|
Post by frienduff on Feb 10, 2019 19:50:51 GMT -5
You are speaking of what you observed at individual churches. I am saying that America as a nation has all kinds of welfare programs to help the poor. Most of the people you see that are homeless and standing on street corners are spending their nights in Motels because they are handed money all day long by people passing by. Among the beggars in this country, I haven't seen any that were skin and bones looking like they were starving to death.
Maybe people aren't getting help because they don't ask for it? We had a guy come into our church who couldn't pay his utility bill, and someone in the church paid it for him. That is because he asked. Nobody took credit for it, but it was taken care of. If nobody noticed you, why didn't you get their attention? Why didn't you walk into their church? I wouldn't have turned a homeless man away had they come into my church. Some of these criticisms seem unfair to me. Now I realize there are churches where you would have been turned away or seen as undesirable. I have no doubt of that, but I feel confident that wouldn't have been true everywhere.
i have walked into churches. it was well known i was living in the woods in a tent, if i had one. or squatting in a condemned house. even cops knew, and i was homeless for a couple years as a minor. even when i told the cops they would look at each other, put me in the car and act like they heard nothing. word gets around in a small town. but all i ever got was thats horrible. i never panhandled, not even once. a good bit of people you see panhandling make more than you do Butero. they can afford to sleep in motels. and they dont care, its free money. i did try to get peoples attention... perhaps it was God bringing me to that low point in life where i would call out to Him. I will say that is a possibility.
all the churches in a community need to collaborate and build one storehouse/soupkitchen for the poor. and a thrift shop for clothes. donations feed it all. and not just money. toilet paper, everything. get involved in local radio stations for advertisement. even take old furniture for donations. there needs to be a building for homeless people to stay at if rules are followed. they help out and there can even be paid positions. volunteers. and even people doing community service ordered by court. sell donations cheap but also give out vouchers for food and clothes. each church should have one person on a board. lunch and dinner should be served daily. people who are more trustworthy that need lodging long term can be used to oversee certain tasks such as meals prepared served etc. if possible there needs to be counseling for people who need it. there needs to be prayer before meals. there needs to be bible studies and someone who can serve as a chaplin or preacher.
this kind of place is where you will find those who are downtrodden, problems, broken, etc. the churches job... ekklesia... not a building is not just to go to a building and hope folks show up so they can preach to them. people want to say its not about being fed going to church... what can you do for your church?
does God change? of course not, and yes that was a loaded question. we know God is the same yesterday today and forever. you know how i always speak on Deuteronomy round about chapter 30 concerning free will? well when i labored in the storehouse God showed me things concerning that passage... including...
Deu 28:8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Deu 28:9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways. Deu 28:10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee. Deu 28:11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee. Deu 28:12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
look that word up concerning treasure in verse 12...H214 אוֹצָר 'ôtsâr o-tsaw' From H686; a depository: - armory, cellar, garner, store(-house), treasure (-house) (-y). Total KJV occurrences: 79
Luk 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Pro 19:17 He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.
Ecc 11:1 Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days. Ecc 11:2 Give a portion to seven, and also to eight; for thou knowest not what evil shall be upon the earth. Ecc 11:3 If the clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth: and if the tree fall toward the south, or toward the north, in the place where the tree falleth, there it shall be. Ecc 11:4 He that observeth the wind shall not sow; and he that regardeth the clouds shall not reap. Ecc 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all. Ecc 11:6 In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand: for thou knowest not whether shall prosper, either this or that, or whether they both shall be alike good.
every single day when you walk out your front door... you are entering the mission field. and in the verse from Deuteronomy God is saying if we obey He will command we be blessed in the storehouse... and even later that God will open His storehouse... in Job it talks about storehouses of snow and hail... but in Deuteronomy God promises the rain. the former rain was for seeds to sprout... the latter rain was to "poof" up the grains they grew. this passage implies there is a storehouse of man. that it exists. to obey a storehouse must exist, but they are few. but as i said previously, many say... we just are not set up for that. i have spoken of God speaking thru my mouth scripture, the gospel and then prayer and hundreds got saved. this was all one person at a time. a good bit of this was at the storehouse i worked in... and yet, the head guy there told me the same thing but about preaching the word or having a chapel... we are not set up for that. I am so tired of hearing those words... i can only imagine how God feels... because those words were to Him as well. whether they realize it or not.
there is much the church could be doing today and is not. but who am i? i am just a no body who used to eat out of dumpsters. no one wants to listen to me. everyone else has their degrees and went to seminary. i dont come with a letter. i just speak whats on my heart because of God. and i hear... we arent set up for that.... but God sent me... God used me there. but maybe preachers cant be had there because there is no tithe for them? I prayed God, i want my reward on the other side of eternity... not one dime, and He sent me there. the church is failing in lots of aspects today. and its because people want to go their own way.
I am not trying to speak on whats fair, but whats the right thing to do as the church. the laborers are few.
Rejoice , CLETUS , REJIOCE that we were not raised in theologies of mens seminaries . REJOICE that we are not seen as wise by many . Rejoice and leap for joy when most think we are dumb and unlearned. For the wisdom of GOD is foolishness to those who are mighty and wise in their own sight . They have built up their own pedastools and love the praise and recognition of men , to be seen and love titles like DR , DR , RABBI , REJOICE that we are not accepted by men . REJOICE that we are cast out . REJIOCE that we seem as fools to the wise . For they are wise IN THEIR OWN SIGHT . And praise the LORD , for though we may seem as ignorant , for though we know we know not all, IN CHRIST we KNOW THE ONE WHO DOES KNOW ALL. AND HIS Wisdom given us in CHRIST is a honey to the soul , as a flavor that no taste can compare too. REJOICE CLETUS . OH I SAY REJOICE .
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Feb 10, 2019 19:52:59 GMT -5
There’s no doubt that the majority of churches fail to execute in the area of charity, for one reason or another. I’ve never seen public assistance programs as an excuse for Christian individuals to fail in their duty. todays sermon was on Corinthians 13. And the charity which comes From GOD , rejoices IN TRUTH and not inquity . YOU put those hands up , Cletus , and PRAISE the HOLY LORD .
|
|
Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
|
Post by Cletus on Feb 10, 2019 19:53:28 GMT -5
i have walked into churches. it was well known i was living in the woods in a tent, if i had one. or squatting in a condemned house. even cops knew, and i was homeless for a couple years as a minor. even when i told the cops they would look at each other, put me in the car and act like they heard nothing. word gets around in a small town. but all i ever got was thats horrible. i never panhandled, not even once. a good bit of people you see panhandling make more than you do Butero. they can afford to sleep in motels. and they dont care, its free money. i did try to get peoples attention... perhaps it was God bringing me to that low point in life where i would call out to Him. I will say that is a possibility.
all the churches in a community need to collaborate and build one storehouse/soupkitchen for the poor. and a thrift shop for clothes. donations feed it all. and not just money. toilet paper, everything. get involved in local radio stations for advertisement. even take old furniture for donations. there needs to be a building for homeless people to stay at if rules are followed. they help out and there can even be paid positions. volunteers. and even people doing community service ordered by court. sell donations cheap but also give out vouchers for food and clothes. each church should have one person on a board. lunch and dinner should be served daily. people who are more trustworthy that need lodging long term can be used to oversee certain tasks such as meals prepared served etc. if possible there needs to be counseling for people who need it. there needs to be prayer before meals. there needs to be bible studies and someone who can serve as a chaplin or preacher.
this kind of place is where you will find those who are downtrodden, problems, broken, etc. the churches job... ekklesia... not a building is not just to go to a building and hope folks show up so they can preach to them. people want to say its not about being fed going to church... what can you do for your church?
does God change? of course not, and yes that was a loaded question. we know God is the same yesterday today and forever. you know how i always speak on Deuteronomy round about chapter 30 concerning free will? well when i labored in the storehouse God showed me things concerning that passage... including...
Deu 28:8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Deu 28:9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways. Deu 28:10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee. Deu 28:11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee. Deu 28:12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
look that word up concerning treasure in verse 12...H214 אוֹצָר 'ôtsâr o-tsaw' From H686; a depository: - armory, cellar, garner, store(-house), treasure (-house) (-y). Total KJV occurrences: 79
Luk 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Pro 19:17 He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.
Ecc 11:1 Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days. Ecc 11:2 Give a portion to seven, and also to eight; for thou knowest not what evil shall be upon the earth. Ecc 11:3 If the clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth: and if the tree fall toward the south, or toward the north, in the place where the tree falleth, there it shall be. Ecc 11:4 He that observeth the wind shall not sow; and he that regardeth the clouds shall not reap. Ecc 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all. Ecc 11:6 In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand: for thou knowest not whether shall prosper, either this or that, or whether they both shall be alike good.
every single day when you walk out your front door... you are entering the mission field. and in the verse from Deuteronomy God is saying if we obey He will command we be blessed in the storehouse... and even later that God will open His storehouse... in Job it talks about storehouses of snow and hail... but in Deuteronomy God promises the rain. the former rain was for seeds to sprout... the latter rain was to "poof" up the grains they grew. this passage implies there is a storehouse of man. that it exists. to obey a storehouse must exist, but they are few. but as i said previously, many say... we just are not set up for that. i have spoken of God speaking thru my mouth scripture, the gospel and then prayer and hundreds got saved. this was all one person at a time. a good bit of this was at the storehouse i worked in... and yet, the head guy there told me the same thing but about preaching the word or having a chapel... we are not set up for that. I am so tired of hearing those words... i can only imagine how God feels... because those words were to Him as well. whether they realize it or not.
there is much the church could be doing today and is not. but who am i? i am just a no body who used to eat out of dumpsters. no one wants to listen to me. everyone else has their degrees and went to seminary. i dont come with a letter. i just speak whats on my heart because of God. and i hear... we arent set up for that.... but God sent me... God used me there. but maybe preachers cant be had there because there is no tithe for them? I prayed God, i want my reward on the other side of eternity... not one dime, and He sent me there. the church is failing in lots of aspects today. and its because people want to go their own way.
I am not trying to speak on whats fair, but whats the right thing to do as the church. the laborers are few.
Rejoice , CLETUS , REJIOCE that we were not raised in theologies of mens seminaries . REJOICE that we are not seen as wise by many . Rejoice and leap for joy when most think we are dumb and unlearned. For the wisdom of GOD is foolishness to those who are mighty and wise in their own sight . They have built up their own pedastools and love the praise and recognition of men , to be seen and love titles like DR , DR , RABBI , REJOICE that we are not accepted by men . REJOICE that we are cast out . REJIOCE that we seem as fools to the wise . For they are wise IN THEIR OWN SIGHT . And praise the LORD , for though we may seem as ignorant , for though we know we know not all, IN CHRIST we KNOW THE ONE WHO DOES KNOW ALL. AND HIS Wisdom given us in CHRIST is a honey to the soul , as a flavor that no taste can compare too. REJOICE CLETUS . OH I SAY REJOICE .
and its these people who society has cast off that God cares for and loves and we should seek them.
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Feb 10, 2019 20:01:31 GMT -5
For He showed strength with His arm , he has scattered the proud in the imagination of their own hearts . He has put down the mighty from their seats , and exalted them of low degree. He has filled the hungry with good things , and the rich has he sent away empty. He has holpen his servant Israel , in remembrance of His mercy As He spoke to our fathers , to Abraham and to his seed forever . THAT is the promise . CHRIST the savoir and redeemer of all who do believe .
|
|
|
Post by John on Feb 11, 2019 6:49:29 GMT -5
I think you have good ideas for potential ministries Cletus, but there is no New Testament scripture I know of that indicates the church must set up a storehouse like that, and there is no indication that the New Testament church ever did anything close to that. Even when it came to helping out widows, they were very frugal about who qualified. When I read about storehouses in the Old Testament, I believe it is speaking of how God will bless individuals where they will have plenty in their personal storehouses. There is nothing to indicate that Israel had huge storehouses set up for the poor and homeless. I don't see that anywhere in the Bible.
Going back to your ideas, I think they are good ones. They certainly are a way of doing alms. In our town, we actually have a ministry they call a Storehouse for Jesus. I have a cousin that does volunteer work there. I have no problem with anything you want to do, but I do not see any scripture that indicates the New Testament church is commanded to do those things. Perhaps the Lord wants you to step our in your community and start a ministry like that? I know you can't do it alone, but maybe you could raise the money like other charities do? I have thought that a great ministry would be to build small homes as temporary places for the homeless, and while they are there, the same ministry would help them get a job. I like your ideas, and people in those positions are a mission field. I just don't see this as a command from God, unless you can show me something regarding the New Testament Church where they were told to do those things or did them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 8:58:59 GMT -5
I been hollering for years that man is false . WEEP and HOWL , WEEP AND HOWL all who followed this man , you followed a false one and now its only getting worse . WEEP and Howl. Between ROME and the JEW kabbala , THE WHOLE WORLD is getting set up for the total deception. Rabbi Haggi, Whatever ever , I don't call no man rabbi, and what a pharce this all is . This seems like the usual Hebrew Roots kind of distractions and it only grows worse if they don't wake up from it. Hagee is so "in love" with Israel he is blind to her human shortcomings...it's a kind of idolatry that is deluding. Though I'm not sure he necessarily needs to be sitting at the feet of Kabbalists in order to be on this path, and I don't know if he calls himself a rabbi...the men on the video might have been saying that tongue-in-cheek. There's another one who does let himself be called a Rabbi though....he talks about the jubilee and shemitah a lot....but doesn't preach what they are types and shadows of biblically.....forgiveness and freedom from the debt of sin! salvation! the gospel! We are not supposed to get enamored with the types and shadows, only learn from them God was saying through them. Same with prayer shawls...everything under the old covenant had meaning...it was all shouting out and pointing ahead so perfectly (to God's glory, not to Israel's glory) to Messiah Jesus and the new and better covenant to come.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 9:08:14 GMT -5
You are speaking of what you observed at individual churches. I am saying that America as a nation has all kinds of welfare programs to help the poor. Most of the people you see that are homeless and standing on street corners are spending their nights in Motels because they are handed money all day long by people passing by. Among the beggars in this country, I haven't seen any that were skin and bones looking like they were starving to death.
Maybe people aren't getting help because they don't ask for it? We had a guy come into our church who couldn't pay his utility bill, and someone in the church paid it for him. That is because he asked. Nobody took credit for it, but it was taken care of. If nobody noticed you, why didn't you get their attention? Why didn't you walk into their church? I wouldn't have turned a homeless man away had they come into my church. Some of these criticisms seem unfair to me. Now I realize there are churches where you would have been turned away or seen as undesirable. I have no doubt of that, but I feel confident that wouldn't have been true everywhere.
i have walked into churches. it was well known i was living in the woods in a tent, if i had one. or squatting in a condemned house. even cops knew, and i was homeless for a couple years as a minor. even when i told the cops they would look at each other, put me in the car and act like they heard nothing. word gets around in a small town. but all i ever got was thats horrible. i never panhandled, not even once. a good bit of people you see panhandling make more than you do Butero. they can afford to sleep in motels. and they dont care, its free money. i did try to get peoples attention... perhaps it was God bringing me to that low point in life where i would call out to Him. I will say that is a possibility.
all the churches in a community need to collaborate and build one storehouse/soupkitchen for the poor. and a thrift shop for clothes. donations feed it all. and not just money. toilet paper, everything. get involved in local radio stations for advertisement. even take old furniture for donations. there needs to be a building for homeless people to stay at if rules are followed. they help out and there can even be paid positions. volunteers. and even people doing community service ordered by court. sell donations cheap but also give out vouchers for food and clothes. each church should have one person on a board. lunch and dinner should be served daily. people who are more trustworthy that need lodging long term can be used to oversee certain tasks such as meals prepared served etc. if possible there needs to be counseling for people who need it. there needs to be prayer before meals. there needs to be bible studies and someone who can serve as a chaplin or preacher.
this kind of place is where you will find those who are downtrodden, problems, broken, etc. the churches job... ekklesia... not a building is not just to go to a building and hope folks show up so they can preach to them. people want to say its not about being fed going to church... what can you do for your church?
does God change? of course not, and yes that was a loaded question. we know God is the same yesterday today and forever. you know how i always speak on Deuteronomy round about chapter 30 concerning free will? well when i labored in the storehouse God showed me things concerning that passage... including...
Deu 28:8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Deu 28:9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways. Deu 28:10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee. Deu 28:11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee. Deu 28:12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
look that word up concerning treasure in verse 12...H214 אוֹצָר 'ôtsâr o-tsaw' From H686; a depository: - armory, cellar, garner, store(-house), treasure (-house) (-y). Total KJV occurrences: 79
Luk 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Pro 19:17 He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.
Ecc 11:1 Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days. Ecc 11:2 Give a portion to seven, and also to eight; for thou knowest not what evil shall be upon the earth. Ecc 11:3 If the clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth: and if the tree fall toward the south, or toward the north, in the place where the tree falleth, there it shall be. Ecc 11:4 He that observeth the wind shall not sow; and he that regardeth the clouds shall not reap. Ecc 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all. Ecc 11:6 In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand: for thou knowest not whether shall prosper, either this or that, or whether they both shall be alike good.
every single day when you walk out your front door... you are entering the mission field. and in the verse from Deuteronomy God is saying if we obey He will command we be blessed in the storehouse... and even later that God will open His storehouse... in Job it talks about storehouses of snow and hail... but in Deuteronomy God promises the rain. the former rain was for seeds to sprout... the latter rain was to "poof" up the grains they grew. this passage implies there is a storehouse of man. that it exists. to obey a storehouse must exist, but they are few. but as i said previously, many say... we just are not set up for that. i have spoken of God speaking thru my mouth scripture, the gospel and then prayer and hundreds got saved. this was all one person at a time. a good bit of this was at the storehouse i worked in... and yet, the head guy there told me the same thing but about preaching the word or having a chapel... we are not set up for that. I am so tired of hearing those words... i can only imagine how God feels... because those words were to Him as well. whether they realize it or not.
there is much the church could be doing today and is not. but who am i? i am just a no body who used to eat out of dumpsters. no one wants to listen to me. everyone else has their degrees and went to seminary. i dont come with a letter. i just speak whats on my heart because of God. and i hear... we arent set up for that.... but God sent me... God used me there. but maybe preachers cant be had there because there is no tithe for them? I prayed God, i want my reward on the other side of eternity... not one dime, and He sent me there. the church is failing in lots of aspects today. and its because people want to go their own way.
I am not trying to speak on whats fair, but whats the right thing to do as the church. the laborers are few.
\o/ Brother this kind of thing is a blessing to hear! Light shining in the darkness! praise the Lord! And it demonstrates how the gospel is life in the Spirit, not a program.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 9:09:43 GMT -5
and i want to clarify one thing... i am not preaching prosperity doctrine. but God showed me when i was in the storehouse it is very important to Him and if we obey and are blessed in the storehouse... God will open up His storehouse to us... NOT for us to put in our pockets... but for us to do His work. I cant tell you how many times i needed potatoes to make a stew for the people to eat. no potatoes. 15 minutes before my shift started... there was potatoes. one time the whole entire kitchen countertops were covered in potatoes. no space to work even. a farmer had more than he could sell.
I have seen it over and over and i tell you... you cant out give God.
\o/
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 9:12:00 GMT -5
i have walked into churches. it was well known i was living in the woods in a tent, if i had one. or squatting in a condemned house. even cops knew, and i was homeless for a couple years as a minor. even when i told the cops they would look at each other, put me in the car and act like they heard nothing. word gets around in a small town. but all i ever got was thats horrible. i never panhandled, not even once. a good bit of people you see panhandling make more than you do Butero. they can afford to sleep in motels. and they dont care, its free money. i did try to get peoples attention... perhaps it was God bringing me to that low point in life where i would call out to Him. I will say that is a possibility.
all the churches in a community need to collaborate and build one storehouse/soupkitchen for the poor. and a thrift shop for clothes. donations feed it all. and not just money. toilet paper, everything. get involved in local radio stations for advertisement. even take old furniture for donations. there needs to be a building for homeless people to stay at if rules are followed. they help out and there can even be paid positions. volunteers. and even people doing community service ordered by court. sell donations cheap but also give out vouchers for food and clothes. each church should have one person on a board. lunch and dinner should be served daily. people who are more trustworthy that need lodging long term can be used to oversee certain tasks such as meals prepared served etc. if possible there needs to be counseling for people who need it. there needs to be prayer before meals. there needs to be bible studies and someone who can serve as a chaplin or preacher.
this kind of place is where you will find those who are downtrodden, problems, broken, etc. the churches job... ekklesia... not a building is not just to go to a building and hope folks show up so they can preach to them. people want to say its not about being fed going to church... what can you do for your church?
does God change? of course not, and yes that was a loaded question. we know God is the same yesterday today and forever. you know how i always speak on Deuteronomy round about chapter 30 concerning free will? well when i labored in the storehouse God showed me things concerning that passage... including...
Deu 28:8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Deu 28:9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways. Deu 28:10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee. Deu 28:11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee. Deu 28:12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
look that word up concerning treasure in verse 12...H214 אוֹצָר 'ôtsâr o-tsaw' From H686; a depository: - armory, cellar, garner, store(-house), treasure (-house) (-y). Total KJV occurrences: 79
Luk 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Pro 19:17 He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.
Ecc 11:1 Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days. Ecc 11:2 Give a portion to seven, and also to eight; for thou knowest not what evil shall be upon the earth. Ecc 11:3 If the clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth: and if the tree fall toward the south, or toward the north, in the place where the tree falleth, there it shall be. Ecc 11:4 He that observeth the wind shall not sow; and he that regardeth the clouds shall not reap. Ecc 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all. Ecc 11:6 In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand: for thou knowest not whether shall prosper, either this or that, or whether they both shall be alike good.
every single day when you walk out your front door... you are entering the mission field. and in the verse from Deuteronomy God is saying if we obey He will command we be blessed in the storehouse... and even later that God will open His storehouse... in Job it talks about storehouses of snow and hail... but in Deuteronomy God promises the rain. the former rain was for seeds to sprout... the latter rain was to "poof" up the grains they grew. this passage implies there is a storehouse of man. that it exists. to obey a storehouse must exist, but they are few. but as i said previously, many say... we just are not set up for that. i have spoken of God speaking thru my mouth scripture, the gospel and then prayer and hundreds got saved. this was all one person at a time. a good bit of this was at the storehouse i worked in... and yet, the head guy there told me the same thing but about preaching the word or having a chapel... we are not set up for that. I am so tired of hearing those words... i can only imagine how God feels... because those words were to Him as well. whether they realize it or not.
there is much the church could be doing today and is not. but who am i? i am just a no body who used to eat out of dumpsters. no one wants to listen to me. everyone else has their degrees and went to seminary. i dont come with a letter. i just speak whats on my heart because of God. and i hear... we arent set up for that.... but God sent me... God used me there. but maybe preachers cant be had there because there is no tithe for them? I prayed God, i want my reward on the other side of eternity... not one dime, and He sent me there. the church is failing in lots of aspects today. and its because people want to go their own way.
I am not trying to speak on whats fair, but whats the right thing to do as the church. the laborers are few.
Rejoice , CLETUS , REJIOCE that we were not raised in theologies of mens seminaries . REJOICE that we are not seen as wise by many . Rejoice and leap for joy when most think we are dumb and unlearned. For the wisdom of GOD is foolishness to those who are mighty and wise in their own sight . They have built up their own pedastools and love the praise and recognition of men , to be seen and love titles like DR , DR , RABBI , REJOICE that we are not accepted by men . REJOICE that we are cast out . REJIOCE that we seem as fools to the wise . For they are wise IN THEIR OWN SIGHT . And praise the LORD , for though we may seem as ignorant , for though we know we know not all, IN CHRIST we KNOW THE ONE WHO DOES KNOW ALL. AND HIS Wisdom given us in CHRIST is a honey to the soul , as a flavor that no taste can compare too. REJOICE CLETUS . OH I SAY REJOICE .
\o/
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on Feb 11, 2019 9:13:16 GMT -5
The NT church had one congregation per town. It wasn’t like today where we have dozens of denominations putting a church building on every street corner. You would have to get all the denominations to agree on the methods and policies.
And technically speaking, the NT required that anyone with living relatives would have to stay with them. These days people are so impossible with each other that bridges are irreparably burned.
|
|
|
Post by John on Feb 11, 2019 9:24:01 GMT -5
The NT church had one congregation per town. It wasn’t like today where we have dozens of denominations putting a church building on every street corner. You would have to get all the denominations to agree on the methods and policies. And technically speaking, the NT required that anyone with living relatives would have to stay with them. These days people are so impossible with each other that bridges are irreparably burned. The distribution was to be for the benefit of fellow Christians, not sinners. The families were the first place they were to go for assistance. That is the New Testament pattern. I think Cletus has good ministry ideas, worthy of supporting, but the churches are not commanded to do all of that.
|
|
Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
|
Post by Cletus on Feb 11, 2019 11:15:46 GMT -5
I think you have good ideas for potential ministries Cletus, but there is no New Testament scripture I know of that indicates the church must set up a storehouse like that, and there is no indication that the New Testament church ever did anything close to that. Even when it came to helping out widows, they were very frugal about who qualified. When I read about storehouses in the Old Testament, I believe it is speaking of how God will bless individuals where they will have plenty in their personal storehouses. There is nothing to indicate that Israel had huge storehouses set up for the poor and homeless. I don't see that anywhere in the Bible.
Going back to your ideas, I think they are good ones. They certainly are a way of doing alms. In our town, we actually have a ministry they call a Storehouse for Jesus. I have a cousin that does volunteer work there. I have no problem with anything you want to do, but I do not see any scripture that indicates the New Testament church is commanded to do those things. Perhaps the Lord wants you to step our in your community and start a ministry like that? I know you can't do it alone, but maybe you could raise the money like other charities do? I have thought that a great ministry would be to build small homes as temporary places for the homeless, and while they are there, the same ministry would help them get a job. I like your ideas, and people in those positions are a mission field. I just don't see this as a command from God, unless you can show me something regarding the New Testament Church where they were told to do those things or did them.
there already is a ministry like that close to me. i worked there for years. I have tried to go back several times, but that door isnt open. This ministry, my service there and the things God has told me/shown me during that time is why today i will tithe in a place like this before i tithe in a church. and also why i tell others to consider doing the same. i been to a lot of churches, and if you combined all of them together with how much the hand of God moves there to where i worked its only a fraction.
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
this passage shows the sheep on the right were unaware of their actions to others as being to God.
Luk 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
in John chapter 21 where Jesus said to feed His sheep three times... look up the word feed in every instance. its not the same greek word all three times.
also when Jesus fed the multitudes.... Mat 15:32 Then Jesus called his disciples unto him, and said, I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.
is there a command in the new testament? no. are there clues for us to pick up on as to what Gods heart is concerning this... yes. and much of the bible you must think about as its implied. People do not grow their own crops now thus they do not have their own storehouses. we, the church, are supposed to be one. a light to the world. if we dont love our neighbor will they see the love of God in us? there maybe a storehouse in your community and in mine... but they are not common all over.
there does need to be guidelines tho on who gets the resources. and each case is not the same as each persons life is different.
|
|
|
Post by John on Feb 11, 2019 11:44:33 GMT -5
Commandment or not or implied or not, I do think that we should be helping the poor, and I do think a ministry to the homeless is a good thing. You just don't want them to become dependent. That is why I would love to see a ministry to build small houses with just the basics a person would need to house the homeless. That way, you could give them an address, which is pretty much needed to get a job. You could get them some decent clothes, and help them find work. Then they could remain at that home for a certain amount of time while they save enough money to get their own apartment, and help people really get out of poverty. I don't like the current system which keeps people permanently homeless and only throws food and supplies at them, but never gives them assistance to get on their feet.
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Feb 11, 2019 12:36:10 GMT -5
Commandment or not or implied or not, I do think that we should be helping the poor, and I do think a ministry to the homeless is a good thing. You just don't want them to become dependent. That is why I would love to see a ministry to build small houses with just the basics a person would need to house the homeless. That way, you could give them an address, which is pretty much needed to get a job. You could get them some decent clothes, and help them find work. Then they could remain at that home for a certain amount of time while they save enough money to get their own apartment, and help people really get out of poverty. I don't like the current system which keeps people permanently homeless and only throws food and supplies at them, but never gives them assistance to get on their feet.
The current system is a total sham . The system has created slaves to that system . It is a system that also silences and shuns the true meat from being given . And in these days we have more programs at work within even churches that focus on feeding the poor , yet they preach not the gospel of salvation . While filling bellies , they fill not the poor with the bread from heaven. While feeding bellies , they feed not the people with the pure bread of life . As with the system so with the people . And little do they know that the very system which for now feeds the poor , will be the same system which in time will do all to eradicate the poor and all they deem unworthy of their all inclusive god . China and india and others are but a test run for a system which is building that will turn on all who conform not to the ideals of men gone wrong . For while in pretense even American politics speak out against what china does , They doing and building the same system . For when a man speaks against a system , yet builds that system tis easy to deceive . Being communist china does as she does . But tis easier even to deceive through democracy , just as hitler did and others have . Give the people the idea of freedom , the idea they are in control and yet enslave them into a system which the few have all power over and do control . For what is up they preach as down , what is black they sell as white , what is good they sell as evil and what is evil they call good . Its all backwards now . They used the grey mentality , the blend , the mix to accomplish this . They used the ying with the yang on the churches even and it worked . And now the white ying with the small black dot has become the black ying as evil has filled fuller and fuller . We don't need the mix , we need only pure truth . We don't need no version of Christ as one among many others . WE NEED the true version of Christ that stands high above all . And is the name above all names . For that is the true Christ . We need to feed and take care of the poor , but first and foremost preaching the gospel . You leap up butero and praise the Lord .
|
|
Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
|
Post by Cletus on Feb 11, 2019 13:06:07 GMT -5
Commandment or not or implied or not, I do think that we should be helping the poor, and I do think a ministry to the homeless is a good thing. You just don't want them to become dependent. That is why I would love to see a ministry to build small houses with just the basics a person would need to house the homeless. That way, you could give them an address, which is pretty much needed to get a job. You could get them some decent clothes, and help them find work. Then they could remain at that home for a certain amount of time while they save enough money to get their own apartment, and help people really get out of poverty. I don't like the current system which keeps people permanently homeless and only throws food and supplies at them, but never gives them assistance to get on their feet.
to this i agree. that is why those who receive assistance MUST do something to help the ministry. sort clothes/food/furniture/donations. prepare meals. if they are disabled i can understand, but someone that is able bodied should pitch in. i think the small houses is a good idea for families. but for single men and women i see no reason to not just have one big room for men and one for women and they sleep in there. while they are not looking for a job, they should be helping out. also things like hygiene bags, bed rolls need to be made. lots of things to be done. and its also a good idea to do right before winter a coat drive. and also for christmas a toy drive. lots of childrens parents can not give them much. some churches already do this and i have seen mothers in tears and so thankful they could have a way to give their children a good christmas. i have seen radio ads for turkey and hams for the holidays and we filled up our freezers and emptied them many times each year. so many donations come in when people know there is something going on.
but the end goal should be getting them on their feet. this is helping them. and we should not be enabling them to be lazy.
I have also labored in a ministry where we built small homes. i know of a couple who sold their house and began doing this using old materials and recycled stuff to build houses. they live in a camper trailer and live where ever they are building. the houses are sold very cheap or given to poor people if they have no way of getting somewhere to live. they have built quite a few homes. God dint command them to do this... they made the choice to do it. as the church we should step up... arise.
i just gave away a lot of baby stuff to a couple just starting out. they didnt have the money for the stuff. he wanted to give me some money but i told him no just put that money on the baby. the stuff was just sitting in my garage. taking up space. probably never going to do anything more than collect dust. there is something we can do for others some how some way we can make a difference in peoples lives. and i have not been in that ministry for years... and still when i see people i go to shake their hand i helped previously... and they hug me. poor folks dont forget when you do Gods work that impacts their life. its been years and they remember me and hug me. a handshake wont do.
|
|