what people usually get stirred up towards, is to tell people to go to church or bring them to church instead of preaching the gospel.
It seems like a one man show.
And besides, the saying go to church is not biblical, yes we must gather with the church, but we cannot go to church because we are the church.
But that is a big message being said to unbelievers, go to church, come see my pastor preach, rather than pointing them to Jesus.
It becomes a works, and merits gospel.
And the preachers are being idolized.
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Post by Giller on Jan 21, 2019 12:12:15 GMT -5
And for the most part , it really is not a body ministry, it is primarily a leadership ministry, but not a body ministry.
Which is not good.
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2019 12:56:44 GMT -5
These gifts as a whole are given to accomplish these things. They work together for that purpose. You downplayed "for the work of the ministry." The primary function of an evangelist is to win the lost, but sadly, most today don't do that. They spend their time trying to stir up the saved congregation, so their real calling is neglected.
I would have to disagree, but anyhow I do believe that evangelists can be, and do get used in the capacity you said, but as the word says they are there to perfect the saints, if it says so, it says so, they preach the gospel. But I do agree with your statement on what Apostles , prophets and pastors (with exception of some of the titles) are called for. What I am saying is that I don't agree with you that the Bible says evangelists purpose is to perfect the saints. I believe it is speaking of what the 5 fold ministry gifts do as a whole for the church. If a church operates properly, and you have all the gifts working together, all the things mentioned will get done. I am not interpreting this as you are, so it is not as simple as claiming the Bible says it, thus it is so.
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Post by Giller on Jan 21, 2019 13:00:30 GMT -5
And when we get prepared for the work of the ministry, which is Christ's ministry, it leads us into doing things like setting the captives free and so forth.
We get prepared to be able to minister to unbelievers, but also to one another.
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2019 13:04:51 GMT -5
A lot of the times, I find in most modern day churches, the body is really not stirred up to go out and make disciples after Christ, but what people usually get stirred up towards, is to tell people to go to church or bring them to church instead of preaching the gospel. It seems like a one man show. And besides, the saying go to church is not biblical, yes we must gather with the church, but we cannot go to church because we are the church. But that is a big message being said to unbelievers, go to church, come see my pastor preach, rather than pointing them to Jesus. It becomes a works, and merits gospel. And the preachers are being idolized. I see that too, and it is something I want to see corrected, but you do that by having all the gifts in operation. You have people being given a chance to fulfil their offices. The Apostles work out of the church and go to areas that have not received the gospel, the win the lost, and establish churches. You have evangelists going to places with the purpose of reaching the lost, like the crusades and tent revivals of times past. And yes, they do send them to the local church they work out of. Then you have the Prophets, who will sometimes share anointed messages that God gave them to deal with an issue taking place at that time, or they may have a word for word message from the Lord. The Pastor is the shepherd over the place, and he preaches messages to help the people in their everyday walk, and he looks after the congregation. If he sees danger, he warns them. Then you have teachers, that will instruct in doctrine.
In an ideal church, you have many people working together. You can have more than one person that has a calling to the same office, like multiple Pastors or Teachers or Evangelists or Apostles or Prophets. A well run church will allow all to do their ministries, and this doesn't even take into account the people that are in place to deal with the everyday carnal needs of the church, that I haven't gotten to. Those are your Bishops, Deacons and Elders. Letters brought up additional positions that people are called to that I didn't get to either.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 21, 2019 13:07:40 GMT -5
If an evangelist is given to show the body how to witness to people, wouldn’t that just be teaching?
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2019 13:10:06 GMT -5
And when we get prepared for the work of the ministry, which is Christ's ministry, it leads us into doing things like setting the captives free and so forth. We get prepared to be able to minister to unbelievers, but also to one another. I do believe a person can have multiple callings, and the ability to do things that are outside of his or her direct calling. I am not trying to limit a person who is an evangelist to never being able to do anything but try to win the lost. I am just saying that is what the office is about. I have been called as a Pastor and Teacher. I have had cases where I believe I was used as a Prophet in the sense of having been given a topic to preach on for a given service, and I have had the Lord lead me as I prepared the message. That is quite different from being used to give a word for word message. My own thoughts could get mixed in, and it is quite different from foretelling of future events. I have never been used like that. You could be an evangelist, but have other gifts.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 21, 2019 13:10:18 GMT -5
My family came to Jesus through some grandparents who were invited to a revival. Their daughter was miraculously healed during service, and the family all got saved.
Yes there can be an over-reliance on inviting people to listen to some rock music and a celebrity pastor. If that’s all church is, visiting such a church won’t help. But lost people do get saved when they visit churches.
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2019 13:22:10 GMT -5
My family came to Jesus through some grandparents who were invited to a revival. Their daughter was miraculously healed during service, and the family all got saved. Yes there can be an over-reliance on inviting people to listen to some rock music and a celebrity pastor. If that’s all church is, visiting such a church won’t help. But lost people do get saved when they visit churches. God can reach out and save a person through all different means. In my case, it was a radio preacher. I heard of someone getting saved as a result of watching "Jesus Christ, Superstar." It was an unbeliever, and that movie, bad as it was, got them seeking to learn about Jesus and led to them getting saved. People get saved in the regular worship services at church, and a Sunday School teacher can lead children to the Lord. God can reach a person any way he wishes to.
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Post by frienduff on Jan 21, 2019 13:24:46 GMT -5
Paul called timothy what . He said do the work of an evangelist. NOW look at what paul told timothy , He taught him how to INSTRUCT the church . How the Church should be, how to rebuke how to exhort , how to instruct . Timothy had the call of an evangelist . paul made it clear he did . Now let all rejoice in the LORD and in the LORD let all rejoice .
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2019 13:31:32 GMT -5
Paul called timothy what . He said do the work of an evangelist. NOW look at what paul told timothy , He taught him how to INSTRUCT the church . How the Church should be, how to rebuke how to exhort , how to instruct . Timothy had the call of an evangelist . paul made it clear he did . Now let all rejoice in the LORD and in the LORD let all rejoice . It shows you can do things outside of your direct calling to make full proof of your ministry. There is a scripture about deacons being deserving of double honor if they minister in the Word, but not all deacons do.
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Post by Giller on Jan 21, 2019 13:49:57 GMT -5
Oh I agree with people getting saved in services and so on, and yes Apostles tend to establish churches, but they are called to perfect the saints, as Paul did over and over again.
I even agree with tent meetings.
All 5 fold are called to perfect the saints for it says so, but I believe there is a capacity to also be used towards unbelievers such as an Apostle leading many unbelievers to Christ , and then establishing a church from them, but also Apostles are types of overseers of the church.
But to say that an evangelist is not there to perfect the saints when it says so, how can you get around what it says?
But anyhow I am at least glad that we see at least that they can in some way be used in both capacities.
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Post by frienduff on Jan 21, 2019 13:50:40 GMT -5
AND LET ALL be faithful TO THE LORD . One thing I have known for years , by grace , is I don't need a title of what I am. I just need to do as the SPIRIT BIDS . In other words , some or very few I should say ,thought I was an apostel , some thought I should be a pastor , most say an exhorter and a few say a prophet . BUT I don't need a label to do the will of GOD . I just need to follow HIM . Does this make sense . My best guess is exhorter . but nevertheless, whatever it is , I just need to obey CHRIST . For even without a title I can and will do the office GOD has called me to do . What I mean is , I don't seek the title or recognition or prememinence of men at all. ITS JUST A SIMPLY JOY to FOLLOW THE LORD and exhort others to do the same. So whatever my call, what matters is simply THIS , LET THE ONLY ONE WHO CALLED ME BE EXALTED . I bet yall understand this too . ITS ALL ABOUT CHRIST and whatever else needs burning out , OH let it be burned out . In the end what matters and will have mattered , IS WHO did we follow , WHO DID WE LOVE . OH LET IT BE THE LORD ABOVE ALL . NOW , hands up and praise the LORD . Whatever my gift , it has a bull dogs determination against any lies and falsehoods . Just a desire to see the lambs learn and grow and be kept safe in CHRIST and ONLY IN CHRIST .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 21, 2019 13:54:15 GMT -5
Oh I agree with people getting saved in services and so on, and yes Apostles tend to establish churches, but they are called to perfect the saints, as Paul did over and over again. I even agree with tent meetings. All 5 fold are called to perfect the saints for it says so, but I believe there is a capacity to also be used towards unbelievers such as an Apostle leading many unbelievers to Christ , and then establishing a church from them, but also Apostles are types of overseers of the church. But to say that an evangelist is not there to perfect the saints when it says so, how can you get around what it says? But anyhow I am at least glad that we see at least that they can in some way be used in both capacities. I don’t think anyone is trying to “get around” what the Bible says. It’s just a matter of being confused. If the definition of evangelist is somone who engages the lost to win conversions, then how is this person perfecting the saints? Either evanglist means something else or perfecting the saints means something ele. This forces us to change the definition of evangelist. But we change evangelist to mean teacher, then it just means teacher. So does the word evangelist mean one who witnesses to the lost, or does it not?
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Post by frienduff on Jan 21, 2019 14:01:22 GMT -5
Sister Candace you and the others are loved . hands up sisters and brothers and let all praise the LORD with hearts of thankfulness unto HE who has called us out of darkness and into His light . And let all be on guard against the wiles of the deceiver who has many deceivers at work with him . We about to see the climatic end that all was foretold . Let us get dug in deep in sound doctrine and armour up with all the amour of the LORD . For a great river of delusion swells the minds of men gone wrong , and soon a fire will burn through the land and against the saints who resisted the lie . Oh the fiery trials of our faith , will come blasting in and the true lambs will rejoice in the LORD no matter what comes against them. FOR THEY know , whatever comes against them GOD is only working for their good . OH let all rejoice in the LORD and in the LORD let all rejoice . THIER IS TRULY ALL HOPE N THE LORD . OH praise His name .
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