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Post by John on May 22, 2019 20:35:46 GMT -5
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. Galatians 4:29-31
This is an interesting scripture, because I have witnessed this first hand over the years. We often talk about having a church with sheep and goats and wheat and tares, but we also have another struggle going on. We have a struggle between the children of the bondwoman and the children of the free.
How do we recognize which one is which? The children of the bondwoman are living according to the flesh. They live like those out in the world, not because they intend to do anything wrong, but because they are in bondage to the flesh. They do not have the Spirit, so they are going along doing religious activities, but they are not any different from your typical sinner.
Then you have the children of the promise. They have had a real conversion, and they are not the same person they were before coming to Christ. There is a noticeable change. They don't go around blowing all the rent money gambling or on booze. They don't cheat on their wives or cheat other people out of their money. They exhibit the fruit of the Spirit, because they are led of the Spirit. In a great house, both of these groups will often worship together, but they don't get along too well.
The children of the flesh do not like the children of the promise. They see them as prideful, simply because they don't live riotously as the children of the flesh do. They believe they are being judged and looked down on, when often times, that is not the case. The children of the promise are simply following the Lord. This leads to persecution.
In this passage, a refence is being made to Isaac and Ishmael. Isaac was the child of promise, whereas Ishmael was the child of the bondwoman. I don't know how familiar you are with the story, but when Isaac was a small child and was weaned, we see that Ismael began to mock. We see this in Genesis 21:7-10
And she said,, Who would have said unto Abraham, that Sarah should have given children suck? for I have born him a son in his old age. And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned. And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
Why was Ishmael mocking? The Bible doesn't say, but I would imagine there was jealousy and resentment. Ishmael was the first born to Abraham, but Isaac was the child of promise and favored above him. They were having a feast to celebrate an important time in the child's life, the day he was weaned, and Ishmael mocked what was taking place.
This is not an easy situation to have to deal with, but it is a reality, there are children of the bondwoman in our churches. They despise the children of promise, and they will persecute them. Don't think it a strange thing when this occurs. Just be thankful that you are not of the bondwoman, but of the free. In reality, those walking after the flesh, and living in bondage are to be pitied. They have no idea what it is like to be set free to serve God, and no longer have to serve sin. They also will not inherit with the children of promise. Remember that in Galatians, it says that those who live after the flesh shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Just like the Egyptian and her son were cast out, so will they be cast out.
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Post by John on Aug 3, 2019 17:21:02 GMT -5
Why do the children of the bondwoman persecute the children of the free? Consider the difference. Imagine being a child of the bondwoman, a slave to sin. You went to the altar a drunk, and you rose up a drunk. You went to the altar an adulterer. You got up an adulterer. You went to the altar a liar or a thief, and you got up the same way. There is no change, and you believe that is all life has to offer you. You are a slave to sin as long as you are alive. The only thing that you believe God has or can set you free from is the penalty for sin.
Then there are the children of the free woman. They go down a slave to sin, and they get up set free. They went down a drunk and woke up free from the bondage that was ruining his life. They went to the altar a womanizer and got up a faithful spouse. They went down a liar or a cheat, and woke up honest. The child of the bondwoman hears this testimony and denies that is possible. They say that person is deceiving themselves, because we are all sinners. We can't possibly be free from sin. If we say we can, even if we give God the glory, it shows we are prideful. To them, a Christian is no better than the worst sinner, except they believe Jesus is who He says He is. Until they can take away that freedom to live above sin from the child of promise, they persecute them.
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world loveth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doeth not yet appear, what we shall be: but we know, that when he shall appear, we shall be like him: for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him, purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Whosoever committeth sin, transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins, and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him, sinneth not: whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness, is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin, is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning: for this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God, doth not commit sin: for his seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness, is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. I John 3:1-10
These are the children of promise. They are the true children of God, born of God. They cannot continue to live in a lifestyle of sin because they are born of God. This makes no sense to those children of the bondwoman, because they haven't experienced it, and feel like living free from the bondages of sin must be impossible. Because they see it as impossible, therefore they persecute those who say it is possible and have experienced it. They lower the bar to say all we can do is live in constant sin and hope to avoid hell. It doesn't have to be that way. Once a person has really experienced true salvation through faith in Jesus, they are a new creature. Old things are passed away. All things are become new.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 3, 2019 19:16:01 GMT -5
Even a young man with down syndrome , by grace , saw something that the highly intellectual cannot see . This young man made a very simple statement . When folks were discussing baptism in the churches . The young man simply said many go down a dry sinner and still come up a wet sinner . THE DUDE had DOWN SYNDROME , yet by grace KNEW MORE THAN MOST PASOTORS . FOLKS if the LIFE AINT CHANGED , THEN THEIR HAS BEEN NO BORN AGAIN CONVERSION .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 3, 2019 19:18:04 GMT -5
Talk about the LORD making the wisdom of the world foolishness , out of the mouth of a simple babe with down syndrome can far more truth than even most all intellectual pastors even KNOW .
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777
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Post by 777 on Aug 8, 2019 22:02:16 GMT -5
What kind of sense does that make, to go down a sinner and come up a sinner? When you think about it, what are you being saved from? I suppose you are being saved from hell, but what about being saved from your sins? Not just the penalty of sin, but actually being saved from your sins? Doesn't the Lord have the power to deliver us from bondage? What is the new birth for if we remain sinners? Butero, you make a lot of good points in this thread.
What is that about someone with down syndrome? Who is that?
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Post by frienduff on Aug 9, 2019 6:17:58 GMT -5
What kind of sense does that make, to go down a sinner and come up a sinner? When you think about it, what are you being saved from? I suppose you are being saved from hell, but what about being saved from your sins? Not just the penalty of sin, but actually being saved from your sins? Doesn't the Lord have the power to deliver us from bondage? What is the new birth for if we remain sinners? Butero, you make a lot of good points in this thread.
What is that about someone with down syndrome? Who is that? That young man with down syndrome knew that the conversion was fake not real . HE knew that if a life was not changed to reflect that OF CHRIST that the baptism meant nothing and they were not born again . This dude with Down syndrome knew more than most pastors man . But then THE LORD is with those who are HIS , whether they have down syndrome or not . This man was making a statement that many get baptized by water , think they are saved , YET are not following Christ at all . Which means what , THEY ARE NOT BORN AGAIN nor are they HIS . Because I remind us , IF ONE IS TRULY BORN OF HIM , THEY WOULD LOVE HIM THE love that comes from GOD loves all THINGS HE has SAID . Hearers and DOERS of the WORD by the SPIRIT of CHRIST within them . HANDS UP TRIPLE SEVENS . HANDS UP . IF a man walks in darkness , IT DONT MATTER WHAT HIS MOUTH SAYS , HE can say I LOVE JESUS , I LOVE GOD but JOHN IS RIGHT . THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM , HE LIES . Because those born of HIM , FOLLOW HIM . And if one errs , sins , their is the example of , CONFESS AND FLEE IT . Notice JOHN says I write these things so ye sin not , NOT SO THAT YE FEEL COMFY IN SIN . And if we do sin we do have an advocate , BUT THAT ADVOCATE would unction us REPENT , REPENT of the evil , REPENT . JUST as HE DID FROM HEAVEN TOO , to the churches . AKA , REPENT OR ELSE .
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777
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Post by 777 on Aug 11, 2019 21:40:52 GMT -5
What kind of sense does that make, to go down a sinner and come up a sinner? When you think about it, what are you being saved from? I suppose you are being saved from hell, but what about being saved from your sins? Not just the penalty of sin, but actually being saved from your sins? Doesn't the Lord have the power to deliver us from bondage? What is the new birth for if we remain sinners? Butero, you make a lot of good points in this thread.
What is that about someone with down syndrome? Who is that? That young man with down syndrome knew that the conversion was fake not real . HE knew that if a life was not changed to reflect that OF CHRIST that the baptism meant nothing and they were not born again . This dude with Down syndrome knew more than most pastors man . But then THE LORD is with those who are HIS , whether they have down syndrome or not . This man was making a statement that many get baptized by water , think they are saved , YET are not following Christ at all . Which means what , THEY ARE NOT BORN AGAIN nor are they HIS . Because I remind us , IF ONE IS TRULY BORN OF HIM , THEY WOULD LOVE HIM THE love that comes from GOD loves all THINGS HE has SAID . Hearers and DOERS of the WORD by the SPIRIT of CHRIST within them . HANDS UP TRIPLE SEVENS . HANDS UP . IF a man walks in darkness , IT DONT MATTER WHAT HIS MOUTH SAYS , HE can say I LOVE JESUS , I LOVE GOD but JOHN IS RIGHT . THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM , HE LIES . Because those born of HIM , FOLLOW HIM . And if one errs , sins , their is the example of , CONFESS AND FLEE IT . Notice JOHN says I write these things so ye sin not , NOT SO THAT YE FEEL COMFY IN SIN . And if we do sin we do have an advocate , BUT THAT ADVOCATE would unction us REPENT , REPENT of the evil , REPENT . JUST as HE DID FROM HEAVEN TOO , to the churches . AKA , REPENT OR ELSE .
So was the guy with down syndrome someone you know personally or someone you saw on television?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 6:46:04 GMT -5
There will always be tares among the wheat until the end, and even some of the tares I believe can potentially be brought to repentance meanwhile. We can expect to not be well received by them, but also we will not always be be well received by those who are saved but may be less mature in the Lord....the flesh that is still alive in some will tend to persecute the spirit of Christ in others, even though they know the Lord. We should expect this and be prepared to suffer in a Christlike way for His sake and theirs....one of the Roman soldiers who was crucifying Jesus came to faith when he saw how He was suffering, with love for His enemies and without malice against His persecutors, had his eyes opened to see that Jesus was indeed the Son of God.....oh for more grace to be like that Lord! We can see from some of the letters that Paul himself was apparently not always well received or even accorded basic respect and courtesy in the churches at times.
There will be some fruits of a changed life from the beginning, at least, but I don't believe necessarily perfection will be seen in all from the start. There are many factors at play, gifts and callings, who sinned more loves more, etc, and some are given a greater or lesser measure of grace and faith (parable of the talents).....and as well, the bible says that we take the promised land little by little, and this is what it means to work out our salvation.....this is hard to understand but it is God's wisdom:
Exo 23:29-30 I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee. By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.
Anyone who is sincere in their faith and sincerely loves and and learns to fear the Lord will at the very least "with the mind serve Christ", even though it will take a good fight of faith and working out of their salvation to get the rest of their "self" in line with the Truth. The marvellous and very good news is that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us in the meantime, thanks be to God...His indescribable gift. If we were to judge with our eyes, instead of with righteous judgment, then we would judge the church at Corinth to have not been saved, since going by Paul's letters they were living and behaving in ways that we might consider shocking. Most of us here at least have the benefit of being saved out of a fairly "Christian" society, but Paul among the formerly pagan Gentiles was ploughing and labouring in some pretty rough and hard ground. Sanctification takes a good deal of time for most people, even a life long pursuit, and it's just a reality of life too that some have harder or easier battles to fight in that pursuit as well.
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Post by John on Aug 12, 2019 6:51:02 GMT -5
There will always be tares among the wheat until the end, and even some of the tares I believe can potentially be brought to repentance meanwhile. We can expect to not be well received by them, but also we will not always be be well received by those who are saved but may be less mature in the Lord....the flesh that is still alive in some will tend to persecute the spirit of Christ in others, even though they know the Lord. We should expect this and be prepared to suffer in a Christlike way for His sake and theirs....one of the Roman soldiers who was crucifying Jesus came to faith when he saw how He was suffering, with love for His enemies and without malice against His persecutors, had his eyes opened to see that Jesus was indeed the Son of God.....oh for more grace to be like that Lord! We can see from some of the letters that Paul himself was apparently not always well received or even accorded basic respect and courtesy in the churches at times. There will be some fruits of a changed life from the beginning, at least, but I don't believe necessarily perfection will be seen in all from the start. There are many factors at play, gifts and callings, who sinned more loves more, etc, and some are given a greater or lesser measure of grace and faith (parable of the talents).....and as well, the bible says that we take the promised land little by little, and this is what it means to work out our salvation.....this is hard to understand but it is God's wisdom: Exo 23:29-30 I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee. By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.
Anyone who is sincere in their faith and sincerely loves and and learns to fear the Lord will at the very least "with the mind serve Christ", even though it will take a good fight of faith and working out of their salvation to get the rest of their "self" in line with the Truth. The marvellous and very good news is that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us in the meantime, thanks be to God...His indescribable gift. If we were to judge with our eyes, instead of with righteous judgment, then we would judge the church at Corinth to have not been saved, since going by Paul's letters they were living and behaving in ways that we might consider shocking. Most of us here at least have the benefit of being saved out of a fairly "Christian" society, but Paul among the formerly pagan Gentiles was ploughing and labouring in some pretty rough and hard ground. Sanctification takes a good deal of time for most people, even a life long pursuit, and it's just a reality of life too that some have harder or easier battles to fight in that pursuit as well. Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart. I believe that he knows when we are sincerely trying to be obedient children, and when we are just rebellious and presumptuous sinners, and you are right, he will give more grace when needed to a sincere Christian.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 9:49:30 GMT -5
I believe the whole story of the Israelites leaving Egypt, crossing the Red Sea, trekking through the wilderness, crossing the Jordan, then battling to conquer the Promised Land....is a picture/ensample of the Christian journey. Two bodies of water to get across...are there two baptisms to undergo?
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Post by frienduff on Aug 12, 2019 9:53:13 GMT -5
That young man with down syndrome knew that the conversion was fake not real . HE knew that if a life was not changed to reflect that OF CHRIST that the baptism meant nothing and they were not born again . This dude with Down syndrome knew more than most pastors man . But then THE LORD is with those who are HIS , whether they have down syndrome or not . This man was making a statement that many get baptized by water , think they are saved , YET are not following Christ at all . Which means what , THEY ARE NOT BORN AGAIN nor are they HIS . Because I remind us , IF ONE IS TRULY BORN OF HIM , THEY WOULD LOVE HIM THE love that comes from GOD loves all THINGS HE has SAID . Hearers and DOERS of the WORD by the SPIRIT of CHRIST within them . HANDS UP TRIPLE SEVENS . HANDS UP . IF a man walks in darkness , IT DONT MATTER WHAT HIS MOUTH SAYS , HE can say I LOVE JESUS , I LOVE GOD but JOHN IS RIGHT . THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM , HE LIES . Because those born of HIM , FOLLOW HIM . And if one errs , sins , their is the example of , CONFESS AND FLEE IT . Notice JOHN says I write these things so ye sin not , NOT SO THAT YE FEEL COMFY IN SIN . And if we do sin we do have an advocate , BUT THAT ADVOCATE would unction us REPENT , REPENT of the evil , REPENT . JUST as HE DID FROM HEAVEN TOO , to the churches . AKA , REPENT OR ELSE .
So was the guy with down syndrome someone you know personally or someone you saw on television? Someone me and my brother once knew .
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Post by solid on Aug 12, 2019 13:59:51 GMT -5
So was the guy with down syndrome someone you know personally or someone you saw on television? Someone me and my brother once knew . I wonder how many that walk in the flesh really believe they will get to heaven? You would think something on the inside would cause them to know better. The person with downs syndrome wasn't lying to himself.
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Post by John on Aug 12, 2019 14:52:17 GMT -5
Someone me and my brother once knew . I wonder how many that walk in the flesh really believe they will get to heaven? You would think something on the inside would cause them to know better. The person with downs syndrome wasn't lying to himself. I think they talk themselves into believing a lie. Once that occurs, bringing them back to reality is nearly impossible.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 12, 2019 17:14:07 GMT -5
Someone me and my brother once knew . I wonder how many that walk in the flesh really believe they will get to heaven? You would think something on the inside would cause them to know better. The person with downs syndrome wasn't lying to himself. That's right , the person with down syndrome actually knew the LORD . Hands up , solid , hands up and praise the LORD .
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 13, 2019 15:19:07 GMT -5
are there two baptisms to undergo? “Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said,
‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’” - Acts 11:16
“For with the heart one believes unto righteousness,
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” Romans 10:10
“While Peter was still speaking these words,
the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.” - Acts 10:44
“And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and
began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” - Acts 2:4
“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.
And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” - John 14:21
“...when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth;
for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak;
and He will tell you things to come.” - John 16:13
“When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying,
“Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”” - Acts 11:18
“...Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father...” - John 6:65
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