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Post by John on Jul 3, 2018 1:31:40 GMT -5
Despise not prophesying.
That verse seems pretty straight forward. "Despise not prophesying." How many violate this all the time? The question is, why? How come people seem to get so offended and angry towards prophets? Clearly, when a word is given that is speaking against an individual, we can understand why they would not want to hear it. Nobody wants to hear negative things said about them, but we are not only seeing prophets attacked for negative things, but positive as well. That is because it messes with certain doctrines that are being taught that the gifts of the Spirit are no longer in operation, and strangely enough, some seem to prefer it that way. They would rather believe that now that God showed his power in the early church, he has left us on our own today. We have his written Word and that is all we need. That does not agree with New Testament scripture.
Why the hostility towards prophets? Could it be out of fear? Are we afraid of what the Lord might have to say to us, and we would rather not hear it? Nothing is new under the sun. The people feared the words of God's prophets in Old Testament times. Not hearing doesn't prevent things from coming to pass. It just leaves us in the dark. The destructions comes suddenly. Personally, I would rather hear the word of the Lord, whether good or bad. If it is negative, it gives us a chance to do something about it, like with the people of Nineveh. You never know if we repent, whether or not the Lord might withhold judgment. Whether we want to hear it or not, remember that a prophet is just a messenger. It is not their words, but God's. They are simply doing their job by telling us what "thus saith the Lord."
There were many admonitions in that passage in 1 Thessalonians, but this is a simple one to follow. "Despise not prophesying." I would take this a step further and say be thankful for it. Welcome it, but test it, and make sure it is Biblical.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 3, 2018 8:05:54 GMT -5
John What you have said is exactly right... People know they are going to be rebuked, because they know they are not walking the way they should.
I still remember when I used to attend a church where they prophesied, and when it came to prophesying time you could see people going out of the church, especially younger people.
"My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor detest His correction;" - Proverbs 3:11
"For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does
not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed." - John 3:20
Yes, some people get very worried... Not that they should have a reason, the Lord will not put them to shame... But some are worried anyway.
"And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down
on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you." - 1 Corinthians 14:25
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Post by frienduff on Jul 3, 2018 8:10:05 GMT -5
YES . DESPISE NOT PROPHESYING and TEST all that do speak .
We should always test what is said . The reason true prophecies are despised IS the flesh despises correction .
BUT if we walk after the SPIRIT we would welcome all that is of the SPIRIT .
WHEN DAVID had erred , Nathan a prophet was sent to warn . DAVID REPENTED
When the land grew evil , prophets were sent to warn of repentance .
Any time a great dearth was nigh to come . Prophets were sent .
IN the church prophesying was used to EDIFY the Church and all was tested .
To simply despise prophesying , whether it be cause the hearer don't like the warning or correction
OR whether one simply believes some gifts or offices no longer exist , THIS IS EVIL and must be corrected fast .
WHY , now I ask this question not because I do not now the answer , but to have us really pray and ponder .
WHY are we going to just take mens word for things . WHY sit under men who teach a pattern contrary to the early church.
WHEN I hear men say in any event, that some things were just for the early church , I CRINGE HUGE .
IF we take away FROM part of the foundation that the true apostels and CHRIST FIRST TAUGHT , that is so scary .
WHY do we let our lil minds try and convince us that our little thoughts are right . WE MUST realize , WHAT the early church has
the CHURCH will have , TILL JESUS RETURN . THAT every gift they had among varying memembers, WE HAVE among varying memembers.
THAT every doctrine they taught , WE should teach and keep that pattern IDENTICAL to the ORIGINAL PATTERN.
WHY be highminded in any way and try and omit things or add things . To me that is a dangerous mind and walk .
WE must , WE must teach and believe what JESUS taught and what we clearly seen in the true apostels .
THE GIFTS are FOR THE BODY . FOR IT , TO BUILD IT UP . I am truly worried for so many people . WHY
do we let our minds try and alter WHAT THE FOUNDATION taught . I don't think most realize that the apostels were actually PART OF the ORIGINAL FOUNDATION
ON WHICH CHRIST the CORNER STONE was laid . THE ORDER IS JESUS the CORNER STONE FROM WHICH ALL ELSE IS built upon . THE APOSTELS were part OF that original
foundation , and the rest of us are the lil stones laid ON that foundation .
I say that , not because I exalt man, but because ITS TRUE . AND WE MUST keep that foundation without the spot of mens doctrines which are contrary .
I am truly , truly sorry if the bible is not enough for so many . I think for the most part , HERE, we got people that DO want that .
I just believe their are some things that just need REMINDER and correction . WE must keep the original foundation AS the FOUNDATION OF OUR HEART and SOUL and MIND .
Anything added cannot take from that foundation or make it void in any way . THIS IS HIGHLY DANGEROUS and it is deception .
Folks I cant imagine ANYONE wanting to hear these words ., I NEVER KNEW YOU.
BUT WE WILL HEAR THEM if we WILLFULLY OMIT what JESUS FIRST TAUGHT and then what was written for our admonition .
I am saying this as a plea. I know in my heart , IF WE JUST , IF WE WOULD JUST get refreshed in that bible again . IF we would earnestly cry out
for truth , WE WILL RECIEVE IT . ONLY GOD can put the LOVE of THE TRUTH on our heart , BUT REMEMBER lusts can and will choke it out .
WHAT JOY , PEACE , we would have if we just returned to the ORIGINAL FOUNDATION and those teachings .
THEIR would be no strife . IF we as small children simply ask GOD to reveal where we might have learned something wrong and replace it
with JUST HIS TRUTH . We cannot see ourselves as anything . But I assure us all, IF we change or omit the original then pride is already in us .
LET us all start afresh and start learning afresh IN the BIBLE again . Divisoins and strifes would be cleared up in time . quite quickly in fact .
IT scares me like no other when I see people willfully and without no conviction say and teach things contrary to the original foundation .
THE SPIRIT convicts . AND that is why it worries me so much. Because if we have come to the place where we can say without conviction that things
the early church did or had are either no longer necessary or do not exist , THAT IS TERRIFYING . Cause even when I see it , the SPIRIT convicts me
for THEIR SAKE TO WARN THEM OTHERWISE . MY advice is that we DO start over . I wonder if their is a way we can encourage daily reads of WHOLE LETTERS .
THIS IS BEST . TO read the letters as Letters . REALLY SEE what paul , james ,jude and others were telling the church . TO GET REFRESHED IN THAT .
Even in peter and pauls writings and johns , THEY say things like we say this not because you know not the truth, BUT TO STIRUP , TO REMIND
to REMIND . We got so many men and women I cannot count , that teach lies , mixes, IF WE are not daily FEEDING on that bible , WE GOING TO WAX DULL .
WE in the days and age of great deception. THE TRUTH is , I have never seen it like this . AND ITS ONLY GETTING and GOING to get worse .
SO we must ENSURE its the TRUE JESUS WE FOLLOW and not contrary men . JESUS HIMSELF .
SO TWO THINGS . READ the GOSPLES , and READ the apostels letters WHO WE SHOULD KNOW DID KNOW HIM AND DID FOLLOW HIM AND DID HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT .
WE MUST . WE SIMPLY MUST .
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 3, 2018 8:10:13 GMT -5
Doctrinal disagreements are a huge obstacle for many things God wants to do in people's lives. It is heartbreaking to watch a hurting person be told that Jesus cannot "magically" solve his problems. As the old song says, what needless pain we bear. Yes, we must be careful, but God forbid we take it too far and find ourselves rebuking real miracles. It is very dangerous to attack the hand of God. I believe this is one of the reasons for the great falling away at the end of time. Too many shepherds and teachers are calling God a liar, letting the sheep stay trapped in painful bondage, and turning their weapons against prophetic intervention.
But, having said all that, I've observed a few others reasons for rejection of prophecy...
1) We have a low opinion of the person who brought the message. A few verses up in that same chapter, Paul tells us to "esteem very highly" the brethren who labor among us. It takes humility to accept a prophetic word from someone we think is beneath us. Let us never think we are so spiritually advanced that no one else is qualified to minister to us.
2) The prophecy opposes what we thought God was doing in a situation. I've seen many, many people pray in direct opposition to God's will. That's actually a big source of unnecessary spiritual warfare. When two strong-willed people collide, both convinced they know God's plan, praying and teaching against each other to control the outcome of a situation, someone is going to get burned.
3) When God reveals His plan, we lose the right to pray for whatever we want. Now it's time to fall in line and pray in agreement.
4) The prophecy might challenge us to change our lifestyle, rethink our doctrine, or repent of something we didn't know was sin.
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Post by frienduff on Jul 3, 2018 8:24:56 GMT -5
My advice is for all who know what we just said is true , is to start reminding the others as well.
IF our heart truly loves them , then we would truly have concern for all . When I plea and beg as well as when I rebuke
its for the sake of the others . I mean by grace We are saved , so when I see error its for the sake of the other .
And false doctrines and dissimulations can catch many off guard . IF SO it must be corrected asap fast .
IF EVEN PETER , and BARNABAS , apostels mind you , WERE caught up in a dissimulation , DO NOT be highminded that this cannot happen to anyone . IT CAN.
IF even for a moment we start to sit under wrong concepts , WE CAN and WILL GET caught up in them . WE MUST preach , teach and speak THE ORIGINAL SOUND DOCTRINE
and IF we have the SPIRIT and speak by it , THE SPIRIT WOULD NEVER CONTRADICT the ORIGINAL PATTERN. IT WILL MAGNIFY and bring all things
to remembrance that are TRUTH . THAT JESUS taught . that the apostels taught . WE have the good examples of what we should do
we have bad examples of what we ought not do, IN THE BIBLE . WE MUST therefore , LEARN IT . FEED ON IT .
My advice is if any is reading other materials , DROP THEM and return ONLY TO THE BIBLE . GET IT ENGRAINED.
I cannot point to any man , BUT I SURE CAN POINT TO JESUS and HIS SOUND DOCTRINE as TRUTH . THE THING IS we have absolute truth RIGHT IN THE BIBLE .
TRUTH that IS THE TRUTH and not TAINTED at all. BUT THIS I cannot say about any other . That point is , GET BACK IN THE BIBLE .
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Post by frienduff on Jul 3, 2018 8:30:52 GMT -5
By what I just said , I HOPE we truly understand , WHY the enemy went about to get many to DOUBT THE BIBLE .
OF COURSE HE WILL , FOR the enemy does know if he can get us to doubt the original pattern, FOLKS HE HAS US , HE HAS US , HE HAS US .
HE KNOWS THIS . DO NOT HEED any who try and tell you that NO BIBLE IS ACCURATE . THEY ARE LYING , whether they know it or not .
IF we do not have the FOUNDATION TO STAND ON , we sink . THUS we must learn and ensure IT IS JESUS WE ARE FOLLOWING .
AND IF WE READ and learn that bible . THE TRUE JESUS , WHAT HE SAID , WHAT THE APOSTELS TAUGHT , ITS IN THERE .
MANY men and women have not crept in , THEY NOW FLOODED IN and bring heresays and doctrines to catch many off guard and into the snare .
WE must be hearers and doers of HIS GRACE the word .
And we better HEED HIS SPIRIT , or we going to fall. FACTS are facts and we are in very dangerous and highly deceptive times . I AINT SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS .
LEARN JESUS , and even if we think we know HIM, GET REFRESHED IN HIS SAYINGS , HIS WORDS , the letters of the apostels and that bible .
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 3, 2018 10:36:19 GMT -5
Any spiritual gift that God gives to any Christian is not for the benefit of the receiver of it only but is a gift from God to His people, to whomever He is pleased for the person He has gifted to serve. It is a gift for service---just as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and it is Him who enables the gifts in all---and is for the glory of God, not of the person He is working through.
If you despise a genuine spiritual gift that God has given to you through another Christian, you're basically shoving God's gift to you back in His face. The gift might not always be pleasant (such as a prophet's rebuke to Christians who are erring in some way, warning them of God's judgment and calling them to repentance), but it is always potentially beneficial, depending on whether a person chooses to receive it or not.
If Christians thought of the spiritual gifts in this way, instead of in an earthly way---as something to boast about or something that makes one Christian superior to others---and looked past the minister to the One working through him or her, they would appreciate the gifts in the way that God intended for us to, instead of being jealous or resentful.
Paul told the brothers in Corinth to earnestly desire the gift of prophecy, not so that they could attain to some higher level of spirituality above other brothers without gifts or with different gifts, and have something to boast about, but because the prophetic gift is practical for the building up of believers and of the church with words from the Lord.
We should also bear in mind that the fact that God chooses to give a person a spiritual gift or gifts does not mean that that individual earned it by his or her own righteousness or received the gift because he or she is one of God's 'favorite' children. It's true that God does favor and bless Christians who are obedient to Him and faithful to Him, and who pursue His righteousness and do what pleases Him, over Christians who don't, but no Christian 'deserves' a spiritual gift because of his or her own merit independent of God's grace (apart from which we are and can do nothing), and the distribution of spiritual gifts has much more to do with God's will than it has anything to do with the worthiness of the individuals He gifts.
God chooses imperfect vessels to work through; and prophets, and Christians with other gifts, sin and have character flaws just like all Christians do. So we kind of have to look past some of the imperfections we may perceive in the minister (whether true or imagined), either in attitude or in beliefs, and pay attention to Jesus Christ more than the instrument He is working through. Because we're inevitably going to hold people with spiritual gifts to a higher standard than we hold non-gifted Christians to (which isn't entirely unjustified, because God does require more of those to whom He has given more, whether they asked for what He gave them or not, and we should hold those who minister to us in Jesus' name to a high standard, just as He does), and be more scrutinous of their ways. But we should remember that all Christians are vessels of clay, and that God chooses to work through imperfect vessels in order to display His own power, for His own glory, because the slave is unworthy. (The one who thinks he or she is worthy needs a reality check and a change of heart from his or her Master.)
Bearing this in mind, we can receive with greater ease and peace whatever God may desire to give us through a gifted brother or sister, without showing undue contempt for the minister or messenger, or dismissing the message or the wisdom from God, because we don't consider the instrument used to be worthy of God's gift or favor---because he or she isn't eloquent or highly educated, or is a bit proud, or is awkward or a bit eccentric, or is a little too worldly in our opinion, or uses a Bible translation we don't approve of, or holds to some beliefs that we ourselves don't share.
Yes, judge a tree by its fruit, but also humbly remember that Jesus Christ works through imperfect Christians---which all of us are, and that one's having a spiritual gift of some kind does not make that person more spiritually mature than other Christians. Spiritual gifts do not make Christians more Christlike, but the renewing of their minds by God as they keep His word does. (The brothers in the church in Corinth had every spiritual gift among them (1 Corinthians 1:4-7), but how much like Christ were they in their thinking and behavior? (1 Corinthians 3:1-3))
Let us rejoice with those who have the gifts, and praise God for them, instead of having evil thoughts in our hearts towards them. We are all members of the same family, and we all stand to benefit from those things that our Father has given those whom He has gifted variously to share and to do. We are not in competition with one another. All are one, and Christ is all things in all of us.
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Post by John on Jul 4, 2018 10:58:11 GMT -5
Doctrinal disagreements are a huge obstacle for many things God wants to do in people's lives. It is heartbreaking to watch a hurting person be told that Jesus cannot "magically" solve his problems. As the old song says, what needless pain we bear. Yes, we must be careful, but God forbid we take it too far and find ourselves rebuking real miracles. It is very dangerous to attack the hand of God. I believe this is one of the reasons for the great falling away at the end of time. Too many shepherds and teachers are calling God a liar, letting the sheep stay trapped in painful bondage, and turning their weapons against prophetic intervention. But, having said all that, I've observed a few others reasons for rejection of prophecy... 1) We have a low opinion of the person who brought the message. A few verses up in that same chapter, Paul tells us to "esteem very highly" the brethren who labor among us. It takes humility to accept a prophetic word from someone we think is beneath us. Let us never think we are so spiritually advanced that no one else is qualified to minister to us. 2) The prophecy opposes what we thought God was doing in a situation. I've seen many, many people pray in direct opposition to God's will. That's actually a big source of unnecessary spiritual warfare. When two strong-willed people collide, both convinced they know God's plan, praying and teaching against each other to control the outcome of a situation, someone is going to get burned. 3) When God reveals His plan, we lose the right to pray for whatever we want. Now it's time to fall in line and pray in agreement. 4) The prophecy might challenge us to change our lifestyle, rethink our doctrine, or repent of something we didn't know was sin.
The people told Jeremiah they would do whatever the Lord told them to do, but they had their own idea what God's will was. When they head the Word of the Lord, and saw it went against their preconceived ideas, they rejected it, and turned on Jeremiah. We must be willing to consider we can be wrong.
I agree 100 percent that once we have God's will, we need to accept it and follow it. That isn't always easy to do. His will isn't always in agreement with out flesh.
Yes, change is not easy for some of us. I am the type that doesn't like change. I am pretty set in my ways, but I do know that if I was shown, and knew for a fact, something I have been holding to is wrong, I would change. I have had to do it before on some fairly major things. Still, that is not easy. When it comes to things we like, and God is saying it is wrong, the flesh will fight us, as will the devil, trying to convince us that what we thought we heard couldn't be so.
All excellent points Candance.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 4, 2018 11:49:47 GMT -5
Those are all excellent points. Sister Lights also mentioned how that God uses imperfect vessels. Certainly, the Apostles were not without flaws, but they were chosen by God. The same thing applies to prophets. God can use anyone to deliver a message. We need to look at the message and judge it by the Word. We shouldn't discard it because we can see that the individual that gave it isn't without fault, or because we dislike the messenger.
The people told Jeremiah they would do whatever the Lord told them to do, but they had their own idea what God's will was. When they head the Word of the Lord, and saw it went against their preconceived ideas, they rejected it, and turned on Jeremiah. We must be willing to consider we can be wrong.
I agree 100 percent that once we have God's will, we need to accept it and follow it. That isn't always easy to do. His will isn't always in agreement with out flesh.
Yes, change is not easy for some of us. I am the type that doesn't like change. I am pretty set in my ways, but I do know that if I was shown, and knew for a fact, something I have been holding to is wrong, I would change. I have had to do it before on some fairly major things. Still, that is not easy. When it comes to things we like, and God is saying it is wrong, the flesh will fight us, as will the devil, trying to convince us that what we thought we heard couldn't be so.
All excellent points Candance.
"Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor,
sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work." - 2 Timothy 2:21
Otherwise the person would be seen in a negative way and do not possess the required credibility, knowledge or faith.
Like sending someone for a task that requires a lot of sensibility and emotional knowledge and the person sent is not able to demonstrate love very well.
"Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us..." - Romans 12:6
"But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift." - Ephesians 4:7
"And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one,
to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey." - Matthew 25:15
Anyway, I believe we are to analyze the message given and its fruits not the person's appearance, status, or anything.
But the target person may not know of this and a certain type of person which fulfills the criteria must be sent in order to have best results.
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Post by John on Jul 4, 2018 18:42:55 GMT -5
I am just coming from the standpoint that truth is truth, no matter who brings it. If an alcoholic brings the message that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, that doesn't cease to be true because the messenger is in sin.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jul 4, 2018 20:22:12 GMT -5
Isa 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
Isa 6:6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
Isa 6:7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
A man of unclean lips made into a mouth piece Of The Lord.
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Post by John on Jul 5, 2018 6:49:43 GMT -5
There is a Bible teacher that was popular back in the 70s that came under attack in recent days. I had never heard of the man till the scandal arose. I was hearing he was a legalist and false teacher. People were claiming he taught all kinds of things that were off the wall, so I went to his web-site and looked into it. Most of what they were claiming were not his teachings at all, and he was as sound as most teachers. He wasn't perfect, but who is? Those desiring to bring him down trotted out a bunch of witnesses, who strangely enough, were bring allegations of things that happened well over a decade ago, and they had never said anything before. He was forced to step down, and now they claim they were vindicated, as this proves his guilt and that his teachings are false. It does no such thing. There was no trial. There was no proof of wrong doing. Even if he did things that were not right, it has nothing to do with his teachings. Everything needs to be examined in light of the Bible. It is also possible to preach the true Word of God and be a castaway. Paul warned about that.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 5, 2018 7:10:25 GMT -5
Most of what they were claiming were not his teachings at all, and he was as sound as most teachers. He wasn't perfect, but who is?
If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call
those of his household!" - Matthew 10:25
"For if they do these things in the green wood, what will be done in the dry?" - Luke 23:31
A thing that caught my attention is the following:
While some people preach mercy and all, they fail to be merciful to those who are supposedly their enemies.
And as a result just waits for a minor defect to start judging and condemning and say: "I told you they preach heresy and they are not from God".
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." - John 7:24
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Post by frienduff on Jul 5, 2018 8:04:42 GMT -5
The thing is , IF any true man of God is leading a church , and is found in error , let those who are spiritual correct such a one .
If they hear and repent amen . IF they do not hear and will not turn from the error of their ways . They have no business leading the flock .
They must step down and be separated out , TILL they do repent .
The same with anyone who is in error . We correct them, WITH the desire to protect the flock , AND in hopes that one will repent .
Their is a difference and this is easily seen, their is a difference between one who may either not yet be well learned and has errors and mindsets
that must be corrected and guided , versus a false one , or one who is in willfull sin and refuses to hear .
With any error of sin or teaching, IT MUST be corrected . No teacher can stand over a church, WHO TRULY is not well grounded in the HOLY SCRIPS
and has had a good amount of time IN the LORD , having his senses truly excercised to discern between good and evil .
The major problem began long ago . WHEN men got wise in their own conceits , and chose the wisdom of this world as their guide . ALL wrongs things
proceed from that wisdom . Also no man should lead the church , BEING a novice. And again we see this as many young men who felt they had a call
GOT UP and started in that call, WHEN THEY WERE NO WHERE NEAR READY TO DO SO. Pride kills .
Any one who is to be a teacher, bishop , deacon , leader , MUST , MUST have been well grounded in the scrips and must be blameless, tested
before even being put into such a position. IF NOT , error keeps begetting error and churches keep getting worse and worse .
WE really need the one true pattern BACK and that we stand ONLY on the original foundation .
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